Fear of flying...Linux

[garyng]

no, you won't hurt anything on that FAT32 partition which is the number one reason why I said loopback is good, messing around with partitions(whatever partition tools you use which claims to be safe) can trash the whole HD.

BTW, you don't need the mounting of FAT32(/dev/hda5) if you already have a mount point. just do the dd, make2fs and mount -o loop and you will have a virtualized ext3 file system on that single file under FAT32 which is visible under both windows and almost any flavor of linux. So you can bzip2 it and save to offline media. Of course, make sure you are using the right file on that FAT32 fs as using the wrong filename may trash your existing file of that name, which I assume you know.

I learnt all these because of KNOPPIX. It is an amazing piece of software but once I want it to permanently live on my existing computer(notebook running XP), I am stuck as it has no more free HD space for partitioning thus the hdinstall won't work(true as far as I know for all its derivatives and other distro as well except topolgi). This sad fact is also the case for most of the new PC I encountered, one big FAT32 or NTFS paritition running XP. The poorman's installation works but I can change nothing to it.

Because of this frustration(and my desire to populate linux on any machine I touch), I venture into ways to run linux without partitioning and have minimum interference with the existing setup.

[eco2geek]

Another consideration: FAT32 partitions can only hold files up to 4090M in size, so depending on how much stuff you've got installed, you might hit a wall storing an image. Although some of these Linux wizards can probably tell you how to slice 'n' dice files. (IIRC, NTFS partitions supposedly can store files up to 3 terabytes in size.)

P.S. Kanotix 05/2004 is great! Only issue so far is that I have to run alsaconf every time for some reason.

[garyng]

For the rootfs, 4G is much more than enough. I only give 1G to it. Then I make some more files each for /usr/src, /var, swap etc.

Of course, one can also use NTFS but that needs the new linux driver if there is a need for such a large single piece of storage space. Or the LVM thing, but that is something a bit more complex.

However, as my caveat, we are not talking about server so I wonder how likely one needs that many space

[nishtya]

Gary, I will give it a shot tomorrow maybe but keeping in my mind Eco's caveat about the file size. Root is not quite 2 gig. My whole installation is just around 4.

Eco, aint kanotix, nice? As for alsa, I had that problem with the first kanotix install. What I did on the second install to make it "stick", I am not completely sure though I think I have a method down that works for me, anyway. Is the problem related to the volume for user not saving and being muted on every restart?

[eco2geek]

Yes, that's it. Duh, if you put alsactl restore at the end of /etc/init.d/bootmisc.sh that does it. Thanks.

Do you see several messages to the effect that the USB module is already loaded when you boot?

[nishtya]

nope, OK here. I don't know whether I ran kano's script for usb, I think I tried but it failed whatever it was it was going to do -perhaps because I didn't need it. Anyway, maybe will work for your situation? http://kanotix.com/files/fix-usb.sh

[eco2geek]

It looks like some daemon is trying to load the USB module again (where are messages after the kernel's loaded, but before you get to a boot prompt, stored? Can't find it in /var/log). And throwing up error messages.

Kano's "fix USB" script didn't help. But no biggie. It doesn't hang and I don't have any USB devices attached to my computer anyway. Not terribly motivated to look for a fix.

[nishtya]

Sorry it didn't help, Eco. Could be something different in BH5 as opposed to my BH4 or a hardware difference. Have you checked on hotplug? There is an updated pkg for me anyway, perhaps it is already in BH5 and is buggy.

PS - check out my nojoy in the munjoy thread

[eco2geek]

Uh oh, you're supposed to see (in the same 1024x768 screen resolution as it starts in) a text-based blue screen with a dialog box asking you what hard disk partition you want to install Munjoy on.

[Cuddles]

Nishtya,

My Sister-In-Noob,

I really "felt" what you were saying (in your original post), I am in complete agreement, and feel exactly the same.

I kind of liken it to a "false sense of security". You come to Knoppix, with a vast knowledge of other Operating Systems, and yet, hit a wall, in essence, when you run Knoppix. I am finding errors, that, appear to be, so cryptic, and so "what the heck is wrong?" stuff.

I just hit another of these, stumbling blocks. This time in an area, I have never seen an error, or have a clue what to do about it. This error came up during booting, and from something that only runs every 40 boots, or mounts, fsck. Worse than that, it just blurts out "I have had a problem", and then stops booting, and states "You fix it!" - in my own words -=- Fix it? How? Whats wrong? What do I do? How bad is it, fsck? No answers, just a blank root prompt, and no operating system to back me up for help? No man pages, no nothing.

Fear of flying? Naaaaaaa, more likely, jumping out of a "safe" plane, and "hoping" the "guy" who packed your parachute did it "right". And, when you need it the most, you pull the rip-cord, and PRAY, it opens. Hopefully, before you hit the ground with complete velocity.

So, you get into the plane, with your parachute packed (apt-get update), you prepare for your plummetting jump (watch all the updates scroll by the screen), you get the signal to jump (type in the apt-get upgrade), and begin your jump (hit enter)... You enjoy the freefall, and watch as the ground gets closer and closer, at an almost alarming rate, and at a increasing speed (you view the contents of what is going to be upgraded, what won't, and what maybe being removed), you reach for the rip-cord, hoping you can find it in time (you hover your finger over the enter key, after pressing the Y), you begin to pull the rip-cord, again, hoping that the cord doesn't break from the strain (press enter). Pulling the cord harder, knowing this is the only thing that is going to stop you, it finally gives way to a limp piece of cord (you watch, praying your upgraded files download ok), the starter chute comes out of the back of your chute pack (your downloads complete). This being the last chance, the last hope of your survival, the last concern of this experiance, you look up to see if your "real" parachute gets pulled out, and opens correctly (downloading completed, you watch to see what breaks, what doesn't unpack, what pipes break, and if apt-get just blows up)...

