Anyone use a router?

[A. Jorge Garcia]

I'm wondering if anyone has had any success running a router from home off a cable modem? I have several KNOPPIX cable ready PCs in my home office and would like to run them all concurrently off the cable modem. Is this doable?

I know, I know, I've already been told to use a hub and iptables, etc. I don't have any hubs laying about and I don't see any for cheap. I'm wondering if there's a cheap and easy way to do this?

TIA,

[Harry Kuhman]

I'm wondering if anyone has had any success running a router from home off a cable modem? I have several KNOPPIX cable ready PCs in my home office and would like to run them all concurrently off the cable modem. Is this doable?

I know, I know, I've already been told to use a hub and iptables, etc. I don't have any hubs laying about and I don't see any for cheap. I'm wondering if there's a cheap and easy way to do this?

TIA,

It's very doable. In fact, I wouldn't consider running without one. I personally connect with a router to DSL, but have connected knoppix through a router to cable at several friend's houses (in one case where I took the router there myself and set it up in about 15 seconds).

In addition to the firewall protection (which, granted you need less when running from a CD), the router will present a simple common interface to the ISP. For DSL this means it will log in for you, take care of any PPPoE issues, and such, no special software needed on your computer. For cable it will present a single static MAC address (which you can set to be the present MAC address the cable company already sees if it matters). The router does DHCP, so you can know locally that your system is working without even needing to be connected to the ISP, as well as providing a handy way to network multiple systems together or provide for additional access when you're visited by someone with a notebook.

Overall I think half of all network problems posted here would go away or at least be resolved much faster if the posters were using routers.

Yes, hubs are getting hard to find. And you don't really want one (or a switch) to replace a router, at least you don't if your ISP doesn't provide you multiple static IP addresses. With a hub (or a switch) each computer must have an IP address that is valid on the Internet. With a router the router gets the valid IP address, and assigns each local computer a local IP address (usually from the 192.168.xxx.xxx group) that can not be routed on the Internet. Of course, the router takes care of making sure all local packets get translated into valid Internet IP packets when required. About the only reason to use a hub any more is for packet sniffing with software like Ethreal (that's what I got mine for). Otherwise use a router and, if you need to further expand the network, use switches).

In general the routers work great (although I have had problems with the Belkin brand). There are a few problem applications, like Microsoft's Netmeeting, but even for these ther are generally solutions like putting the computer into a "DMZ" mode where it gets all incoming packets that are not for other computers. At the current costs (often as low as $10 U.S. after rebate for 4 port wired routers), the simple answer is get one and see for yourself.

[hardware_bum]

I assume you mean a "home" router. I've been using a Linksys wired router here at home, connected to my cable modem. No problems whatever. In fact, my kids still run various flavors of Windows on their personal computers while I run either Win 98, Knoppix from the CD or Debian Linux.

[A. Jorge Garcia]

OK, cool, I was looking at some LinkSys EtherFast 4-port Routers on ebay for cheap.

How does this work? The cable comes into the cable modem as usual but the output of the modem now goes into the router, right? I suppose that's one of the 4 ports taken up already. So I can add 2 more PCs to my current one for a total of 3 concurrent Linux boxes on the net?

How about:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=40993

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=20324

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=20324

TIA,

[Harry Kuhman]

OK, cool, I was looking at some LinkSys EtherFast 4-port Routers on ebay for cheap.

How does this work? The cable comes into the cable modem as usual but the output of the modem now goes into the router, right? I suppose that's one of the 4 ports taken up already. So I can add 2 more PCs to my current one for a total of 3 concurrent Linux boxes on the net?

TIA,

I would strongly suggest that you look around for a sale this Sunday rather than go with a ebay "deal". You might end up paying less, will avoid getting hit on "shipping charges", and don't take the other risks involved with ebay. Plus you'll have a new unit with a warranty. I frequently see good d-link, SMC and even Linksys routers for 10 to 20 bucks after rebate in the stores (Best Buy, CompUSA, sometimes Circuit City, even Staples and OfficeMax). By the way, I paid $100 for my 4 port Linksys a couple years ago and it was still a good deal.

The router connects to the cable modem through a standard ethernet cable (some routers include a short ethernet cable for this purpose, but I think the Linksys makes you buy or make one seperately). No, this does not use one of your connections, a "4 port" router actually has 4 local ports as well as a port to connect to the modem. So you have 4 local ports available. There are some 8 port versions available(as well as routers with less than 4 ports), but 4 port versions are the best cost/performance point available simply because most sold are 4 port units. If you need more ports you can add a switch (or a hub, but a switch is a better choice), how depends on the router (some have yet an extra jack, some have a physical switch you throw, some just senses the line and adjust automagically). So you get up to 4 computers on the network without an extra switch, for more add a switch). The downside here is that a 5 port switch only adds 3 more computers to your network - you use one port to connect to the router, but that uses one of the 5 ports on the switch and one of the 4 one the router. Still, it lets you run one ethernet drop to another room (if you want) and then fan out from there, so what you loose in ports you may save in cable. The DHCP server built into the router can generally support up to 253 local users.

[rusty]

Thought I would chime in.

Yes, a hardware router/switch combination, which your links point to, is generally cheap these days. However I wonder if you could get more functionality by using one of the PC's as the router and then a separate, and perhaps less expensive switch or hub.

