how do i run Grub on Knoppix 3.7

[papwilly]

i did a Hd install of Knoppix 3.7 but i don't like LILO. is there a way i can install and use Grub instead? Is there a way i can change the boot screen for LILO? i see there are other bitmaps i can use but i don't know how to do it.

[UnderScore]

A good recent guide to grub - http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/grub/grub.htm

[ruymbeke]

i did a Hd install of Knoppix 3.7 but i don't like LILO. is there a way i can install and use Grub instead? Is there a way i can change the boot screen for LILO? i see there are other bitmaps i can use but i don't know how to do it.

Have also a look at these:
Windows Partition PMI: http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Win_Partition
ISO boot from FAT/NTFS/USB (GRUB.exe, grldr from boot.ini): http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...1796&start=180

[jmort]

Have also a look at these:
Windows Partition PMI: http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Win_Partition

I have tried to perform this version of a Poor Mans Install, but it seems there are problems loading GRUB. The screen clears and an error message is diisplayed that says :

GRLDR is compressed

The machine hangs from there. It is a Dell Inspiron 3800 with a 10GB hard drive. One partition is about 9GB and contains WinXP NTFS and all my files, the other partition is about 1gB and is formatted FAT32 to work with KNOPPIX. According to this version of the poor mans install, KNOPPIX will boot from its ISO image on the NTFS partition and use the FAT32 partition to save files and transfer between Windows and Linux.

Any suggestions?

i did a Hd install of Knoppix 3.7 but i don't like LILO. is there a way i can install and use Grub instead? Is there a way i can change the boot screen for LILO? i see there are other bitmaps i can use but i don't know how to do it.

I am assuming you are able to boot using LILO? How did you perform the install? Are you having the same problem with gRUB that i am having?

Thanks,
james

[ruymbeke]

Have also a look at these: Windows Partition PMI: http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Win_Partition

I have tried to perform this version of a Poor Mans Install, but it seems there are problems loading GRUB. The screen clears and an error message is diisplayed that says : GRLDR is compressed
The machine hangs from there. It is a Dell Inspiron 3800 with a 10GB hard drive. One partition is about 9GB and contains WinXP NTFS and all my files, the other partition is about 1gB and is formatted FAT32 to work with KNOPPIX. According to this version of the poor mans install, KNOPPIX will boot from its ISO image on the NTFS partition and use the FAT32 partition to save files and transfer between Windows and Linux. Any suggestions?

Did you just copy the grldr of the grubd.zip into your ntfs root directory and udate your boot.ini ? Did you try the bootgrub entry in the boot.ini (and also copy the bootgrub file) ? Is the NTFS your first partition on the first disk ? "GRLDR is compressed" I have never seen this error before...

i did a Hd install of Knoppix 3.7 but i don't like LILO. is there a way i can install and use Grub instead? Is there a way i can change the boot screen for LILO? i see there are other bitmaps i can use but i don't know how to do it.

I am assuming you are able to boot using LILO? How did you perform the install? Are you having the same problem with gRUB that i am having? Thanks, james

Since you have a FAT32 partition, you can also boot dos from it using a boot.ini entry. Then from dos you can run either grub.exe or loadlin.exe with the right kernel parameters to start the knoppix iso from either the ntfs or the fat32 partition. But you still need the minirt26_ntfs.gz file to have the bootfrom= to work properly even if you boot from the fat32.
Good Luck, Gilles

[jmort]

ruymbeke,

I recognize your alias from the WinPartition instructions; thus, I assume that you are the one to talk to about this.

Notes: -With Win2000 computers you may add an alternate boot option in the boot.ini file: c:\bootgrub="Start Grub (old method)" -To work with Windows 9x copy GRUB.EXE from "RootOfNTFS" folder to C:\ then edit your CONFIG.SYS file adding the line SHELL=GRUB.EXE (to return to booting to Windows 9x you will have to edit config.sys again as grub.exe will not allow booting to Windows/Msdos AFAIK).

