Apt-Get Upgrade Issues... (resolved)

[Stephen]

Any words of advice on the new system install?
I plan on using the Knoppix 3.2 Live CD that I used for this system to get on the HD of the new system. The new system will also have a real USB "standard" modem, and not this WinModem, so access and setup of the new system getting to the internet should be without problems.

The new system is going to have the DVD and CD-RW from this system moved to it also. Maybe before I do my first apt-get [anything] - I should have a clue how to clean things up from the HD Install first????? Maybe then, I can clear issues before it gets to this stage.


Cuddles

Well you definetely want to get rid of everything on the system that you will not need or use to save on the upgrade time. In addition to the files I mentioned above you can remove the extra xservers that are there you can get a list by using dpkg -l | grep xserver-* you are most likely only using the xserver-xfree86 xserver-common ones all the others (with 3.3.6 in the name) can be eliminated. And you can get a list of all packages on the system with dpkg --get-selections > selections.txt which will re-direct the output of the command to the .txt file and you can open with an editor and see what programs are installed or will be installed on the next upgrade with the install in the second field. You can then use apt-cache show package_name to see what the package does and decide if you need it if you do not the start making a list of the packages to remove.

Some packages to consider for the list:

abiword abiword-common apache squid - If you do not need a web server the get rid of apache and abiword is a word processor and kde has 2 that will be installed anyway squid is a web cache server.

ethereal ethereal-common ettercap nessus nessusd - network sniffing tools

efax-gtk kfax - Fax if not needed bye.

wine wine-utils winesetuptk bochs bochs-wx bochs-x bochsbios - Windows and dos emulation tools.

partimage partimage-server mindi - Tools to backup and restore images of your partitions

mysql-client mysql-common mysql-server - MYSQL database

wmaker wmakerconf wmakerconf-data - Window maker windowing system.

xawtv xawtv-plugins - TV card tools

jpilot-backup kpilot jpilot jpilot-mail jpilot-plugins gsm-utils pilot-link - Palm pilot tools

libsane - Scanners if you do not have one not needed

isdnactivecards isdnlog isdnlog-data isdnutils isdnutils-base isdnutils-xtools isdnvboxclient isdnvboxserver - ISDN connection tools definetely not needed.

linux-wlan-ng wireless-tools - Wireless tools + search for the pcmcia notebook card tools.

lisa smbclient smbfs - Windows sharing

lvm-common lvm10 mdadm - Logical volume and raid array management most likely you do not need it.

koffice-i18n-de openoffice-de-en mozilla-locale-de-at - German specific packages not needed.

brltty - Braille tool to connect to a terminal for the blind there are probably others as well to search for.


You should try to get the system you have now working it will give you more experience at solving the problems that come up. And one more thing after removing all the programs you want you should run Orphaner for the libraries (deborphan) it is is the menus somewhere to have it remove the libraries that have been left behind by the removal of all the programs and when removing use the --purge option in the line to remove the configuration files as well.

[Cuddles]

Stephen,

Thanks I appreciate the (long) list of helpful work.

Amazing, Knoppix's Live CD is so intense, it loads perfectly from the CD, and has so much included with it, never thought for a minute that when it is installed to a hard drive, that it still includes everything.

Is this a common thing? (e.g. having to "tune" (down) after installing to your HD, that is?)

I guess I was (easily) overwhelmed with the magnituide of the OS, the ease of use, and the simple way to not only add software, update it, and even upgrade to newer versions. Problem was that I think I did some of this to myself. When I first (finally) got online, I jumped on the "security" issues, and knew I needed to do a "update", I forgot about the "upgrade" part. So, as soon as I hit the internet, I did a update, and then went on the prowl for new software. (i.e. screen savers, firewalls, games)

After a few days, thats when I remembered I should have done a "upgrade", and immediately fired that off. Knoppix, on the Live CD, was so immpressive, so, shinny, and so cool. It amazed me that this OS could do all the things it does, and all without M$ in the wings. I knew this OS was not only a keeper, but an OS that surpassed what is already on the market, and offered by "that other company". I know this OS has its issues, as this post was started on one of those issues. But, I seriously blame myself for this issue, and not the OS.

As I write this post, it is being done in my old system, and from Windows98, I feel lost now. Windows is feeling strange, different, and even foreign now. I keep looking down at the "start" button, and expect to see the familiar "KMenu" instead. I thing this system is going to stay Win98, the rest of the family is familiar with this system and OS. I, on the other hand, have grown past, learned, and grown up. I have "graduated" to the next evolutionary OS, Linux.

