If I can just put in my two bit's worth....Originally Posted by turbine
The man pages are a valuable technical resource, but are rather less useful for a noob who is not necessarily adjascent with all the terminology.
Originally Posted by Superstoned
If I can just put in my two bit's worth....Originally Posted by turbine
The man pages are a valuable technical resource, but are rather less useful for a noob who is not necessarily adjascent with all the terminology.
Such a condescending attitude ... "you think you know, but you have no idea". Don't make assumption about people.Originally Posted by Rink
I've been using Linux since it was .96, was responsible for some major changes in the industry regarding databases back in 1998/99 which directly affected several large database companies.
So I'm not a "noob" - I'm a seasoned veteran with Linux, and ex-submarine sailor and I have learned that man pages, VI and a lot of the crap you think makes you an "elite" sysadmin is really just hurdles to getting anything done.
If it slows down my ability to get something donw, that's time wasted, and time wasted means money lost. So I have a busniess perspective, not an academic perspective.
I appreciate the efforts of all open sores developers and will be contributing myself in the near future ... and there won't be any man pages.
>Such a condescending attitude .
That wasn't my intention. Sorry.
>So I'm not a "noob"
No.
I first started programming in FORTRAN in 1973, but am a relative newcomer to Linux, so I would consider myself as a 'noob'.
I was merely making the point that the man pages are a technical reference and are rather less useful to anyone who might not have a full understanding of some of the technical terms.
Sorry if I offended you.
Apology accepted and Coolness has been achieved ... so we's both geezers ... LOLOriginally Posted by Rink
Seriously, I have always been annoyed by man pages that say everything but what you need, and I hit a point in my life where I can say without a doubt that man pages do indeed suck, regardless of your experience level.
That and having to use "--help" on most programs. Why not just "-help" ...
(don't answer that - it's rhetorical)
>annoyed by man pages that say everything but what you need
Yes, that was entirely my point.
They are not tutorials but dry-as-dust Technical referrences.
If you already know what you want to do, then you can use them to check the syntax.
If you need help on how to proceed to reach a certain objective, you would have to be VERY comfortable with the sort of Computerese used to make any headway.
On the other hand, a forum like this with plenty of 'geezers' to lend a hand can be a lifesaver (it has been for me)
Originally Posted by Rink
You hit the nail on the head there ... and people should probably be taught that out of the gate, but man pages are always mentored to be the os's "help" system, so it's got high expectations and minimal delivery.
{quote]
If you need help on how to proceed to reach a certain objective, you would have to be VERY comfortable with the sort of Computerese used to make any headway.
On the other hand, a forum like this with plenty of 'geezers' to lend a hand can be a lifesaver (it has been for me)[/quote]
We cannot assume age in help - I've been clobbered by 16 yr old rocket scientists and know a lot of old stupid people.
>We cannot assume age in help - I've been clobbered by 16 yr old rocket scientists and know a
>lot of old stupid people.
Fair enough. I was only using the term 'geezer' in the same context as you used it to me.
We both have the experience to understand the frustrations of anyone trying to find their way through an environment where you do not have your hand held every step of the way.
Other operating systems might think that they know the purpose of your journey before you set off, Linux makes no such assumptions - You have to set off in the direction you want to go; thereafter you need directions.
Originally Posted by Rink
Have you read my book?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...&link_code=as1
Ooops now you all know who I am ...
-t-
Tom,
Haven't read your book; looks interesting.
Dave Coventry
(Nothing Yet Published!)
RARE-Vintage SEALED MayaQuest: The Mystery Trail PC 1997 Mayan Civilization
$9.00
Vintage Video-107AGP-3D Trident 9880 8MB AGP Video PC VGA Card
$24.99
IBM Vintage Flowcharting And Hipo Templates Set Of 2 W/ Case
$8.99
Vintage AOpen Beige Tower ATX Computer Case for Retro PC/Sleeper
$64.99
Vintage Inwin Q500 Full Height Beige ATX Computer Case #2 - For Retro PC/Sleeper
$159.99
Vintage Micron TransPort LT Laptop PIII 700MHz 320MB 12GB Win98 1.44MB Floppy
$150.00
Factory Sealed Vintage Microsoft IntelliMouse 3.0 PS/2
$29.95
S3 Virge/DG Video Card (Vintage)-Pre-Owned
$33.00
VTG 1983 Tandy 1000 Radio Shack Disk Cartridge System 10 meg Disk System 2-1025
$249.95
Vintage WINNOV WAVI-97 SOUND VIDEO CAPTURE CARD ISA
$169.99