The final experiance:
*** Your parachute opens perfectly, and you glide, ever so gently to a ground that comes up to you in a far safer speed than you were going previously (apt-get completes, no yelling, no problems, no issues)

*** Your parachute refuses to open, it just flaps violently in the wind, the ground comes up faster and faster, as you look at the end coming, the ground becomes clearer and cleaer, you can see more and more detail, first large rocks, then smaller rocks, then fine details of the dirt, and then, P O W ! ! (apt-get blows up, leaves you in a state of "who knows what", and you are left to, not only figure out what went wrong, but what you need to do to fix it, and worse, what did it all do to your complete system. Can it survive? Can we rebuild it? Or is it just a pile of flattened goo on the ground? If the later, a reinstall is necessary, all of the others, definately require a posting of another topic on the "General Support" forum)

I have seen way too many HORROR movies, with less scareyness than this. Jason, Mike Myers, Freddie Krugger, Chucky, mere "childs" toys to the horror that Linux can cause. I have never had more fear then to see my working computer burp up a fatal error on booting, running something like fsck. Or, having apt-get install throw out a few messages about broken pipes, and then die on me. Having a apt-get upgrade go through convulsions while trying to remove a package, when it was going to add a new one right after that, and now, lay comatose at a root prompt, with screens and screens of messages that not only would a cryptographer not be able to decypher, but has left me to the dirty work of understanding. But the biggest horror is, by far, thinking that "something" you are trying to add is "but a little thing", like adding a shortcut, or a macro, or even a filter for viewing WMF images, which, I might add, is like the cute, young, teenage girl in a horror movie, just thinking that "openning this door" isn't going to unleash all hell. In which case, it does.

I have read many, and seen many, names for phobias, and the words to describe a phobic reaction, and yet, I have not heard a single word about Linux, why? It appears to me, that there should be, one seriously frightening word, one that would instil screaming, a need to run away, or a reaction that caused ones face to go blank, and stay that way for the next ten years. Knoppiphobia, thats it, or Mandraphobia, SuSEaphobia. Me, though, I don't think its the OS that is causing my heart to race, or my legs to go into spasms, but the apt-get. That, that, is the one that truely causes my fear, my instincts to reach for a cross, and shield myself from the horror that befalls me. Apt-get, the mere sound of the word causes me to shake, my fingers to twitch, my mind to go into the whole "Flight or Fight" rehashing. The speaking of these words cause an involuntary action to raise my hands off the keyboard, and go to a safer place.

Only one thing, this can't be a horror movie, because in a horror movie, you can't have two evils. Apt-get is one of the evils, but its twin brother is dpkg. In a new twist, we have a "Freddie vs. Jason" horror movie here. With the horrors of apt-get, only dpkg can do as well. Where dpkg sounds like some cryptic acronym that when said backwords makes an incantation that raises all evil from the depths of the Earth. Hell hath no fury than apt-get and dpkg, alone, in a room, and free to roam as a command line interface program on your working system !

These two commands look innocent enough, like a cute child, playing with a toy, only when entered on a command line, only Marlin Brando could say "The horror, the horror, the horror", better. The child changes instantly into the Hell Spawn, Freddie with knife-hands weilded, or Jason with anything. You watch as your system is turned from a working, perfectly behaved child, into HELL FROZEN OVER. You expect GOD, or St. Peter, to be standing right next to your computer, going over the "book of its life", to determine if it is going into Heaven, or down into Hell. You would not be surprised to have a pastor show up at your front door, and want to perform "last rights" to your dead system.

With these two evils, apt-get and dpkg, I am seriously going to place a cross on my monitor, and possibly some garlic, and keep a few silver bullets in my desk drawer. Not to mention, I will not sleep, in fear that either these two commands will visit me in my sleep, or take over my body while I am sleeping, and then, kill my system. I will not allow anyoine who does any Voo-Doo near my system, in fear that they would put a spell of dissaster on my OS. I will go to church on a regular basis, praying that, these two commands do not find my system, and Holy water will be kept, in case of emergencies.

What, I think, is even more amazing than the "evilness" of these two commands, is the lack of intelligence, by my part, to continually keep getting myself into these situations. Like the cute girl in the horror movie, she keeps opening those doors, one after the other, each one having more and more fear behind them. Why? You would think, she would have more sense, knowing that, this door had evil behind it, the next door had evil behind it, maybe this door will have evil behind it, so I won't open it.... NAAAAAAAAAA, she opens it, and yes, again, evil is behind it. Someone who has bad luck with parachuting, probably, stops parachuting, but, do I? Nope. I continue to jump out of that plane, knowing, probably, that the parachute won't open, and after the fall, what do I do? I get right back into the plane to do it all over again. Smart.

I have heard, the best way to get over something, is to keep doing it, to get "desensitized" from it. You would think I would have become NUMB of apt-get, or its evil co-conspiritor dpkg, but I haven't, they only cause me more fear, now. Now, I really know them, how evil they really are, how evil there ways of destroying a computer, to cause a system to not only jump out of the plane, but to either make it forget its parachute, or to even pull the rip-cord. PURE EVIL. The kind of evil that will always exist, that will never grow weak, that can only get stronger with time, and nothing can either avoid, or kill it. Forever....

Now that I have enlightened you all of this evil, of this powerful evil, you may never look at these two CLI's the same, ever again. Why? Because "they" known "you" know now! So, be ever vigilant, ever on the gaurd, for they will attack when you least expect it...

Cuddles