[HOWTO]: Dual-boot Knoppix with Windows NT/2000/XP

**A. Jorge Garcia** · 10-12-2003, 03:13 PM

OK, all this grub, gag and XP bootloader stuff is great. But is there anyway to accomplish this, ie: dual booting without boot floppy or lilo in mbr, that doesn't involve the "Evil OS"?

I cannot modify files on the XP partition except when running KNOPPIX. The tech guys at my school are always running scared so when you boot into M$ WINDOZE, they have a security program called Deep Freeze start up that doesn't let you modify any settings or even write to the hdd!

In other words, is there anyway to install grub or gag or use the XP bootloader and not have to boot M$ WINDOZE? I like to do everything from KNOPPIX anyway....

TIA,

**j.drake** · 10-13-2003, 03:44 PM

AJG, you're talking about your PC lab, right? IIRC, you have them networked - couldn't you just set up their BIOSes to boot Linux from a server? Or do the Klingons have control over your server too?

Of course, I still feel the best option is to have a second HD with Linux, and switch the boot order to boot the Linux drive first, but I realize that a bunch of second HDs for a classroom of lab computers may not be feasible, to say the least. OTOH, I do suppose that the mere threat of you doing so might get your TS folks to work with you.

MAhahahaha!

**Leomania** · 10-13-2003, 05:38 PM

The second hard drive option is great, but not feasible in a laptop of course.

I've set up Knoppix using the technique described earlier in this thread and it works fine. However, I wonder if it's possible to just point to the partition where LILO stored the boot sector in boot.ini instead of having to use the "dd" trick; upgrading the kernel is a pain in the backside because of this.

My guess is that if this worked everyone would already be doing it, but I've never seen the reason why stated.

Thanks,

- Leo

**alert5** · 10-14-2003, 05:19 AM

"OK, all this grub, gag and XP bootloader stuff is great. But is there anyway to accomplish this, ie: dual booting without boot floppy or lilo in mbr, that doesn't involve the "Evil OS"?"

Single HD. GAG installed on HDA1. Lilo installed on root (hda3) not in the MBR! hda2 is a large FAT32 and hda4 is Linux swap. Did not need a boot floppy or mess with "boot.ini" or XP bootloader.

GAG offers Boot floppy as pick 1, WinXP as pick 2 and Linux as pick 3. When 3 is selected Lilo offers Linux or WinNT or VFAT with Linux as default. Rock solid.

I'm sold on GAG.

**A. Jorge Garcia** · 10-14-2003, 06:44 PM

alert5: So you mean to tell me that you installed all this using KNOPPIX only - not M$ WINDOZE, right?

TIA,

**alert5** · 10-14-2003, 07:54 PM

Lets see how to keep from overcomplicating the process. In my case all I installed was GAG from floppy. Once installed GAG handles the initial choice of OS to boot.

1. Initially my PC was a WinXP box with one 30 GB partition formatted as an NTFS volume.
2. I used Knoppix from CD boot to non-destructively resize the NTFS volume using the "ntfsresize" routine.
3. When finished with creating primary partitions, I had a bootable WinXP PC with XP in a 5 GB hda1, an empty 12 GB FAT32 hda2, an empty 10 GB Linux ext3 hda3 and the remaining hda4 set a a Linux swap file.
4. I downloaded and installed GAG. GAG recognized the XP, FAT and Linux partitions. Of course at this point I had only one bootable OS (WinXP). You really can feel free to install GAG at any time and it will prompt you to name your boot volumes without messing up the MBR.
5. I booted Knoppix from CD and did a hard disk install and made sure to pick the Lilo install to the Linux root not the MBR.
6. Now when the HD boot occurred, I just ran the GAG setup to name my bootable OSes. It really could not be easier.
7. If I press the 2 key XP boots. If I press the 3 key Knoppix boots. When Knoppix boots, Lilo recognizes the XP and FAT partitions as potential boot options and you can see this in your lilo configuration file.

GAG is quite stable. I could easily install Win98 for example onto the hda2 FAT volume and create a boot pick for Win98 as well. GAG will support up to 9 different OSes.

Hope this helps.

**A. Jorge Garcia** · 10-14-2003, 10:41 PM

OK, I'm going to have to break-down and read the gag dox. Just one more question, where is gag installed exactly?

EDIT: OK, I was just at gag.sf.net and it says it installs itself on the first track of the primary boot drive. How's this different from lilo in the mbr???

TIA,

**A. Jorge Garcia** · 10-17-2003, 06:19 PM

Oh well, I don't see the benefit of using gag over lilo as both are installed to the mbr, right?

Yes, the big bad Klingons from the tech dept don't want me fiddling with the XP partition....

