Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 23

Thread: A couple of things we Linux users *really* need

  1. #11
    Senior Member registered user
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UT, U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,338
    Windos_No_Thanks,

    I agree with you on that subject...

    When M$ becomes "less" popular than it is, hardware, and software, manufacturers, will be starving to produce for "something" to make ends-meet. That "cute" little window that everyone looks for on any new products, may turn into a penguin. People may stop looking for that familiar "Runs in Windows xxx" stuff, and may need to look for "Made for Linux xxx"...

    Heck, if we are really looking to the future, for good, or bad...

    "Sherman, set the way-back machine to five years in the future...", Yes, Mr. Peabody...

    Hardware and software packaging, may, start to LIST Linux in the requirements, and even in the "Drivers Provided" section.

    I can fathom that. Walk into a computer store, and look at the next greatest hardware and software, and have listed on the side-panel, Works with Linux, or, Drivers for Linux...

    It can happen. Especially, if hardware, or software, creators, realize that another market exists that they can exploit. Right now, they don't care that much. M$ only has provided them a market that they don't seem to have to worry about, as long as they follow the "current" leaders footsteps.

    As the market share starts to shift, these companies may start to see some of the profits start to drop, and someone may happen to notice that they have been avioding another market in the world.

    I guess, if I am going to put a label on that time, it would be something like: "The Great OS Market Shift", and will be a time when manufacturers come to realize that providing M$ specific products only, may be decreasing the overall profits of the company. That time will be when WinModems go by the waist-side, as something like the OLD XT computer systems, and manufacturers begin to create hardware modems in droves again.

    Hardware and software will begin to come out that is either made for ANY OS, or, at least can be "tweaked" for use in "alternate M$ OS's" to get them to work. After that phase of evolution, the next phase will be multiple OS capabile hardware and software, products that run "native" in the OS. The final phase, will be Linux specific hardware and software.

    The final phase will lead down the path to marketing research that follows the purchasing of the "Linux" and "M$" products, and then determine which "side" provides a company with its better share of profits under purchasing. Linux, will probably beat out the M$ side on that, and soon after that, more products will be released with Linux, and less with M$. This can be liked to the same as finding any products "now" that provide support for Win95, or even the more older, Win3.x support.

    Marketing, or even research and development companies releasing products, will soon realize that the Linux side is WIDE OPEN, and a market that has very few competitors in it. R&D software and hardware companies will realize that, in the case of the Linux community, we are dealing with "last years latest and greatest", and making products that can be used "off the shelf" for Linux, would be swallowed up whole, by the community. If a company can see that having a market that is "waiting" for something, is far more interested in that, than the M$ side, where products are in severe compitition with each other for the lions share in the M$ world, a Linux specific would have a hay-day in purchasing, I think it is only a matter of time.

    I'd like to see Linux get as close to M$ as far as the PnP side, but, not to the extent of loosing what makes Linux better than the M$ side. Windos_No_Thanks, this could come from that using "non-native" drivers from the M$ side. By using, I may add, some of those inferior drivers, it may cause the stability of Linux to decrease. And as someone already said, it decreases the "need" for the software/hardware developers to create "native" products into Linux. Why recreate the wheel, when all we need to do is bash out a few kinks in our already created wheel to get it working in Linux. If we begin to walk down that path, Linux may soon be the same kind of OS as M$, and Linux will begin to see the same things that M$ OS's are already plagued with, possibly to the extent of seeing the Blue Screen Of Death in Linux.

    Just my thoughts,
    Cuddles

  2. #12
    Junior Member registered user
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    15
    Here are a couple of links about it:

    http://www.linuxant.com/driverloader/

    http://freshmeat.net/projects/driverloader/

    Cuddles, I understand where you're coming from, but all of that was said when Wine first came out too. Has its use harmed the development of new software for Linux? I don't think so, not really. More applications for Linux are coming out all the time.

    Wine is still in development and it takes a lot of tweaking to get Wine to run Windows apps. I expect we'll see the same with this driverloader when, or if, it's ported to other hardware, or something like it is made for other hardware. Some of it will work, a lot of it probably won't. Considering that, I bet what we'll see is driverloader's (or the equivalent program's) use being concentrated on hardware that there's been little success in getting a Linux driver to work with, such as the winmodems driverloader already works with. But here's the kicker: driverloader isn't GPL, at least I don't think so. So all of the Linux coders who get interested in this are naturally going to want to produce a GPL program that does all that.

    Remember, a development such as that will be a big boon to the poor, because as I mentioned in the first post of this thread, they (and I) can't afford to replace hardware, so if it doesn't work with Linux, or you can't find a driver for it, you're just screwed. Never foget the importance of Linux in many poor countries, and even here to the poor in the US.

