Is Knoppix Safe for beginners?

[Cuddles]

Sorry to say, but, in Linux, there are no drive letters, only devices...

You need to know a few things about your computer system to understand device naming in Linux...

Your FIRST device is going to be /dev/hda[number]
Your SECOND device is going to be /dev/hdb[number]
THIRD will be /dev/hdc[number]
...etc...

For my system, I have a hard drive then a DVD drive, on my second IDE cable, I have a hard drive and a CD-RW drive.

My devices are as such:
/dev/hda1 -=- is my first hard drive device
/dev/hdb1 -=- is my DVD device
/dev/hdc1 -=- is my second hard drive device - first partition
/dev/hdc2 -=- is my second hard drive device - second partition
and lastly...
/dev/hdd1 -=- is my CD-RW device...

my floppy device is, pretty much the same as anyone else's, as
/dev/fd0

the numbering scheme is kinda easy to realize, once you know how your drives are partitioned, and the order of the devices on the "physical" cabling of your drives.

Primary "Master" device is going to be hda
Primary "Slave" device is going to be hdb
Secondary "Master" is going to be hdc
and Secondary "Slave" is going to be hdd

Linux sets up its devices by "physical" cabling, not like the "other" OS, which takes its devices from the cabling and BIOS. Knoppix will always use the same naming for its devices, even if you change your BIOS, becuase to change the names in Linux, requires changing physical cabling changes.

In Windows, you can "fake" windows into thinking the C: is actually the D:, and the D: is the C:, by changing the BIOS to boot either the second hard drive, or the first hard drive. In Linux, this trick doesn't work, becuase Linux goes off the cable order of the devices, which won't change unless you change the order of your drive cables.

Any device in Linux is going to be /dev/[something]1 -=- i.e. /dev/hda1, /dev/hdb1, etc...

On hard drives, you can have multiple partitions, either primary, secondary, etc... (where is Stephen when I need him )

the first partition on a device is going to be "1", the next primamry partition is going to be "2", etc...
a secondary partition on the same device, I think its called a "logical" partition, I think the numbers start at "5" and go up by one...

my second hard drive, see above, has two PRIMARY partitions on it, so they are device labeled: /dev/hdc1 and /dev/hdc2, if I had a third "logical" partition on this same device, it would be labeled /dev/hdc5, and another would be /dev/hdc6, etc...

(did I do good Stephen )

After you get Knoppix up and running, you might want to run "cfdisk" on your system to view the order of things - this command would be run in a command line interface - or CLI - or the same icon along the bottom of the screen that looks like a screen with a shell in front of it.

To find out the order of how your devices are labeled, you can also run "dmesg" from this same CLI - scroll up to near the top of the output and you will see what devices were found, what they are, and what labeling they were given. You will be asked, when you are saving anything, which "device" you want to save to. In my case, I get a list of the following:

/dev/hdc1
/dev/hda1
/dev/hdc2
/dev/fd0

here is a "snippet" output of my output for dmesg, showing my devices, and what the labels are for them:

cuddles@Polaris:~$ dmesg

[...snip...]

Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 1.44M
FDC 0 is a post-1991 82077

[...snip...]

hda: HDS722540VLAT20, ATA DISK drive
hdb: SONY DVD-ROM DDU1611, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
hdc: SAMSUNG SP0802N, ATA DISK drive
hdd: OPTORITECD-RW CW5201, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive

[...snip...]

hda: attached ide-disk driver.
hda: host protected area => 1
hda: 80418240 sectors (41174 MB) w/1794KiB Cache, CHS=5005/255/63
hdc: attached ide-disk driver.
hdc: host protected area => 1
hdc: 156368016 sectors (80060 MB) w/2048KiB Cache, CHS=9733/255/63
ide-cd: passing drive hdb to ide-scsi emulation.
ide-cd: passing drive hdd to ide-scsi emulation.
hdb: attached ide-scsi driver.
hdd: attached ide-scsi driver.
Partition check:
 hda: hda1 hda3
 hdc: hdc1 hdc2

[...snip...]