My new system will be Linux, it will not get Windows, it will not start down the path of ever increasing security patches, anti-virus signature updates, and new OS's every couple of months being released, nor will it have the dependancy that is "known" for that other OS. It will be independant, secure, and so will its user. I know the OS I want, and am learning more and more about, is the OS to use. Debian. In just a few short days of using it, I learned a lot about it, and, I know I still have a lot to learn.

I am going to use the time I have on the old system to get stuff off of it that I need. I am going to write a lot of this "data" onto CD-RW discs, so that when Debian comes "online" on the new system, I have a path to pulling that all important data from my old system, into my new system. So, all is not lost, just diverted in time a little.

Hmmmmmm, as a side note, does KMail have a way to import comma seperated address books? I have had many occasion that Outlook Express has blown away my addresses, and many times had to recreate the address book from scratch. So, I started to backup my address book to a spreadsheet, by use of an EXPORT to comma-seperated data file. Does KMail have a way to IMPORT such a beast? That may make the transition to Debian even nicer.

I need to copy, and save out, my "favorites" from within Internet Explorer, and strip off my old source code, and utility software on the old system. I will keep the old system in "limbo" until I am sure that anything I need off of it, has been, and then the two systems will be left to their own developing. One system dominated by the "other" OS, and the new system, free to grow with Debian/Linux. I am quite sure, in a few years, which system will still be running, and without plagueing problems, but, everyone already knows which system that will be.

Cuddles
[ps] Thanks again Stephen, I have copied the information of both your posts, and placed them into a text file, labeled: Things to be done -=- with a caption at the beginging stating: Do THIS BEFORE YOU DO A APT-GET UPGRADE ! ! ! ! [lol] Like I said, I "am" learning

[Stephen]

Konqueror can import your IE bookmarks if you use the edit bookmarks and use the Import in the menus. I just checked Kmail and there is an option in there to import both Outlook4 & 5 mail folders and what looks like a nice little tool to import the comma seperated text file that lets you assign the fields to what you want that is in the menus of the Kaddress Book so looks like you can do what you want with little problems. You should play around with them a little on the system you have now to get familar with how they work before you try on your new system.

[Cuddles]

Ok Stephen, here we go...

I already did the localepurge, I assume I did - when I looked at the /etc/locale.gen file, I didn't have the ISO...15, so I added it manually into the gen file, I also don't have all the "debconf" stuff at the bottom of the file as you noted. Lastly, why I am wondering if I did this, is that under /usr/share/locale - I still have the stuff listed in directories, and over 38 directories with names of the locales I removed.

Thats part one, now for part two:

Was going to remove the XServer stuff. Compiled the list using the dpkg command above, got the listing, and then got lost on how do I REMOVE them? Looking at the apt-cache information of say "xserver-3dlabs" - doesnt this XServer use the same "configs" or have some dependencies that ALL the XServers have? - I thought I wanted to do a "dpkg --purge (package-name)" -=- but I am not sure about that with the XServer excess packages????

When I finish with the extraction of the XServer's, I plan to go through the list, first from your suggestions -=- So, in the case of abiword -=- I would do the following command (right?) dpkg --purge abiword -=- correct?

This whole "dependancy" thing has me a little scared, I don't want to rip something out, that will, cause something else, that I DO USE, to get messed up.

As a side note: I don't know how this is, or has, happened, but now I can't run KSokoban - it yells in the KDE Crash Guard now. It refuses to run, either in Root, or any other user account. Since it was installed from the Knoppix 3.3 install of HD, how to I refresh the files? (hopefully without having to reinstall the whole enchilada) - I didnt do anything to cause this, in fact, I hadn't even done a apt-get update when this all started, what could have "all of a sudden" caused something not to be working?

Thanks for any help,
Cuddles

[Stephen]

Ok Stephen, here we go...

I already did the localepurge, I assume I did - when I looked at the /etc/locale.gen file, I didn't have the ISO...15, so I added it manually into the gen file, I also don't have all the "debconf" stuff at the bottom of the file as you noted. Lastly, why I am wondering if I did this, is that under /usr/share/locale - I still have the stuff listed in directories, and over 38 directories with names of the locales I removed.

I checked it looks like they are just empty directories that did not get removed on my spare machine on yours if there are still some files in there then you must not have installed any programs after having installed the localepurge that is when it first checks and removes the locales that are on the system then every upgrade after that it is an incremental process just the locales installed that time are removed. So are there files still in a directory or is it empty like this:

root@knoppixtest:/home/stephen# ls -l /usr/share/locale/ja/LC_MESSAGES/
total 0

If files still in it have you installed any additional software since first installing localepurge?

