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Thread: A USB KNoppix that can handle a 10GB+ Android sorce code download.

  1. #1
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    A USB KNoppix that can handle a 10GB+ Android sorce code download.

    From everything I have experienced and read 4GB is the best a Knoppix USB install can handle (I really hope I'm wrong). This means only kernel development could be done on the USB install (only 100MB-150MB downloaded).

    Would be great to be able to take with me anywhere I go, pop in a computer and continue with work on the ROM build.

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    The Joy of Hope Fulfilled

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyOpie150 View Post
    From everything I have experienced and read 4GB is the best a Knoppix USB install can handle (I really hope I'm wrong).
    You are completely wrong. The 4GB limit is FAT32 file size - as long as you use FAT32 USB media, you must live with that limitation - but you don't really have to stay confined to FAT32.

    And even with FAT32, you can mount several 4GB loop images expanding persistent store in 4GB chunks. When running from a USB stick, the base file system is mounted on /mnt-system, and free space is directly available. So if you have a 64 GB stick, and set up, say, 4 persistent stores on it, still only 20 GB is used (4x4 persistent+ 4 cloop), So you still have >40 GB available as FAT32 space, plus the Linux file systems on the persistent store instances.

    Partitioning the USB drive, you can also setup other file systems.

    For instance, running Knoppix from a small FAT32 partition on a USB3 harddisk, you can have a >900GB Linux partition mounted. I use a 1000GB USB3 disk this way for backup and portable computing.

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    A loose end here that troubles me, anyway.

    .
    Greetings, Capricorny.

    A nice explanation of the 4 Gb Fat32 filesize limit.
    We know that Reiserfs will remove this limitation,
    and we now have this as an alternative for the persistence files.

    But...why then does the creator stay with Fat32, anyway?
    That is...what is the advantage of using Fat32 for part of bringing
    Knoppix to life?

    Respectfully.

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    I can only answer for myself and that's simple: Storage used for data not affected by OS versions do not, IMHO, belong to the OS installation proper. They belong somewhere else, i.e. on other partitions. For my use, 4GB cloop + 4GB persistent store is enough for the OS-version related stuff (including user configuration data and casual stored files). And in that case, the files may as well reside on a FAT32 partition. Typically, things like Android or Tizen SDKs, or virtual machines will never be installed on the OS version related space, but instead on one or more large partitions with suitable file systems. I use ext3/4, YMMV. Working "The Knoppix Way", we never really need to do formatting upon installing new OS versions, other than for setting up USB boot media w/new persistent store.

    Using Knoppix, why bother at all with the native file system type where the Knoppix system files reside, as long as it works well?
    Last edited by Capricorny; 04-18-2013 at 09:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capricorny View Post
    Working "The Knoppix Way", we never really need to do formatting upon installing new OS versions, other than for setting up USB boot media w/new persistent store.

    Using Knoppix, why bother at all with the native file system type where the Knoppix system files reside, as long as it works well?
    Still, two loose ends (on why Fat32) , I think:

    1. A re-format of Fat32 is required if a previous OS is found there when making
    a new LiveUSB on a USB containing an earlier or different OS; and

    2. Even Klaus K has to split his overlays to do a DVD-size LiveUSB install on
    Fat32; he wouldn't need to do that on ext or reiser.

    I buy the argument that if it works, why change it, but the clever overlay solution
    does seem like overkill and getting away from Fat32 altogether would have. some appeal.
    in simplifying things.

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    First, I want to make it clear that I, too, am looking forward to post-FAT32 days!

    I'm just trying to keep everything in a practical perspective - disregarding most other aspects. But this has also to do with what to focus on - in short, what are the most important problems to solve right now? And partitioning, booting and file systems is in a state of change right now. We know quite a bit about the new emerging standards, and a lot of things will have to change. Media-wise. I'm unsure about what should replace FAT32, too. (How to avoid feeding patent trolls, among other issues.) I'm not even sure if it has to be replaced, as long as basic Knoppix systems in practice mostly uses with loop-mounted images, and we use an overlay-type file system. (UNIONFS).

    As for reformatting FAT32, I wonder about why it should be necessary, and then why it should matter anyway. I don't really want to spend time discussing with people having to protect files on USB media - they are trivially recovered from backup, and perople living without routinely performed backup better shut up, IMHO. Formatting FAT32 is mostly a matter of rewriting the FAT files AFAIK, so one formatting more or less isn't really practically significant for me.

    And as long as minirt init handles the cloop overlays, why bother about what is overkill and what is not?

    Over the years, I have tried out both bigger cloop/squashfs images and bigger persistent stores - those files don't live their daily lives on FAT32 anyway with me, so it doesn't matter if I break the 4GB limit. I have returned to the defaults, even with pure 64-bits versions of Knoppix, where files sizes are somewhat bigger. Because I don't see large advantages for me. A ca 14GB system (10 GB cloop/squashfs-compressed + 4 GB loop-mounted) is still big enough for me, but with program sizes increasing, a standard Knoppix compressed image will eventually outgrow FAT32 (and the DVD format). And I don't know if using several overlays is a very good solution, generally. Especially when remastering is factored in, and remastering is essential in my Knoppix use, typically doing 2-4 successive remasterings with each release. (I'm at 2 with 7.0.5)

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    Sorry For delay in reply. Have been checking my thread periodically, but forgot after a fashion.

    Capricorny: What would be the best way to go about setting up a 16GB Flash Drive to attain my immediate goal of Android Kernel Development (taking advantage of all the space) ?
    Should I use the DVD (hard to download where I am in Florida) or the CD.iso (the CD lacks a lot of pkgs and dependencies).

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    I think I'm on to something.
    I formatted tbe 16GB flash drive to FAT32. Then I resized to1GB. The rest I made an ext.4 partition.
    I installed the live version (from the CD) onto the FAT32 partition
    I need to label the ext.4 to whatever the persistence file name is on the FAT32 partition. Then delete that file from the FAT32 partition.

    Question: What is the persistance file name and where would it be located?

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    What is the persistance file name and where would it be located?
    Have a look at persistent memory.

    Why don't you use "Installation on FAT32 with additional overlay partition"? Simple exchange of 'knoppix-data.img (.aes) with an ext4-partition will not work.

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    AndyOpie: First, 16GB is way too small drive for your purpose IMHO. If you intend to do development, you should absolutely use the DVD version, and for a sizeable persistent store, you need at least 8GB for store + Knoppix cloop. One way to try is with a 32 GB stick, using 8GB for FAT32 with the Knoppix system, and the rest for, say, ext4 with your development packages.

    I would strongly recommend you to get used to ordinary Knoppix administration before you try to modify anything in more non-standard ways. Daily tasks include setting up, deleting, mounting and unmounting, and using, volumes outside of the cloop image and the persistent store.

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