ISO boot from FAT/NTFS/USB (GRUB.exe, grldr from boot.ini)

[ruymbeke]

Hello,
Please find below the link to the updated minirt_ntfs.gz
required to boot Knoppix 4.0 DVD Official Release
from the iso file on a NTFS partition.
(also required to boot from the iso file on a ext2/3 partition)
http://s119307663.onlinehome.us/kno401.zip
The wiki page: http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Win_Partition has been updated
The official name for the iso file having a lowercase ".iso" please do not forget tu update your menu.lst
bootfrom=.../boot/knoppix.40/*.iso (cf attached menu.lst in the kno40dvd.zip)
(Previous Linux Tag knoppix 4.0 DVD was using .../boot/knoppix.40/*.ISO)
Please give me some feedback.
Cheers, Gilles

[BenGoodrich]

Hi,

I got the official Knoppix DVD to boot from a NTFS drive (thanks ruymbeke!).

Now, I am interested in the experimental attempts to create a persistent home on a NTFS drive. The wiki page referenced above mentions Captive, but www.knoppix.com mentions something called Linux-NTFS. I have looked at the project websites, but can someone who knows more about this discuss the pros and cons of each? Also, Klaus' website says that instructions and tools for Linux-NTFS are on the physical DVD. For the benefit of those of us without DVD burners, can someone post a link to these instructions and tools (or are they just the same as those on the Linux-NTFS website)?

Thanks,
Ben

[ruymbeke]

Hi, I got the official Knoppix DVD to boot from a NTFS drive (thanks ruymbeke!).
You are welcome. Thank you for the feedback.


Now, I am interested in the experimental attempts to create a persistent home on a NTFS drive. The wiki page referenced above mentions Captive, but www.knoppix.com mentions something called Linux-NTFS. I have looked at the project websites, but can someone who knows more about this discuss the pros and cons of each? Also, Klaus' website says that instructions and tools for Linux-NTFS are on the physical DVD. For the benefit of those of us without DVD burners, can someone post a link to these instructions and tools (or are they just the same as those on the Linux-NTFS website)? Thanks, Ben
Captive-ntfs worked fine for me in the past but it requires the microsoft xp kernel drivers to be copied to linux using the linux ntfs read only drivers. Basically you need a valid microsoft nt/xp licence to use these drivers under linux. As I understand Linux-ntfs is a attempt to make a native linux driver with a reliabe write access to ntfs partitions without using any microsoft code. I don't know much about other differences between captive-ntfs and linux-ntfs but if you are running knoppix from the iso/ntfs, you can access the content of ce cd/dvd as if you would have it on a physical drive from the /cdrom. You could also use some windows tools like http://www.isobuster.com/ to read the content of the iso file. You will find inside the KNOPPIX\linux-ntfs\FOR-DEVELOPERS.txt file the following content. Hope this helps.
Best Regards,
Gilles

LINUX-NTFS DEVELOPMENT SNAPSHOT
===============================

This version of KNOPPIX contains preliminary support for writing to
NTFS filesystems using the "filesystem in userspace" module [1],
plus a current (16-08-2005) snapshot of the linux-ntfs development
[2].

Both are preinstalled on this CD. Note that a "normal" mount of
an ntfs partition (by clicking on a partition in KDE, for example)
uses the safe version of the "read-only" linux-ntfs kernel module,
which has very limited but safe overwrite-capabilities, and most
certainly will NOT destroy your NTFS partitions accidentially.

In order to test and use the extended write capabilities of the
developer snapshot of linux-ntfs, you will have to follow the
commandline instructions below.

DISCLAIMER: THIS DEVELOPER'S SNAPSHOT VERSION OF LINUX-NTFS IS
EXPERIMENTAL AND YET INCOMPLETE. IT IS STILl EXPERIMENTAL SOFTWARE.
USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. MOST LIKELY, SOMETHING WILL BREAK IF YOU
USE THIS SOFTWARE WITHOUT CAUTION. KNOPPER.NET CAN NOT BE HELD
LIABLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES FOR DAMAGE TO HARDWARE OR
SOFTWARE, LOST DATA, OR OTHER DIRECT OR INDIRECT DAMAGE RESULTING
FROM THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE. IF THESE CONDITIONS ARE INACCEPTABLE
TO YOU, DON'T USE THIS SOFTWARE.

After that being said, here are the instructions. It is assumed that
you do this as "knoppix" user from the live filesystem. Make sure you
have a backup of all important data on your computer before.

# Step 1: Load the "Filesystem in Userspace" module.
sudo modprobe fuse

# Step 2: Make NTFS partition (example: /dev/hdd1) accessible for
# unprivileged users.
sudo chmod 666 /dev/hdd1

# Step 3: Create a mountpoint in your user home directory.
mkdir $HOME/ntfs

# Step 4: Mount the partition read/write
ntfsmount $HOME/ntfs -o dev=/dev/hdd1

You should now be able to access the content of the NTFS partition
at $HOME/ntfs. Don't forget to

# Step 5:
fusermount -u $HOME/ntfs

after you are done experimenting.

Please address technical contributions (debugging output, patches,
corrections) to the NTFS development team [2], but it does not make
much sense at this point to ask usability questions like "when
will official NTFS write support be in the kernel?" or "why is
NTFS so difficult", at this early stage.

Resources:
[1] http://fuse.sourceforge.net/ Filesystem in Userspace
[2] http://linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net/ Linux-NTFS Project

[BenGoodrich]

I got the official Knoppix DVD to boot from a NTFS drive (thanks ruymbeke!).


... but now I can't seem to replicate my success on the other laptop (Toshiba Portege 3505). I think the only differences are that the Toshiba has a FAT32 format on its C:\ drive and that I need to change sda1 to hda1. But my impression from reading the previous posts on this thread is that the procedure should work exactly the same when everything is stored on a FAT32; am I wrong about that? I have tried all permutations of hda vs sda and played with all the usual laptop-oriented cheatcodes (even though I think they were designed for CD-rom booting), but every time it loads the kernel, displays the welcome message, searches for USB / firewire, enables dma (if I left that option in) on hda, then says it can't mount the .iso and drops me to the shell. So, it would seem that I have a typo in the bootfrom cheatcode, but I just copied and pasted from my working laptop (and have checked it like 20 times).