Thats part one, now for part two:

Was going to remove the XServer stuff. Compiled the list using the dpkg command above, got the listing, and then got lost on how do I REMOVE them? Looking at the apt-cache information of say "xserver-3dlabs" - doesnt this XServer use the same "configs" or have some dependencies that ALL the XServers have? - I thought I wanted to do a "dpkg --purge (package-name)" -=- but I am not sure about that with the XServer excess packages????

When I finish with the extraction of the XServer's, I plan to go through the list, first from your suggestions -=- So, in the case of abiword -=- I would do the following command (right?) dpkg --purge abiword -=- correct?

This whole "dependancy" thing has me a little scared, I don't want to rip something out, that will, cause something else, that I DO USE, to get messed up.

As a side note: I don't know how this is, or has, happened, but now I can't run KSokoban - it yells in the KDE Crash Guard now. It refuses to run, either in Root, or any other user account. Since it was installed from the Knoppix 3.3 install of HD, how to I refresh the files? (hopefully without having to reinstall the whole enchilada) - I didnt do anything to cause this, in fact, I hadn't even done a apt-get update when this all started, what could have "all of a sudden" caused something not to be working?

Thanks for any help,
Cuddles

This is how I did it on my test machine. You can see from the output the dependancies that it would remove if any, with this you can see that no other packages depend on any of these because only the packages listed in the removal line are the ones being removed.

[12:13 PM Thu Jan 08: stephen @ /usr/src]
>$ ssh stephen@192.168.0.10
stephen@192.168.0.10's password:
Welcome to Knoppix (Kernel 2.4.22-xfs)

stephen@knoppixtest:~$ COLUMNS=125 dpkg -l | grep xserver*
ii  xserver-3dlabs            3.3.6-44                  X server for 3DLabs GLINT and Permedia-based graphics cards
ii  xserver-8514              3.3.6-44                  X server for ATI 8514/A-based graphics cards
ii  xserver-agx               3.3.6-44                  X server for IBM XGA and IIT AGX-based graphics cards
ii  xserver-common            4.3.0-0pre1v5             files and utilities common to all X servers
ii  xserver-common-v3         3.3.6-44                  files and utilities common to XFree86 3.x X servers
ii  xserver-i128              3.3.6-44                  X server for Number Nine Imagine 128 graphics cards
ii  xserver-mach32            3.3.6-44                  X server for ATI Mach32-based graphics cards
ii  xserver-mach64            3.3.6-44                  X server for ATI Mach64-based graphics cards
ii  xserver-mach8             3.3.6-44                  X server for ATI Mach8-based graphics cards
ii  xserver-p9000             3.3.6-44                  X server for Weitek P9000-based graphics cards
ii  xserver-s3                3.3.6-44                  X server for S3 chipset-based graphics cards
ii  xserver-s3v               3.3.6-44                  X server for S3 ViRGE and ViRGE/VX-based graphics cards
ii  xserver-svga              3.3.6-44                  X server for SVGA graphics cards
ii  xserver-vga16             3.3.6-44                  X server for VGA graphics cards
ii  xserver-w32               3.3.6-44                  X server for Tseng ET4000/W32 and ET6000-based graphics cards
ii  xserver-xfree86           4.3.0-0pre1v5             the XFree86 X server
stephen@knoppixtest:~$ su
Password:
root@knoppixtest:/home/stephen# apt-get -s remove xserver-3dlabs xserver-8514 xserver-agx xserver-common-v3 xserver-i128 xserver-mach32 xserver-mach64 xserver-mach8 xserver-p9000 xserver-s3 xserver-s3v xserver-s3v xserver-svga xserver-vga16 xserver-w32
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  xserver-3dlabs xserver-8514 xserver-agx xserver-common-v3 xserver-i128
  xserver-mach32 xserver-mach64 xserver-mach8 xserver-p9000 xserver-s3 xserver-s3v
  xserver-svga xserver-vga16 xserver-w32
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 14 to remove and 52 not upgraded.
Remv xserver-3dlabs (3.3.6-44 Debian:3.0r2/stable)
Remv xserver-8514 (3.3.6-44 Debian:3.0r2/stable)
Remv xserver-agx (3.3.6-44 Debian:3.0r2/stable)
Remv xserver-w32 (3.3.6-44 Debian:3.0r2/stable)
Remv xserver-vga16 (3.3.6-44 Debian:3.0r2/stable)
Remv xserver-svga (3.3.6-44 Debian:3.0r2/stable)
Remv xserver-s3v (3.3.6-44 Debian:3.0r2/stable)
Remv xserver-s3 (3.3.6-44 Debian:3.0r2/stable)
Remv xserver-p9000 (3.3.6-44 Debian:3.0r2/stable)
Remv xserver-mach8 (3.3.6-44 Debian:3.0r2/stable)
Remv xserver-mach64 (3.3.6-44 Debian:3.0r2/stable)
Remv xserver-mach32 (3.3.6-44 Debian:3.0r2/stable)
Remv xserver-i128 (3.3.6-44 Debian:3.0r2/stable)
Remv xserver-common-v3 (3.3.6-44 Debian:3.0r2/stable)
root@knoppixtest:/home/stephen# apt-get --purge remove xserver-3dlabs xserver-8514 xserver-agx xserver-common-v3 xserver-i128 xserver-mach32 xserver-mach64 xserver-mach8 xserver-p9000 xserver-s3 xserver-s3v xserver-s3v xserver-svga xserver-vga16 xserver-w32
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  xserver-3dlabs* xserver-8514* xserver-agx* xserver-common-v3* xserver-i128*
  xserver-mach32* xserver-mach64* xserver-mach8* xserver-p9000* xserver-s3*
  xserver-s3v* xserver-svga* xserver-vga16* xserver-w32*
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 14 to remove and 52 not upgraded.
Need to get 0B of archives.
After unpacking 28.6MB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
(Reading database ... 108827 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing xserver-3dlabs ...
Purging configuration files for xserver-3dlabs ...
Removing xserver-8514 ...
Purging configuration files for xserver-8514 ...
Removing xserver-agx ...
Purging configuration files for xserver-agx ...
Removing xserver-w32 ...
Purging configuration files for xserver-w32 ...
Removing xserver-vga16 ...
Purging configuration files for xserver-vga16 ...
Removing xserver-svga ...
Purging configuration files for xserver-svga ...
Removing xserver-s3v ...
Purging configuration files for xserver-s3v ...
Removing xserver-s3 ...
Purging configuration files for xserver-s3 ...
Removing xserver-p9000 ...
Purging configuration files for xserver-p9000 ...
Removing xserver-mach8 ...
Purging configuration files for xserver-mach8 ...
Removing xserver-mach64 ...
Purging configuration files for xserver-mach64 ...
Removing xserver-mach32 ...
Purging configuration files for xserver-mach32 ...
Removing xserver-i128 ...
Purging configuration files for xserver-i128 ...
Removing xserver-common-v3 ...
root@knoppixtest:/home/stephen#

