Intstlling Packages?

[sn0wflake]

I've tried for two months now to get GNU Linux/Knoppix working. In the beginning I was optimistic and thought "well, Linux has a steep learning curve, so be patient".
The first days was easy enough, I just browsed around in Linux and eventually felt comfortable as a plain user.
The rest of the time was excruciating. Simple things like getting my Danish keyboard working everywhere was a pain. Installing packages spewed out errors that offered me absolutely no help.
I'm just a simple user. I've read a lot of articles praising Linux. I expected it to be hard at first, but the level of complexity of Linux is just ridiculous.
This is not a M$ pro speech. I'd like to see Linux win over Windows, but if that can is to be expected then users should have a system that works 100% at start. If it doesn't then it should be easy to diagnose and fix the problem.
I expect two things of this post. Either it will be ignored as a stupid user post, or I'll get loads of post with "you should try this" or "read this". Hey, I don't want to read thousands of pages, I just want it to work and be easy!
I'm beginning to doubt installing Linux on my private computers

[sn0wflake]

"...but if that can is to be expected then..." - all your base are belong to us

A sad user of Linux

[UltraMega]

Spydie: Note that the "strace pacman" topic here does not necessarily pertain to you. Instead, Stephen is helping me try to identify why the program does not work on my specific setup. Regarding the program icons, the pacman package did not include the files and commands necessary to add it to the KDE desktop menu, as such, one is expected to add it manually using something like Settings --> Menu Editor. This is a task that we typically take for granted in the MS Windows environment, and the person or org that creates and maintains a given Linux package does not have to include the menu items if he/she/they chooses not to. I would imagine that part of the reason for this is that the application package may be coded for the X environment but not necessarily specific to any desktop system such as KDE (which Knoppix uses), GNOME, or others. I would like to think that those packages specific to a desktop system such as KDE will actually be complete enough to include adding itself to the menus. Does this help?

Sn0wflake: Many others out there share your experience and opinions. The general consensus today, while debatable, is that Linux as a "consumer-class" desktop operating system is "not there yet", partly for the reasons you describe. There are some Linux distributions that do aspire to meet that goal of a consumer-class desktop OS, such as Lycoris and Lindows (and I'm curious as to what Ximian will have to offer). Those distributions have great systems in place for the not-as-experienced Linux users to get packages for their system that the engineers of those orgs have spent time testing to ensure that the users can get up & running with as little effort and hassle as possible. In my opinion, Knoppix looks to be a great CD-bootable distribution with excellent hardware detection capabilities, but is not as polished in other areas. As a computer geek type, I am enjoying my time working with Linux and Knoppix and I even wish to offer my help wherever I can. But would I set up my wife's computer with Knoppix? NO. (And before anyone flames me, the main reason for that is she really does not have the time to re-learn tasks that she currently performs in Word, Excel, Publisher, and Windows-based clip-art software.)

[spydie]

Hi UltraMega,
I now understand about there being no icon, thanks!

I can open the Shell and type "man pacman" and read the manual

I just learned about typing "man" in the Shell, so it gives you some idea of what I know, not much.

I have a lot of reading and learning to do, but it's all fun.

One more question.
If I don't have a icon to click and start the program like pacman do I have to create one to run the program or should I be able to start the program by typing "pacman" in the Shell?

When I type "pacman" in the Shell I get this

X Error of failed request: BadName (named color or font does not exist)
Major opcode of failed request: 45 (X_OpenFont)
Serial number of failed request: 27
Current serial number in output stream: 31

Thanks for the help,

Edited to add: Looking back I see this maybe the same problem you posted about.

[turbinater]

I can open the Shell and type "man pacman" and read the manual

You can also type "man:/pacman" in konqueror to read the manual.

[UltraMega]

I had not checked before, but it looks like the install of the pacman package did actually add an entry under Games --> Arcade, but without any icon image. I don't think the pacman package included an icon image for it, so if you really want the icon to be something other than "blank sheet of paper" you may have to make your own (that's another topic) and use Menu Editor to change the properties of the pacman entry in the menu. But, looks like right now the bigger problem is just running the dang thing, since we both seem to be experiencing the same error messages.

Note the the items you see in the menu are nothing more then files ending in ".desktop". I like to think of them as a kind of equivalent to ".lnk" (shortcut) files you see in MS Windows in places such as \Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs. For KDE, the main places to look are under /usr/share/applnk (for items that all users can see in the menu), and in one's own home directory under /.kde/share/applnk. Note that any files and directories beginning with "." are "hidden" and do not show up by default when using ls or Konqueror, so you may have to change settings accordingly to see them. You may want to open one of the .desktop files with KEdit and have a look around. They are nothing more than another way to run a program or script, which as you've learned you can do from a shell prompt as well.

(Guys, as I'm trying to learn Linux myself, if I state anything here or in other posts that is incorrect please let me/us know so that I am not misinformed about a particular feature or setting. Thanks!)

[Stephen]

I don't think the pacman package included an icon image for it, so if you really want the icon to be something other than "blank sheet of paper" you may have to make your own (that's another topic) and use Menu Editor to change the properties of the pacman entry in the menu. But, looks like right now the bigger problem is just running the dang thing, since we both seem to be experiencing the same error messages.

I get the same error on the install that I did of the latest knoppix on my spare machine today (had to replace a dead HD) and pacman does not want to work at all whereas it works fine on my Debian SID machine. I made all the font changes I normally make and upgraded the xserver to experimental (what a nightmare on knoppix wouldn't even wish it on Billg) so I would have identical versions and it still comes up with the error so it is something somewhere I can't find in the Knoppix configuration.

