Programming questions

[i990315]

Hello!
I use a installed RedHat Linux 8.0 version and I'm a founder-member from a Linux Users Group at my university. I'm a Computer Sciences student and I'm working on a document to propose free software (as in freedom) usage as default. Although each student is free to choose what he wants installed on his hard-disk, so Cygwin, some free software for other operating systems and LiveCD distributions are being analysed.
I had just a small contact with Knoppix and it seemed very interesting. Does it has everything to programme under graphical mode? (X-Windows applications, Screen design software and so on) Does it includes KDE, GNOME and X-Windows libraries and header files?

Probably you're able to help me: we have a module during the course where is taught Visual C++, MFC and ActiveX. What FREE alternatives can I propose to this module. I consider that the most important thing in the course is to learn concepts, not OS-specific stuff which can be studied by other ways (on-line manuals, books, formation courses).

Thank you for your attention,

Manuel

[aay]

Knoppix does have KDE and several other window managers, but no GNOME (not enough space). There are some development tools. The best way for you to make a judgement is to download it and give it a test spin.

[Edwin]

Knoppix has KDevelop which seems like a fairly complete IDE to me. It has libraries for C/C++, Qt and KDE. However I could not find the documentation for these libraries and there was no graphical screendesigner. But I didn't have a very thorough look.

To your second question: if the object is to learn concepts, nothing beats SmallTalk for learning OO-concepts, IMHO of course. It is not included with Knoppix, I am not sure if it may be distributed freely, but it's non-commercial use is free. I'm talking about VisualWorks SmallTalk here, I heard there was a GNU SmallTalk as well, but I am not sure.

As an alternative: Python. Open source and included in Knoppix.

- - Edwin

[fingers99]

On the Smalltalk front, there is an evil plot to do a Knoppix with Squeak CD. In the meantime, in between time, there are some excellent debs of Squeak by Lex Spoon available. Squeak is "open source" rather than Open Source, but is freely distributable and has an extremely liberal licence.

Squeak itself is a dialect of Smalltalk.

Squeak is used as a learning/teaching tool by Gatech and is essentially one big playpen/IDE (although command line stuff is available) and is well (if chaotically) documented.

Have a look at

www.squeak.org (for "adult" oriented stuff and general how-to-download-it info) and

www.squeakland.org

for stuff more designed for children.

[i990315]

Hi!
First of all thank you for all your comments.
My question wasn't really about programming languages nor IDEs. I can't decide anything about that, so C++ and graphical programming are already unchangeable things (for now). And for a fourth year module I agree completely. I just cannot agree with Microsoft-dependancy, nobody can decide what I use. I just needed to know if it's possible to programme under Knoppix in C++ to X-Windows or use wxWindows... Something quite generic just to have concepts about graphical programming. Once C/C++, Qt and KDE libraries are included, I suppose it wouldn't be very hard.

Like Dyne:bolic, Knoppix and Knoppix STD, it would be helpful a "Live CD" to programming stuff.

Best regards,

Manuel

[Edwin]

On the Smalltalk front, there is an evil plot to do a Knoppix with Squeak CD. In the meantime, in between time, there are some excellent debs of Squeak by Lex Spoon available.

Thank you for this.

Downloaded, installed and played around with Squeak. The install had some errors, but the basic works and I figure out the rest later. Then I spend a whole afternoon with my two daughters racing cars around. They loved it! And where there are normally some powerstruggles between the two, in no time they were working together to create a 'cooler' car. To my slight annoyance they were better at driving the final product than I was :-)

I love to have this on a Knoppix CD. I can see the evil in this (your?) plot: start with the kids, world domination within six years ;-)

Please keep us informed.

- - Edwin

[fingers99]

I'm not doing it -- the effort is being led by Diego Gomez Deck in Argentina -- but I'll keep you posted. There are two threads to the Squeak on Knoppix thing: part 1 will just be to have Squeak on Knoppix, part 2 will have the Squeak IDE as window manager

I've just found a thread on the Squeak list which states that the Japanese edition of Knoppix put together by Kuniyasu Suzaki

http://unit.aist.go.jp/it/knoppix/

already has Squeak. I think the folk at INRIA are doing some work, too.

I'm glad your girls like Squeak -- there a several links to projects being done with fairly young children off the Squeakland site (last time I looked there were some nice animations 9 or 10 year olds had done which run off 5 lines or so of code).

[mzee]

"Like Dyne:bolic, Knoppix and Knoppix STD, it would be helpful a "Live CD" to programming stuff."

There is such a Live CD based on Knoppix. It is called "Niode" and is assembled in the Netherlands by Wilmer van der Gaast.

Everything you might need is there, except Qt. Have a look at http://www.niode.nl/main.php/english.html.

Or even better : download the ISO and give it a try.

Regards,

Georges.