Re-mastering Proof-of-Principle Effort

[vkrishn]

I may not be bit clear here, but does remastering mean considerable removal of installed application and install of new/other application, or just addition of few new applications onto existing knoppix system?

Knoppix does provide means to extend the existing system by adding additional cloop files in /KNOPPIX dir. I have used this method effectively (several updates) over existing 6.7.1 and in previous versions.
Some benefits of this method (only in case of USB installs):
1. Any new cloop file, example, compilation of forensic/networking applications can be shared separately, removing the hassle to download full DVD.
2. Even if a minor update is performed it can be added as cloop (though it would take more disk space), eg LibreOffice update.

The idea here is to build a set of downloadable/shareable cloop files, thus making Knoppix easy to update.
Example:
1. Cloop file for 6.7 to 6.7.1
2. Cloop extra networking tools for 6.7+ and so on...

Later, if needed it would not be very difficult for users to make a DVD version.

[Capricorny]

Yes, with the present DVD image size, in order to stick to the 4GB limit for cloop KNOPPIX, we have to remove programs to make room for substantial additions. (In my case, R, VMware Workstation and Oracle XE are the most important ones.) Instead of doing this, which is getting harder and harder to achieve while still keeping functionality intact, using the ability to chain cloop files can be very useful. I think that the main reason it has not been exploited more, is that it is kind of "third level" extension: First, the persistent store caters for most needs, second, creating a new primary cloop image suffices for most of the rest. I'm rather doubtful as to the usefulness of implementing version upgrades this way. Even within one release, it quickly becomes an hassle to keep it upgraded, and I guess this will be even worse across versions.

[vkrishn]

Yes, with the present DVD image size, in order to stick to the 4GB limit for cloop KNOPPIX, we have to remove programs to make room for substantial additions. (In my case, R, VMware Workstation and Oracle XE are the most important ones.) Instead of doing this, which is getting harder and harder to achieve while still keeping functionality intact, using the ability to chain cloop files can be very useful. I think that the main reason it has not been exploited more, is that it is kind of "third level" extension: First, the persistent store caters for most needs, second, creating a new primary cloop image suffices for most of the rest. I'm rather doubtful as to the usefulness of implementing version upgrades this way. Even within one release, it quickly becomes an hassle to keep it upgraded, and I guess this will be even worse across versions.

I would not refute that DVD 4GB limit is the core essense here, but
1. How many users/percentage who have downloaded, say 6.7 and regularly use it from DVD? Or is DVD version become more a storage/distribution media?
2. What percentage of users would want to have distributable version of cloop file for VMware Workstation and Oracle XE (I mean if it free from license hassles)? I would!!
3. Would I be downloading updatedable cloop for 6.7 even if its 1GB in size, rather than 4 GB DVD?

If one uses Knoppix on several systems (USB), he would likely use an update method.
I am more keen on various addon cloop modules that can be build apart from regular DVD.

[utu]

.
I use a 2 Gb Knoppix 6.7.1 LiveUSB as my mainstay OS.
I am not a programmer, but a frequent user.
My uses include internet browsing, e-mail and maintenance of some
personally useful spreadsheets with on-line information.

The CD size of Knoppix with its overlay process suits me very well,
with one exception: that is, when it comes to upgrading some its
larger elements like LibreOfffice or IceWeasel. Re-mastering is the
only really effective way I see to maintain a small end-product. However,
for my particular end uses, re-mastering requires too much additional
resource outlay, and frankly, getting it done exceeds
my short attention span.

I've tried several virtual system aproaches, and am not really
comfortable with any I've tried.

I expect I might be able to pull together an 'in situ' menu-item re-
mastering from available on-line material, but it would require most
of a 16 Gb usb. That would seem to be an absurdly wasteful
use of resources IMO.

Some other distros are going to minimalist base distributions as one
way of getting around my sort of problem. More frequent Knoppix upgrades
would also suffice, but KK has a day job and a family. I suppose he
might delegate some of his distro maintenance tasks if someone
competent were to propose something appropriate.

[Capricorny]

1. I think remastering can be made easy "enough", I will post an updated version of the remastering script used here as soon as I have tested and honed it a little more, and checked it for CD version use. I made a complete remastering of 6.7.1 DVD in about 70 minutes with it (running that cloop now), but slow file copying took a lot of the time.

2. Remastering may be the simplest way to contribute to Knoppix development, and creating and posting ISOs may be useful for that purpose. Wrt bandwidth use, posting scripts may, however, be vastly more effective But I would definitely download a pure 64-bits remastering of 6.7.1 instead of creating one myself. (My 64-bits version of Knoppix is 6.4.4-based and therefore "obsolete"..) Creating further cloops might also be a solution, a cloop with ca 2GB programs would be about CD image size.

3.

I expect I might be able to pull together an 'in situ' menu-item re-
mastering from available on-line material, but it would require most
of a 16 Gb usb. That would seem to be an absurdly wasteful
use of resources IMO.

In principle of course yes - but a 16GB USB3 stick costs me about $40, so these resources can hardly be called very expensive. I also see no reason for using an USB stick for remastering if HD real estate is available, USB or otherwise. The space requirement is only for temporary use, and I use a 20 GB loopfile for full DVD remastering. With 64-bits systems and more RAM, ramdisks may also be used for this - I have 16 GB system RAM in the machine I'm posting from, more than enough for CD remastering to ramdisk.

[utu]

@ Capricorny

I'm looking forward to whatever you might show us. I'm sure we will
learn something useful.

Also, I've seen a few 16 Gb USBs for sale in the $25 range recently.

[Capricorny]

Also, I've seen a few 16 Gb USBs for sale in the $25 range recently.

Sure - but what are the specs? 80/40 MB/s r/w should be enough to resemble HD performance. And slower sticks do feel slower. And what are the actual speeds obtained? I have just learned that even though a USB3 stick and HD have comparable specifications, the HD was very usable for running things like virtual machines from, but the "random access" stick was not at all. So, SSD disks or ordinary HDs seem like better choices to me. But for ordinary program running, a USB3 stick feels just fine.