Here is the relevant part of my menu.list, which I believe should be working:

kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.40/linux bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.40/KNOPPIX4.iso
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.40/minirt_ntfs.gz
boot

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Ben

[ruymbeke]

...
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.40/linux bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.40/KNOPPIX4.iso
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.40/minirt_ntfs.gz
boot
It should work the same way on ntfs, fat16/32 or ext2/3. Sda is for scsi or scsi assimilated devices like usb, raid controllers... and hda is for regular ide channels. One typical error is that the knoppix filename has a different case for the ".iso" than the one referred in the menu.lst:
KNOPPIX_V4.0-2005-06-08-LINUXTAG2005-DVD-DE.ISO ==> bootfrom=/dev/sda1/boot/knoppix.40/*.ISO (uppercase *.ISO)
KNOPPIX_V4.0DVD-2005-08-16-EN.iso ==> bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.401/*.iso (lowercase *.iso)
Please also remember that you can use the interactive command line of grub to debug your config: the "e" key for Edit the menu and the "c" key for Command line. And even though you want to boot knoppix from the iso file being on a fat partition, you still need the inird_ntfs.gz ramdisk file. The 4.0 Linuxtag and official Knoppix 4.01 version require a different inird_ntfs.gz file: http://s119307663.onlinehome.us/kno40.zip (LinuxTag) and http://s119307663.onlinehome.us/kno401.zip (Official release)
Hope this help,
Gilles

[BenGoodrich]

Hi ruymbeke,

Thanks again for the script and for bearing with me on what is probably a stupid mistake on my part. But ...



It should work the same way on ntfs, fat16/32 or ext2/3. Sda is for scsi or scsi assimilated devices like usb, raid controllers... and hda is for regular ide channels. One typical error is that the knoppix filename has a different case for the ".iso" than the one referred in the menu.lst:
KNOPPIX_V4.0-2005-06-08-LINUXTAG2005-DVD-DE.ISO ==> bootfrom=/dev/sda1/boot/knoppix.40/*.ISO (uppercase *.ISO)
KNOPPIX_V4.0DVD-2005-08-16-EN.iso ==> bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.401/*.iso (lowercase *.iso)
Please also remember that you can use the interactive command line of grub to debug your config: the "e" key for Edit the menu and the "c" key for Command line. And even though you want to boot knoppix from the iso file being on a fat partition, you still need the inird_ntfs.gz ramdisk file. The 4.0 Linuxtag and official Knoppix 4.01 version require a different inird_ntfs.gz file: http://s119307663.onlinehome.us/kno40.zip (LinuxTag) and http://s119307663.onlinehome.us/kno401.zip (Official release)


Here is a paste of C:\boot\knoppix.40, containing the renamed DVD called KNOPPIX4.iso now, the linux, and the minirt_ntfs.gz. The three file sizes indicate the ones pertaining to official release, but I never even downloaded the ones pertaining to the Linuxtag release.

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>cd c:\boot\knoppix.40\

C:\boot\knoppix.40>dir
Volume in drive C has no label.
Volume Serial Number is 1E3E-1B02

Directory of C:\boot\knoppix.40

08/20/2005 05:17 PM <DIR> .
08/20/2005 05:17 PM <DIR> ..
08/20/2005 04:07 AM 95,779 configs.tbz
08/20/2005 04:07 AM 462 knoppix.sh
08/16/2005 08:05 AM 1,565,429 linux
08/17/2005 10:53 PM 2,245,823 minirt_ntfs.gz
08/20/2005 11:51 PM 34,094 KNOPPIX-CHANGELOG.txt
08/21/2005 03:14 PM 9,656 knoppix-cheatcodes.txt
08/21/2005 03:14 PM 260,219 packages-dvd.txt
08/21/2005 03:14 PM 68 KNOPPIX_V4.0DVD-2005-08-16-EN.iso.md5
08/21/2005 03:14 PM 304 KNOPPIX_V4.0DVD-2005-08-16-EN.iso.md5.asc

08/21/2005 03:14 PM 76 KNOPPIX_V4.0DVD-2005-08-16-EN.iso.sha1
08/21/2005 03:14 PM 312 KNOPPIX_V4.0DVD-2005-08-16-EN.iso.sha1.asc
08/21/2005 03:14 PM 3,324,309,504 KNOPPIX4.iso
12 File(s) 3,328,521,726 bytes
2 Dir(s) 4,623,073,280 bytes free

C:\boot\knoppix.40>

And here is a paste of my menu.lst, with bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.40/KNOPPIX4.iso. The line starting with kernel is all on one line in the file but wrapped here.

#######################################
# GvR August 17th 2005
color black/cyan yellow/cyan
timeout=15
default=1

title Return to previous menu
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
chainloader +1
boot

title Knoppix 4.0 DVD Official Release from ISO
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.40/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=0 nomce quiet bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.40/KNOPPIX4.iso noprompt dma screen=1024x768 unionfs knoppix_home=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.40 myconf=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.40
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.40/minirt_ntfs.gz
boot

I am sure it is supposed to be hda1, but I tried it replacing all the hda1 with sda1 just in case I was crazy. And I am sure it is in the first (only) hard disk and first partition because it finds the kernel before dropping me to the limited shell. And the only differences in the setups between my Thinkpad (where the hard drive boot is working) and this Toshiba is that the Thinkpad has a scsi hard drive (so sda1 instead of hda1) with a NTFS format while the Toshiba has ide with FAT32.

So, I am stumped, but perhaps the following is related: On both laptops, when I type "c" in the GRUB menu to get a command line, and then type find FILENAME, it does not find KNOPPIX4.iso, minirt_ntfs.gz, or any other FILENAME that I know to be on the hard drive. But, obviously this quirk is not an obstacle to NTFS-booting in the Thinkpad case.

Anyway, if it is a typo in the menu.lst statement, I have stared at it too many times to find it. The only cheatcode that takes effect before it tries to find the KNOPPIX4.iso is dma, and on the Toshiba it says "Enabling dma: hda" right before it fails to find the KNOPPIX4.iso. I tried it without the dma cheatcode but that didn't solve the problem. The only other thing that comes to mind is that the .iso might be corrupted, since I downloaded it in two sessions, but BitTornado says it ended up okay. I also BitTorrented the German .iso and met the same fate. Hard disk corruption is also a possibility, although I can boot Windows.

Ben

[ruymbeke]

... So, I am stumped, but perhaps the following is related: On both laptops, when I type "c" in the GRUB menu to get a command line, and then type find FILENAME, it does not find KNOPPIX4.iso, minirt_ntfs.gz, or any other FILENAME that I know to be on the hard drive. But, obviously this quirk is not an obstacle to NTFS-booting in the Thinkpad case... Ben
After enterring the grub command line, you get a list of the drives and partitions by typing something like: "kernel (" + the "tab" key for autocompletion, then enter the drive you want and press "tab" again for the autocompletion of the partitions and so on to browse the tree of directories and files. This is a nice way to verify the path and filenames. You can also run a md5 check to verify the iso integrity using http://www.md5summer.org/ under windows. Besides that I don't see anything wrong in your scripts. Did you try to remove your customization: knoppix_home=, myconf=, vga=0 just as a check ? I will try to boot from a fat partition to double check that there is no problem since I didn't try recently and something may have been broken in the 4.01 script. If someone have Knoppix 4.01 booting from a iso file on a fat32 partition, please let me know.
Best Regards,
Gilles

[BenGoodrich]

After enterring the grub command line, you get a list of the drives and partitions by typing something like: "kernel (" + the "tab" key for autocompletion, then enter the drive you want and press "tab" again for the autocompletion of the partitions and so on to browse the tree of directories and files. This is a nice way to verify the path and filenames.