To remove the packages use apt-get -s --purge remove package_name look at the output and see what is going to be removed if there is a package in there that you are not sure about being removed of then use apt-cache show package_name to get a description of the package and what it does, if things look good remove the -s from the line to actually remove the package. Generally though you should not have to worry about what you are removing if you remove one program at a time unless it starts to remove half of KDE or the X server apt should only be trying to remove a few packages at a time when removing small programs to dozens when removing a large one, if you start to see a whole lot of packages (hundreds) being removed then you should not remove it and start checking to see why you need that package so much. For KSokoban I am not sure but you could try apt-get -s install --reinstall ksokoban to get apt to reinstall the package and see if that will help as always remove the -s to actually install.

[Cuddles]

OMG Stephen - All the answers in ONE POST ( you never cease to amaze me )

Thanks, again, millions...
Cuddles
[ps] Is dpkg and apt-get one in the same? As I am (still) learning here, I always thought (by their names) that dpkg was for getting/setting/etc... Packages, and that apt-get was for getting/setting/etc... Aplications. Am I wrong on this theory, when would one be used over the other, or are they the same, just different by name? Just some background info for my overloaded memory banks, not really important, just more info on the subject, would be nice

Mucho thanks

[Cuddles]

Stephen, everything worked perfectly, except...

KSokoban is still crashing - I even tried to apt-get remove and then do a apt-get install of it... No luck...

