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Thread: Apt-get / dpkg tutorial

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superstoned
    aay made small mistake: the command should be:
    Code:
    apt-get -t unstable install kopete
    (note the "install", thats the missing command apt-get complained about
    you could've found that out easy by reading the man about apt-get... THATS how you learn, not by asking us...

    how to get info about a command?
    Code:
    man (command)
    so
    Code:
    man apt-get
    gives manual of apt-get. you can use this for every command!


    RIGHT .... man pages are about the most useless form of documentation ever devised with their implied simplicity geared strictly for the guy who wrote the program, not for people who actually need real examples.

    One thing I have seen repeatedly, and Klaus is no exception - the one place I need to see real examples there are always shitty examples that follow some hypothetical, and when you try to duplicate the results, the wheels fall off.

    I follow examples here, like I want to install the infamous Gallery package, and when I follow *your* examples, like
    apt-get install gallery, the thing fails.

    Searching the miserable Deviant site for package information provides a package name, and it's way out of date.

    Trying to plug the shown package information into apt-get produces a myriad of failures.

    It's as much trouble as trying to use RedRag's RPM command.

    So I'd rather use the original package directly from the source - and install to the system using what the developer decided was best.





    good luck...

  2. #32
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    Re: wrong attitude

    Quote Originally Posted by turbine
    "THATS how you learn, not by asking us... "

    This is definitely the wrong attitude, held by many in the linux community, and a definite detrement to a more widespread acceptance and usage of linux and in this case knoppix. Don't forget a lot of people are looking in on these posts, people who are considering becoming knoppix users. We don't want to discourage them with bad manners, condescending attitudes, snobbish behaviour, etc. Always be as helpful and courteous as possible, otherwise remain silent.
    If I can just put in my two bit's worth....

    The man pages are a valuable technical resource, but are rather less useful for a noob who is not necessarily adjascent with all the terminology.

  3. #33
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    Re: wrong attitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Rink
    Quote Originally Posted by turbine
    "THATS how you learn, not by asking us... "

    This is definitely the wrong attitude, held by many in the linux community, and a definite detrement to a more widespread acceptance and usage of linux and in this case knoppix. Don't forget a lot of people are looking in on these posts, people who are considering becoming knoppix users. We don't want to discourage them with bad manners, condescending attitudes, snobbish behaviour, etc. Always be as helpful and courteous as possible, otherwise remain silent.
    If I can just put in my two bit's worth....

    The man pages are a valuable technical resource, but are rather less useful for a noob who is not necessarily adjascent with all the terminology.
    Such a condescending attitude ... "you think you know, but you have no idea". Don't make assumption about people.

    I've been using Linux since it was .96, was responsible for some major changes in the industry regarding databases back in 1998/99 which directly affected several large database companies.

    So I'm not a "noob" - I'm a seasoned veteran with Linux, and ex-submarine sailor and I have learned that man pages, VI and a lot of the crap you think makes you an "elite" sysadmin is really just hurdles to getting anything done.

    If it slows down my ability to get something donw, that's time wasted, and time wasted means money lost. So I have a busniess perspective, not an academic perspective.

    I appreciate the efforts of all open sores developers and will be contributing myself in the near future ... and there won't be any man pages.

  4. #34
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    >Such a condescending attitude .

    That wasn't my intention. Sorry.

    >So I'm not a "noob"

    No.

    I first started programming in FORTRAN in 1973, but am a relative newcomer to Linux, so I would consider myself as a 'noob'.

    I was merely making the point that the man pages are a technical reference and are rather less useful to anyone who might not have a full understanding of some of the technical terms.

    Sorry if I offended you.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rink
    >Such a condescending attitude .

    That wasn't my intention. Sorry.

    >So I'm not a "noob"

    No.

    I first started programming in FORTRAN in 1973, but am a relative newcomer to Linux, so I would consider myself as a 'noob'.

    I was merely making the point that the man pages are a technical reference and are rather less useful to anyone who might not have a full understanding of some of the technical terms.

    Sorry if I offended you.
    Apology accepted and Coolness has been achieved ... so we's both geezers ... LOL

    Seriously, I have always been annoyed by man pages that say everything but what you need, and I hit a point in my life where I can say without a doubt that man pages do indeed suck, regardless of your experience level.

    That and having to use "--help" on most programs. Why not just "-help" ...
    (don't answer that - it's rhetorical)


  6. #36
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    >annoyed by man pages that say everything but what you need

    Yes, that was entirely my point.

    They are not tutorials but dry-as-dust Technical referrences.

    If you already know what you want to do, then you can use them to check the syntax.

    If you need help on how to proceed to reach a certain objective, you would have to be VERY comfortable with the sort of Computerese used to make any headway.

    On the other hand, a forum like this with plenty of 'geezers' to lend a hand can be a lifesaver (it has been for me)

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rink
    >annoyed by man pages that say everything but what you need

    Yes, that was entirely my point.

    They are not tutorials but dry-as-dust Technical referrences.

    If you already know what you want to do, then you can use them to check the syntax.

    You hit the nail on the head there ... and people should probably be taught that out of the gate, but man pages are always mentored to be the os's "help" system, so it's got high expectations and minimal delivery.

    {quote]
    If you need help on how to proceed to reach a certain objective, you would have to be VERY comfortable with the sort of Computerese used to make any headway.

    On the other hand, a forum like this with plenty of 'geezers' to lend a hand can be a lifesaver (it has been for me)[/quote]

    We cannot assume age in help - I've been clobbered by 16 yr old rocket scientists and know a lot of old stupid people.

  8. #38
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    >We cannot assume age in help - I've been clobbered by 16 yr old rocket scientists and know a
    >lot of old stupid people.

    Fair enough. I was only using the term 'geezer' in the same context as you used it to me.

    We both have the experience to understand the frustrations of anyone trying to find their way through an environment where you do not have your hand held every step of the way.

    Other operating systems might think that they know the purpose of your journey before you set off, Linux makes no such assumptions - You have to set off in the direction you want to go; thereafter you need directions.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rink
    >We cannot assume age in help - I've been clobbered by 16 yr old rocket scientists and know a
    >lot of old stupid people.

    Fair enough. I was only using the term 'geezer' in the same context as you used it to me.

    We both have the experience to understand the frustrations of anyone trying to find their way through an environment where you do not have your hand held every step of the way.

    Other operating systems might think that they know the purpose of your journey before you set off, Linux makes no such assumptions - You have to set off in the direction you want to go; thereafter you need directions.

    Have you read my book?

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...&link_code=as1



    Ooops now you all know who I am ...

    -t-

  10. #40
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    Tom,

    Haven't read your book; looks interesting.

    Dave Coventry
    (Nothing Yet Published!)


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