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Thread: Suggestion to Klaus Knopper: release combined 32- and 64-bit base for remastering

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Suggestion to Klaus Knopper: release combined 32- and 64-bit base for remastering

    Wouldn't it be nice to have a Knoppix base with all the great hardware detection/support on 32-bit as well as 64-bit kernel as a base for remastering, without having to remove any applications and possibly break something ?

    I have tried starting with the CD version and just adding to that. All went well, and the result was a KNOPPIX compressed file system sized close to 1 GB. Quite content with my acomplishment, I booted the result with a 64-bit kernel, but much to my dismay the usual fabulous hardware support was gone

    I suggest a barebones Knoppix release version comprised of the basis for the Knoppix DVD with only LXDE desktop and only the applications in the categories System Tools, Universal Access and Preferences, and in Accessories only the bare necessities: File Manager PCManFM, LXterminal and Root Terminal. LeafPad is nice to have, but one can make do with vi if necessary. Knoppix Base should have all the tools necessary for detecting and handling hardware, including printing and wireless networking and Bluetooth and laptop power handling and so on.

    When you build the Knoppix DVD version, do you start with a basic platform as described above, and then start adding applications ? If so, could you release this intermediate platform as Knoppix Base ? It would be a great starting point for remastering, and you would also have a nice stable useful milestone in your build process.

    Maybe this version could save you a lot of questions about which packets are safe to remove. When people ask that, you could simply refer to the barebones release and say "start from this and add what you want. Don't remove anything."

    best regards
    Freddy

  2. #2
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    I second that! It would be marvelous to have the HW detection and file system of Knoppix and the modularity of Porteus. I think it would be possible to do that starting with a bare bones Knoppix. I have tried to strip out the CD version and, like many others I think, come up against some intractable problems (see other forums).

    I appreciate Klaus' effort in "getting it all to work together" but there are those of us who would like to take his great work mentioned above and extend it in our own direction.

  3. #3
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    The Knoppix way of mounting cloop file system overlays is already modularized (http://knoppix.net/forum/showthread....ng-cloop-files) , and maybe this approach could be a way to get a good remastering base:

    The basic cloop KNOPPIX should contain the 32 bit base with all the great hardware handling we know and love, and the LXDE desktop with only the bare necessities. This should contain only the applications that presently are on the CD version in the menu categories Knoppix, System Tools, Universal Access and Preferences, and in Accessories only the applications File Manager PCManFM, LXterminal and Root Terminal and maybe LeafPad.

    To make the Knoppix version that can fit on a CD, cloop KNOPPIX1 should contain what is missing in the basic 32 bit KNOPPIX cloop in terms of user applications. It should be possible to create the CD version by putting the two cloops KNOPPIX and KNOPPIX1 in the ISO along with the 32 bit kernel and the minirt.gz and the rest that it takes to make a bootable CD.

    64bit support should be put in a separate cloop KNOPPIX2 that is only dependant on the basic cloop KNOPPIX and the 64 bit kernel. The 64 bit cloop KNOPPIX2 should contain 64 bit base with hardware handling and 64 bit drivers. This cloop should be built to work on top of the basic 32 bit KNOPPIX cloop. I guess the 64 bit cloop KNOPPIX2 doesn't need to contain user applications.

    Finally the big cloop KNOPPIX3 that contains the desktops and the applications that can't fit on the CD. Thus to make the Knoppix DVD version, one should put all four cloops and both kernels into an ISO. When booting this, Knoppix mounts the cloops KNOPPIX, KNOPPIX1 (CD version), KNOPPIX2 (64 bit support) and KNOPPIX3 (desktops and more applications) in that order.

    To make a version with 32 and 64 bit hardware support and only a special selection of applications, I can take the basic 32 bit cloop KNOPPIX, the 64 bit cloop KNOPPIX2 renaming it to KNOPPIX1, and put the applications I want into a third cloop KNOPPIX2. Now I can easily make a remastered Knoppix that I'm sure won't be broken, because I haven't removed anything from the base cloops.

    Hopefully, this modularized cloop approach won't make too much extra work for the Knoppix developers team. It takes more effort to always keep in mind which packets should go into which cloop.

  4. #4
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    .. won't make too much extra work for the Knoppix developers team.
    There is no developers team with many peoples working on Knoppix. Read more about Knoppix and Klaus Knopper.

  5. #5
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    I understand that. It's seems a shame to me that that is so. I also understand that there have been many derivatives of Knoppix that went in alternate directions. That is a GOOD THING. What some of us would like and don't think is too much of a burden, is for Klaus to release a primitive Knoppix that OTHERS can use to create a modular Knoppix derivative. Unlike my friend above, I don't think it even needs a GUI, in that that could also be a module.

    The way I understand the process Klaus goes through is that he get a basic system running, then adds software, and then fixes all the havoc that software creates, while stripping weight (bytes) to fit an enormous amount of software onto a CD or DVD. All we are asking is that he release the initial basic system, so that we can make additions on our own. My dream is to take a basic system and create a Porteus-like modular system on it. This should be possible using the KNOPPIX1 containing filesystem.

    Klaus has created a wonderful, useful OS. But, as has been said many times and many places, its usefulness is limited because the CD and DVD versions are "not meant to provide" a daily use OS and it has proven difficult to convert these version to an OS that could be used in that way. By giving us a simple, Debian compliant system, I think that Klaus could enable us to create a wonderful, productive, easily used and modified OS.

    I realize it is totally up to him if he decides to do this or not. We're just asking. Please.

  6. #6
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    I believe KK is a rare visitor within the two Knoppix forums. It is usefull to write your suggestions at the mailinglist.

  7. #7
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    I think a minimalist knoppix with information about how to add a few specific applications is a great idea. I buy the full DVD for education and testing purposes and plan on continuing. However, when the "dust clears", I only use a few applications like firefox, thunderbird, openshot and maybe the standard office approach - perhaps updates and new installs would run more quickly with a minimalist approach and adding only the software I use?

    Thanks for the discussion.

  8. #8
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    I was in a similar situation as the original poster and so I use http://live.debian.net .Also as long as your hardware is detected by the kernel you are good.or else you can add it to your custom CD.I have done it to add my intel firmware etc to my custom bootable iso.
    It is very very easy to get a Debian live working.In fact I have made a blog post(http://bhavesh.freeshell.org/blog/linux/111222333.html) saying 3 simple steps to a custom bootable debian iso image.
    Let me know if you have questions as at this point I am fairly well versed with debian live.
    Hope this helps you get started.
    Yes it would be best if Knoppix had this feature but in the meantime , you can use debian live , because Knoppix 7.2.0 is based on Debian wheezy.

  9. #9
    While I would prefer to see Adriane ported upstream and be installable on Vanilla Debian with a simple sudo aptitude install adriane command, it would be nice to be able to start with the Knoppix core and Adriane instead of the full Knoppix CD edition.

  10. #10
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    The goal is to have a flash drive that can be plugged into any machine I run into and boots into my chosen desktop, with my chosen software installed and available. That way I can carry my computing experience with me, and the only differences between different machine experiences are hardware limitations on some older machines. A unified experience on multiple computers, priceless.

    Then, in addition, Porteus-like software injection allows me to add and subtract functionality on the fly, keeping the OS as svelte and fast as possible by only having software that I need for the task at hand. It really is quite amazing.

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