HELP: wired yes, wireless no

[tributary]

An update:

I managed to get an IP address. I did this using 'ifconfig eth0 up' which put eth0 on the ifconfig list, since it wasn't there before. Then, I used '/sbin/pump -i eth0' and that got me an IP address.

But we're still not talking to the internet. We're not even talking to the router, though the router lists the computer on the DHCP clients list, so I'm somewhat at a loss of what to do from here.

[Harry Kuhman]

An update:

I managed to get an IP address. I did this using 'ifconfig eth0 up' which put eth0 on the ifconfig list, since it wasn't there before. Then, I used '/sbin/pump -i eth0' and that got me an IP address.

But we're still not talking to the internet. We're not even talking to the router, though the router lists the computer on the DHCP clients list, so I'm somewhat at a loss of what to do from here.

You did this with your wireless connection, or did you switch to a wired one? I can't imagine that only the above steps were enough for the wireless connection that you were talking about; so if you are still trying to get a wireless connection working I would suggest that you spell out exactly all of the steps you take starting from booting the disc in the order you do them. And it wouldn't be a bad idea to let people know what make and model of both NIC and router that you have. And did you make any settings in the router to limit access by MAC address? (If so, disable them.)

Additional things that you can do from here to learn more include trying to ping the router, trying to ping another local computer, and trying to ping the IP address that the router claims to have assigned to the Knoppix system from another local system. And to really get low level and see what is happening betwen the NIC and the router, run ethereal and capture the packets (yes, it's included on the disc).

.... though the router lists the computer on the DHCP clients list, so I'm somewhat at a loss of what to do from here.

Are you sure that the router is making this entry in the DHCP table after Knoppix boots and that it wasn't just left there from some time in the past when the computer was last on the network? Is it showing a host name of Knoppix, for example, or do you see it not on the router before booting Knoppix and then show up after booting Knoppix?

[tributary]

An update:

I managed to get an IP address. I did this using 'ifconfig eth0 up' which put eth0 on the ifconfig list, since it wasn't there before. Then, I used '/sbin/pump -i eth0' and that got me an IP address.

But we're still not talking to the internet. We're not even talking to the router, though the router lists the computer on the DHCP clients list, so I'm somewhat at a loss of what to do from here.

You did this with your wireless connection, or did you switch to a wired one? I can't imagine that only the above steps were enough for the wireless connection that you were talking about; so if you are still trying to get a wireless connection working I would suggest that you spell out exactly all of the steps you take starting from booting the disc in the order you do them. And it wouldn't be a bad idea to let people know what make and model of both NIC and router that you have. And did you make any settings in the router to limit access by MAC address? (If so, disable them.)

I know, I was pretty surprised myself. All wireless. I'd have to head to another room to use a wired connection. The computer I'm typing on connects wirelessly. I'll reboot and try to duplicate my results momentarily. My NIC is a Linksys ver.3 Instant Wireless Network PC Card, model WPC11. My router is also a Linksys, Wireless B. The laptop is a secondhand Compaq Prosignia 150 that I got cheap four years ago. It's got an installation of debian linux on it that my ex put on it, and for whatever reason, it doesn't boot properly any more. But since I lost the ex and kept the laptop, I can't make him fix it.

Additional things that you can do from here to learn more include trying to ping the router, trying to ping another local computer, and trying to ping the IP address that the router claims to have assigned to the Knoppix system from another local system. And to really get low level and see what is happening betwen the NIC and the router, run ethereal and capture the packets (yes, it's included on the disc).

.... though the router lists the computer on the DHCP clients list, so I'm somewhat at a loss of what to do from here.

Are you sure that the router is making this entry in the DHCP table after Knoppix boots and that it wasn't just left there from some time in the past when the computer was last on the network? Is it showing a host name of Knoppix, for example, or do you see it not on the router before booting Knoppix and then show up after booting Knoppix?

It is showing a host name of Knoppix, and this is the first time this computer has ever connected to this router, so I know it wasn't a ghost. Brand new router. I did try to ping the router. I've refreshed the table, and it's gone now that the laptop is off.

Okay, rebooted the laptop. The NIC has two lights, and the power light is on, but the Link light is blinking.

I get a Root terminal. Ask for 'ifconfig.' Only lists loopback, no eth0. Ask for 'iwconfig.' Finds it. Run wlcardconfig. Hit enter a lot. Put in my ssid, WEP key.

Now I run KWiFiManager from the KNOPPIX -> Network menu. It's finding the router, complete with mac address. Very clever. No IP address.

Back to the Root terminal. '/sbin/ifconfig eth0 up' and now eth0 shows up on 'ifconfig.' Of course, I can't duplicate it, and I'm not getting an IP address with '/sbin/pump -i eth0' now. Getting instead 'operation failed,' which makes me wonder what sort of magical interim step I did to acquire an IP address.

Let's see. Earlier I tried adjusting the settings in KWiFiManager, but that didn't seem to help. Now it's telling me it's got a weak signal. I'm not sure what magic I worked to get an IP last time.

...

Well, I did some stuff manually, based on a script the ex wrote me awhile ago, and I've got an IP again. I did 'iwconfig eth0 mode managed' then 'iwconfig eth0 enc restricted' then 'iwconfig eth0 key <10 digit key>' then 'ifconfig eth0 up' then 'pump -i eth0' and BAM. IP address.

I ping the router... 100% packet loss. I ping the laptop from this machine... 100% packet loss. I don't know how to use Ethereal, but I've got it, so if you can tell me what information you want from it, I'll see what I can do.

[Harry Kuhman]

It's been ages since I got one (and only one) of my wireless cards to work. Sorry to admit, I don't recall all the exact steps. But I'm pretty sure I didn't use pump, as I have no good understanding what it does. I think I used something like wlanconfig, and gave a wep key and an ssid on the same command line. I'm hoping that someone that connects frequently with wireless can join in and give better information. It does sound like you are very close and Knoppix is indeed recognizing the hardware (it seems to not do that about 90% of the time with wireless hadware).

As to ethereal, it's as much art as it is science. I doubt if I can talk you through discovering much remotely. But if you know a bit about packets (or want to learn) you can watch ethernet traffic with it and see all the packets. If you use it on a working wired system you should see the normal way the packets are exchanged. This would include the early setup steps like speed negoiation, the DHCP configuration, ARP (address resolution protocol) exchanges, and normal TCP/IP and UDP traffic. You can watch a ping on a working system and see the outgoing packet and the response. I don't know where the problem may lie so it is hard to speculate what packets will look right and which will be improperly formed or simply missing all together. But spotting how far the system gets in the DHCP setup (if it doesn't complete) or seeing if the transmitted packet makes sense (like having the right ssid).

Also, you mentioned setting the WEP key. Unless you are in a very dense high traffic area I would try a quick test without WEP enabled on the router and no wep key in the NIC setup. If you are in an area where you consider this risky, do it anyway but disconnect the modem and other computers from the router, that way a hacker who does gain acess will not be able to do anything with it. A lot of wireless problems seem to be related to using the right key in the right form that the software expects, and this does sound a bit like a WEP issue (I don't think DHCP uses WEP which would explain why that would work but you couldn't send any data or commands, even a ping). Once you have it working without WEP then turn wep back on and try getting the systems to agree on the wep key. I'm also not sure what type of a wep key you are using, I generally find hex codes work better than strings. 10 hex digits would be a "64 bit" wep key. If you're going to use wep you might as well use the longer "128 bit" / 26 hex digt string (usually shown as 13 pairs) . Not that wep is very secure but the longer key is more secure than the short one. And, of course, wep encrypts the data portion of the packet, so if you are using ethereal to try to see and understand the packets it could be helpful to turn encryption off while trying to read the packets.

[tributary]

I have WEP turned on mostly to keep my neighbors off of my network. There's nothing worse than someone connecting their infected machine to your nice clean network and borking all of your machines. I use 10 hex digits because phone numbers are 10 digits long, and thus, when my sister comes over with her laptop and wants to connect, I tell her that the key is her cellphone number. Easy.

So I turned it off, spent a moment arguing with the NIC on /this/ computer, which is notoriously grumpy about any change in network, and then rebooted the laptop. Wireless ran immediately. No song and dance. Just open KWiFiMonitor, had an IP address. Open Firefox, had Google.

So you're right. It's the WEP. But now how to fix that?

[Harry Kuhman]

So you're right. It's the WEP. But now how to fix that?

Be very careful that the wep key is being understood as hex at both ends, and that both sides are using the same size key (even if it is 64 bit). And just try retyping the key on both sides, just in case there is a simple error and you are not seeing it. Or try making the key something different (if you're not concerned about security, try all D's or all E's, which unlike the 0-9 digits pretty much have to be hex. Or even try a 13 pair key on each end and see if that works (just repeat your sister's cell number 2.6 times if you want it easy to remember). Good luck, let us know what it turns out to be.

[thetroyv]

alrgiht but we are trying mainly to get it to work with WPA as WPA is newer isnt it?
it almost seems that knoppix doesnt support it at all as all thier tools seem to be WEP oriented.

the man page was a little confusing... anybody know if iwconfig supports wpa?

thanks for all the help so far