Run Windows XP in a window - using VirtualBox

[joeschmoe40]

What does

sudo /etc/init.d/vboxdrv start
sudo /etc/init.d/vboxnet start

do? If it gives an error, it is not installed anymore. How or why that could happen... who knows. I'll wait for the results.

None of those files exists, either in the "hard disk installation" or from booting from the DVD.
When I do: ls -lsa /etc/init.d/v*

it lists 3 files, none of which are related to virtualbox.

However, I (finally) located the module (vboxdrv.ko), and manually insmod'd it, and now things seem to be working.

(Due to some other things, I didn't actually get as far as successfully booting a guest OS, but I'll test again later on a more stable system, and get back to you [as sister Sarah would say])

[johnrw]

Joe,

I decided to check a dvd... an my apologies... in Knoppix 5.3.1, with nothing added or upgraded...
there is a file in /etc/init.d/ named virtualbox-ose... but you should be able to ignore that. Instead...
in /etc/defaults/virtualbox-ose there is a show stopper...
LOAD_VBOXDRV_MODULE=0

What that appears to be is some sort of top down control mechanism... which is cool, as long as one doesn't forget to check that directory.
Changing it to =1 may be all that is needed.
Then, if after a reboot, lsmod doesn't show vboxdrv... loaded... then the line
sudo /etc/init.d/virtualbox-ose start should start it.

If it isn't started... and you want it loaded on bootup...
update-rc.d virtualbox-ose defaults 80 20
should take care of that.

Since I can't guess what you have... or what method of hd-install you used...
I guess now is where I put a plug in for Klaus's new 0wn installer.
I should probably put a post up concerning my observations... in using that to install Knoppix to a hard disk.
It has a high bar for system requirements:
1. swap partition must total over 1 GB
2. empty partition of around 20GB minimum(I think it was)

But it will install a full system if you choose the multiuser option.
Just don't think about using apt-get upgrade and then dist-upgrade afterwards.
My one attempt at that was not pretty in the end.
If you just want to have a system that runs with the reliability of Knoppix... in 45 minutes... no hassle no fuss like...
then that may be a sufficient option.

It does offer to modify a grub menu.lst file if it finds grub is installed... but misses my grub4dos menu.lst file... and offers to install grub!
So in that case I say do not do anything.. and look in the <where Knoppix was installed>/boot/grub/menu.lst for the boot options to use in my grub4dos menu.lst.

So... if you have a spare hard disk... you might wind up with a better installation of Knoppix using the new 0wn installer.
When ready to see what it looks like... open a console and type 0wn. There are 6 more files besides the /usr/sbin/0wn script to be found in /usr/share/0wn which to me was impressive. I couldn't wait to try it out... after I read it enough to know what it wanted and expected.

If you don't have enough swap space... to meet the script's demands... but feel you have enough... you can edit the /usr/share/0wn/0wn-common file and change
SWAP_NEEDED=$((1000*1024))
to:
SWAP_NEEDED=$((100*1024)) # 100MB (would not be enough but hey... it's your machine)

The other one...
SPACE_NEEDED is not as easy to fudge... for good reason... the Knoppix dvd has alot of files already... and a hd install is going to have to hold them in uncompressed form.

Maybe I'll add more to this later... on 0wn.

So there is my first stab at the 0wn installer do's and don'ts...
I would like to know and even have posted somewhere... the best way to do an
apt-get update
apt-get upgrade
from a 0wn installed Knoppix.

[joeschmoe40]

Joe,

I decided to check a dvd... an my apologies... in Knoppix 5.3.1, with nothing added or upgraded...
there is a file in /etc/init.d/ named virtualbox-ose... but you should be able to ignore that. Instead...
in /etc/defaults/virtualbox-ose there is a show stopper...
LOAD_VBOXDRV_MODULE=0

What that appears to be is some sort of top down control mechanism... which is cool, as long as one doesn't forget to check that directory.
Changing it to =1 may be all that is needed.
Then, if after a reboot, lsmod doesn't show vboxdrv... loaded... then the line
sudo /etc/init.d/virtualbox-ose start should start it.

If it isn't started... and you want it loaded on bootup...
update-rc.d virtualbox-ose defaults 80 20
should take care of that.

Yes, that file does exist and is, obviously, related to virtualbox. And I did try running it (with the start option).

Incidentally, I find it strange that you say "... but you can ignore that", then say that I should run (start) it.

However, two things led me to believe that it (/etc/inid.d/virtualbox-ose) wasn't directly relevent:
1) The comments in that file say that it is to load the virtualbox networking (i.e., just the networking, not the whole she-bang).
2) It ran fine - did not complain about the lack of the module being loaded. I.e., one would have expected it to say something like "Hey guy, the module isn't loaded (and won't be loaded), so starting this part of it (the networking) isn't likely to do you any good".

