Evidence WinXP "security updates" may break Linux

[Harry Kuhman]

aay,

A quick check shows that all of the spare 10/100 cards I have do have a configuration eeprom. That includes a Linksys LNE100tx, a D-Link DFE-530TX, and even a Belkin (I think it's number is 10/100BT). I believe the NICs in my PC's also have them (except for an old ISA system with a 10 megabit inteface) and the one in my new HP notebook certainly does. The eeprom is generally a small 8 pin chip, placed on all of my 10/100 nics inside the bootrom socket footprint. If you can read the tiny number on an 8 pin chip on your card, a quick search for that number on Google should confirm that it is an eeprom. Yes, eeprom memory seems to be quite common.

A quick update: I just checked a 10 megabit PCI D-link card I have (DE-528CT) and it also has an EEPROM on it. Not in the bootrom footprint this time, but the part number is very clearly 93lc46, which is an eeprom. My expectation is that it will be hard to find a new nic without an eeprom; that might be an easier list to build!

It's pretty telling that my notebook NIC, which used to work fine for both Knoppix and WinXP, now fails for Knoppix, and I can confirm with mii-diag that some of the settings in the eeprom are simply illogical and will keep the card from functioning in it's current configuration. It's also pretty telling that Windows overrides the eeprom settings, while Linux takes the normal course of action and assumes that the card would be configured the way the manufacturer or owner wants it.

So far, this forum is the only place I'm seeing confirmation of this. That makes some sense, as Knoppix users are likely to be also booting Windows on the same system, while users with another Linux distro are less likely to be dual boot users (although it certainly does happen). Also, suspecting that Windows deliberately broke your hardware isn't the first thing one trying to get Linux networking going is likely to do. I would still like to get some additional feedback, and when I have enough information to consider this strong proof, take the information to other forums. I don't think we should take too long on this however, as equipment is being dammage every day. Much of this is equipment that likely would never run Linux, but now Bill Gates and his horde seem to have insured that.

Obviously, once the problem is fully understood, Linux driver writers can override the eeprom configuration just as Windows does. This is a pretty sad "fix" though, giving up the option to configure all of those NICs in eeprom just because someone deliberately screwed with them, but it may be needed. Unfortunately, this will take some time to happen, and in the meantime Microsoft (allegedly) will have made it much harder for people to switch to Linux.

[aay]

Good points. I'm hoping that others can corroborate and give additional information on this issue so that we can get further verification and then get it some broader publicity.

[deadmule]

Harry, ...thanks for starting the post.

I have a netgear fa311 with same DP83815 on it. I was succesfully using Knoppix 3.1 for a few weeks , in fact the first time I booted it found all my hardware and the adsl config tool work like a charm. I have XpPro on the system. As of the middle of last week I can no longer connect and have exhibited the exact symptoms described. I don't really recall updating security but I do have media player nine. I DL'd Knoppix 3.2 thinking something was just plain weird but alas 3.2 does the same as 3.1

I have another pci network card (hp) but haven't been able to get knoppix to "see" it. I have been unable to use your work around succesfully yet, still trying......

I had hoped to add to the solution but it only looks like I'll add a tale of woe.

DeadMule

[Ironi]

I have two working DP83815 cards (and only a broken installation of Windows 98 on the box along with Debian). If you guys can figure out what EEPROM settings you need, I'll gladly post them.

I'm interested in this XP "security update" issue too. I have XP on my desktop (SiS900 onboard NIC), but I've disabled auto-updates and haven't updated it.

[Sitting Bull]

Hi,

I'm using Win2000 ...
... and Knoppix directly from CdRom

I have an 3com Etherlink NIC with EEPROM and 3 ports (BNC UTP AUI)

However I think my problem is different : At Knoppix Boot the NIC is detected working but DHCP doesn't work. Probably because the wrong Port is used per default. When I remove after boot the NIC-driver and add it again by specifying the correct port-number, the network is working. Saving and using config from diskette doesn't help.

In my opinion, my problem isn't related to the two other postings

Kind regards

SB

[Junior G.]

