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Thread: German keyboard persistent with HD install

  1. #1
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    German keyboard persistent with HD install

    I install knoppix-5.1 to my hard drive, but (in the GUI only) I get a German keyboard layout. lang=us, xkeyboard=us are options in my GRUB menu.lst file, XkbLayout="us" is in my xorg.conf file. Does anyone know if this is a bug or does debian use a different config file for X.

    Text mode logins present a US English keyboard.

    Running the live CD (or USB stick, in my case) present the US English keyboard in both GUI and text modes.

    This is a devilish bug since the "-" is replaced by the SS so I can't "su - root"; my root login is not accepted in the GUI(that's a mystery), so I can't easily change kdmrc; i.e., it's a mess!

    Running the live version is not an option since I can't get the persistent function to work to save changes between sessions and there are many software packages I wish to change.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    You sound more knowledgable that many new users here. So I sincerely ask, why would you choose to install Knoppix, known to have problems with hard disk installs, and then want to make many changes, rather than installing Debian and being able to install exactly what you want and avoid problems like this?
    ---
    Verifying of md5 checksum and burning a CD at slow speed are important.

  3. #3
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    German keyboard persistent with HD install

    Because, from my experience, debian is bear to install:
    * You simply cannot acquire ISOs easily for trial
    * I could never understand that jigdo thing
    * x config is quirky

    After saying all that, I see no need to be berated for wanting to try knoppix.

  4. #4
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    Re: German keyboard persistent with HD install

    Quote Originally Posted by joeymac
    Because, from my experience, debian is bear to install:
    * You simply cannot acquire ISOs easily for trial
    * I could never understand that jigdo thing
    * x config is quirky

    After saying all that, I see no need to be berated for wanting to try knoppix.
    Please understand I'm not trying to berate you for trying to install Knoppix, but Knoppix hard disk installs are very prone to problems. I was sincerely asking why install Knoppix over Debian, particularly when you seem to know you can install anything you want to the normal Debian install. This German thing is just the tip of the iceberg, there are many problems when you try to upgrade or install anything, caused by Knoppix being a mix of different Debian versions. And there are numerous reports of things that work fine from the live disc but fail after a hard disk install.

    That said, I've never used jugdo either. But the ISOs are easy to get. The ISOs for the various versions of Lenny (testing version) are here. This page also contains a link to the BitTorrent torrents for all of the full CDs and DVDs. But since all of Debian is so many CDs and you don't really need them if you have a high speed connection, I recommend getting either the Net-install ISO or the even smaller Business Card ISO and installing the rest across your Internet connection. If you want etch it's here.

    I'm not sure when you last tried to install Debian. It certainly was a bear to install when Knoppix first came out, which drove some of the effort for a Knoppix installer in spite of the issues with installing Knoppix. I just installed Lenny with the business card ISO a few weeks ago and it was extremely clean. I've installed etch (back when it was testing) and that went relatively clean too (I had a multi-boot problem trying to use XOSL and 4 partitions, etch refused to install it's boot loader to the Linux partition even though it should have been able to do so. I eventually let it install to the mbr and everything else went well. Note that a Knoppix install would not have avoided this problem). So if you have not done a Debian install recently thinkng that it is a problem prone install, I suggest you might want to look again. And Knoppix is certainly a problem prone hard disk install, as you are seeing.

    There are also some other Live CDs that avoid the mixed version problems of Knoppix and are said to install to hard disk better. But I see no advantage of using a Live CD whose main focus is hard disk install over just installing Debian, so I'm not going to recommend one of them.

  5. #5
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    German keyboard persistent with HD install

    To Harry Kuhlman:

    I apologize if I came off a bit snarky (I realized it later) in response to your post.