SCSI subsystem driver Revision: 1.00
scsi0 : SCSI host adapter emulation for IDE ATAPI devices
  Vendor: SONY      Model: DVD-ROM DDU1611   Rev: GYS1
  Type:   CD-ROM                             ANSI SCSI revision: 02
  Vendor: OPTORITE  Model: CD-RW CW5201      Rev: 160E
  Type:   CD-ROM                             ANSI SCSI revision: 02
Attached scsi CD-ROM sr0 at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 0
Attached scsi CD-ROM sr1 at scsi0, channel 0, id 1, lun 0
sr0: scsi3-mmc drive: 0x/40x cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray
Uniform CD-ROM driver Revision: 3.12
sr1: scsi3-mmc drive: 52x/52x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray

[...snip...]

One special note here, even though my CDROM devices are on hdb and hdd, they get passed to a SCSI controller for support, this is done ALL THE TIME, with Knoppix - so my real devices for my DVD are /dev/sr0 and my CDRW is actually /dev/sr1

Take note of what the device names are for my setup, and how they are described, this will help you locate and decide on the labeling of your own devices on your system.

(GOD) I hope this helps, (STEPHEN HELP )
Cuddles

[Bernd Blaauw]

Bart Lagerweij's WinXP Live-cd called BartPE, can be built when you have WinXP and/or Win2003 server, and his building tool called PEbuilder.

it's a complete livecd, and thus can access any NTFS and FAT filesystem.
No need for an installed Windows on harddisk.

Knoppix will have Captive-NTFS, which encapsulates the win2000 NTFS-driver with other files that it needs, like WINE also does.

I don't know if Captive-NTFS already works when you haven't booted the GUI (KDE) yet.
It would be usefull when the required Windows files can be placed in the KNOPPIX folder on the Knoppix cdrom (when doing a remaster).

the best way would be:
kernel -> drivers -> load Captive from /KNOPPIX
( -> mount harddisk partition RW -> put swapfile there ) ->
boot into Xfree86 + KDE

and then it would be possible to place your swapfile on an NTFS partition before loading into graphical mode (KDE).
however it requires mounting the partition as read/write.

don't suppose there's a possibility to "mount harddisk partition RW for swapfile only, mount it RO for rest"

[counterzone]

hmmmm.....

I have 3 partitions:
A:\ Floppy (hehe)
C:\ Windows - NTFS
D:\ Just other files - NTFS
E:\ Supposed to be recover stuff but doesnt matter - FAT32
F:\ DVD
G:\ CDRW

what letters would these be then? Man windows seems easy....

/dev/hda1 -=- is my first hard drive device
/dev/hdb1 -=- is my DVD device
/dev/hdc1 -=- is my second hard drive device - first partition
/dev/hdc2 -=- is my second hard drive device - second partition

[Cuddles]

CounterZone:

hmmmm.....

I have 3 partitions:
A:\ Floppy (hehe)
C:\ Windows - NTFS
D:\ Just other files - NTFS
E:\ Supposed to be recover stuff but doesnt matter - FAT32
F:\ DVD
G:\ CDRW

what letters would these be then? Man windows seems easy....

Assuming your BIOS is not "switched" on me here, and that your C:, D:, and E: drives are actually the same hard drive device, broken down into three "drives"... I don't have a clue how Windows[whatever version it is], broke down your drives here... So, don't hold me to this... But...

I would guess your devices would look like this:
A: = /dev/fd0
C: = /dev/hda1
D: = either /dev/hda2 or /dev/hda5
E: = either /dev/hda2 or /dev/hda3, or /dev/hda6
F: - either /dev/sr0 or /dev/sr1
G: = either /dev/sr1 or /dev/sr0

Not being able to "physically" look at how your drives are "plugged into" the cables and on your motherboard, I can't be precise here. Also, not being familiar with how your drives have been partitioned, by looking in cfdisk, or on Windows, fdisk, I don't know precise either...

If I was going to "guess" what device your FAT partition was going to "show up" on, I would say, the LARGEST NUMBER for the device /dev/hda -=- if the devices you have listed for your drives comes out like - hda1 hda2 hda3 - I would think the hda3 would be the FAT, if the devices come out like - hda1 hda5 hda6 - then hda6 would be my bet...

