unmountable HDD partition. HELP!

[daryl2158]

Hey all, I just downloaded Knoppix to recover whatever files from my HDD after Windows XP crashed on me. Im currently running Knoppix from a CD and am really the n00b at it. Ok, because I own a HP Pavilion PC, my HDD is partitioned. One for Windows and HP stuff, and the other for user files. I can currently access the HP partition just fine, but when i try to open the other partition, (hda2), it gives me the following error msg:

Could not mount device.
The reported error was:
mount: I could not determine the filesystem type, and none was specified.

I got really confused browsing the forums on similar issues. I THINK the filesystem is an NTFS and all I really want to do is to salvage and burn my files off it. Pls reply soon! thanks.

[Harry Kuhman]

I'm glad you added the HELP to the subject, without it I would likely have thought that you just wanted to tell us a story. And that you added Please reply soon, otherwise I would have written my reply and saved it a few weeks.

Sarcasm aside, it sounds like that second partition may be severly damaged. Normally Knoppix would mount it the same way that you mount the other one. But there are several unanswered questions in my mind about this system:

• What happens when you run Windows? It sounds like the first partition may be OK. Will Windows boot but just not see the second partition? If so, have you looked at the partition table at all from Windows? What have you done and what does it tell you?
  
  Did your HP system come with two partitions, or did you create the second partition yourself? If you created it yourself, can you tell us what steps you too to make it? My HP notebook came with XP installed on a lone large patrtition, I had to repartition to create two partitions like you have.
  
  Do you know what type of partition the second partition is? I'm guessing both partitions are NTFS, but that's far from certain (I made my second one FAT32 so that Knoppix could write to it).
  
  You say that the second partition is hda2. Is that a name showing up on a desktop icon? Are you opening the partitions with the desktop icons, or are you using the mount command? This is extremely important because normally the first partition would be hda1, but the second one would be hda5, a logical partition inside the extended partition hda2. Knoppix will not normally show you an icon for an extended partition and you can't mount one. There are ways to create multiple NTFS partitions (or an NTFS and a FAT) on a hard drive without using Logical drives or extended partitions. But it's not usually done so I'm wondering if you're wrong about the partition name. Do you know about extended partitions and logical drives? And do you know what should be out on that disk?

After we have the above information, we can offer more help (if it's still needed). Knoppix does have a program "gpart" or "gparted" (I forget which is on the disc) that will examone a disk where the partition table has been destroyed and try to determine what the missing partition is and recreate it for you. But I'm not suggesting that you use it yet; it's a rather last ditch thing to do, and it would be much safer if you could respond to the above first and let one of us guide you (and maybe even get a second opnion before doing anything that sounds risky).

[daryl2158]

Firstly, thanks alot for replying so quickly.

I cannot run Windows at all. It has a missing file on the HDD so I can't boot at all.

The HP system came with 2 partitions, with the first being write protected (so they claim) for copying to the user partition when you want to do a destructive system recovery. Meaning the 1st partition contains Windows and all factory-shipped apps so it can just copy over.

I'm not sure what file system the second partition is. How do I check?

When I mouse-over the second partition icon on the desktop the name indicated is: hda2.
Im opening the partition with the desktop icon (i already stated that im a n00b at this...lol, so no commands done)

Qo you know about extended partitions and logical drives? And do you know what should be out on that disk?
A: Nope. :P

Thnx.

[Harry Kuhman]

The HP system came with 2 partitions, with the first being write protected (so they claim) for copying to the user partition when you want to do a destructive system recovery. Meaning the 1st partition contains Windows and all factory-shipped apps so it can just copy over.

OK, I was under the impression that you first partition had the copy of windows that you were running and that the econd was only "user data". But it now sounds like the first is a virgin backup of the used space on the second partition. What a strange thing for a manufacturer to admit, that Windows is so unreliabe that you need to have a backup copy that you can use to overwrite your live partition with! And that they are quite willing to waste that much of your hard drive space to do it. It's not that many of us here don't already know that Windows is that unreliable, bt we don't often se such open admissions.

