View Poll Results: Should Knoppix only include free software ( e.g. no Adobe Acrobat, no Windows CUPS drivers, no non-f

Voters
36. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    11 30.56%
  • No

    25 69.44%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: Knoppix not free enough?

  1. #1
    Senior Member registered user
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    818

    Knoppix not free enough?

    Interesting discussion on the kde-promo list featuring all stars RMS and Ralf Nolden among others.

    http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-pr...q2/thread.html ( the thread is called Knoppix - KDE.. )

    actually it's quite a hot thread.

  2. #2
    Senior Member registered user
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,353
    I would be interested in seeing who else agrees with this statement from one of RMS' s posts on this subject.

    "It is a good thing to distribute KDE, but distributing copies of
    Knoppix is a bad thing."

  3. #3
    Senior Member registered user
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,353
    One more thing. From this post it looks like the KDE folks have built their own version of Knoppix that removes software with offending licenses. Will this KDE centric version of Knoppix take the place of what eadz has done with KnoppixKDE?

  4. #4
    Senior Member registered user
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    2,479
    Quote Originally Posted by aay
    I would be interested in seeing who else agrees with this statement from one of RMS' s posts on this subject.

    "It is a good thing to distribute KDE, but distributing copies of
    Knoppix is a bad thing."
    Even better:
    "Many programs give people the ability to copy non-free programs and
    install them. They can do it with Samba, they can do it with scp,
    they can do it with cp. It's a shame if they do, but if we are not
    involved, then it's not our shame."

    I wonder what he thinks about mounting a windows partition?