Since I can't guess what you have... or what method of hd-install you used...
I guess now is where I put a plug in for Klaus's new 0wn installer.
I should probably put a post up concerning my observations... in using that to install Knoppix to a hard disk.
It has a high bar for system requirements:
1. swap partition must total over 1 GB
2. empty partition of around 20GB minimum(I think it was)

That's about what I had on my sysem when I installed via "knx2hd". So, I'll give 0wn a try sometime.

BTW, re: your comments about "apt-get upgrade". Yes, I tried that once on a Knoppix HD install, and it totally screwed up everything. I haven't tried it since...

[johnrw]

Hi joe,

Well this just goes to show how much it is that I still use Knoppix 5.1.1!
When I said for now you can ignore the presence of... /etc/init.d/virtualbox-ose, and instead look at the show stopper in /etc/defaults/virtualbox was mostly because... if there is a line saying not to load... then it needed to be changed before attempting anything else. Then again, how many ways are there to control whether a program starts? For instance... is /etc/init.d/virtualbox-ose executable? a chmod -x /etc/init.d/virtualbox-ose can disable it.

But on more general terms... since we are using Knoppix hard disk install... some things don't work as they do on the dvd. We are left with some scripts... that work in the context of the dvd... but not with a hd install. The bright side... is we can edit ours... and they survive reboots. So the first thing we should do... is find out how the dvd launches a program... and look at the script involved. I know I did this for /usr/sbin/sambastart which in turn starts samba after asking some questions first. That sambastart script is really handy, because it constructs a critical file /etc/samba/smb.conf on the fly before running the samba daemons. I used it to do so, but then added my own additional options to the resulting smb.conf. Then I chmod -x /usr/sbin/sambastart so it won't overwrite my efforts anymore. That is true for virtualbox-ose. There is a script /usr/bin/virtualbox that the K->System->VirtualBox Open Souce Edition, menu item launches. It does not appear to be Knoppix specific.

Ok... now that we know /etc/init.d/virtualbox-ose is only for the net driver... which you will surely want if you desire to copy some files to or from the vm's virtual hard disk image to the non vm hard disk or vice versa. But did you make the change to the /etc/default/virtualbox to LOAD_VBOXDRV_MODULE=1 and reboot? Did it load then? Ok, I decided to resolve this for myself.
/etc/default/virtualbox didn't load the main vboxdrv.ko kernel module. So I added 'vboxdrv' to /etc/modules That worked for vboxdrv.ko on next bootup. This does nothing about loading the virtualbox-ose 'net' driver. For that to be loaded on every boot... the command update-rc.d virtualbox-ose defaults 80 20 will load that.

Now I know I covered this earlier... but there is also the vboxusers group... in /etc/group that you must add yourself to.
I decided to boot Knoppix 5.3.1 and run the K->System->VirtualBox Open Source Edition from the GUI (which uses the virtualbox script /usr/bin/virtualbox.) It gave no error, and is showing me a Welcome to VirtualBox! dialog... where the only thing I can do is create a New VM. The trouble for me there... I have Knoppix 5.3.1 on a machine with 512 MB, and it can't hold any more than that. (Samba Server on a P3 machine that is almost silent but has a 1TB drive to just put stuff on.) So I will leave it to you to actually run VirtualBox Open Source Edition on 5.3.1.

A word of advice: Once you go to all the trouble of making a Virtual Disk Image, and install Windows XP to it... using a given version of VirtualBox... you must keep using that version of VirtualBox. If you change versions of VirtualBox... then Windows XP in all it's brilliance, is going to detect that it is on a different machine and reward you with a BSOD on bootup. That happened to me, when Knoppix 5.3.1 came out, and I used the same XP-vdi file from my earlier efforts in Knoppix 5.1.1. BSOD. If I could find a good way to backup windows... to my Samba Server for instance... I might try upgrading that way. Maybe I will play with Norton Ghost inside that VM. After deleting all the hardware and installing just standard hardware in that windows of course. In short, plan on staying with a particular version of VirtualBox once you opt to build a vm with it and then the customizing that ensues.

That of course brings another question... OSE or the Full VirtualBox. Are they interchangable at least? Knoppix 5.3.1 has version 1.5.6_OSE and I have version 1.5.6 full. So enough hardware difference must be there to trigger a BSOD when trying to interchange between them. Maybe I just needed to install the guest additions on the ose version... I dunno. I just keep the same version, and that solved my problem. But I am not a VM geek. Gilles Van Ruymbeke is! This should get you running on Virtualbox.
Gilles can probably help you with getting the vmWare kernel module compiled and working in Knoppix. If anyone knows... it would be Gilles. I would suggest pm'ing Gilles... and explain your vmWare situation. He may even have a generic module handy. But tell him I sent you... and point him here to at least establish some history of your problem.