Since you can't be sure of the devices, I would suggest that when you boot Knoppix, if it asks to install a swap file, say no, let it boot up, find out your device names, reboot, and then reply to yes on the swap file, and use the device for the FAT....

And yes, if Knoppix boots up, it does a scan for a swap file, if you have a persistant home, it can scan for that as well. Use the following cheatcodes on the boot: prompt to tell Knoppix - while it is booting - to look for these:

boot: knoppix myconfig=scan home=scan

note: don't enter the "boot:" thats the prompt, and if you have either one of these, just drop the other one from the command line. You can also press F2 when you get that boot prompt to see other cheatcodes to use, as well...

Hope this helps,
Cuddles

[counterzone]

well, I thank you very much and I will try this out! I will feedback afterwards. I think this information may be useful to other n00bs such as my self.

Thanks again !!!!!!
Chris!!!!!!

[Cuddles]

My pleasure CounterZone,

I am glad I could help out

And, yes, be sure to post back, good or bad, I think anybody could benefit from more input...

Most of us, including myself, are just shy of saying we are noobies at this, some of us have some answers, and we try "real" hard to help, some are "Head Master Guru's" in this (Stephen? You listening?), but since this is an "open forum" and we all are volunteers at this, we are "all" learning more... (I admit to it, others might not...) I am always learning new things, and new ways of doing things in this OS, most of my posts are, usually, HELP type ones though...

Again, glad I could help,
Cuddles

[firebyrd10]

Exactly don't be shy. asking your problem might help someone else with the same.

Espically me. When I find something new I have to understand it almost completly or I go insane. (for example see my posts on SSH and X11) This forum does help. Thoguh I'm also trying to fight back that feeling also.

[bob58]

Hello All....very interesting posts here. I would like to add my 2 cents worth and I hope its OK in this forum. I see alot of posts from people saying that Knoppix "won't boot" on their computer, or it "locks up". A bunch of problems that we all try to solve for one another. This brings up a point that I read earlier about Linux being for "tinkerers, geeks, and people who read linux manuals for breakfast and settle down to a good Linux book at bedtime." After being into Knoppix for about 3 or 4 months now, I have to agree. It is fun. And it is cool, the whole idea of the live CD. But what I would like to see, is if people are really interested in Linux, Knoppix or whatever flavor, if they try the live cd and want to install on HD, then could some people make a standardized list of KNOWN working hardware, from modem to monitor all the way around. That way, serious people could build their own machines which will run Linux with no problems. Obviously there are tons of people running linux with no trouble. The only trouble I have on my machine is the built-in sound isnt supported, but does work. No stereo, just mono. I plan to install a LINUX supported sound card soon. I understand everyones configurations are not the same, but a standardized list of hardware in a machine that will work with linux would be good for all the serious users and people who really want to get away from Micro$oft products. I guess everyone cant expect the Knoppix live CD to work, boot on EVERYONES computer. It sure is one fine CD though! I have it installed on my 2nd HDD and love it. Of course I have different opinions for apt-get and a few other things! With the price of PC parts it shouldnt be too much trouble to build your own machine, if you are a serious Linux user. Or get a friend to build you one. What motherboards are Linux compatible? What Monitors? Just compile a list of the compatible hardware and either build or replace parts in an existing machine. I dont know, it just seems to me with the large amount of people into KNOPPIX now, and the price of computer components, most of us should all consider either rebuilding to KNOPPIX/LINUX standards or replacing individual parts. What do you think? am I crazy????

[Cuddles]

Bob58,

Good point, like a "who's who" of Linux, kinda thing...

Hmmmm, I know they have a "big" site on WinModems, and the doc files here are numerous, but one big list, like a list you can take down to your computer manufacturer and say: "Build me one of those!" [?]

