win partition issue

**Harry Kuhman** · 10-15-2005, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by ckamin

Some systems are sensitive to drive jumper settings. There are many that will NOT accept anything but the "Cable Select" option

I know from previous posts that you're a big user of the CS option, but I have to take exception to this statement. I know of no system at all that needs to use CD and the drives cannot be jumper master and slave and work properly. And I know of no reason at all that this could be the case. The CS setting only changes the master/slave setting based on the cable and the drive position on same, and all drives have jumper positions that will force master or force slave. This really seems like F.U.D. to me, can you offer any logical reason why you think master/slave setting would not work and CS would be needed?

Actually, I would think that there might be a case where CS will not work and the jumpers would be needed, but not the other way around. I'm thinking of those pain-in-the-ass Western Digital drives that have a jumper setting for master drive in a master/slave pair and a different setting for master when there is only one drive. To my understanding there is no provision on CS cable systems to accomidate this (I could be wrong here since I have never found a good discussion of how and why WD treats these two conditions differently, although I know from experience that the drives do need to be jumpered differently for each case and if you remove the slave drive you need to rejumper the master).

Anyway, before people started reading you post and believing they needed to change their IDE cables out and rejumper all of their drives, I wanted to post that your view is not universally shared and is not born out by my experience.

**OErjan** · 10-15-2005, 09:41 PM

i am STRONGLY against CS, it has been the source of VAST amount of troubles hat i have had to deal with.
and i have not EVER come across a setup where it has been REQUIRED, rather the opocite, where it has not worked at all.
especialy in XP and ME

**Harry Kuhman** · 10-15-2005, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by OErjan

i am STRONGLY against CS, it has been the source of VAST amount of troubles hat i have had to deal with.
and i have not EVER come across a setup where it has been REQUIRED, rather the opocite, where it has not worked at all.
especialy in XP and ME

I agree woith you, at least to a point. I have never seen a case where it would be required and it can create a lot of problems, particularly if left in the hands of a non-technical user. However, there is no good technical reason why it would fail especialy in XP and ME. It's a very operating system independent thing; it just makes the drives master or slave based on the cable and not on the jumpers being in the master / slave positions. But users who are not aware of all the issues could cause unexpected problems if they ever have to change or move drives or replace a cable. If a user has the background to use it properly and wants to use cable select, that's fine. But I think advising other (potentially noob) users that they might need to switch to cable select is very ill advised.

**OErjan** · 10-15-2005, 10:41 PM

I am well aware thet it should not matter, but it seems W2K and 98 work better with CS for some reason, atleast that has been my experience, no idea why.

**Harry Kuhman** · 10-15-2005, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by OErjan

i am STRONGLY against CS, ....and i have not EVER come across a setup where it has been REQUIRED, rather the opocite, where it has not worked at all.
especialy in XP and ME

Originally Posted by OErjan

I am well aware thet it should not matter, but it seems W2K and 98 work better with CS for some reason, atleast that has been my experience, no idea why.

I'm completely confused by these two posts. I know ckamin favors cable select, but in the first quote above you pretty emphatically say that you are against it and have never seen where it is needed, in the second you seem to say that it was needed in some case but you didn't determine why. I don't see how both of these can be accurate.

I do certainly understand that someone might deal with a particular case (particularly with the old style 40 wire CS IDE cables) where they could come across a situation that would be confusing and seem to need CS; and if CS were enabled it would take some care to switch things to master and slave jumpers properly. But getting in that situation and just leaving things as CS rather than resolving the problem and coming to an understanding of what the problem really was is far different than saying that only CS worked with that system. In fact, if the system had been jumper as master and slave and an inexperienced user tried to convert things to CS they would have at laset as many problems, likely more.

Perhaps adding to this confusion is that some old versions of Windows did seem to work with some improper drive configurations (two masters!) but Linux has always required these jumper settings to be correct.

**OErjan** · 10-16-2005, 11:11 AM

what i meant was that 98and 2k work better with CS but that says little. actualy just that it has worked (sort of) 5 times total 2 in a Win98 and 3 in W2K system with very diferent hardware.
I have yet to find a XP or ME system where things do not get slow and/or complicated beyond my abiliy WITH CS...

**JBN** · 10-17-2005, 09:36 AM

Hey guys

Guess what? IDE cable went south, I dont know why, I just replaced it with a new one and everything is ok now.

Thank you all for the input

**ckamin** · 10-17-2005, 11:31 PM

JBN Wrote:
Guess what? IDE cable went south, I dont know why, I just replaced it with a new one and everything is ok now.

JBN, Great job on the diagnosis AND thank you so much for posting back with your solution!

**ckamin** · 10-18-2005, 05:27 AM

Harry Kuhman Wrote:
"I know from previous posts that you're a big user of the CS option"

AND

Harry Kuhman Also Wrote:
"I know ckamin favors cable select"

Exactly WHAT previous "posts" might you be referring to? AND Exactly HOW can you claim to "know" what any of my preferences are?

Your statements are untrue and obvious fabrications. There is ONE post in this forum where I made a reference to jumper settings and that is provided for you VERBATIM here: "Sometimes drives and systems have certain needs regarding jumper settings and cables. IE cable select/80 pin IDE cable supporting cable select option. Master or slave may make a difference when installed with other drives on the same controller or cable." I provided this for you, since I actually LOOKED at my previous posts to verify my information before I would insert my foot in my mouth.

In the post that "I" have referred to above, one of my suggestions actually appeared to have resolved the issues that the posters were having. I believe I have even seen you post the solution I suggested a few times since then.

By what stretch of your imagination does my above post, or any one of my other posts, make ANY reference to support your statements? If there is any data or link to support your assertions, I would certainly like to see it!

Once you have established your credibility in this matter, then we can look at mine. I might just have hardware in hand, so be prepared. We seem to have been here before in a recent post or two, so this is a little deja vu. I had the data to put forth then and will do so again, if I decide it necessary, or even worth the trouble. I did not make it an issue of it before, but it appears it has become one!

**Harry Kuhman** · 10-18-2005, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by ckamin

Your statements are untrue and obvious fabrications.

Chill dude!

There had been previous discussion about cable select a few months ago and I though I remembered it being you who made the posts that advocated CS then, as well as giving some good information about it. If I'm wrong it is far from the worst mistake I've ever made and there was certainly no offence intended by it.