Anyway, I used knoppix-installer and installed the knoppix (not debian) server as I couldn't print from debian (remember the whales?) with lilo in the mbr. Now I can use my printers but I don't get a login screen. Is there a way to get a login screen for the users I create on this server? If not, what about security? This knoppix server boots to a knoppix user that can mount/unmount drives, make them ro/rw, delete them.... This is not very secure, is it?

Also, in lilo.conf, how do I change the boot order? On the server, I want to boot to linux, but on the user's PCs I need to boot to XP by default.

TIA,

**paul_nl** · 10-17-2003, 07:43 PM

Hello,

Don't know if this helps, but here goes.
I think you gave up on GAG a little too soon, because it offers solutions for many of your problems

Originally Posted by A. Jorge Garcia

Oh well, I don't see the benefit of using gag over lilo as both are installed to the mbr, right?

Not necessarily. GAG kan be installed onto floppy, not touching the mbr of any of your harddisks at all.
If you would do that, then win xp (or win nt, or whatever os is installed on that first harddisk partition) would automatically start as if there is no linux on the machine at all, as long as you don't use the GAG floppy at start up.

To boot into linux, you boot from floppy, choose the appropriate key, and off you go.
There's really nothing to it, not difficult to install at all. I must admit I skipped most of the docs, as all I could possibly mess up was a floppy, but it worked flawlessly the first time I tried.
After creating the floppy (see the readme with the downloaded file after unzipping for how to do that), just boot from that floppy, tell GAG in just a few steps where and what your os's are (read the "in program help" for how to configure, but there's really nothing to it, save changes to floppy (the same one), and off you go. You'll be all set in under 5 minutes.
Just repeat with another floppy to be on the safe side and have a reserve (although you can always make such a reserve later from within windows as well, if you keep the downloaded GAG files (another safety risk)
Now booting from that same floppy will offer you the choices you defined.

Yes, the big bad Klingons from the tech dept don't want me fiddling with the XP partition....

And as may be clear now, when using GAG from a floppy you won't touch the mbr of your windows partition at all.

Anyway, I used knoppix-installer and installed the knoppix (not debian) server as I couldn't print from debian (remember the whales?) with lilo in the mbr. Now I can use my printers but I don't get a login screen. Is there a way to get a login screen for the users I create on this server? If not, what about security? This knoppix server boots to a knoppix user that can mount/unmount drives, make them ro/rw, delete them.... This is not very secure, is it?

No it's not. If Linux will be accessed by different users you definitely need to setup different users, with rights according to capabilities/competence.
But setting up new users in knoppix without "root" rights isn't hard at all.
I'm sorry, I have no idea why you lost the logonscreen, and why there would be a connection with printer services.

Also, in lilo.conf, how do I change the boot order? On the server, I want to boot to linux, but on the user's PCs I need to boot to XP by default.
TIA,

When using GAG from floppy, you don't need to. And you can set the default delay in lilo to zero if you want. (just make sure you install lilo in the bootsector of the partition where you installed linux).
Windows will be started automatically when not using a floppy, as there is nothing in the mbr to point to anything else.
You can even prevent unauthorized use of a GAG floppy, you can give each os in the GAG menu a separate password.
Windows cannot read linux formatted partitions anyway, so your linux configuration is protected against tampering from within windows anyway.
The only remaining danger would be someone fiddling around with a tool like Partion Magic ("ban" such software, or password protect as well)

Last hint, read the readme file in the [src] directory of the downloaded GAG files (all you really need is the info on how to make the initial floppy), other readme's are a little garbled. Don't get upset by the language quality, the software is excellent

So, if you can overcome the feeling of "being thrown back to the computer dark ages" by having to use a floppy (it starts up in just a few seconds, and after making your choice from the menu leads you on in less then a second) then GAG can probably solve some of your questions.

kind regards,
Paul V

**j.drake** · 10-17-2003, 08:25 PM

AJG, are you willing to consider an alternative approach? Bear in mind that I know bugger all about Linux networking, so this may not be feasible.

IIRC, we're talking about a bunch of networked Dells. If they are anything like the Dell I'm using at work, the initial boot splash screen (the one with the word DELL), lists in the top right corner that you can press F2 for setup and F12 for a boot menu. What if you shoehorned into your network a fileserver that YOU control (maybe a pawnshop special), to act primarily as a Linux bootserver, and secondarily as shared storage for Linux? Then, set your workstation BIOSes to boot in the normal way by default (floppy -> CD -> HD), so that XP loads by default. BUT, if you want to boot Linux, your students push F12 at the splash screen, and cursor down to the boot from internal NIC option., to boot Linux from your server.

I realize that I don't have the how-to answers on this, or the experience, but maybe someone else does, and if you could make this work, you'd have a not-so-poor-man's boot loader that does NOTHING AT ALL to your XP partition, thereby keeping the Klingons at bay. Plus, you'd have some network storage for Linux stuff.