You know, from what I know, its not a list of what works, but more likely, a list of what won't. Basically, I think of Winmodems in this catagory. You can get some, if not all, of the Winmodems to work, but not as good as they were "supposed" to in Windows. This is usually resolved by getting a modem that doesn't require Windows to work, like a hardware modem. They can have just as much "functionality" as there counterparts, but will easily plug 'n' go on a Linux OS.

As for monitors, hmmmm, they usually work, its only the video card that tells it what to do, so the video cards are the issue, not the monitors. A monitor does what the video card tells it to do, which either does it, or complains, and the video card is only doing what the operating system is telling it to do, which either can do it, or complains.

Motherboards, now we are talking techie here. I don't go around looking at peoples motherboards, maybe there BIOS, but I don't get inside the case when I want to boot an OS. So, whatever the OS, or the BIOS tells me the motherboard is, I have to agree with it. As for the CPU, I did buy a seperate motherboard and CPU combination, so I am very familiar with the CPU I have installed - some of the "standard" "Windows" people may not be that "techie", and would simply respond, "its a fast one!", or "I know its a new one!". This kind of response can also come from asking what kind, or size of hard drive they have, or the amount or type of RAM they have, etc...

For some people, if it isn't plainly labled on the "outside" of the case, or monitor, they have no clue what it is. They only know, it worked in Windows, or that it was just bought.

For these reasons, are why I say "techie" or "geek", not the physical attributes of them, but the fact they can probably find the CPU inside there computer case, or where the RAM is, or have "tinkered" with the cabling inside the case. Maybe, even replaced a card, or device, inside the computer. You have these types in the Windows World as well, but, more often than not, these are the people people call when they need help, or "something" isn't working as they expected. In the Windows World, most of the "techies" are viewed as the "grunts", who delve into the depths of computers, and possibly talk binary to each other. Whereas, in the Linux World, you are almost given the title for just booting the operating system (heck, you almost have too be, if you want to understand what is going on).

I never knew of Google, or SourceForge, until coming over the wall to Linux. Before that, it was just MSN, Microsoft, Lycos, or Yahoo. Now, I seem to only use google and sourceforge. Not so much for like, but for need. Most replies in "help" posts, usually fall back to these sites, like "have you googled?", or "have you checked for it on SourceForge?" - so the need arose for "bookmarks" on these sites, at least on my running Mozilla.

A list, a "common" list, would be a good idea, but maybe not on the stuff that works, but more along the lines of what stuff to stear clear of. Like, don't buy this! list... I not only think it would be a benifit, but be easier to not only keep updated, but to walk into a computer dealer and say, "I don't want any of these things on my computer!"

When I bought my new computer, which was being "designed" to only run Linux, Knoppix to be specific, I had, pretty much, a list of things I wanted "standard", and ideas of what I didn't want. Some of the ideas were based on "Windows specific" hardware, like modems, which, unfortunately, I was in error on my assumptions. I, therefor, had numerous trips back to the place of purchase to "swap" these devices for ones I thought were right, after a few "extra" trips, I got the right modem. Video, I posted here for the best "usable" card to get. Motherboard was a flat thing, just buy one that handles the CPU, the CPU was fastest but with cost being an issue. Modem was as stated above. Monitor, simple, had one, tried it on the Live CD, it worked, so it stayed. Keyboard, mouse, pretty much standard stuff - I like the wheel and "ball-less" type, but not the USB, had to be PS2, for the mouse, and the keyboard was my "old tried and true" M$ Natural, both worked in Live CD, so they stayed.

I think this is a good reason why the Live CD is being used, it "tests" your hardware, if it works with the Live CD, it will probably work with the HDD installed. First time I ran the CD, I just thought it was a "teaser" disk, one that, if you wanted the OS, you went out and bought the "full blown" version, only to find out "this was it." - I was incredibly impressed. Not in the Windows World, would it be released this way, nor a full version on the same media.

Hmmmmm, wonder what other people think about this "list" idea?

time will tell,
Cuddles

[counterzone]

lol. yeah. no only joking. But isnt there one already on www.linux.org im pretty sure there is. One more thing. I just redownloaded it and it wont burn. hmm. Ill try with a different burner. It comes up with some error. THEN i will try it

Chris!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!