Note the the items you see in the menu are nothing more then files ending in ".desktop". I like to think of them as a kind of equivalent to ".lnk" (shortcut) files you see in MS Windows in places such as \Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs. For KDE, the main places to look are under /usr/share/applnk (for items that all users can see in the menu), and in one's own home directory under /.kde/share/applnk. Note that any files and directories beginning with "." are "hidden" and do not show up by default when using ls or Konqueror, so you may have to change settings accordingly to see them. You may want to open one of the .desktop files with KEdit and have a look around. They are nothing more than another way to run a program or script, which as you've learned you can do from a shell prompt as well.

(Guys, as I'm trying to learn Linux myself, if I state anything here or in other posts that is incorrect please let me/us know so that I am not misinformed about a particular feature or setting. Thanks!)

Looks like you understand it fairly well.

[spydie]

Well after playing around with trying to get pacman to work and see others were having problems also I decided maybe it's not something I'm doing wrong after all.

So I went searching for a differant game to download.
That's not a easy thing to do for a Linux newbie.
With M$ I would find most of my downloads at download.com

Some of the games I would fine said I had to have other items installed to run the game. I did not know what a lot of these other items were so I kept looking until I found a game that looked preaty simple and did not list any other items I would need for it to run.

Here is the link. They even listed it for debian.
http://freshmeat.net/projects/fbg/?b...1&topic_id=268

So I click away until I find the file I think I need.
It ask me what to open it with and I pick Kpackage.
It gets downloaded into Kpackage and I click install.

Looks like it installs ok.
I make a note of the file name (fbg) because I don't really know were it put it when I installed it.

I open the Shell. Type "man fbg" and it brings up the manual for fbg

Next I type fbg and guess what?
The game come up and worked!

I have done much reading today about Kpackage, install, etc...

It feels good to get something so simple to work

[champagnemojo]

I tried installing pacman too for the heck of it...and get the same error all of you get. Spydie, don't be overwhelmed by packages that have alot of dependencies. If you use apt-get or Synaptic to install them it will usually go ahead and install those other necessary programs with it automatically. I'm a newbie too, so I know how overwhelming it can be. But for the most part I think I'm getting the hang of it now. Though I'd have definitely given up long ago if not for this forum.

[A. Jorge Garcia]

"...but if that can is to be expected then..." - all your base are belong to us

A sad user of Linux

Marcel Gagne Fans: Please don't give up so fast. You've taken your first steps into becoming part of the Linux Community. You got the book, you booted the CD, and now its time to play! BTW, that's partly what's great about KNOPPIX, in particular this forum and its user base, as well as the Linux Community in general is here to help you. So forget the evil OS M$ Wimpdoze and sending money to Redmond and its various lackies. You can get help here for free. That's what this forum is here for, especially for newbies as well as experienced souls whenever they run into a road block. And look, you didn't even have to send $1 or more per hour on a 1-900 phone call!

Sn0wflake:
OK, OK, hold on a bit longer. Take a deep breath. Its not that bad. I was a noobie once and if I can figure this out, you can too! BTW, I'm still a newbie in many aspects of Linux too....

You are right, of course, to be patient and expect a steep learning curve. So don't expect to figure it all out in one sitting. I know its frustrating at first, but its also exciting and rewarding. Think of it as an adventure - you're an explorer in new, un-charted territory and everyday you find something new that you can use...

Anyway, that pacman game is broken. Lets try something else.

Step0: I'm assuming that you installed KNOPPIX to the hdd using knx-hdinstall or knoppix-installer and you are running from the hdd. If not, you are running from the CD which is a read-only file system so you can't install anything. If you need help installing to the hdd, please post again in this thread.

Step1: On the bottom of your KNOPPIX desktop, click on the big "K" cogwheel. In the "start" menu you get, click <KNOPPIX> and then click <ROOT SHELL>. This gives you superuser access to modify your installation!

Step2: In that shell, type: apt-get update to make sure apt-get is up to date. This may take a little while. Don't worry if you get a few errors, I usually run it once a week because of the errors you sometimes get when some server is down.

Step3: OK, now lets search for a real game. Again, in the root shell, type: apt-cache search battle and you will see a list on games. My favorite is bzflag which is an internet multiplayer realtime game where everyone is a tank (a la old atari battle zone except better than just green on black wire-frame graphics) and there's flags to pick up to give you special abilities (there's even capture the flag team mode). The object of the game is to get the most points on a certain online interactive map by shooting everyone in sight. Yes, its a shoot-em-up, yes it sounds stupid, but try it, its addictive. BTW, its got cool 3D animated graphics if you have nvidia or DRI (even if you don't, but then it runs slowly).

Step4: Now, lets install this game, type: apt-get install bzflag. If you're on a LAN and want to host a local game for your friends you can type: apt-get install bzflag bzflag-server instead.

Step5: Close your root shell (you shouldn't use the root shell for everyday tasks). Open a regular shell by clicking the icon on the bottom of your desktop that looks like a screen with a scallop shell on it. In this shell type: bzflag and enjoy! You could click on the big "K" cogwheel, then "GAMES" and then "ARCADE" and then "BZFLAG" instead, but why?

Step6: If you have any problems, please don't hesitate to post back here in this thread. If your game works but you're stuck playing it, try KONQUEROR man:/bzflag or http://www.bzflag.org

I hope that helps you, Sn0wFlake, and any other "Sad Linux Users" out there!

Good Luck and Happy New Year,