Based on this information, I do think that both partitions are real physical partitions. HP is just playing creative games with the partition table. They may even hide the hda partition from you in windows. (You are sure, by the way, that hda1 is the virgin backup and hda2 is the live data, are you not? Is there any chance that the files you want are really on hda1 and the virgin backup is hda2?) Do not do this, but just what does HP tell you to do to make this magic recovery copy happen?

I also expect that both partitions, and particularly the one that has been lost, are NTFS partitions. This is the official default to use for XP and I can't imagine HP not doing so for the average user.

I'm sorry, it's getting very late here, and I have some things that I need to do before morning, so I just can't teach you and write up detailed information on partitioning a hard drive right now. You may want to start at Google and learn some things about how Windows partitions hard disks, the maximum of 4 entries in the partition table that define the partitions, extended partitions, and the rest. A lot of searching and reading is called for if you are going to recover that data safely. You might also want to determine if Knoppix includes gpart or gparted and read the man page for whichever it is and see if that makes sense to you. Hopefully others will join into this discussion, if not perhaps I can help again in 12 to 15 hours, but I have to stop now.

[daryl2158]

Yep, both partitions contain Windows, but the first is supposed to be locked away, hidden and write-protected although I can edit it with Knoppix. They just overwrite ur user partition's Windows with the hidden partition's if u screw up. Ur right, they hide it in Windows. And it tks up about 4 GB. hda2 has the rest of my disk space, so that must be the user partition. Moreover when i open hda1 it contains the hp stuff. HP makes me tap the F10 key furiously during boot up to bring me to the recovery console in which i can select a non-destructive recovery (reinstall windows but data is still there) or a destructive one (self-explanatory). However the first option DISAPPEARED for some reason. I can't call HP today to check with them since its Sunday, so its a good thing ur replying tomorrow aniwae.

I remember seeing somewhere that the user partition is NTFS too.

Quote: You might also want to determine if Knoppix includes gpart or gparted and read the man page for whichever it is and see if that makes sense to you.
Nope. that doesnt make sense to me :P Thnx 4 being so patient aniwae.

Quote: Hopefully others will join into this discussion
My sentiments exactly. The other threads show discussions with the same error, but they all have 2 hard disks to play around with or some other configuration. Thus, I think my problem is quite unique and might help others with the same problem as not most people have 2 hard disks.

[daryl2158]

whew, I can't find gparted anywhere. Only qtparted. started that up, and analysed hda1 and hda 2. Here r the results:

Number: (Weird windows logo here) 01 Partition: /UNIONFS/dev/hda1 Type: FAT32 Status: Blank Size: 4.01GB Used Space: 3.56 GB Start: 0.03 MB End: 4.01 GB Label: blank

Number: (no logo here) 02 Partition: /UNIONFS/dev/hda2 Type: unknow Status: Active Size: 34.15GB Used Space: N/A (?!!?WTF?!) Start: 4.01 GB End: 38.16GB Label: blank

ok, as u can see im panicking after i read the used space part for hda 2.

Conclusions:

partition 1 is fat32, and is the hp recovery partition.
partition 2 is of unknown type, highly likely NTFS
partition 2 is active, while part 1 isnt.
hopefully its wrong that part 2 has no used space

[Harry Kuhman]

OK, I'm back. No one else seems to be fool enough to join in this discussion. From your above output it looks like something has clobbered your partition table but good.

The good news is that Windows does this all of the time! I doubt if you even did anything in Windows to cause it (but just what wrer you doing in Windows when it happened?). This is good news because your not the first person facing this and the gpart/gparted tools were created to help here.

I don't know off the top of my head which is in Knoppix or how to step you through them. I'll go check a copy of Knoppix a little later and post back. It might help us being onthe same page if I knew what version of Knoppix that you wre running, that way I ccould boot the same version and tell you exactly where to look and for what.

We are hoping, of course, that it is only the partition table that is damaged and that it can be repaired and you will have access to your partition again and the data will still be there. With Windows there is no assurance of this.

[Harry Kuhman]

.... Knoppix does have a program "gpart" or "gparted" (I forget which is on the disc)....