The above is directly from the WinPartition instructions. The link is:
http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Win_Partition

Now, that was a good question to ask wiith regards to the bootgrub addition to boot.ini. We may be getting somewhere here. The above instructions state that bootgrub is to be added to boot.ini when using *Windows 2000*. Now, I do realize that XP is based off of 2000, but this is not the same as the equivalence of the two operating systems. This leads to further questions. Am I to assume that I am to add bootgrub to the boot.ini file to my XP installation. If this is the case then either one of two things has occurred in regards to the above quoted instructions:

1. In my ignorance, I was supposed to assume that Windows 2000 and XP are interchangeable

2. There is some ambiguity in the above instructions that should be dealt with by anyone who has authorization to do so. For example, adding the specific OS's that the bootgrub addition applies to, beyond Windows 2000, of course. Correcting this omission will save countless hours of searching forums and documentation if it turns out that this does indeed fix my problem.

However, I am quite interested in the thought of booting from DOS on the FAT32 partition, as this sounds fairly simple except for one small issue. Again, this issue may be related to my ignorance, as I am new to this: From my understanding of operating systems beyond Windows Millenium, there is no DOS. Since I am running XP, I am assuming that I do not have DOS. My question is this: Is there something that I am missing from your instructions of booting from FAT32 with DOS? Or do I need to somehow obtain a copy of DOS in order to accomplish this?

Where do I place the files on the FAT32 partition. You mentioned that I only need minirt26_ntfs.gz and grub.exe. Is there a special directory they need to go in or can they go into the root of the FAT32 partition?

Did you just copy the grldr of the grubd.zip into your ntfs root directory and udate your boot.ini ? Did you try the bootgrub entry in the boot.ini (and also copy the bootgrub file) ?

To answer these questions. I copied grldr to c:\ as instructed. I updated the boot.ini so that the last line read: c:\grldr="start grub" as instructed. However, the bootgrub addition was omitted due to one of the above 2 listed reasons.

Sidenotes:
1. There is no grub.exe in my c:\ directory. I am assuming this is ok for the nTFS boot
2. NTFS drives have the ability to be compressed, and I set mine to compress data upon initial install of XP. I only have a 10GB harddrive. One possibility for the compression error is this fact, just in case anyone else is having this problem and feels bold enough to try uncompressing their drive if it is compressed.

Thank you very much for your responses to these questions! I have not only learned a great deal about Knoppix from these forums, but also I have learned a lot in regards to my own operating system! Thanks again!

P.S. I have read enough of the forum to know that you and others have put a ton of your time into this subject, and it is greatly appreciated. So, please understand that I hold everyone in the highest respect. I am merely pointing out areas that need improvement so that others may benefit from this knowledge. It appears that the ruymbeke's file package in the Winpartition link is missing GRUB.EXE, which I believe needs to be in the root directory of NTFS if the c:\bootgrub option is to be used. Thanks again.

[ruymbeke]

...I was supposed to assume that Windows 2000 and XP are interchangeable

Yes and No. The boot principle of XP and 2000 is similar but not identical. Both are using a ntldr and boot.ini file to boot but as far as I know, the ntldr files are actually different. So grldr can be used for XP (bootgrub is actually embedded in the first blocs of grldr) and an alternate bootgrub is required to load grldr for 2000.

... I am quite interested in the thought of booting from DOS on the FAT32 partition... From my understanding of operating systems beyond Windows Millenium, there is no DOS. Since I am running XP, I am assuming that I do not have DOS. My question is this: Is there something that I am missing from your instructions of booting from FAT32 with DOS? Or do I need to somehow obtain a copy of DOS in order to accomplish this?