Here is the errors, one from the KDE Crash Handler, and the last one is from running it from a shell:

KSokoban -output from KDE Crash Handler
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...[New Thread 16384 (LWP 10456)]
(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
0x40fd6bb8 in waitpid () from /lib/libpthread.so.0
#0 0x40fd6bb8 in waitpid () from /lib/libpthread.so.0
#1 0x406abc10 in lt_dlfree () from /usr/lib/libkdecore.so.4
#2 0x40fd57f5 in __pthread_sighandler () from /lib/libpthread.so.0
#3 0x411fc498 in __libc_sigaction () from /lib/libc.so.6
#4 0x08053632 in QFrame:aintEvent(QPaintEvent*) ()
#5 0x0805e60b in QFrame:aintEvent(QPaintEvent*) ()
#6 0x08060112 in QFrame:aintEvent(QPaintEvent*) ()
#7 0x0805e2fc in QFrame:aintEvent(QPaintEvent*) ()
#8 0x0805db1c in QFrame:aintEvent(QPaintEvent*) ()
#9 0x08057ae3 in QFrame:aintEvent(QPaintEvent*) ()
#10 0x08061e52 in QFrame:aintEvent(QPaintEvent*) ()
#11 0x411e8da6 in __libc_start_main () from /lib/libc.so.6


Output from KSokoban running from a Shell - Konsole
[prompt] ksokoban
QGArray::at: Absolute index -1 out of range
[fired off same output in KDE Crash Handler
[prompt -after close of crash handler]

Possible resolution:
apt-get -s install --reinstall ksokoban


any help on the why?
Cuddles

[Stephen]

Stephen, everything worked perfectly, except...

KSokoban is still crashing - I even tried to apt-get remove and then do a apt-get install of it... No luck...

Here is the errors, one from the KDE Crash Handler, and the last one is from running it from a shell:

KSokoban -output from KDE Crash Handler
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...[New Thread 16384 (LWP 10456)]
(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...
0x40fd6bb8 in waitpid () from /lib/libpthread.so.0
#0 0x40fd6bb8 in waitpid () from /lib/libpthread.so.0
#1 0x406abc10 in lt_dlfree () from /usr/lib/libkdecore.so.4
#2 0x40fd57f5 in __pthread_sighandler () from /lib/libpthread.so.0
#3 0x411fc498 in __libc_sigaction () from /lib/libc.so.6
#4 0x08053632 in QFrame:aintEvent(QPaintEvent*) ()
#5 0x0805e60b in QFrame:aintEvent(QPaintEvent*) ()
#6 0x08060112 in QFrame:aintEvent(QPaintEvent*) ()
#7 0x0805e2fc in QFrame:aintEvent(QPaintEvent*) ()
#8 0x0805db1c in QFrame:aintEvent(QPaintEvent*) ()
#9 0x08057ae3 in QFrame:aintEvent(QPaintEvent*) ()
#10 0x08061e52 in QFrame:aintEvent(QPaintEvent*) ()
#11 0x411e8da6 in __libc_start_main () from /lib/libc.so.6


Output from KSokoban running from a Shell - Konsole
[prompt] ksokoban
QGArray::at: Absolute index -1 out of range
[fired off same output in KDE Crash Handler
[prompt -after close of crash handler]

Possible resolution:
apt-get -s install --reinstall ksokoban


any help on the why?
Cuddles

This one has me puzzled it works fine on my test machine here and I checked for bugs but there are none so it must be something in the libraries that you have installed it looks like it is accessing libc6 right before it crashes, on my install I have 2.3.2.ds1-10 you should use apt-cache policy libc6 to check yours now rather or not you want to upgrade a major package like that (if you have to) on the chance that it will fix a game is another story. I did a quick search and there is an xsok package for sokoban you may want to see how that works if you have to upgrade, this is only a few thousand kb for the download as opposed the many mb for the libc6 upgrade.

To answer the question from above. They are different programs that have a similar function. One would definitely be used over the other if you have downloaded a third party .deb and want to install it apt-get cannot do that there is no entry in the sources.list you need to use dpkg -i package.deb then apt would know that the package is on the system and could remove it if you wanted to, if you want to reconfigure a program without having to reinstall then you use dpkg-reconfigure package_name. One thing you should keep in my when updating the sources.list packages is to use dselect update instead of apt-get update the deslect will update both apt and dpkg databases at the same time and keep them in sync.

[staale]

I totaly share your frustration. arg!!

The problem lies in the menu package.
update-menus is for some reason not installed. (at least not on my machine)

My solution was to unpack the menu package.
ar x menu<somthing>.deb
tar -zxvvf data.tar.gz
Copy update-menus to /usr/bin
Do a chmod a+x /usr/bin/update-menus (as seen in the postinst script)
apt-get install joe

Now I'm also able to do a:
apt-get install menu
without failure. And start som other app's that did not work.)

Best regards
staale