This would involve placing a PC running say, Coyote Linux between your cable modem and the switch or hub, then connecting your other PC's to the hub/switch. Great use for an old PC.

I have an old P155 running CoyoteLinux and an old 5 port hub to which my other 4 home Linux/Windoze boxes (and a PS/2) are connected. Not pretty but it works great. I basically put two network cards in the old P155, the Coyote runs off a 1.4 floppy and set and forget.

You could just as easily place any linux box running Knoppix or whatever in the line, set up iptables, or one of the firewalls and still use the router computer for other purposes.

The only reason I didn't buy a router/switch was because I had the other hardware on hand.

If you search the forums here, you can find plenty of posts with links to Coyotelinux and such. rickenbacherus knows this stuff well.

A few links that might be helpful :

http://www.coyotelinux.com/
http://www.squid-cache.org/
http://lrp.steinkuehler.net/

[Harry Kuhman]

.... I wonder if you could get more functionality by using one of the PC's as the router and then a separate, and perhaps less expensive switch or hub.

You certainly can make a router out of an old PC. There are some issues, of course. Obviously you need to add at least two NICs to the PC. A bigger issue with me was that I leave my connection up 24x7, I expect it costs me less to buy and run an inexpensive, cool running, silent router that runs off a small wall-wart than it would to just power an old PC for a few years. I guess it comes down to if you want to go through the learning experience or if you just want something that solves the problem and lets you focus on learning something else.

As to using a cheaper switch or hub with a computer, I don't think that's very likely. The routers are sold in great numbers and often at a great discount (I couldn't find a really cheap 4 port wired router tonight in a few minutes of searching, although I did find that CompUSA has a $29.99 router that has 4 ports and includes 802.11b wireless access. [It's FMI brand, I know nothing about if it's good or bad.]) Still, I expect in a few days or another week after that at the most there will be some deals on wired 4 port units, there seem to be every few weeks. A 4 or 5 port switch might well cost more than the router with built-in switch, which really makes using a computer and then a switch purely a learning exercise or something done only for exceptional needs that the off-the-shelf units don't address. In fact, if you need a switch you might want to look at some routers - I think the firmware version in my old Linksys would let me disable the router and DHCP server and just use the device as a simple switch. In some cases this could be less expensive than buying just a switch (which are sold in smaller numbers and to "industry" that is less price sensitive than home consumers, so they are seldom as well discounted as routers like the Linksys, d-link, or SMC boxes).

[Harry Kuhman]

How about:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=40993

Let me point out I'm very negative about ebay so other don't have too. Still, here's the answer to your post: This one has a buy it now price of $20 bucks, but the seller leaves how much he's going to stick you for shipping as a surprise. I've seen many ebay sellers use the shipping to make their real money (I have a good friend who thought he "won" an auction and bought a cheap pair of speakers for 99 cents (the kind you can frequently get free-after-rebate at OfficeMax), then ended up paying $17 in shipping and "handeling" for them.)

I don't often see Linksys at less than $20, but I have seen it. And many retailers are doing "free shipping" deals now, while generally ebay sellers are not.

How about:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=20324

DANGER HERE! While the seller says "Share your Broadband Internet Connection Over Your Entire Network!", you might want to check how big that entire network is. It is a BEFSR11. This is a ONE PORT router! see here: http://www.linksys.com/products/prod...id=142&scid=29

If you get this you still need a switch, while will likely cost you more than a router. This for a buy-it-now price of $38 including shipping? No way in hell.

How about:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=20324

This one is alread sold. It sold for $28 plus $8 shipping, $36. Given that I can get a 4 port and wireless router from CompUSA for less today (not Linksys, but it would have a warranty and a large chain behind it, as well as offering a wireless capability if you ever needed it), I wouldn't be too sad about missing out on this.

[rusty]

I'll add a few more cents worth.

H.K. is right about relative cost and ease of setup of a hardware router/switch combo. I see a switch on CompUsa for $17 and a hub for $16 but most of the switches and hubs are near the price of a router, what with rebates and all. When I was looking at them, the routers were $20-$30 more than switches and they were $10 to $20 more than hubs.

I guess it depends on what the user intends to do. If the network is going to be primarily made up of Windows boxes sharing a connection for browsing etc. a hardware router is fine.

I was thinking that if Knoppix was going to be the OS on the boxes, then one of them might as well be a router/firewalll and could also run other services. And still be used as a workstation.

One thing to consider while shopping is whether the hardware router can be configured via a linux browser. Linksys for example has this on their website:

Q: Does the Wireless Access Point Router support any operating system other than Windows 95, 98, Millennium, NT, 2000 or XP?
A: The Wireless Access Point Router is operating system independent. However the web based browser utility will work with Netscape or Microsoft Internet Explorer. Linksys does not, at this time, provide technical support for setup, configuration or troubleshooting for any non-Windows operating systems.

Anyhoo: Happy New Year

[A. Jorge Garcia]

I find that if I do my homework, I have very good experiences with ebay. This means learning as much as possible about the hardware options available and looking for someone with a good rep on ebay selling with buy-it-now and spelled-out S&H that is reasonable.

HK: you say you have used several routers. Have you used LinkSys? What brand/model do you recommend?

TIA,