For me, on the non-working laptop (will verify with the working one on next reboot), kernel + SPACE + TAB yields,

Error 1: Filename must be either an absolute pathname or blocklist

and kernel /dev/hda1 yields

Error 26: Disk read error



Did you try to remove your customization: knoppix_home=, myconf=, vga=0 just as a check ?


Yes; if I hadn't before, I have now. It appears that dma is the only cheatcode that precedes the mount, so it is hard to imagine how another cheatcode could interfere.



If someone have Knoppix 4.01 booting from a iso file on a fat32 partition, please let me know.


hp_tc1100 said that he got Knoppix working on a FAT drive on August 9, so it must have been LinuxTag or 3.9

Thanks,
Ben

[ruymbeke]

After enterring the grub command line, you get a list of the drives and partitions by typing something like: "kernel (" + the "tab" key for autocompletion, then enter the drive you want and press "tab" again for the autocompletion of the partitions and so on to browse the tree of directories and files. This is a nice way to verify the path and filenames.

For me, on the non-working laptop (will verify with the working one on next reboot), kernel + SPACE + TAB yields,
Error 1: Filename must be either an absolute pathname or blocklist ...
Try "kernel (", ==> kernel "(" key + the "tab" key for autocompletion, eventually type "h" (for hda1) afer the "("
BTW, I just tried to boot Knoppix 4.01 from the iso on a fat32 partition, and it just works right for me.
Cheers,
Gilles

[BenGoodrich]

Try "kernel (", ==> kernel "(" key + the "tab" key for autocompletion, eventually type "h" (for hda1) afer the "("
BTW, I just tried to boot Knoppix 4.01 from the iso on a fat32 partition, and it just works right for me.


OK. I did this and it indicated my DVD was spelled knoppix4.iso, even though it says KNOPPIX4.iso in Windows and in DOS. I feel compelled to link to a screenshot (http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~goodrich/Files/KNOPPIX4.pdf) that shows the capitalization in Windows, so as not to forever look like a fool. I don't know why / how this could happen, but I suspect that my hard drive is going bad.

Anyway, changing the cheatcode to bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.40/knoppix4.iso did not produce the desired results, so I rereredownloaded the DVD. Now, it is in capital letters on both GRUB and Windows, but still doesn't mount. I am defragmenting the hard drive now, and hoping the DVD gets moved to another location.

Thanks,
Ben

[ruymbeke]

...Anyway, changing the cheatcode to bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.40/knoppix4.iso did not produce the desired results...
Could you please try bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.40/*.iso, assuming that you have only one iso in that directory ?
Cheers, Gilles

[Soulcatcher]

Hi, can you help me please. I'm trying to perform WinPartition PMI on my portege2000 laptop. My partitions are:
http://individual.utoronto.ca/soulcatcher/stuff/partitions.JPG

On the c: i have win2000pro and win98, on d: i have xppro (my main system). I downloaded all the stuff from WinP PMI,
copied the contents of the Root_Of_NTFS folder to c:, edited boot.ini, overwrited contents of C:\BOOT\knoppix.381\ with Knoppix382.zip (cause i'm trying to run knoppix 3.9) and my c:\boot\grub\menu.lst looks like this:

title Knoppix 3.8.1 from NTFS hda1 ISO scan ramdisk=32MB
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.381/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=791 nomce quiet bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.381/knoppix.iso config=scan home=scan ramdisk=32768 noprompt
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.381/minirt_ntfs.gz
boot

where knoppix.iso is the knoppix 3.9 iso.

But when i try to run this option i get "couldnt find knoppis system, dropping you into very simple shell"...

Any ideas why it happens?

p.s. i tried to do it with my portege 7020ct laptop (p2-366) and everything worked fine. But it has different partitions, including linux ones...

[ruymbeke]

... But when i try to run this option i get "couldnt find knoppis system, dropping you into very simple shell"...Did you try what I proposed on my last couple posts ?
Use *.iso instead of the full knoppix.iso name.
Verify the path name of the files using the interactive mode of grub.
Verify the device location of the iso file using knoppix booted from the CD. (in case of serial ATA, SCSI or USB drives)
Remove or rename any other /knoppix directory or KNOPPIX file you may have on your system.
Cheers, Gilles

[Soulcatcher]

... But when i try to run this option i get "couldnt find knoppis system, dropping you into very simple shell"...Did you try what I proposed on my last couple posts ?
Use *.iso instead of the full knoppix.iso name.
Verify the path name of the files using the interactive mode of grub.
Verify the device location of the iso file using knoppix booted from the CD. (in case of serial ATA, SCSI or USB drives)
Remove or rename any other /knoppix directory or KNOPPIX file you may have on your system.
Cheers, Gilles

I dont know how to use command line... i type "kernel (" + tab, it gives me this:
Possible disks are: fd0, hd0

i choose hd0, so i have "kernel (hd0," + TAB gives me:

Possible partitions are:
Part. num: 0, Filesyst. type is fat, part. type 0x0000000c
Part. num: 1, Filesyst. type is ntfs, part. type 0x00000007

ok, i choose 0, and then i press TAB and it closes the bracket for me, so i have: "kernel (hd0,0)". Now what? When i press enter,
it gives me "Error1: Filename must be either an absolute path or blocklist"...

