GRUB help 4 Windows, Knoppix, Mandriva & Ubuntu

[pranav]

I am new to Linux and hence i am trying out a lot of new distros

The major problem i face aftr every hd-install is the GRUB.

I want to know if a grub installation cd exists.. such that i put the cd in .. it detects all the differnt operating systems i have installed n installs grub in MBR. is there such a cd ? So far only the Ubuntu install cd has the capability of detecting all the other Operating systems n installing a correct GRUB. but reinstalling ubuntu after every distro is not a practical solution, especially whn configuring ubuntu involves dwlding over 50 mb of codecs, multimedia tools, plugins,etc

i am not talkin abt installin grub on a cd or a floppy. Google searches have always given me such results. I want to install grub from the cd n not the other way.

Please help.

[Harry Kuhman]

I don't kow the answer to your question and I'm far from a Grub expert. However, let me tell you how I get around this issue: I use a nice boot manager called XOSL. I install XOSL to a system on it's own small partition (just a few meg). Then when I install a Linux I tell Linux to install Grub (or Lilo or any Linux boot program) to it's own Linux partition. I just have XOSL boot the Linux partition, it starts the Linux boot process and everything runs smothly. Yes, I can boot without XOSL, but XOSL gives a clean graphical interface to the boot process, includes some extra tools like a partition manager, is extremely clean to reconfigure without exiting a config file, lets you boot from any partition on any hard drive (might have issues with SATA drives, I don't have SATA and so am not sure of that), and even lets you boot from floppy or optical drives without changing BIOS settings, and even allows CD booting on systems that don't boot from CD in the BIOS. It becomes trivial to add or remove Linux systems when you use XOSL as your boot manager, just always install the Linux boot loader to the Linux partition, and the only time that you should have to mess with a grub config file is if you rebuild the kernel. And, of course, XOSL can also boot FreeDOS, OS2, FreeBSD, those annoying operating systems from Microsoft and just about any other PC operating system too.

[pranav]

Thanks Harry.. My heart really reaches out to you for helping me.

What you do not realize is tht this is not the 1st time u have helped me. Ur posts elsewhr on the forum have helped me out in the last 1 month. I recognized u from ur display pic..

As I type the XOSL is getting downloaded...

Annoying XPerience, Knoppix, Mandriva & Ubuntu are already installed on my hd. the grubs from the 3 linux os were in the mbr... currently the ubuntu grub is in the MBR..

In fact annoying experience has crashed.. n needs to be reinstalled for the sake of others who use this PC. So i guess I can make the small partition you mentioned right now.. Now that there will be a new partition.. the numbers of the partions like hda1..hda5 will all increase by 1 ..

frm this point on.. what do i do ?

[Harry Kuhman]

frm this point on.. what do i do ?

Create a small partition. I usually make it 2 megs but that often upsizes to about 8 megs for disk geometry issues. Your results may vary. I have always made it a primary partition, but I see no reason why it can't be a logical drive on an extended partition (which would free up the limited resource of a primary partition). Some systems do have issues about how deep into the disk the BIOS can boot from, so it may be best to make sure the partoition starts somewhere in the first 1000 tracks on very large drives.

Follow the install instructions on the link that I gave you closely (but ignore any suggestion to install XOSL to the Windows partition). Basically this involves booting the computer with a DOS floppy and then swapping in the floppy with the XOSL install software but not the documentation, and this floppy must not be formatted as bootable and must not have bad sectors mapped out on it. The XOSL installer must be the only thing on it, as it needes the rest of the space to backup stuff (which makes life very easy later when some MS program over writes XOSL). Tell the installer "where to stick it", the patrtition that you have already created. XOSL does not create that partition.

Install what ever OSs that you want. I assume that you know enough about partitioning that I don't have to go in great detail here. If you are going for a record you will have to have more than 37 different bootable OSs on the same computer to break the old record. When installing a Linux system, never instal the Linux boot manager to the MBR, always put it in the Linux partition. That way when you install other Linux systems or remove old ones there will be no conflict.

When you boot, XOSL should give you a setup option, From there you can select any partition to boot from (hint, look for the new Linux partition and create a new Linux option giving it whatever name you want). There are lots of extra features here, like feeding keystrokes during the boot process, automatic booting of last used OS, countdown timers on booting and so on, I'm not going to write a full XOSL manual here.