  3. #13
    Senior Member registered user
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UT, U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,338
    Mistshadow,

    Not just the poor, but, when you consider that when you buy a motherboard, 100% of the modems that are installed directly on the motherboard are WinModems, you don't exactly have much of a choice.

    Same is true with Video Cards, Network Adapter Cards, and Sound Cards, all are coming out pre-installed, or more politically correct, hard-wired, on the motherboard already.

    This is a great thing, for the consumer, as well as the manufacturer, because you, the consumer, get more "bang" for your buck. But, not if those hard-wired devices don't get supported by your OS. In that case, your dollar just spent for useless hardware, and more money and resources are needed to "re-buy" the hardware you already have, probably in an external "hardware" version of what was hard-wired on your new motherboard - as in the case of me - having to buy an additional external "hardware" modem.

    I think the whole idea of a "wrapper" is great, don't get me wrong - it may get a lot of the unsupported "hard-wired" hardware working, and with less cost to either the manufacturers or the consumer - and may help in getting Linux into the "main stream" of the OS martket place.

    The nice thing about Linux, and the GPL arena, is, that given time, and a NEED, someone is bound to design something for it. That is where I think Linux is going to surpass the "main stream" OS's - like M$.

    As Linux gets more and more "steam", and followers, I think we will see more advancement in the areas that Linux is lacking, because more and more people will be starting to design in, and for, Linux.

    I am one of those people. I used to write tons of programs, mostly for the lack of something, in the M$ arena. Now that I have "jumped ship" over to Linux, my programming talent will now be applied into the OS I am using. As soon as I get comfortable in usage, and know what already is done, I will probably start to look at the development tools supplied with Linux, and start to write programs for it (Linux).

    I am quite sure I am not the only one who is also doing this. And better yet, I am not a driver programmer, mostly utility, front-end, and back-end software programming, but, I am sure that the many people "coming over" are bringing talents that will supply ideas, and developments, into the OS they are using.

    As I said, I used to write lots of programs in the M$ world, heck, it needed it, way back in Win3.x days. In the Win95 days, I had a field day writting programs that were missing in that OS. Even in the Win98 OS, many things were just "left out". So far, I haven't seen anything, that comes to mind, that is "missing", or isn't already included, in Linux already. But then again, I haven't gotten "familiar", or used to, Linux that much yet.

    Heck, about the only thing that springs to mind is, a utility program that displays the amount of UPTIME the system has been running. (that was sooooo needed in M$ OS)

    I wrote "Uptime" in a mere day, for Win9x and up, to display the amount of computer uptime in a nice pretty interface. Because, as I found out, if the OS was up for more than 12 hours, chances are, it needed a reboot. The idea for "Uptime" in Linux, is not the same need, but to display just how long you have been running, WITHOUT having to reboot. (I think I've been running for days now, and only reboot when I feel guilty, or when that other OS would have required me to)

    Oh, one more thing, I just thought of it... In the M$ world, you could get a utility program that went to the Colorado Atomic Clock site, and downloaded the time from the atomic clock site, and updated your computers clock, given the time zone you are in. Haven't gone looking yet, but, that would be a handy little "widget", for me that is, within Linux. So, lets see here, more than three weeks in Linux, and only two programs that I see a need for, hmmmmm, I think in Win98, it was a mere day or two, and I found the "need" for at least twenty programs.

    So, Mistshadow, I agree with you, and I think me previous post was not only a little hard, but, unwarrented. I just don't want to see Linux go the same way the Other OS has gone. Linux has a good thing going here - and maybe a good reason for a lot of people flocking to it - I just don't want to see Linux get to be as bad as M$ has gotten, in the stability area, that is.

    Just my thoughts,
    Cuddles

  4. #14
    Senior Member registered user
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    2,479
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuddles

    Oh, one more thing, I just thought of it... In the M$ world, you could get a utility program that went to the Colorado Atomic Clock site, and downloaded the time from the atomic clock site, and updated your computers clock, given the time zone you are in. Haven't gone looking yet, but, that would be a handy little "widget", for me that is, within Linux.


    Cuddles
    ntp & ntp-simple

  5. #15
    Senior Member registered user
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    361
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen
    ntp & ntp-simple
    Umm, I thought ntpdate was in the default Knoppix, I've just run
    Code:
    ntpdate -u hostname.of.timeserver
    and I can't remember installing any package for that.

  6. #16
    Senior Member registered user
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    2,479
    Quote Originally Posted by windos_no_thanks
    Umm, I thought ntpdate was in the default Knoppix, I've just run
    Code:
    ntpdate -u hostname.of.timeserver
    and I can't remember installing any package for that.
    I was just pointing out a couple of packages.