And this laptop doesnt have any usb/serial ata drives :)

p.s. also, when i execute root command, it says that root is fd0. i changed it to hd0 by executing root (hd0,0) but it didnt help. No wonder cause i have no idea what i'm doing :)

[ruymbeke]

... ok, i choose 0, and then i press TAB and it closes the bracket for me, so i have: "kernel (hd0,0)". Now what? When i press enter, it gives me "Error1: Filename must be either an absolute path or blocklist"...
Just add a "/" and press "tab" and it will list you the directories available in the root of the hd0,0 (hda1) partition. Pick the directory where you have the iso, press "tab" and continue the autocompletion until you get the full path of the knoppix iso file. And then verify that this is the path that you have in your menu.lst, but the (hd0,0) which translates into /dev/hda1 and the *.iso (uppercase or lowercase depending on what you get from the grub autocompletion). You may also try to move the iso file somewhere else, like the root of your partition. Just as a test...
Hope this helps.
Gilles

[Soulcatcher]

... ok, i choose 0, and then i press TAB and it closes the bracket for me, so i have: "kernel (hd0,0)". Now what? When i press enter, it gives me "Error1: Filename must be either an absolute path or blocklist"...
Just add a "/" and press "tab" and it will list you the directories available in the root of the hd0,0 (hda1) partition. Pick the directory where you have the iso, press "tab" and continue the autocompletion until you get the full path of the knoppix iso file. And then verify that this is the path that you have in your menu.lst, but the (hd0,0) which translates into /dev/hda1 and the *.iso (uppercase or lowercase depending on what you get from the grub autocompletion). You may also try to move the iso file somewhere else, like the root of your partition. Just as a test...
Hope this helps.
Gilles

oh, ok, yes, i checked the path, everything is at it should be, i have "kernel(hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.381/knoppix.iso".

and my menu.lst has "bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.381/*iso".

Sooo... i dunno :) It doesnt matter if i dont have any ext3/linux partitions, right? Cause i tried it on my desktop comp too and it didnt work. The only laptop where it worked was the one with ext3 and linux swap partitions :)

[ruymbeke]

... It doesnt matter if i dont have any ext3/linux partitions, right? Cause i tried it on my desktop comp too and it didnt work. The only laptop where it worked was the one with ext3 and linux swap partitions :)
No it doesn't, unless you already have a /knoppix directory with a KNOPPIX big file somewhere on your disks/partitions, which you really would like to avoid since this path is some kind of hard coded in the linuxrc boot script and may confuse the iso boot method. I have knoppix to boot from the iso files on all the computers I get a chance to play with. This includes my T43 laptop with the iso file on a NTFS partition, my home computer with all kind of disks/partitions: sata, pata, scsi, fat16/32, ext2/3, ntfs, ... and my fat16 on a usb dongle which I tried on various systems.
Did you try to boot off the knoppix cd and double check the path that knoppix will recognize to access your knoppix.iso file ?
Did you try to remove the "config=scan home=scan ramdisk=32768" ? (it shouldn't matter anyway)
Cheers, Gilles

[ewangr]

Have been trying to follow the excellent instructions from the "Win Partition" topic, and seem to have run into an issue.

I have boot.ini edited to bring up grub, and that will start to load the Knoppix DVD, but then after it goes for a bit I get:



Looking for DVD in: /dev/hdh16
mount.ioctl: LOOP_SET_FD: Bad file descriptor
mount: Could not setup loop device
Accessing KNOPPIX CDROM Failed /cdrom2.loop/boot/knoppix.401/KNOPPIX_V4.0DVD-2005-08-16-EN.iso


It appears that at the point where the Knoppix DVD tries to read the other section of itself that it stops following the /boot path given. After I get this message I get dropped to a limited shell, and Knoppix stops responding to my keyboard.

Any idea what I might need to do here?
[/code]

[ruymbeke]

Have been trying to follow the excellent instructions from the "Win Partition" topic, and seem to have run into an issue. I have boot.ini edited to bring up grub, and that will start to load the Knoppix DVD, but then after it goes for a bit I get:

Looking for DVD in: /dev/hdh16
mount.ioctl: LOOP_SET_FD: Bad file descriptor
mount: Could not setup loop device
Accessing KNOPPIX CDROM Failed /cdrom2.loop/boot/knoppix.401/KNOPPIX_V4.0DVD-2005-08-16-EN.iso
It appears that at the point where the Knoppix DVD tries to read the other section of itself that it stops following the /boot path given. After I get this message I get dropped to a limited shell, and Knoppix stops responding to my keyboard. Any idea what I might need to do here?
Looks like the path for the iso is wrong. Boot any version of knoppix of the cd/dvd and check the path for the iso file then update the menu.lst accordingly. It is better to keep the *.iso to avoid a typo in the filename. Linux path are case sensitive... Hope this helps. Let me know if it works for you. Best Regards, Gilles

[ewangr]

Have been trying to follow the excellent instructions from the "Win Partition" topic, and seem to have run into an issue. I have boot.ini edited to bring up grub, and that will start to load the Knoppix DVD, but then after it goes for a bit I get:

Looking for DVD in: /dev/hdh16
mount.ioctl: LOOP_SET_FD: Bad file descriptor
mount: Could not setup loop device
Accessing KNOPPIX CDROM Failed /cdrom2.loop/boot/knoppix.401/KNOPPIX_V4.0DVD-2005-08-16-EN.iso
It appears that at the point where the Knoppix DVD tries to read the other section of itself that it stops following the /boot path given. After I get this message I get dropped to a limited shell, and Knoppix stops responding to my keyboard. Any idea what I might need to do here?
Looks like the path for the iso is wrong. Boot any version of knoppix of the cd/dvd and check the path for the iso file then update the menu.lst accordingly. It is better to keep the *.iso to avoid a typo in the filename. Linux path are case sensitive... Hope this helps. Let me know if it works for you. Best Regards, Gilles

Problem is that this machine doesn't have a CD or DVD drive (Sony VAIO U70), just an internal 20 Gig HD. Hence the reason I was trying to make this work :D

Since it begins the boot properly, it would seem like the initial path is ok. FWIW, here's what my menu.lst looks like:



title Knoppix 4.0.1 DVD Official Release from ISO
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.401/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=795 nomce quiet bootfrom=/dev/sda1/boot/knoppix.401/*.iso noprompt dma screen=1280x1024 lang=us
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.401/minirt_ntfs.gz
boot


Anything else I can do?

[ruymbeke]

...Since it begins the boot properly, it would seem like the initial path is ok. FWIW, here's what my menu.lst looks like:

title Knoppix 4.0.1 DVD Official Release from ISO
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.401/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=795 nomce quiet bootfrom=/dev/sda1/boot/knoppix.401/*.iso noprompt dma screen=1280x1024 lang=us
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.401/minirt_ntfs.gz
bootAnything else I can do?
If your laptop do not use a serial ata interface but a parallel ata, which is most likely the case (unless you have a new crappy and buggy IBM T43 Thinkpad which do not support any HD upgrade !!!, cf http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=11059) you probaly want to teplace the /dev/sda1 by /dev/hda1 and have something like: bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.401/*.iso
Hope this helps. Let me know. Best Regards, Gilles
PS: USB device like USB dongle keys can also be seen as a sda (scsi like) devices under linux.

[ewangr]

you probaly want to teplace the /dev/sda1 by /dev/hda1 and have something like: bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.401/*.iso
Hope this helps. Let me know.