    Here's the packages that would not be installable if you went with RMS guidelines.
    Code:
    [12:46 AM Mon May 12: root @ /home/stephen]
    ># apt-cache dump | grep -B 2 'File:.*non-free' | grep '^Package'
    Package: picon-unknown
    Package: pdp11-unix-v5
    Package: pdp11-unix-v6
    Package: pdp11-unix-v7
    Package: snes9x-opengl
    Package: picon-misc
    Package: j2sdk1.4-demo
    Package: amiwm
    Package: gifsicle
    Package: tcltutor
    Package: xshodo
    Package: parmetis-dev
    Package: libsmapi2-dev
    Package: navigator-smotif-477
    Package: mpg123-oss-3dnow
    Package: parmetis-doc
    Package: amoeba-data
    Package: jdk1.1-dev
    Package: picon-news
    Package: pgp5i
    Package: jdk1.1-doc
    Package: ptex-jtex
    Package: unicorn
    Package: mmix-src
    Package: ckermit
    Package: weather
    Package: xpdf-korean
    Package: inform
    Package: s3270
    Package: tads2-dev
    Package: libsrgpg1
    Package: 3270-common
    Package: communicator-smotif-477
    Package: j2sdk1.3
    Package: j2sdk1.4
    Package: xtoolplaces
    Package: giflib3g-dev
    Package: unrar
    Package: xinvaders
    Package: lgrind
    Package: tracker
    Package: php4-dbase
    Package: rsynth
    Package: hevea-doc
    Package: ttf-kochi-gothic-naga10
    Package: xpdf-japanese
    Package: angband
    Package: ncompress
    Package: libforms0.88-bin
    Package: distributed-net-pproxy
    Package: gbdk-examples
    Package: freefont
    Package: ebook-dev-kde20
    Package: ucbmpeg
    Package: libforms0.88-dev
    Package: picon-usenix
    Package: communicator-spellchk-477
    Package: povray-doc
    Package: libapache-mod-fastcgi
    Package: pine-tracker
    Package: xanim
    Package: libmotif
    Package: gumshoe
    Package: eemu-server
    Package: gimp1.2-nonfree
    Package: grokking-the-gimp
    Package: xfonts-scalable-nonfree
    Package: netscape-base-477
    Package: mpg123-oss-i486
    Package: w3-recs-2002
    Package: w3-recs-2003
    Package: navigator-nethelp-477
    Package: mush
    Package: libsrgpg1-dev
    Package: xslideshow
    Package: libforms0.88
    Package: libforms0.89
    Package: jdk1.1-demo
    Package: mysql-doc
    Package: motif-doc
    Package: libgpcl0
    Package: libgpcl-dev
    Package: jdk1.1-src
    Package: cmap-adobe-gb1
    Package: xephem
    Package: libsmapi2
    Package: enamdict
    Package: xgobi-doc
    Package: sgb-doc
    Package: calctool
    Package: xsnow
    Package: mrouted
    Package: onlisp-ps
    Package: font3d
    Package: upx-nrv
    Package: clustalw
    Package: clustalx
    Package: ucspi-tcp-src
    Package: foiltex
    Package: snes9x-common
    Package: c3270
    Package: gap4-doc-dvi
    Package: wap-wml-tools
    Package: xfonts-naga10
    Package: sattrack
    Package: nntpcache-dev-doc
    Package: snes9x-x
    Package: rancid-cgi
    Package: whirlgif
    Package: bass
    Package: newsgate
    Package: jdk1.1-native-dev
    Package: maelstrom
    Package: netscape-smotif-477
    Package: tcl3270
    Package: xtrkcad
    Package: xmame-gl
    Package: rancid-installer
    Package: xmame-fx
    Package: csound-doc
    Package: jpeg2ps
    Package: cxhextris
    Package: http-analyze
    Package: povray-misc
    Package: xfractint
    Package: tads-dev
    Package: pips820-3300
    Package: tads3-dev
    Package: giflib-bin
    Package: x3270-htmldoc
    Package: nttcp
    Package: pine-docs
    Package: netperf
    Package: tads3-doc
    Package: gsfonts-other
    Package: gap4-doc-ps
    Package: dot-forward-src
    Package: diablo-common
    Package: dvi2tty
    Package: onlisp-pdf
    Package: conserver-client
    Package: webmin-telnet
    Package: cmap-adobe-cns1
    Package: mp3asm
    Package: j2sdk1.3-doc
    Package: gfont
    Package: onlisp-code
    Package: figfonts-cjk
    Package: unicorn-source
    Package: mpg123-esd
    Package: libmotif-dbg
    Package: cxterm-common
    Package: sgb-src
    Package: libtsp3
    Package: lmbench
    Package: fudgit
    Package: libmotif-dev
    Package: ggobi
    Package: ccf
    Package: amp
    Package: xpostitplus
    Package: cthugha
    Package: simh-unix-images
    Package: j2re1.3
    Package: j2re1.4
    Package: zangband
    Package: communicator-base-477
    Package: rsaref2
    Package: dgen
    Package: cxterm-big5
    Package: qmail-src
    Package: axe
    Package: doc-html-w3
    Package: spim
    Package: picon-domains
    Package: xearth
    Package: ssh2
    Package: distributed-net
    Package: ttf-larabie-deco
    Package: abuse-sfx
    Package: vrwave
    Package: sattrack-x11
    Package: dqs
    Package: gs-cjk-resource
    Package: mpg123-nas
    Package: tatctae
    Package: arabtex
    Package: j2sdk1.3-demo
    Package: pips800
    Package: xgobi
    Package: pips760
    Package: sharefont
    Package: pips770
    Package: libtsp3-dev
    Package: btoa
    Package: jad
    Package: edict-fpw
    Package: gimp1.3-nonfree
    Package: gliese
    Package: trn4
    Package: hwb
    Package: x3270
    Package: gap4-tdat
    Package: lha
    Package: xmess-x
    Package: ttf-xfree86-nonfree
    Package: cmap-adobe-korea1
    Package: musixtex
    Package: gbdk
    Package: mcvert
    Package: mocka
    Package: netscape-ja-resource-477
    Package: gap4-doc-html
    Package: j2sdk1.3-src
    Package: edict
    Package: os8
    Package: gsn-curses
    Package: pcx
    Package: shapetools-tutorial
    Package: sl-modem-source
    Package: snes9x-fx
    Package: pgp
    Package: epan
    Package: rar
    Package: sun-resolver
    Package: e100-source
    Package: cl-infix
    Package: communicator-nethelp-477
    Package: sgb
    Package: diablo
    Package: bsdgames-nonfree
    Package: xpdf-chinese-simplified
    Package: t1-xfree86-nonfree
    Package: netscape-java-477
    Package: rpl
    Package: yale
    Package: jdk1.1-native
    Package: xtrojka
    Package: gettyps
    Package: molphy
    Package: selfhtml
    Package: ttf-larabie-uncommon
    Package: tnt
    Package: eemu-client
    Package: navigator-base-477
    Package: trn
    Package: dxpc
    Package: tth
    Package: kanjidic
    Package: xacc-smotif
    Package: agrep
    Package: wip
    Package: irpas
    Package: j2sdk1.4-doc
    Package: ucbmpeg-play
    Package: vje-delta
    Package: fractxtra
    Package: so-far
    Package: satan
    Package: fastforward-src
    Package: ttf-larabie-straight
    Package: xmame
    Package: picon-weather
    Package: xmame-svga
    Package: diablo-readerd
    Package: povray
    Package: abc2mtex
    Package: zoo
    Package: jre1.1
    Package: pr3287
    Package: cxterm-gb
    Package: moria
    Package: xzx
    Package: mpg123
    Package: giflib3g
    Package: cmap-adobe-japan1
    Package: cmap-adobe-japan2
    Package: xpdf-chinese-traditional
    Package: hdlant
    Package: cxterm-ks
    Package: ldmud
    Package: ocaml-doc
    Package: rancid-core
    Package: simh-rsts-images
    Package: gap4-gdat
    Package: revtex
    Package: treetool
    Package: phylip
    Package: scilab
    Package: iozone3
    Package: doom-wad-shareware
    Package: dvipdfm-cjk-cmap
    Package: ocaml-book-en
    Package: gsn-jigsaw
    Package: qpage
    Package: ocaml-book-fr
    Package: libforms-doc
    Package: festvox-ellpc11k
    Package: serialmail-src
    Package: w3-recs
    Package: album
    Package: tads2
    Package: ezmlm-src
    Package: tads3
    Package: xmame-x
    Package: ines
    Package: figfonts
    Package: bulkmail
    Package: ttf-kochi-mincho-naga10
    Package: chntpw
    Package: opustex
    Package: netpbm-nonfree
    Package: cucipop
    Package: gbdk-dev
    Package: snes9x-svga
    Package: tadsr
    Package: rtlinux
    Package: speak-freely
    Package: conserver-server
    Package: wwwtable
    Package: mpi-specs
    Package: rutebook
    Package: wwwcount
    Package: rancid-util
    Package: prime-net
    Package: j2sdk1.4-src
    Package: motif-clients
    Package: graphviz
    Package: unarj
    Package: crafty
    Package: libmotif3
    Package: cedictb5
    Package: portsentry
    Package: lmbench-doc
    Package: nntpcache
    Package: its4
    Package: gs-aladdin
    Package: pgplot5
    Package: jdk1.1
    Package: netscape-ko-resource-477
    Package: xpacman
    Package: picon-users
    Package: floater
    Package: spectrum-roms
    Package: astrolog
    Package: cedictgb
    Package: inform-docs
    Package: musixtex-doc
    Package: cl-faq
    Package: cxterm-jis
    Package: festlex-oald