Yes you can boot from your fat32 partition using either your boot.ini (by adding a d:\="Dos, Win98/ME...") or using grub (and add an entry in your menu.lst like this (assuming that your fat32 is on disk0 partition 1, 0 being ntfs):
title Win 98 from (hd0,1)
chainloader (hd0,1)+1
boot
But before this will work, you shoud obviously have install a dos filesystem in your fat32 partition using the dos sys.com program. You can find a lot of dos boot disk on the net. I actually have the dos files in the Root_Of_USB of my grubd.zip. And the HPUSBFW.EXE program can be used to re-format a usb dongle with the required dos files and also make the dongle bootable, which is not that obvious ! Once booted from the usb dongle, you can sys.com your fat32 partition (I am sorry I did not include the sys.com file in my grubd.zip but here it is: http://s119307663.onlinehome.us/SYS.COM ). BTW, if you do not have a floppy drive you can still use grub and memdisk to boot from a floppy image file (.img or .ima) and format your fat32 from there (see the menu.lst in the \Root_Of_NTFS\BOOT\GRUB directory of my grubd.zip to load win311.img)

... You mentioned that I only need minirt26_ntfs.gz and grub.exe. Is there a special directory they need to go in or can they go into the root of the FAT32 partition?

The location of the kernel and initrd file are defined by the menu.lst file and they can be where ever you like, you just need to update the path. The menu.lst is searched by grub first in /boot/grub then in the root of each partition/drives until one menu.lst can be read and interpreted.

... NTFS drives have the ability to be compressed, and I set mine to compress data upon initial install of XP. I only have a 10GB harddrive. One possibility for the compression error is this fact, just in case anyone else is having this problem and feels bold enough to try uncompressing their drive if it is compressed.

To be honest, I never tried that and I can bet that grub cannot handle this compression at this time. Sorry...
So the best option I can see in your specific case of a compressed ntfs partition would be to boot dos from your fat32 partition (as discussed previously) and from dos you will run grub.exe (or loadlin.exe if you prefer lilo). Even though it looks like a little bit complicated, it works and all this can be executed very fast at boot time.

...It appears that the ruymbeke's file package in the Winpartition link is missing GRUB.EXE, which I believe needs to be in the root directory of NTFS if the c:\bootgrub option is to be used. Thanks again.

No, grub.exe is in the GRUB.BIN directory of my grubd.zip. It is only required to boot from dos. I use it with my usb dongle, boot floppy disk, or from fat16/32 partitions.

Thank you very much for your responses to these questions! I have not only learned a great deal about Knoppix from these forums, but also I have learned a lot in regards to my own operating system! Thanks again!

My pleasure. Hope this will help.
Best Regards, Gilles

[jmort]

Okay, apparently hitting escape in the middle of a post is a bad thing.

Let's try this again...

Gilles,

I think there may be a problem with the link where I got grubd.zip. Was there a time when you went and updated the link because something was missing? If so, could I have gone there by mistake and downloaded a bad version of grubd.zip? I am sorry, but I do not have GRUB.EXE in any of the folders including grub.bin, unless of course GRUB.EXE was renamed to something else??? Also, there are no DOS commands in root_of_usb or any other folder included in the zip.

Don't worry about doing anything more for me just yet, as there are two things I note:

1. From past experience, in order to run a dos command, your DOS version must match the version of the DOS file you are trying to run. Since all I have right now is an XP command prompt, I have a feeling that SYS.COM will not work.

2. Before I make a request for your updated version of grubd.zip, I will first attempt to use an old Windows ME cd to try to accomplish installing DOS, in which case I should have my own copy of SYS.COM. It probably wouldn't hurt to take a peek at the link to the Winpartition install and check out the grubd.zip for missing files, as this could be where the problem lies (again I could have stumbled on a broken link, or someone else may have replaced your file by accident, etc)

http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Win_Partition

click on ruymbeke's files in the first step and it will prompt you to download grubd.zip. And I will feel really stupid if it turns out they are actually there

I'll get back to you. Thanks Gilles for all your help and time on this subject.