That was, indeed, the trick. Now to get my display working right (seems to be a bit confused by the internal/external display differences) :D

Thanks again!

[ruymbeke]

1and1 being not free anymore, and with 30GB of bw every month, I have to host these files on an other account.
I will cancel my old account asap and the previous links will no longer work. So please use the following links:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grube.zip Knoppix 3.6, 3.7, 3.81 + usb & grub files
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/Knoppix382.zip Knoppix 3.82,3.9
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno40.zip Knoppix 4.0-LinuxTag-DVD
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno401.zip Knoppix 4.0-Official-Release
The www links of Knoppix wiki win partition (http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Win_Partition) have been updated as well.
Cheers, Gilles

[moserwi]

Is there a way to compile grub 0.05 --> grldr to support splashimages?
How do I enter c:\grldr="Start Grub" mymenu.lst?

Thank you

bye willi

[ruymbeke]

Is there a way to compile grub 0.05 --> grldr to support splashimages?
How do I enter c:\grldr="Start Grub" mymenu.lst?
Thank you, bye willi
Grub already supports splash images: splashimage (hd0,0)/yourpath/yoursplashimage.gz
But the format of the image (xpm) is not that standard, at least for me... Took me a while to figure out how to make it work. The initial path for the first menu.lst is hard coded into grub: /boot/grub/menu.lst or /boot/menu.lst or /menu.lst, but from there you can load yourmenu.lst using this command: configfile (hd0,0)/yourpath/yourmenu.lst
Hope this helps. Best Regards, Gilles

[moserwi]

Well yes, but the chaining of menu.lst will not allow what I intended to do. That is, calling grldr from ntldr with 3 different load attempts = menu.lst ' s, bypassing menu.lst with timout=0...

The thing with this splashimage. I reckoned, that it is essential which color is placed where in the palette and that one should only use say 9 of 14 colors. Besides, My Splashimage is for grub linux 0.95 and should therefore work for grldr too. I will test this and reply to this forum.

willi

[ruymbeke]

Please find below the link for the updated minirt_ntfs.gz file for the
Knoppix 4.0.2 Patch Update 2005-09-23 CD & DVD
(The noprompt cheatcode now works and most of the unionfs bugs should be fixed):
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402.zip
The www links of Knoppix wiki win partition (http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Win_Partition) have been updated as well.
Have fun et let me know if it is working for you.
Thanks, Gilles

[OP4Latino]

Gilles:
Is there any difference between the actual http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402.zip and the one I downloaded last week for the Knoppix games?

I made some typos on menu.lst so I'm using the same I used for knoppix games and it worked fine. I can do apt-get install's. I even used Kano's script to install the radeon drivers.

I tried to install wincodes but I guess I did something wrong and I lost the taskbar including the menu.

Hasta luego.

[ruymbeke]

Gilles:
Is there any difference between the actual http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402.zip and the one I downloaded last week for the Knoppix games? ... Hasta luego.
Yes, I renamed the old kno402.zip I made for knoppix game to gkno402.zip because of official the 4.02 release and the new kno402.zip file should work better for both (402 official and 402 game) anyway ... Gilles

[doobs]

Hey Gilles,

Any chance for Whax 3.0 (was Whoppix) support? Thanks!

Jeff

[ruymbeke]

Hey Gilles, Any chance for Whax 3.0 (was Whoppix) support? Thanks! JeffHi doobs,
Are you asking for the whax-3.0-200705.iso ?
Do you know which kernel version is used and from which knoppix version Whax has been remastered ?
I will have a look, but I have to download it first ...
Best Regards, Gilles

[shrek99]

Gilles

Just a quick note to let you know I got the 402.zip file from your site, and the new CD from bit torrent and they seem to be working like a charm! Thanks for all your hard work, it is much appreciated

Stephen

[ruymbeke]

Hey Gilles, Any chance for Whax 3.0 (was Whoppix) support? Thanks! JeffHi doobs,
Are you asking for the whax-3.0-200705.iso ?
Do you know which kernel version is used and from which knoppix version Whax has been remastered ?
I will have a look, but I have to download it first ...
Best Regards, Gilles
I downloaded and tried Whax, but sorry, it is now based on SLAX and not Knoppix anymore. The boot mechanism looks like now quite different from Knoppix and I have no experience with Slax. BTW, as far as know, Whax is still using an old and buggy version of the UnionFS, so be carefull... Best Regards, Gilles

[ruymbeke]

How to boot Knoppix 4.02/5.01 (cd or dvd data) from a USB dongle:
============================================
I will describe below one more time how to format a fat 16 partition on a USB dongle and make it DOS bootable
and automatically launch a dos version of grub which will start knoppix from the iso cd image
(+kernel +inird files) all located on the USB dongle:

1) Download: http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grubh.zip
2) Extract the directory grube.zip\Grube\Root_Of_USB
3) Launch the program HPUSBFW.EXE (under XP only, sorry), and follow the instructions
and when prompted, point to the system files included in the Root_Of_USB directory
4) copy the rest of the files of Root_Of_USB into the root of your dongle (but do NOT overwrite the io.sys)
5) copy the files required to boot linux: kernel, ramdisk and iso (linux, minirt_ntfs.gz, knoppix.iso)
(you can download the various customized version of the INITRD_NTFS.GZ ramdisk required
to boot from an ISO file (even if the filesystem is not ntfs but a fat or ext2/3) here:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grube.zip for knoppix 3.6, 3.7 and 3.81
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/knoppix382.zip for knoppix 3.82 and 3.9 (same files)
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402u.zip for knoppix 4.02
6) modify the menu.lst file to match your need
(path to the kernel and initrd file + kernel boot options, cf grub and knppix doc.

But be very careful, the path is case sensitive !!!)
7) setup your bios to boot from usb, reboot and have fun...

Hope this will help. Please give me some feedback.
Cheers, Gilles

Edit: I have put together a new zip with everything you need to format a USB dongle (from XP)
and make it boot with Knoppix 4.02 iso: http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/usb_dgle3.zip
It includes 4 boot options using grub or lilo to boot from a usb dongle as /dev/sda1 or /dev/sdb1
and an improved linuxrc script which should help in case of a wrong BOOTFROM kernel cheatcode.

Edit: I have updated the zip file with the latest improvements:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/usb_dgle4.zip
Boot from fat, ntfs & reiser, auto search for the iso, custom & dynamic host and the usb2 patch.