... You might also want to determine if Knoppix includes gpart or gparted and read the man page for whichever it is ....

whew, I can't find gparted anywhere. Only qtparted. ...

OK, here's were we stand:
I looked at the 3.8.1 CD (didn't know if you were using the CD or DVD and didn't want to use the DVD because it has a lot more software that you wouldn't have if you use the CD). gpart is there (not gparted) and there is a man page entry for it. A "man" page is a manual page, documentation on how to use any of the programs or commands that come with Linux. To see the documentation for gpart, open a shell (or terminal window) and type man gpart at the prompt. It will show you the first lines of the document. You can move up and down in the document to read it all, type Q to exit when done. Read and understand this docement before going any further.

OK, now for a little bit of warning. It's a real shame that HP did the software backup this way. I expect that you no longer have the option to safely restore your software because the software running can't see the second partition any longer and isn't written to recover it itself. What strikes me as far worse is that HP chose to do things this complex and space wasteful way rather than spend literally just a few cents on a hard copy backup of all the original software that you paid for. This is awful, since if your hard disk had died completely (and many do), you would have no backup of your purchased software at all!

What could make this a problem in this case is that HP played some games with the partition table to "hide" that first partition, and gpart might try to correct that too. Best case, it doesn't want to correct it, or it suggests a correction but gives you a chance to not do it. Worst case, it makes some changes that confuse your recovery software, makes both partitions available from Windows, or even causes the backup copy to became the boot copy. I know by the time you ead this it is Monday there and you may already be calling HP, but unless your support there is much better than ours in the U.S they will not have a clue and will tell you that all you can do is a fresh new install that destroys your data. That is not true, but it may take some work and skill to get everything back the way that you want it.

At this point, if you have read and understoof the gpart man page, I think you are ready to run gpart. Be very sure that you use the backup option to make a copy of the current mbr, you may need it to put back the first partition the way HP originally had it. And understand that gpart is a powerful and somewhat dangerous program, after all it is about to change the very core definition of all that is on your disk drive. For that reason a normal user account can not run it. You will have to become super user by typing su at a command prompt, or perfix the gpart command with sudo (as in sudo gpart) at the prompt. I'm not going to try to write a whole gpart manual here, so I leave it to you to read the man page and to google for gpart and read as much as you need to feel comfrtable with it and select the right switches. I think that's a better choice than giving you a few switches to run without your knowing the software.

Good luck, let us know what happens.

[daryl2158]

Well, I downloaded Knoppix off Bittorrent and I don't have a DVD burner so its a CD. still no gpart anywhere.

Yea, HP wants to try and discourage piracy so it didnt give me the backup in CD format. They just bring along a hard drive containing their stuff and connect it to mine and download it if my drive totally dies (it did once). and then charge me for that.

can i like download gpart or anything? however i have almost no useable disk space and have to use the temp. folder and everything disappears upon reboot.

thanks. gonna call hp now. cant find the number though. I'll make sure they tell me something useful.

[Harry Kuhman]

Well, I downloaded Knoppix off Bittorrent and I don't have a DVD burner so its a CD. still no gpart anywhere.

It is there. Open a terminal, a shell prompt, a command line prompt or whatever you want to call it. Type man gpart. You'll see.

Yea, HP wants to try and discourage piracy so it didnt give me the backup in CD format. They just bring along a hard drive containing their stuff and connect it to mine and download it if my drive totally dies (it did once). and then charge me for that.

It's one thing to want to discourage piracy, it's quite a different one to not give you a copy of the stuf that they have sold you. And they do pay a license fee for every copy of Windows, so you really have bought it when you bought the computer. It's not like they even own Windows or likely any of the other software they sold you. It's find to discourage piracy, but not at the honest interest of their own customers. The reason they do this is not to fight piracy, no matter what they say.

can i like download gpart or anything? however i have almost no useable disk space and have to use the temp. folder and everything disappears upon reboot.

thanks. gonna call hp now. cant find the number though. I'll make sure they tell me something useful.

I'm 100% certain that it is there and you are mistaken that it is not. It has been in ever version of Knopix I've seen, and that'splenty. I'm less sure that it will resolve your problem, but there is a good chance that it will.