Now I am off to install Ghost into a vm... and see what I can do along those lines. I'm just curious.
Good Luck!

[johnrw]

Joe,

I think I'll make a short list... for using VirtualBox-OSE from the dvd first, then from a hdinstall. The first assumes that you have just booted the Knoppix 5.3.1 dvd... and have no persistent home to preserve any changes with.

Session:
1. As root -> Edit /etc/group : near the bottom look for vboxusers:141: and change it to vboxusers:141:knoppix
2. As root -> Execute modprobe vboxdrv
3. As root -> Execute /etc/init.d/vboxirtualbox-ose start
4. Logout of that session, don't restart the machine but pick logout. KDE will restart...

For Knoppix 5.3.1 hard disk installs, or even with a stock Knoppix 5.3.1 and a persistent home in use.
1. As root -> Edit /etc/group : near the bottom look for vboxusers:141: and change it to vboxusers:141:knoppix where knoppix is your logon user name. Adjust when needed.
2. As root -> Edit /etc/modules : add vboxdrv to the bottom of the list
3. As root -> Execute update-rc.d virtualbox-ose defaults 80 20
4. Reboot or do steps 2,3, and 4 from the first group... to get it running without reboot.

Starting Virtualbox by the menuitem... K->System->VirtualBox OSE (Open Source Edition) worked for me on a straight Knoppix 5.3.1 dvd session.
There is my short version.

One more thing... once you have got windows installed... and are done with the Virtual CD... pick Devices->Install Guest Additions.
It will download them... as an iso file, to a directory in your $HOME

Edit:add tags
KNOPPIX531DVD FIXSUGGESTED

[joeschmoe40]

Joe,

I think I'll make a short list... for using VirtualBox-OSE from the dvd first, then from a hdinstall. The first assumes that you have just booted the Knoppix 5.3.1 dvd... and have no persistent home to preserve any changes with.

Session:
1. As root -> Edit /etc/group : near the bottom look for vboxusers:141: and change it to vboxusers:141:knoppix
2. As root -> Execute modprobe vboxdrv
3. As root -> Execute /etc/init.d/vboxirtualbox-ose start
4. Logout of that session, don't restart the machine but pick logout. KDE will restart...
etc, etc.

First, thank you very much for going to the trouble to research and document all of this. I mean that seriously; it is always good to share information. Note, incidentally, that I am not so much interested in getting it to work on reboot (since I prefer not to reboot), but just in establishing whether it works or not. So, for me, just doing the "insmod" and seeing if that gets it working, is the ticket.

However, having said that, I think you've proven my point that it (virtualbox) isn't "just works". If you have to do all this futzing to get it to work, then it isn't "ready for prime time". And, as I said, I'm quite happy with Win4Lin, which is "just works". But it requires (a small and insignificant, but nonetheless real) payment, so it doesn't fit into the "everything should be free" model.

Thanks, also, for the pointer to "Giles" - (if I can establish contact) I will ask him about the VMWare module. If I had that, I wouldn't have to bother with virtualbox at all. Also, it occurs to me that it would be good if the Knoppix packagers could somehow either include or provide a URL for the VMWare module on the DVD. I understand, of course, that they can't actually include VMWare itself (but anyone can download it for themselves). It would nice if the module could be made available, though.

[johnrw]

joe,
Of course you are welcome. I do it for Klaus Knopper... as my way of saying thanks. The Knoppix packagers consist of a total of one man. Though lately, Klaus has been less active producing new releases, I came to know Knoppix as the best bleeding edge linux available in one download. You must be new to Open Source software. They way I see it... it's kind of like the movie Shane. You have those hired guns on one side... and some honest men on the other. Years ago, I couldn't imagine a world with linux in it. Today, I can't imagine a world without it. Who should I thank? Well the list is long... probably starting with Richard Stallman. Okay, okay... gnu-linux. That's for Richard!

Now about the 'everything should be free' model... well I wouldn't go that far... and well that part turned into a rant almost. So I chopped it out.

But in my experience, Open Source software is really responsive to it's users... where Microsoft's transmit a bug to a black hole is hardly satisfying. Now I think I have finished the process on VirtualBox by adding an item to the Official bugs list on the 5.3.1 DVD here. http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Bugs/5.3...complete_setup

I think, Bill Gates stepping out, just days ahead of the end of XP licensing, is poetry. XP is the best they are ever going to do.
The built in memory limit... 3GB for XP, will eventually render it insufficient for new pc's. By then we will be running XP DOS boxes in Knoppix 12.0.1 with 16GB host machines commonplace. Then 32 and 64GB... but my wife says... she is gonna die with Firefox 2 and XP... even if it is in a VM on super fast machine running gnu-linux underneath. I hope by then, everyone is getting paid something, enough to keep things moving upwards... but not enough to own a country or 2. I do think the OS should be Application Neutral.

Years ago, I could hardly imagine a world that had gnu-linux in it. Now, I can't imagine a world without it.

[joeschmoe40]

joe,
Of course you are welcome. I do it for Klaus Knopper... as my way of saying thanks. The Knoppix packagers consist of a total of one man. Though lately, Klaus has been less active producing new releases, I came to know Knoppix as the best bleeding edge linux available in one download. You must be new to Open Source software. They way I see it... it's kind of like the movie Shane. You have those hired guns on one side... and some honest men on the other. Years ago, I couldn't imagine a world with linux in it. Today, I can't imagine a world without it. Who should I thank? Well the list is long... probably starting with Richard Stallman. Okay, okay... gnu-linux. That's for Richard!

First, there's no need to rant; I think we are on the same side here.

Second, I didn't need to do any of that fancy stuff - all that's needed is to insmod (or modprobe) the module. Boom, you're done. For what it is worth, my whole point in posting on this thread was simply to point out that it didn't "just work" out of the box, in the distributed version (KNOPPIX5.3.1DVD-EN). I guess I was surprised to see you claim that it did.

Note, incidentally, that it bothers me that Linux has gotten so Windows-y lately. To me, all that stuff that you listed (changing various files, then rebooting and hoping everything works on the reboot) is the Windows way of doing things. Just insmod'ing the module and going on is the Linux way.

Third, some observations about VirtualBox, now that I have had a chance to play with it a bit:

Pro:
1) I got XP working in it and it seems to boot XP faster than any other emulator or real PC that I've run XP on. This is good, but I wonder how they do it.

2) It seems to be easier on the CPU (measured with "top") than other emulators.

Con:
1) It doesn't have the "floating windows" capability of Win4Lin. That would be nice.

2) It doesn't have the "no touch" install of XP (like Win4Lin). This is nifty - where you just put in your Windows registration code and say "Go" and it does the whole install without further interaction. I think VMWare also has this, but I've not done that yet.

3) Interestingly, I could not get Linux to boot in VirtualBox - I tried several different distros - they all failed in different ways. Is this supposed to work (like it does with most "generic" emulators, e.g., Bochs, VMWare) or is it Windows-only (as is Win4Lin) ? Note that DOS (from a Win98 CD) also works in VirtualBox.

[joeschmoe40]

One more thing I wanted to mention about VirtualBox on the Knoppix DVD.

(This next is true on the HD install (knx2hd) - haven't checked on the DVD boot.)

The GuestAdditions file isn't present. This is the file VBoxGuestAdditions.iso - it is nowhere on the system.

Note that I was able to snarf it off the VirtualBox web site, with a fair amount of futzing (it's not there directly; you have to download one of the distributions and manually extract it from the file - but as I say, that's the Linux way!)

[johnrw]

Joe,

Please, don't look at the Devices menuitem... when VirtualBox is running a Guest OS.
On some of the other points you bring up... when I said "...turned into a rant..." I wasn't meaning at you... but in a more general sense.
Please do keep it in mind, that this thread started when Knoppix 5.1.1 was the latest version... and VirtualBox was not on the cd or dvd. It had to be installed. It really is a different conversation to have, when talking about Knoppix 5.3.1, which has a version already, and whether to run the OSE or proprietary version that has the usb support. It's been a few days, and I got sidetracked... but I had started out testing whether the Knoppix 5.3.1 version could use the vdi images from the version I had downloaded... and I think they are the same versions. I never persued it because of the silly usb support unavailable in VirtualBox OSE... and that just happens to be the exact thing I needed available in this project, to monitor the TED 1001 box I had purchased. As a footnote or a landmark of some kind... I wound up putting Openwrt in a modified Linksys router(I added the second USB port to do this) and using a python script crafted by Micah Dowty, I could save the data... to a usb thumbdrive, or even telnet into it and see the live data. A 10 watt router with no moving parts.

Now since your best case scenario was to use a VMWare method... let me re-introduce you to Gilles Van Ruymbeke.
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=118954#118954
He even asks for feedback. I'd work with him on it if I were you.

Ok... what the heck... here's a couple of pictures... The model of the router I used is a Linksys WRTSL54GS. I also turned off it's transmitter... in case you wondered. Although the TED is sitting right next to my other router... a WRT54G v2.0, it receives the data just fine. In case anyone is wondering... No... I do not work for Energy Inc... am not affiliated with them in any way, except as a customer.



JW: edited to change image locations from comcast.