Edit: I have updated the zip file with two bug fix (slow samba network and ext2 persistent home):
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/usb_dgle6.zip
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grubh.zip

Edit: I have updated the zip files for Knoppix 5.01 and the ext2 bug fix:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/usb_dgle7.zip
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grubi.zip

As a recall, the custom (fixed or dynamic) hostname syntax is:
"hostname=mycustomname" or
"hostname=auto-clock" (date+time) or
"hostname=auto-mac" (eth0 mac address)

Please feedbacks are always welcomed. GvR, June 7nd 2006

[Harry Kuhman]

How to boot Knoppix 4.02 (cd or dvd data) from a USB dongle:....
Gilles,

This looks like good information that should be of interest to many people (I regret that my USB sticks are too small for Knoppix to fit or I would try it myself, but my largest is 256meg). Would you consider putting it in the wiki where it might be easy to find in the future by others looking for it?

There is already an article titled "USB Based FAQ" that might be a good place, although the article isn't really a FAQ. Although it is in the Pages in Progress section, it doesn't really seem to be in progress either; it hasn't been updated since April except by wiki spammers and those of us who delete the spam.. Of course, if you would rather start a fresh article or start a fresh one and then look over the old article and see if any information there merits inclusion into your article, that would be welcome too.

If you edit the existing article we'll move it out of the partial section; if you create a new article and include any info you determine suitable from the old article then I expect it should be included in the main pages articles (this is still in the process of being reorganized in a more orderlt fashion) and we could remove the old article.

Harry

[ssfc72]

[quote="ruymbeke"]How to boot Knoppix 4.02 (cd or dvd data) from a USB dongle:
=========================================
I will describe below one more time how to format a fat 16 partition on a USB dongle and make it DOS bootable
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I get an "error 16" file missing, report in my attempt to boot from the USB dongle.

I think my problem may be with the menu.1st file. I believe this file has to be edited to point to the files on the dongle but I am a bit of a novice at this and my editing of the file doesn't appear to allow booting Knoppix from the USB dongle.

Could someone paste their edited, menu.1st file, in a message here so I can try it out.

I am using Knoppix 3.9, so I downloaded the grub/knoppix382.zip file.

My USB dongle is good because I have had Damn Small Linux, booting from it.

Thanks for any help you can provide!

[ruymbeke]

... I think my problem may be with the menu.1st file....
* The grub config file name is "menu.lst" (with lowercase L and NOT the number 1).
* Be carefull with the path and filenames. Linux and Grub are case sensitive !
* Remove any other USB dongle/scsi/sata drives you may have on the system or edit the kernel cheatcodes accordingly.
* Remove or rename any other /KNOPPIX directory you may have on any other partition of any drive. (An other accessible /KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX file may fool the linuxrc boot script which will try to boot from your hdd instead of booting from your USB dongle)
* Could you please try Knoppix 402 with the following menu.lst (since previous versions of knoppix may have use other device mapping for USB devices)

title Knoppix 4.02 ISO from USB sda1
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.402/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init bootfrom=/dev/sda1/boot/knoppix.402/*.iso lang=us noprompt apm=power-off nomce ### all the kernel options on a single line ###
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.402/minirt_ntfs.gz
boot

Let me know if it works now. Best Regards,
Gilles

[tisazalay]

I tried following all the steps and I get this:

Kernel panic - not syncinig: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknow-block(1,3)

Any clues on what's wrong?
I only have two HD, both are NTFS. I'm using kno402.zip merged on grube.zip. I placed the cd iso on knoppix.402 (along with linux and minirt_ntfs.gz)

this are the lines that are supposed to boot the iso
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.402/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=791 nomce quiet bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.402/*.iso ramdisk=32768 noprompt dma screen=1024x768
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.402/minirt_ntfs.gz


The CD boots ok...
Thanks for any help...


tisazalay

[ruymbeke]

I tried following all the steps and I get this:
Kernel panic - not syncinig: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknow-block(1,3)
Any clues on what's wrong? I only have two HD, both are NTFS. I'm using kno402.zip merged on grube.zip. I placed the cd iso on knoppix.402 (along with linux and minirt_ntfs.gz)
this are the lines that are supposed to boot the iso
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.402/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=791 nomce quiet bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.402/*.iso ramdisk=32768 noprompt dma screen=1024x768
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.402/minirt_ntfs.gz
The CD boots ok... Thanks for any help... tisazalay
I suppose this is about to boot knoppix from a ntfs partition and not from a usb dongle.
When you boot knoppix from the cd/dvd what is device that knoppix will assign to the partition where your iso/linux/minirt_ntfs.gz files are located ? If not /dev/hda1/ you will need to update the bootfrom kernel cheatcode accordingly.
Best Regards, Gilles

[tisazalay]

I suppose this is about to boot knoppix from a ntfs partition and not from a usb dongle.
When you boot knoppix from the cd/dvd what is device that knoppix will assign to the partition where your iso/linux/minirt_ntfs.gz files are located ? If not /dev/hda1/ you will need to update the bootfrom kernel cheatcode accordingly.
Best Regards, Gilles

Thanks, I don't know what went wrong, but I managed to fix everything by copyng again the menu.lst you provided and the minirt_ntfs.gz, the latter I guess had errors and that was the cause, when replaced with a fresh version everything went fine... (I think a power failure caused some bytes to appear that souldn't)...

Thanks for your work on kno402.zip, It does the work great!

tisazalay

[ssfc72]

... I think my problem may be with the menu.1st file....
* The grub config file name is "menu.lst" (with lowercase L and NOT the number 1).
* Be carefull with the path and filenames. Linux and Grub are case sensitive !
* Remove any other USB dongle/scsi/sata drives you may have on the system or edit the kernel cheatcodes accordingly.
* Remove or rename any other /KNOPPIX directory you may have on any other partition of any drive. (An other accessible /KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX file may fool the linuxrc boot script which will try to boot from your hdd instead of booting from your USB dongle)
* Could you please try Knoppix 402 with the following menu.lst (since previous versions of knoppix may have use other device mapping for USB devices)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for your help, Gilles!

I am still getting, "error 16" "file not found"
I got the Knoppix 402 and replaced all the files on the USB key and I also got the Knoppix402.zip file and swapped those files as well.
The menu.lst file from the zip file had a bunch of different Title paragraphs for different configurations, so I deleted those out and pasted in the Title example you provided.

I believe Knoppix refers to my USB key as a uda1 device and not sda1. Would this be causing a problem?