  7. #17
    Senior Member registered user
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    203

    wrappers and wine

    I think overall these are bad because they prevent real drivers being made.

    Take the linuxant one...
    OK, it works BUT the windows card comes with utilities etc. and you only get half the functionality...

    Realistically what windows needs is a kick in the place that hurts most, market share.
    Currently something like 94% of desktops run windows with the rest dived into Mac and Linux with a sprinkling of BSD etc.

    This is the problem. Writing the mac driver and then making a linux one is trivial and for standard devices like USB mass storgae isn't even needed.

    There are also legal issues, the firmware for 54G cards can't be published opensource in the US. This effectively means the rest of the world too if the company want to do business in the US.

    However its the critical mass of users that is missing.....

    I dream of walking into a shop just after payday and buying a webcam with confidence.... I just bought a useless TV card becuase they changed the tuner chip to an unsupported one even though its the same model.....

    Also some companies are good and bad....
    Take creative. My NX pro webcam refuses steadfastly to work....
    My awe soundcards and DXR-3 have opensource drivers!! this from the same company.

    I just got a Samsung laser printer .... total install time in Knoppix about 1 minute and its works great but samsung also manufactuer CD drives they don't say works in linux but 'probably do' - Theyre ATAPI so they should!!!


    The answer is in your hands....
    1) Start copying knoppix cd's to give to friends, aquaintances or just people you pass in the street.

    2) when a manufactuer does support linux explicitly email them

    3) when a manufacturer makes efforts to prevent a device working under linux (like netgear) email them....

    4) keep smiling were getting there

  8. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    157
    A couple of things we Linux users *really* need
    -A better attitude!
    -More forgiving of newbies!
    -More forgiving of others that don't know a language other than HTML!
    -A shower! I bet you haven't left your computer for days!

  9. #19
    Senior Member registered user
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    203

    Hunkah ???

    Hey get with it....
    I can't take a shower at the momnet becuase I had to take the electrical supply from the pump and heater to feed my PC's....

    Dont you ever READ THE F'IN MANUAL....


    I read the whole of 'Dealing with noobies by A. Penguin' and it says that we have to sit on you for six week until you hatch then we push predigested raw mackrel down your throat

    No seriously good points.....
    Its easy to say RTFM but its not always obvious which manual to read!!!

    I have to admit I installed my fist knoppix a week ago and accidentally used the wrong script.... it worked anyway but I read the wrong manual....

    Then I reinstalled another with the new script and that worked too.

    Reading the wrong manual for the wrong script can be more complex than asking someone HOW-TO, and if the answer is a link to a HOW-TO thats fine, but no need to be sarcastic!!!

    Ive got years of linux experience but never really learned Debian so knoppix is all new and exciting to me!! But at the same time Im missing some real obvious stuff (like subtlties on APT) which someone coming to knoppix from Debian wouldnt miss.

    Its really easy to forget what becomes second nature to you....
    Like the number of people saying hey root can't open a graphical app!!!

    RTMF my friend !!!
    Only its so much nicer to explain the DISPLAY variable.

  10. #20
    Junior Member registered user
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunkah
    A couple of things we Linux users *really* need
    -A better attitude!
    -More forgiving of newbies!
    I definitely agree with you there. I was at a Linux forum a few months ago that was just awful. Many posts were deleted by moderators who assumed you didn't search first just because you were a newbie. As if that weren't enough, the regular posters would make posts about how tired they were with all the newbies asking for help. "It's so annoying when they put 'help!' in the subject line".

    Well, boohoo for them. Frankly, I've never been to a forum where I saw Windows-users complaining about people new to computers asking questions. And then the nerds just like them wonder why Windows is so successful. Maybe because people like them were the first Linux-users they encountered? Grrrrrrrrr.

    But I still think making something like driverloader working with hardware that there's been no success on writing a Linux driver is a good idea. Regardless, whatever we think, they're doing it and they're going to keep doing it, because there's just too much hardware that won't work with Linux not to. And when they do, a lot of people who can't afford to replace their hardware will be glad, because they'd have no other choice but to stick with Windows otherwise. Unless of course, those who disagree with the idea would like to pay to replace these people's hardware with more Linux-friendly stuff for them?

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Prevent users from writing MP3's and Movies in Linux
    By emmbec in forum Tips and Tricks
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 11-25-2004, 11:34 AM
  2. A couple of questions
    By stv in forum General Support
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-27-2003, 04:13 PM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-15-2003, 08:40 PM
  4. Article: Migrating to Linux not easy for Windows users
    By Henk Poley in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-06-2003, 03:32 PM
  5. linux in general and obvious things missing.
    By VeeDubb in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-05-2003, 05:44 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •