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Thread: Knoppix V6.7.0

  1. #41
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    Help me out here.
    What filesystems have this property.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by utu View Post
    @ Capricorny:

    Let's see if I have this right:

    0. What I shall call my working LiveUSB is one with persistent store which
    has accumulated additions and 'deletions' of program material. I wish to modify
    its original LiveUSB compressed image to embody all these accumulated
    changes into a new LiveUSB compressed image and to provide a new 'empty'
    persistence file for future temporary changes.
    That's the main spirit of flash re-master. Because the changes to the said LiveUSB with persistent store are accumulated, which means it has withstood the time test. If one were to re-master using a chroot, one will probably test it for at most a few hours. The user experience of testing using chroot is not as close resemblance to the final outcome, especially with regards to the graphic user inteface. Once remastered, there is a clean separation to allow one move on to experiment with new changes.

  3. #43
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    The user experience of testing using chroot is not as close resemblance to the final outcome, especially with regards to the graphic user inteface.
    ... within the chroot you can also test GUI-tools (starting from commandline) as root and as user knoppix.

    You can test your remastered ISO as extensive you like and as long you need - days, weeks, months. And if you want to change something, enter chroot, make your modifications in '/opt/knx/remaster'. That's all!


    Greetings Werner * http://www.wp-schulz.de/knoppix/summary.html
    Own Rescue-CD with Knoppix (Knoppix V6.7.0 remaster)
    Last edited by Werner P. Schulz; 08-11-2011 at 09:27 AM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werner P. Schulz View Post
    ... within the chroot you can also test GUI-tools (starting from commandline) as root and as user knoppix.

    You can test your remastered ISO as extensive you like and as long you need - days, weeks, months. And if you want to change something, enter chroot, make your modifications in '/opt/knx/remaster'. That's all!


    Greetings Werner * http://www.wp-schulz.de/knoppix/summary.html
    Own Rescue-CD with Knoppix (Knoppix V6.7.0 remaster)
    Sure, but exactly what kind of modification is it that we can't do with a poor man's install instead? Exactly what is the great advantage of going all the way to the ISO, as compared to making new cloop and persistent images? I have found a poor man's install (PMI) to be very, very similar to a full HD install, and in fact I much prefer the PMI. And such an install can be run and modified in a VM, just like the ISO, only simpler and more thoroughly, IMHO, as I just add grub entries and can modify kernels and minirt, with modifications only in the /boot directory which grub uses.

    It's not that chroot and all that stuff doesn't work - I just can't get what is the advantage of using it with present day hardware and technology.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by utu View Post
    Help me out here.
    What filesystems have this property.
    Knoppix supported: NTFS, ext2/3/4,reiserfs among others. You really need more?
    I am careful making generalizations, as all sorts of (for me) exotic file systems are in use nowadays.
    I realize that there should really be a FAT48 KISS file system alternative, to accomodate larger files in very simple use situations like this. (All the complexity is hidden in the file systems in the loop images, and mounts thereof.)

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werner P. Schulz View Post
    .
    You can test your remastered ISO as extensive you like and as long you need - days, weeks, months. And if you want to change something, enter chroot, make your modifications in '/opt/knx/remaster'. That's all!
    You just pointed out the weakness of 'chroot' testing. Yes, you can test as long as you want, but will one do it ? For sure I will not, because the testing is an additional work. Whereas flash install, the testing is implied in your everyday use. It is not an additional piece of work.


  7. #47
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    Space requirements and compression

    Just a small remark re compressed sizes for 6.7.0.

    With games, German help, some internationalization, icedove&kmail, abiword, lyx, ekiga, gnucash, epiphany and kdewallpapers purged, and R, Octave and some other math packages installed, and updated /var on the persistent image, we might call that a fully functional, trimmed, install.

    Uncompressed system size then became 8.2 GB, unoptimized cloop-compressed 3.46, squash-compressed 3.26GB. Which means there may be installed 2-2.5GB more programs before 4GB is exceeded. Also with the fast compression options, squashfs gives us about 500MB more room.

    Some 800MB is occupied on the persistent store, the largest part is Debian package-related information.

    And there is no problem fitting the whole thing, with a 3+ GB persistent image, on an 8GB thumbdrive or SD-card.

    What seemed a bit strange, was that about 300 MB of packages on this new release were upgraded when I ran aptitude upgrade. Surely, it can be good practice to run upgrade before remastering - I have now a better updated system than the 6.7.0 ISO.
    Last edited by Capricorny; 08-11-2011 at 01:47 PM.

  8. #48
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    @ Capricorny, kl522, Werner P.

    I think we may achieve better progress by sorting out the different
    dimensions of the 're-mastering problem'.

    1. The problem of deciding what constitutes the best CONFIGURATION of the
    end product: what's in & what's out; iso vs whatever; 32-bits vs 64.
    ....There are several ways to come at this and I don't see a clear winner here.
    I suggest whatever works, do it. Like religion, don't insist yours is the
    only answer. I'm aware of at least two approaches other than my own that have
    been argued here.
    ....My method is to be always experimenting with my LiveUSB; I occasionally
    make a simple tgz image of my persistent file. If or when I break my system
    I haul out the tgz image and reset things using current Knoppix 6 built-in
    capabilities. Works for me, but I don't insist anyone else has to like it.

    2. The problems of RESETTING the compressed image and the persistent store,
    and TESTING the end product.
    ....There are several ways to come at this as well. I personally would favor
    an initial solution that seems to be only a small addition to the current
    Knoppix, and holding off arguable refinements for subsequent further gradual
    improvements.
    ....I personally would be satisfied with an initial solution to problem 2
    that could be achieved without bringing in any new side issues, if they are
    avoidable. For example, I gather that remastering a DVD may necessitate dealing
    with 4 Gb filesizes, which may necessitate dealing with 64 bit solutions.
    In which case, I'd be happy for an initial CD-only solution, if that post-
    poned the necessity to solve these collateral issues . This initial
    CD-only solution would be a good advertisement for additional heads to help
    work this problem.
    ....Even in this CD-only case, testing the end product deserves special
    attention. Making CD's to see if everything works is not the answer.
    For me, Virtual set-ups on Windows is not the answer, either.

  9. #49
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    @ Capricorny

    Several questions for you, relative to your remastering script in post #36

    1. Does this script require any modification to the standard Knoppix 6.7 kernel or minirt.gz?
    2. Are ext and ntfs the most reasonable choices for /store/local?
    3. Is 64-bit configuration necessary to get around a 4 Gb filesize limitation with either ext or ntfs?
    4. Should I concern myself with any difference between linux's ntfs-3g and Microsoft's ntfs?

    Thanks.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by utu View Post
    @ Capricorny

    Several questions for you, relative to your remastering script in post #36

    1. Does this script require any modification to the standard Knoppix 6.7 kernel or minirt.gz?
    2. Are ext and ntfs the most reasonable choices for /store/local?
    3. Is 64-bit configuration necessary to get around a 4 Gb filesize limitation with either ext or ntfs?
    4. Should I concern myself with any difference between linux's ntfs-3g and Microsoft's ntfs?

    Thanks.
    1. No
    2. No, what is most reasonable depends on your use. NTFS is surely most practical if a Windows partition or two is all you have got.
    3. No
    4. No, not as far as I know. But as mentioned, try to avoid complicated things with NTFS.

    If you give an existing working KNOPPIX directory as target for the script, KNOPPIX and knoppix-data.img will be updated, Knoppix will run as before.

    I'm going to modify the script a little bit to make it more robust, and there was at least one parameter omission in the last step. But, basically, it's working.

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