Bill

[ruymbeke]

... I am still getting, "error 16" "file not found" ...
I got the Knoppix 402 and replaced all the files on the USB key and I also got the Knoppix402.zip file ...
I believe Knoppix refers to my USB key as a uda1 device and not sda1. Would this be causing a problem? Bill
On my system (Thinkpad T43) Knoppix 4.0.2 uses /dev/sda2 device as for my usb dongle. /dev/sda1 being used by the hdd (the T43 uses a sata chipset with a sata/pata bridge) Previous (in fact intermediate) versions of knoppix were using /dev/uda devices. So I would still use /dev/sda1 in most cases. The best way to know, is to boot from the cd/dvd and check from Knoppix running which device is associated with your USB dongle and use that same device in the kernel command line of your menu.lst. Hope this helps. Gilles

[ssfc72]

I am still getting, "error 16" "file not found" ...
I got the Knoppix 402 and replaced all the files on the USB key and I also got the Knoppix402.zip file ...
I believe Knoppix refers to my USB key as a uda1 device and not sda1. Would this be causing a problem? Bill
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On my system (Thinkpad T43) Knoppix 4.0.2 uses /dev/sda2 device as for my usb dongle. /dev/sda1 being used by the hdd (the T43 uses a sata chipset with a sata/pata bridge) Previous (in fact intermediate) versions of knoppix were using /dev/uda devices. So I would still use /dev/sda1 in most cases. The best way to know, is to boot from the cd/dvd and check from Knoppix running which device is associated with your USB dongle and use that same device in the kernel command line of your menu.lst. Hope this helps. Gilles[/quote]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Got it! Thanks Gilles!

It turns out my trouble was I had copied all the files and directories as they were arranged on the CD to the USB dongle, in the same layout.
Once I created the "knoppix.402" directory on the dongle and placed the proper files in the directory, then I got Knoppix to boot from my USB dongle.:-)

[ruymbeke]

Hello,
Please find below a link allowing to boot Knoppix 4.02 from the iso file being also on a reiser partition:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402r.zip
PS, the same minirt_reiser.gz file can still be used to boot the iso from ntfs, fat16/32, ext2/3 or usb
Enjoy and please give me some feedback,
Cheers, Gilles

[ruymbeke]

How to boot Knoppix 4.02 (cd or dvd data) from a USB dongle: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93758#93758This looks like good information that should be of interest to many people...
Would you consider putting it in the wiki where it might be easy to find in the future by others looking for it?
Harry
I am very busy at work these days, but YES asap...
Thank you for the suggestion.
Best Regards, Gilles

PS: Just as a curiosity, why don't you like Knoppix booting from the hdd (even from iso) http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=94439#94439
"installing the disc to disk... people ... think that is a good idea (I'm not one of them)"
and why is it called "poor man install" which is kind of pejorative ?
Most of my computers are multi boot with OpenBSD and various Linux distributions (Mandriva, Debian, Suse, ...)
and sadly still Windows for some time...
But if not all, most OS installs take a significant amount of time and
hdd partitionning is always at risk, especially if you are not very experienced.
I do not know any faster and safer way to install and boot Linux on a computer than this iso setup with Knoppix.
I really like the speed of the hdd and the simplicity of the install (and removal).

Hope you will get a 1GB USB dongle soon to try this setup.
FYI, I am pretty happy with my very fast and ultra small PQI 1GB Intelligent Stick Pro 170X USB dongle:
http://cgi.ebay.com/PQI-1GB-Intelligent-Stick-Pro-170X-USB-FLASH-PEN-DRIVE_W0QQitemZ8711319911QQ
Under XP I get a 15MB/S sustained write and 25MB/S read.
For some reasons it is much slower with Knoppix but still ok. Somebody have an explanation and/or a solution ?
2 of these devices fit in a credit card holder inside my wallet
and I just love this concept of travelling without a laptop, without a large cd or dvd,
just my usb dongle always with me ...
(I am not, do not know the seller and have no interest in PQI, besides the fact that I really like this product) :wink:

[Harry Kuhman]

PS: Just as a curiosity, why don't you like Knoppix booting from the hdd (even from iso)
I'm not all that opposed to booting from the ISO, and booting from an ISO on USB flash device strikes me as a fine idea. I do suspect (reinforced from what I've seen here) that many people who set about to boot from the ISO think the system will be something it is not, and many if not most will use it as a gateway drug to a full Knoppix install. Now if people understand what they are getting into and are making an informed choice about trying to "install" Knoppix, that's fine with me. But I think the new kids need to be exposed to both sides of the discussion and be aware of the issues they may face when installing Knoppix instead of a distro that is actually intended and supported for hard disk install. I come to that conclusion from about 3 years of watching these forums and seeing the same problems over and over after some new user installs Knoppix, clearly before reading about others having the same problems they quickly have.

One thing I find particularly sad is that three years ago the Debian install was much more technical than it is now. People came up with the Knoppix install as a way around ther problems of the Debian installer, although they never bothered to fix some minor things (like getting file permissions correct). These may have been trival to the script writers, but cause problems repeatedly for new users who attempt to install Knoppix. In that time the Debian installer has improved greatly. Yet many peope who try the Knoppix Live CD quickly rush to install it without knowing the issues and without ever trying a Debian install of a current release. This makes no sense to me and I don't believe that it should be encouraged.

Actually, ISO booting does have it's place. It is well used in testing new remasters. 3 years ago a poor man's install made sense too, as long as one was clear about why it was done and the limitations.. The reason for this was to get Knoppix to boot and run quickly but to allow it to fit on some of the older disks of the time; many of which were too small to hold an uncompresses Knoppix system. But disk space continues to grow and it's been ages since I've seen anyone ask how they can put knoppix on their old 1.2 gig hard disk. Techniques like this should be retained in the documentation, but I feel users, particularly new users, should be encouraged to use Knoppix as what it is, a Live CD or DVD, and cautioned about the issues that come up when one tries to get this mix of different incompatable Debian distributions to "install" to a harddisk where they will likely then try to install something additional or update their current software. I favor suggesting that the new user try to install Derbian. I have heard that Kantonix avoids some of the mixed distro issues that Knoppix is well known to have, so I do understand when people recommend it over Knoppix for this purpose. But I've never installed Kantonix myself and so am not going to be advising others to do so, and I really don't see a good reason to do so over a modern Debian Install (although I do expect that in some special cases these reasons do exist).

[kanat]

How to boot Knoppix 4.02 (cd or dvd data) from a USB dongle:
=========================================
...
7) setup your bios to boot from usb, reboot and have fun...

Hope this will help. Please give me some feedback.
Cheers, Gilles

Hi, this is great, i prepared to do all steps (even buy 2Gb usb memory stick) and just today reveal that BIOS of my laptop not support booting from usb-hdd and vendor do not know when aproppriate upgrade of BIOS will be ready :-(

So will you be please to tell me how to boot from CD (i did default boot of Knoppix, everything OK) then switch to usb memory stick
(some kind of chroot). I want that Knoppix will release /cdrom, so i will be able to umount /cdrom and mount other CD (for example to burn or move a multivolume archive to some HDDs).

Now i using Knoppix 3.9 but downloading 4.02 is not a problem.
Knoppix mounts my device as /mnt/uba and works great, smaller one (128 Mb) mounts as /mnt/uba1.