  5. #5
    Senior Member registered user
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    818
    Stephen are you sure?

    I remember far less packages.

    apt-get install vrms ( Virtual RMS ) to see what packages would be removed.

    And yes, the KDE Knoppix will take the place of Knoppix KDE I imagine.

  6. #6
    Senior Member registered user
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    2,479
    Quote Originally Posted by eadz
    Stephen are you sure?

    I remember far less packages.

    apt-get install vrms ( Virtual RMS ) to see what packages would be removed.
    Yes for what is installed on your machine but not what is installable from the non-free packages. The packages above are ones that would not be considered because they are non-free.

  7. #7
    Senior Member registered user
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    118
    Quote Originally Posted by aay
    I would be interested in seeing who else agrees with this statement from one of RMS' s posts on this subject.

    I guess I don't under stand what the debate is about or the definition of "free" v. "free."

    Whats wrong with the Acrobat reader and this long list of packages listed.

    This "attitude" problem is anoter HINDERANCE to Linux on the desktop in the home, especially, and at the office.

    "It is a good thing to distribute KDE, but distributing copies of
    Knoppix is a bad thing."


    Well for the last part I STONGLY DISAGREE. If they don't like Knoppix, dont use it!

  8. #8
    Member registered user
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    61

    the very anoying forums!

    I tried posting this last night, but the forum has a bug that doesn't let you login from posting a comment--It asks for your password,but tosses your comments! ouch!

    back on topic!

    If you read thru the posts, you'll see that the KDE people wanted a special version of "Knoppix KDE" to pass out at a show to prospective software writers to use KDE. They were upset to find that Knoppix had free but non-GNU stuff added to it.

    The backstory is that RMS spent so much time over the last years beating them into GPL goodness that they wanted a 100% OSS disc. Klaus' vison of Knoppix is to cram as much as he can on it for maximum utility, as long as the disc is freely copyable & redistributable for everyone who gets a disc. The fact that things like drivers, fonts, etc are free to download, but not "Open Source" isn't really an issue.

    The KDE people really wanted a "Knoppix" branded disc to show off.. because it's getting a lot of buzz lately [and rightfully so!] That's really the only thing that made a stink here. Whoever was putting it together didn't want to brand it "Knoppix" but strip out all the non-OSS stuff just to appease them. The little bits of drivers are what makes Knoppix "just work" so well versus being straight Debian. They didn't feel it would be in their interest [or ours either] to have a bunch of people with "crippled" discs out there a. blasting the forums to find out what's wrong, & b. giving "Knoppix" a bad name because stuff didn't work like it did for other people. Klaus can't support any forks--even to satisfy the GNU people. His work is GPL'd so they can use it, no hard feelings, but if they want to be that strict about the "free" stuff they'll have to go elsewhere and not call it "knoppix".