James

UPDATE: GILLES I AM SORRY I JUST LOOKED AT THE ZIP AND IT APPEARS THE FILES ARE THERE. I will extract them again. I do not know what I did the first time

[jmort]

Update:

Okay, Here is what I have found.

1. I will probably need to reformat my FAT32 partition. Currently, it is formatted as a logical drive because I did not know as much three days ago that I know now. This should not bee a big deal, as nothing is currently on that partition.

2. Windows Millenium has no SYS.COM command and no way to install just DOS from what I could tell. Furthermore, I do not feel comfortable installing ME on a system with a stable copy of XP running. In addition, the SYS.COM file that I must have got from a link on the forum does not work with XP, just as I suspected.

3. There are two options which I am considering.
I. Download a copy of freeDos from the net, install to the FAT32 partition and boot it from the boot.ini file, which by now is a procedure that I am VERY familiar with. From there, hopefully GRUB.EXE will work properly.

II. Substitute LILO for GRUB, which may require more research. It appears that my system does not like grub. I have no clue as to why except for the hypothesis that it is due to the NTFS drive being compressed. Uncompressing it is not an option, as i don't think there is enough space to do so. Has anyone had success using LILO instead of GRUB?? There are other bootloaders I have found on the net, but installing a bootloader is like allowing someone access to the foundation of your home with demolition equipment; thus, I could be setting myself up for failure by using a no-name bootloader. Also, do you think that FreeDOS will substitute well for MS-DOS? In my experience sometimes the free stuff is better than the capitalist stuff.

I think option #I seems simpler, as the procedure involves steps that I am familiar with, whereas LILO is very foreign to me. However, I think I will take the reat of the day off from this stuff and try to accomplish finishing a school project involving the Traveling Salesman Problem and the Edge Assembly Crossover Operator.

Thanks again!
James

[ruymbeke]

... I will probably need to reformat my FAT32 partition...

Why that ? You just need to install a win98se dos system. ME is not really apropriate since msft removed dos from it even though you can put it back, it is some kind of a hack. This is exactly why I suggested you to use a USB dongle: format the usb dongle with the tools I gave you, boot from it, use the sys.com I gave you in the previous link to install the dos 98se into your fat32 from the usb dongle, and now you can use grub.exe to boot various OS, including XP, Linux... But don't even try sys.com from windows. I can make a 98se dos floppy disk boot image if you really need to.

... Download a copy of freeDos from the net, install to the FAT32 partition and boot it from the boot.ini file, which by now is a procedure that I am VERY familiar with. From there, hopefully GRUB.EXE will work properly.

That will work just as good as the win98se dos (dos 7.1 or 7.10), but do not load emm386 before starting grub.

... Substitute LILO for GRUB, which may require more research. It appears that my system does not like grub. I have no clue as to why except for the hypothesis that it is due to the NTFS drive being compressed. Uncompressing it is not an option, as i don't think there is enough space to do so. Has anyone had success using LILO instead of GRUB?...

Well I have spend quite some time with both lilo and grub, and with my experience I like grub much better. Easier to install, to use, and to repair. Grub is much more powerfull (network boot, floppy/disk image boot, cd boot, chainload, ...) Lilo has a lot of limitations but one thing I like with loadlin.exe (lilo for dos) is that it can go back to dos if the boot fails. I have tried a couple of other bootloaders, each one of them have some goods and bads, but grub has my preference.
PS: the ntfs compression is only an issue to start grub from the XP bootloader ntldr. Once grub started from grub.exe via dos boot from your fat32, or from the disk/partition mbr, or from floppy or a usb dongle, grub can start and load everyting except files stored in a compressed ntfs partition, reason why you need to store your kernel, inird and iso file in your fat32 partition. And I can bet that lilo and other bootloaders will suffer the same problem. And btw, grub is the only bootloader I know which is capable to load files (like the kernel) from a (non compressed) ntfs partition.
Regards, Gilles