Knoppix 6.7.0: A View from the Forest

[Forester]

Nice to have you back, Professor Forester.

Don't count on it.

Are you acquainted with GvR?

No. I've lived in Flanders (and can recommend it) but I never met anyone called Gilles van Ruymbeke.

... a new re-mastering thread I've started.

What yet another thread ? I haven't read all the others yet.

The long thread (that started on Knoppix 6.7.0 and wandered off topic) I read at times reminded me of the four blind men describing an elephant. I'd like to suggest that if you're going succeed in your efforts you will need to come up with a description that not only KK recognises as an elephant but that the great majority of Knoppix users, young and old, would recognise too.

And you should come up with the description before you try to make the elephant.

Too often (and I count myself among the guilty) folks go off and make something in the belief that when it is done it will be self-explanatory. Saves all that thinking, designing, explaining, and convincing that ought to go before the doing.

I think you need to define what you are doing before you start. A quick glance at your new thread and I see you've tried. Well done. But a second glance and I see it is all about 'how', not about, 'what' or even 'why'.

Am I making any sense ?

You start with:

Re-mastering will require many gigabytes to accomplish.

Oh.

Please don't give me any credit at all in your efforts. My effort was carefully construction NOT to require any external disk space. That was the only original contribution I made. The rest was plagiarised from elsewhere.

It was just another view of the elephant. Obviously not a popular one.

Also, hope you'll help me get my homework corrected ...

Could you explain the special properties you attribute to ntfs-3g ? At the moment I only see a stick with two wrong ends. I'm sure there is a ramble of thread somewhere I could read if I wanted to get really confused but that wouldn't really help you.

Ciao.

[utu]

And you should come up with the description before you try to make the elephant.

Too often (and I count myself among the guilty) folks go off and make something in the belief that when it is done it will be self-explanatory. Saves all that thinking, designing, explaining, and convincing that ought to go before the doing.

I think you need to define what you are doing before you start. A quick glance at your new thread and I see you've tried. Well done. But a second glance and I see it is all about 'how', not about, 'what' or even 'why'.

Am I making any sense ?

Greetings again, Forester

I was tempted to respond in kind and define some elephants, but
my quest is not that grand. I'm only asking for the addition of
two modest additions to the Knoppix menu. These two scripts would
use already built-in elements of Knoppix for the most part.

We all use the menu function 'Install KNOPPIX to flash disk' from
the Knoppix LiveCD Menu. Have you tried it from the LiveUSB menu?
That's another story. I want you to focus on this customer's
request for just a couple of NEW menu items.

One new LiveUSB menu choice, actually produce something useful for
an improved clone, which would create (1) a new-and-improved compressed
KNOPPIX file containing the net combined net contents of the source's
KNOPPIX file and the source's persistence file; and (2) a renewed 'empty'
persistence file. This product should be bootable.

The second LiveUSB menu choice would produce a similar LiveCD product,
but we will forego the persistence aspect (for now, anyway).

I don't personally care any more whether these results require additional
storage to PREPARE the magic for the LiveUSB. I still want the PRODUCT
to fit on a 2 Gb LiveUSB started initially from a LiveCD iso.
I want to make as good a use of the LiveUSB real estate as Klaus does
with the LiveCD real estate.

The new LiveCD from LiveUSB menu choice is to provide some belt-and-
suspenders back-up to tide us over those times we clobber our r/w
media we've come to rely on with our clumsiness. 'us' and 'our' are royal singular.

Your doremaster idea seems to be about as elegant an idea as I could ask
for. But I can't make it work.

[Forester]

Greetings again, Forester

Hi utu,

I quite liked your description (post #7, this thread) of what you want the first time I read it. It is a fair reflection of what I think we discussed way back when.

I don't know that others will understand it quite the same way. Some might not recognise it as 'remastering', some might wonder what is so special about this set of requirements. I seem to remember KK himself wondering why bother.

I still think you have a valid point to make but it needs to be able to made convincingly.

When I think of what is involved in remastering I see a 'selection' of what to include, 'assembling' what is selected, 'generating' a new image from the assembly and, of course, 'testing, testing, testing'. Others might see it differently - they might include publishing the new image, for example. I think the process is iterative and I'd see testing as continual, rather than something that is done at the end.

In the middle of all this, the 'generation' bit may not seem all that important but that was all we were really talking about. Perhaps our approach is a bit to simplistic. I don't think so but you would need to convince the skeptics.

You start with a working LiveUSB installation. You use synaptic to add a few packages and may be remove a few others. That covers 'selection'. You've also covered 'assembly': everything is in your persistent store. You've been playing with the new packages as you've installed them. That covers 'testing' too (for all practical purposes). So all you need is the 'generation' bit and that isn't something you can do with a click or two of the mouse.

This may not be 'remastering' as KK knows it but it seems to be a reasonable scenario (at least) for the 'ordinary' user's first attempts at remastering. I think there is a case of providing a simple (to use) tool for this.

Do this make sense ? Is there any point in my continuing ? It only gets harder from here on.

The next questions you might be asked as about the scope the method covers (like is this LiveUSB only ?). There is no problem with there being limitations but it helps if you know what they are. Open discussion may help widen the scope at little cost and bring others on board.

P.S. Still interested in the special properties of ntfs for remastering.

[utu]

I never met anyone called Gilles van Ruymbeke.

You might be interested in this thread:

http://www.knoppix.net/forum/threads...ight=ruymbeke:

Ciao.