    My solution to the KDE people would be to use Morphix instead. Morphix gives credit to Knoppix and is a system to build discs rather than support for 1 specific disc. Then they could also create a seperate module with all the "missing" stuff rolled up for people to download seperately. While they were at it, they could have a set of modules made to cover the whole functions of offices, mail/web/DB servers, desktop, firewall...all that could be in seperate Morphix modules to show people how far GNU/Linux has really come.

  9. #9
    Senior Member registered user
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    154
    As someone new to this, and fully in favour of open source / free software, it does seem that folks do get a little ideological about it, and that stands in the way of broader acceptance of Linux.
    It is a royal pain in the arse to have to download a program and install it just to be able to watch DVDs, or read PDF files. No one new to the OS wants to be dealing with that kind of stuff. I can see why you might want a 'pure' version, but for most people out there there is room in the world for free and non-free software. I for one don't really, on a day to day basis, care whether Acrobat is 'free' or not. I guess if I sat down and thought about it I might, but it irritates me much more that the os I just installed can't read dvds without me having to download a patch and install it.

  10. #10
    Senior Member registered user
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    149
    I try to use to use free software applications in lieu of non-free software applications as much as is possible and palatable to my tastes.

    I was a happy Suse user for years and switched to Knoppix primarily to achieve this aim.

    Knoppix does a pretty good job of minimizing non-free packages.

    I ran "Virtual RMS" (apt-get -t unstable install vrms) and found only 8 items.
    All of which I never heard and I can uninstall without missing any of them.

    Steve

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. free knoppix cd
    By javiergarza4 in forum General Support
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-22-2004, 06:31 AM
  2. Get a Free Knoppix 3.4 CD...
    By zentu in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-14-2004, 11:22 PM
  3. Free Knoppix CD
    By nabetse in forum General Support
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-05-2004, 12:23 AM
  4. Free Knoppix CD
    By nabetse in forum General Support
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-04-2004, 07:08 PM
  5. Free Knoppix CD..............!
    By jlnunez in forum Customising & Remastering
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-13-2003, 04:24 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Dell Poweredge T430 8 Bay Server Dual Xeon E5-2698 V4 40 Cores  64GB DDR4 4x3Gb picture

Dell Poweredge T430 8 Bay Server Dual Xeon E5-2698 V4 40 Cores 64GB DDR4 4x3Gb

$1600.00



ORICO 5 Bay Raid Enclosure USB3.0 SATA External Hard Drive Enclosure Up to 80TB picture

ORICO 5 Bay Raid Enclosure USB3.0 SATA External Hard Drive Enclosure Up to 80TB

$122.39



ORICO 5 Bay Raid USB3.0 to SATA External Hard Drive Enclosure for 3.5'' HDD LOT picture

ORICO 5 Bay Raid USB3.0 to SATA External Hard Drive Enclosure for 3.5'' HDD LOT

$134.39



ACASIS 2.5/3.5 inch 2 Bay SATA USB 3.0 Hard Drive Disk HDD SSD Enclosure 4 RAID picture

ACASIS 2.5/3.5 inch 2 Bay SATA USB 3.0 Hard Drive Disk HDD SSD Enclosure 4 RAID

$54.27



Inspur LSI 9300-8i Raid Card 12Gbps HBA HDD Controller High Profile picture

Inspur LSI 9300-8i Raid Card 12Gbps HBA HDD Controller High Profile

$15.98



WD MyBook Duo Raid Enclosure, no Drives picture

WD MyBook Duo Raid Enclosure, no Drives

$50.00



Intel RES2SV240 24 Port RAID Expander picture

Intel RES2SV240 24 Port RAID Expander

$25.99



Inspur LSI YZCA-00424-101 Raid Card 12Gbps HBA Controller Low Profile 9300-8i IT picture

Inspur LSI YZCA-00424-101 Raid Card 12Gbps HBA Controller Low Profile 9300-8i IT

$15.98



Dell H2R6M PowerEdge PERC H700 6Gb/s 512MB SAS RAID Controller picture

Dell H2R6M PowerEdge PERC H700 6Gb/s 512MB SAS RAID Controller

$19.99



ORICO 2 Bay RAID Hard Drive Enclosure USB3.0 Type-B Fit 2.5

ORICO 2 Bay RAID Hard Drive Enclosure USB3.0 Type-B Fit 2.5" 3.5" SATA HDD 36TB

$87.99