    Further explanation why HD install in important to me and useful to knoppix:
    1. The installer is included in the distribution which implies that the distributor wishes people would use it. If that assumption is correct, then that implies that any bugs or malfunction in the package should be reported back for consideration. My desire here is to first insure that it is a bug, either in knoppix or debian or to ascertain if it is merely an "operator error."
    2. My desire to remove/add packages is rooted in a wish to create a customized remaster of the distribution, since I am impressed with the speed of knoppix while running off a USB stick--it is undistinguishable from a HD.
    Yes, remastering can be done from the CD with loading it on the HD, but because of the extensive customizing I wish to do, I need to have synaptic available to manipulate the packages. It is impossible, unfortunately, to invoke an X window from the chroot'ed environment.

    Incidentally, in the last week I have sucessfully introduced two people to knoppix linux with the live USB stick--one is a Windows convert who wishes to HD install, but got tripped up on the keyboard thing.

    As for myself, I have been a Mandrake/Mandriva user since Mandrake 8.0 until about six months ago when I encountered a showstopping amarok bug that I was unable to resolve--it apparently is tied in with the migration of libtunepimp5--so, I switched to pclinuxOS. Now, alas, it has the same bug!

    I probably will try debian again, since the slackware based distributions that I recently tried are simply to tedious to configure. Another alternative is to downgrade to pclinuxOS-0.93

    Cheers, thanks for your input.

  6. #6
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    Re: German keyboard persistent with HD install

    Quote Originally Posted by joeymac
    1. The installer is included in the distribution which implies that the distributor wishes people would use it. If that assumption is correct,.....
    Well, I don't believe it is correct. Klaus was convinced to include the install script back in the dark ages when a Debian install involved recording all of the IRQ and I/O addresses of your hardware, starting the install, and then aborting and gathering more information when you found that you didn't have everything (like what flavor of mouse you had [did that MS indicate MicroSoft or the completely different Mouse Systems?] or some cryptic info on the video card). And the install still might not go smoothly. Even then I wasn't convinced it was a good idea, and the problems it causes persist still, although Debian has long been fixed. To support this, I point you to a post by Klaus Knopper himself, where, last year, he spoke of "Thinking about whether to completely remove the knoppix-installer, or take another week for rewriting it from scratch, or keep the current "works-occasionally" version." Apparently he ended up keeping what he called the works-occasionally version. I don't see that as a strong indication that he wants people to actually use it.

  7. #7
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    Re: German keyboard persistent with HD install

    I strongly concur that Debian is now a better hard drive install than Knoppix, but *if* you must...

    Quote Originally Posted by joeymac
    I install knoppix-5.1 to my hard drive, but (in the GUI only) I get a German keyboard layout. ...
    ... As normal User :-
    KMenu --> Regional & Accessibility --> Country/Region & Language and set up for your locale

    ...and for root / superuser
    http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26219

    Quote Originally Posted by joeymac
    This is a devilish bug since the "-" is replaced by the SS so I can't "su - root"; my root login is not accepted in the GUI(that's a mystery)...
    http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...577&highlight=

  8. #8
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    Thanks, JohnnyH

    The HD install is not my primary distribution right now; it is to serve as a supplement to my main distribution.

    The principal reason for installing, as I indicated above, is to customize and remaster the live CD.

    The locale setting is one of the first things I checked and it is set for USA (although I'm in Canada) and English. lang=us set that parameter correctly. It appears that kbd data is the only thing that's screwed up.

    I kept trying keys until I got enough information to "su - root" and edit the kdmrc file to allow root logins--and lo, the personalizer wizard CAME UP IN ENGLISH instead of German, and sure enough, the keyboard layout was US.

    So, although the basic problem remains, it is of little consequence for my purposes, since I can now log into the GUI as root and personalize my installation using synaptic. I hate mysteries, but this one can wait for another day.

    Is there a way I can mark this one solved?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeymac
    Is there a way I can mark this one solved?
    You could go back to your original post, edit it (look for the edit link on the right side), and add the word SOLVED at the end of the subject line. Most people don't bother to do that although a few do from time to time.

  10. #10
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    the question mark key holds the hyphen and the Y and Z keys are inverted. i don't know where the slash key is though, good luck on that.

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