Hello everyone,
This is very intriguing... (Warning: This is a very long post, so please grab a cuppa and bear with me!)
I had been using Debian successfully on one of my PCs until recently when I re-formatted my hard drive and installed Windows XP (The wife couldn't get used to Linux, so had to go back to Windows). My plan was to then install Debian on this PC as a Dual Boot. I found that after the Debian installation, I could never connect to the Internet. I asked several times on different forums if they knew why, but didn't get very far, so I decided to call it quit and try a different distribution. I then came accross Mandrake 9.0 and RedHat 8, but these distros had the same effect. For some reason, my NICs (the machine has to cards) stopped working out of a sudden. I never suspected it had something to do with my Windows XP installation because this was working like a charm - WinXP was connecting me to the Internet with no problem whatsoever.
As nothing I tried really worked and I was getting fed up of re-installing and re-configuring the cards, I made one last attempt to get the problem fixed before giving up. By chance I found a reference to Knoppix 3.2 on the web and decided to download this disk and give it a try as I liked the fact that I could boot it up without installing it on the hard drive (this would speed up my troubleshooting). So I burned my ISO image to disk and booted my PC up with this CD - about 2 minutes later I was presented with KDE. I was ready to go.
I configured my NICs using the Knoppix Tool under the KDE menu (KDE Menu/Knopix/Network & Internet/Network Card Configuration) and then tried connecting to the Internet - you should have seen my face when I saw www.google.com open up in Konqueror!!. I was very pleased. So my cards were working OK again (or where they?). I decided to make a permanent installation of Knoppix and was going to install it on the hard drive and Dual Boot Knoppix and WinXP on this PC. I started the installation on one of the Virtual Shells (Ctrl+Alt+F2) while I played around with the CD version. The installation completed smoothly (though a bit slow) and everything was set up OK (including my network cards).
I rebooted my PC after the installation and then went back to a Shell Screen and ran the command: "apt-get update" but guess what?!!, apt-get came back with an error that it could not resolve the address specified (an FTP address) to download the security updates. I just didn't know what to do - what has changed?! all I did was install (copy the contents of the CD to the hard disk) Knoppix to the Hard Disk. All settings are identical!!
So, I went back to the CD and voila!, I was connected - I tried again from the hard disk and noway Jose!!!!
So, I'm getting a bit suspicious that maybe it has something to do with the Windows XP installation, but don't want to say it yet, so what I did is take my son's PC which had Windows 98SE on it and re-format it. I then made a clean install of Knoppix to the hard drive and to my surprise I connected to the Internet successfully - OK, success but this is completely new hardware (different net cards) so I have to make sure that is not the cards that have the problem. I again clean up the hard drive and make a clean install of Windows XP (NO SECURITY UPDATES!!) I configure the NICs and connect to the Internet OK. I then boot up Knoppix from the CD and connect to the net OK as well (now the moment of truth!). I once again wipe out everything on the hard disk and install Knoppix to it. I configure my NICs and everything else and try the Internet = MICRO$OFT SUCKS!!!
I was unable to connect to the Internet anymore!!! (I was very pissed off!)
So, Micro$oft has done something to its software so that hardware configuration is changed (to its advantage!). I went to Google looking for information to see if someone else was having this problem and that's when I found this post! (I'm sorry I've posted such a long thread!, I just felt like I needed to document everything and let off some steam at the same time! - I just can't believe that Micro$oft can be so cruel!)

Anyway, the types of NICs on the PCs where I tried the installations are...
MY Computer:
Silicon Integrated Systems (SIS) 900-based 10/100 Ethernet (Integrated NIC)
3Com Comporation 3c905C-TX/TX-M (Tornado chip)

My son's Computer:
Lite-On Communications Inc. LNE100TX (Kingston Technologies - Tulip chip)
Digital Equipment Corporation DECchip 21140 - FasterNet (Kingston Technologies KNE100TX - Tulip chip)

OK guys, I hope this info is of help for you - again apologies for the long long post!

Regards,

Junior

[aay]

It's possible that you might be having the same problems that Harry has documented, but whe you say:

...then tried connecting to the Internet - you should have seen my face when I saw www.google.com open up in Konqueror!!.

and

So, I went back to the CD and voila!, I was connected - I tried again from the hard disk and noway Jose!!!!

This tends to make me think it's something else. As far as I know, Harry was unable to get his networking running by any meas (even with the cd) after making the XP security updates. So unless you're running a different version of Knoppix than Harry was using (I think there has been one update since he made his post) and that somehow fixes the problem (which I wouldn't think so), I think it has to be something else. I still wouldn't put it past MS though!!!

Hopefully some other people will be able to shed some light on this.

Don't feel bad at all for a long post.

Take care,

Adam

[Stephen]

So, I went back to the CD and voila!, I was connected - I tried again from the hard disk and noway Jose!!!!

This tends to make me think it's something else.
Adam

If you installed with using dhcp for the network card connection I'd check in /etc/network/interfaces and make sure the proper entry was created.

[Junior G.]

Hi Adam, Stephen,
I at first also though it was something else, but as I went along I found that it definetely has something to do with MS.
I found it strange as well that I could connect using the CD Version (I have Knoppix 3.2 - I see that Harry tried both Knoppix 3.1 and 3.2) but could not connect after installing to my Hard Disk. Something is written to the disk after the installation that the CD Version bypasses (At least on my PCs). Please remember that I had 2 working Linux PCs before installing Windows XP (even without Security Updates!). As soon as I installed Windows XP on these PCs, Linux will not connect to the Internet when installed on the Hard Disk - one thing I can do though, is browse my local LAN. I can see my PCs on the local LAN using Samba, but as soon as I try an external address, it just fails!.
I have checked my cards with "ifconfig -a" and I also see errors in the RX Packets and Carrier fields the same as Harry. I have downloaded the mii-diag utility from the Internet as suggested by Harry and will compile it and run it today to see if I can find something else out (I have tried the fix Harry suggests in his other Post but with no success)

I shall let you know the outcome!

Regards,

Junior

[Junior G.]

Hello guys,
Just to let you know that I have no doubt in my mind Micro$oft is out to kill Linux!! - I am posting this thread from my son's PC after changing the net cards on it with an old Samsung SC200TX card that I had lying around. This card uses the same Tulip architecture (DECchip 21140) found in the Kingston cards. This card has not seen MS software for a long time (I think I used it once with Windows NT) so it still holds the factory settings, but I'm sure that if I install Windows XP now and then try connecting with Linux, I would not be able to connect.
I am now trying to figure out how to re-configure my other NICs to their original settings (NICs using the DECchip 21140 chip do have EEPROM!)
I have ran the mii-diag utility, but have not figured out what everything means. I also downloaded a Tulip Diagnostic Tool which I can use to change some EEPROM settings but don't know how to use it yet.

If anyone has used mii-diag or tulip-diag and could tell me how to use it to retrieve my EEPROM configuration from my now working card so I can re-configure my non-working cards, I would very much appreciate it.

Thanks for listening!

Junior

PS: MS sucks!!