Good Luck.

[ruymbeke]

Basically, any install of grub will do about the same as XOSL but you do not need an extra bootlader partition.
Harry gave you a very good advise which is to always install the new bootloader
in the partition boot sectors and NOT modify the mbr of the disk.
Then you can add the a new entry in the grub config file menu.lst
located in the partition of the grub which is called first at boot by the mbr.
Grub has a very nice feature which allow you to edit ("e" key), temporarely and
on the fly the menu.lst or just go into a console command prompt mode ("c" key).
From there you can try out various configurations and do not need to complete a boot
to only update the config file. From the command prompt, the "tab" key will do autocompletion
for both the path and the commands you can execute. You may have a check to the help or man pages.
The following menu.lst entry will allow you to boot from a partition bootlader
(your new linux install) which could be an other version of grub, lilo, or ...

title name_of_your_new_linux_install
rootnoverify (hd0,6)
chainloader +1
boot

hd0 means first disk recognized by the bios, 6 is hda7 and so on. Remember to use the tab key for autocompletion !
Grub will even tell you the partition type, and the tab key at the prompt will list you all the possible commands.
Grub has a lot of VERY powerfull commands and tools such as boot from floppy & hdd images,
alternate boots, time out, password, network boot (pxe), swap hdd, change active partition, ...
I personally like to use grldr which a port of grub to be used and started from the xp bootloader
using a boot.ini entry, and the dos port of grub, grub.exe to boot from my USB dongle keys, cf:
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...?p=93758#93758
Hope this helps,
Gilles

[pranav]

Thanks for the help..

I need some time now to crunch so much information.

Will read the XOSL manual ... and then go ahead... just one basic question.. what i downloaded is a zip file and not an iso...

so how do i make the bootable CD ?

[Harry Kuhman]

what i downloaded is a zip file and not an iso...

so how do i make the bootable CD ?

You do not make a bootable CD for XOSL. It is intended to be unzipped and the installer (not the documentation folder) put on a blank 1.44 meg floppy with no bad sectors. I don't know of a way to install if there is no floppy, as it wants to write back to the floppy during the install (something that would not happen if you made a bootable CD with a floppy image on it).

[Harry Kuhman]

Basically, any install of grub will do about the same as XOSL but you do not need an extra bootlader partition.

Gilles,
I didn't try to imply that Grub could not do this or that XOSL was needed. I just like XOSL because it is a clean GUI oriented front-end with a lot of nice features. It might be particularly welcome in this case where there are many different users on the same computer (no that I knew that when I first made the suggestion).

I even have one system that is currently booting with Grub, and I'm hoping that you can help me with that.

From the many helpful posts that I have seen you make about booting Knoppix images I suspect that you are one of our better Booting and Grub experts. My problem is that I installed XOSL on one system. Already had Windows there and even had Debian Sarge with Grub on the Linux partition. But when I replaced Sarge With Debian Etch, the installer flat out refused to install Grub or Lilo to the Linux partition; kept getting errors when I tried. I finally admitted defeat and let Grub instal to the MBR. Everything is working fine and I can boot Debian or Windows with Grub, but I would really like to get Grub on the Linux partition (hda4) and then put XOSL back on my MBR. Can you point me in the proper direction to figure out how I can get Grub properly set up on the Linux partition and able to boot the existing Linux kernel (I can take care of the XOSL reinstall if I can get Grub on the Linux partition properly configured).

[pranav]

I am in India...
So by the time you had posted it was late night here.. i just woke up.. will try the floppy method and let you know.. thank you so much for your help.. and as far as teh 37 OS in 1 PC record goes... I might actually try breaking it if i can figure our how to configure boot loading

[pranav]

Hey harry been a lil busy wid college work couldn't reply thru the week.

Now i have also installed SimplyMepis. Which also has a smooth GrubInstaller. Interestingly this has an unusual splash screen as well. All i did was added the entries from the /boot/grub/menu.lst files of the other distros into the menu.lst of Mepis. and everything is working fine

title
root
kernel
initrd

these were the entries dat mattered.

With some trial and error which included restarting the PC several times to verify, i am at peace. The only reason why i couldnt try the method you mentioned was coz i didnt have any floppy in working condition at hand and incidentally i came across mepis the next day.

I am learning a lot of things nonetheless, thank you so much for your time and patience.