---
kanat.

[ruymbeke]

... So will you be please to tell me how to boot from CD (i did default boot of Knoppix, everything OK) then switch to usb memory stick (some kind of chroot). I want that Knoppix will release /cdrom, so i will be able to umount /cdrom and mount other CD (for example to burn or move a multivolume archive to some HDDs)... kanat.
I never tried to boot from the cd and then chroot to an other media.
If I understand you right, you would need to mount first your usb device, then mount the knoppix iso image as a virtual cdrom, then mount the knoppix compressed file system KNOPPIX and then using the unionfs substitute the booting file system by the one on the new media and finally release the old booting media so you can use the it for something else as burning a cd.
Well, this should be possible but seems very complicated to me and I would like to suggest you an other way. As I understand your problem is really that your bios cannot boot from your usb dongle but it boots from the hdd, cdrom and probably from a floppy as well. Once the bootloader is running you will be able to load the kernel and ramdisk and then knoppix will read it's data (ISO or cd image file) from what ever media you like. You only need to decide which media you would like to boot from and install a boot loader on it and copy the kernel ramdisk and iso file somewhere but not necessarily on the same boot media (each one of these boot file can be located on a different media). The trick is that if you want to boot from the iso file, you will need to use my modified minirt ramdisk file what ever you boot from a ntfs/reiser partition or not. I had to modify the linuxrc script inside the ramdisk to have the dual loop/cloop (ISO and KNOPPIX) working properly and I also updated/added ntfs and reiserfs support (initrd_reiser.gz, http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402r.zip ). So as a summary please find below some options I would like to suggest you to try:
1) boot from the hdd:
- 1a) lilo or grub already used as a boot loader: just update your lilo.conf and run lilo or update your menu.lst for grub
- 1b) XP installed as your main and only OS: add a line to your boot.ini to launch grub as described in this thread or in here: http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Win_Partition
2) boot from a floppy: just install grub on your floppy disk and create a menu.lst with the correct path to the boot files located on your hdd as an example
3) boot from a cd: make a bootable cd with grub or isolinux and create/update the config files to match the path of your boot files
4) boot from usb, look in here: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93758#93758 (but this doesn't work for you now)
Hope this helps, Gilles

[scubanator87]

ok i i found this thanks to guilles buit after i followed the instructions, i got this error..:

C:\>goto LNX

C:\>grub.exe --config-file=(hd0,0)/menu.lst

SORRY! currently supported dos versions are: MS-DOS 3.30 and later; FreeDOS kernal build 2032 and later

Programs such as TSRs and device drivers may also change the bios interrrupt vector table. make sure thoes programs are not running then try again.

C:\>

cannot find win.COM, unable to continue loading windows

C:\>

first thought was to update dos. so i did to 6.2. but same result. im using a sandisk 1 gb cruz micro so i can fit the originaly iso on there. i checked the menu.lst file and edited it so that it says sdb1 instead of sda1 because when koppix loads from the cd thats how it reconized the usb key. if any one has any suggestions i would appreceate it.

[ruymbeke]

ok i i found this thanks to guilles buit after i followed the instructions, i got this error..:
C:\>goto LNX
C:\>grub.exe --config-file=(hd0,0)/menu.lst
SORRY! currently supported dos versions are: MS-DOS 3.30 and later; FreeDOS kernal build 2032 and later
Programs such as TSRs and device drivers may also change the bios interrrupt vector table. make sure thoes programs are not running then try again...
It looks like that you did not follow my instructions. You did not (re)formatted your disk flash memory with my setup or you have added/modified some other things in the boot process (config.sys or autoexec.bat). You cannot have emm386.exe or himem.sys or any other driver loaded when calling grub.exe. An easy way to check is to press F8 at the boot time ans ask DOS to boot step by step and verify that nothing is loaded by answering NO to every questions during the boot. I am sorry, but this a restriction to the DOS port of GRUB.EXE.
Hope this helps, best regards, Gilles

[kh7v7]

Hello all

I am trying to install knoppix 4.02 cd on a pavillion 304w.
stock pavillions as you all know, come with a restore partition hd0,0 - drive D: and hd0,1 is the actual windows xp ntfs, drive C:

followed the instructions provided at the wiki, followed this thread in case I was missing something but when selecting grub at the bootloader I get this msgs:

Booting ' Default :/boot/grub/menu.lst (GvR Oct 6th 2004)
find root/boot/grub/menu.lst
Error 16 :File not found

and

Booting ' Fallback:/menu.1st
Find root/menu.1st
Error 16: File not found
hit any key to continue

windows boots fine when selected on the boot menu.

we have:
- renamed the directories from BOOT to boot and GRUB to grub
- copied menu.lst from boot/grub/menu.lst to c:\menu.list

no luck. grub still cant find the boot menu.

looking at grldr hex dump I see this fragment:

(hd0,0)/boot/grub/menu.lst

is grldr hard wired to look for menu.list (and support stuff) from the first partition only?

I may give it a try and hack it by making mods so it points to (hd0,1)/boot/grub/menu.lst any ideas?

a second question (and a silly one). again, please? what is the correct name of the directories? lowercase all? upper case all?

thanks in advance for any help.

[ruymbeke]

... restore partition hd0,0 - drive D: and hd0,1 is the actual windows xp ntfs, drive C: ...
Try to use this grldr: http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grldr ,put your menu.lst in c:/ and all path names are lower case.
Hope this helps, Gilles

[kh7v7]

Try to use this grldr: http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grldr ,put your menu.lst in c:/ and all path names are lower case.
Hope this helps, Gilles
thanks so much for your fast reply Guilles.
installed the new grldr at C:\ copied menu.lst to C:\ and booted.
the menu was not found.
copied the menu to hd(0,0) (drive d: )
rebooted and the menu was found
selected knoppix and got this...

Kernel (hd0,1)/boot/knoppix.402/linux ramdisk_size= 100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power off vga=791 nomce quiet boot from=/dev/hda2/boot/knoppix.402/ *.iso noprompt dma screen=1024x768

Error 18: Inconsistant file system structure

copied c:\boot (holding everything inside the iso included) to d:\boot and made the changes needed to reflect this on menu.lst.
the system worked first try.

thanks a lot.

[ruymbeke]

... Error 18: Inconsistant file system structure ...
I am glad you got it working. But if you do not want to have the big iso file in d (hd0,0), you may still keep it in c (hd0,1) and update your menu.lst accordingly. The ntfs linux kernel module handle properly the ntfs partitions (to read the iso) but grub uses a simplified/old code and sometimes cannot find and load the menu.lst, kernel & ramdisk. A solution to this is to move these files in an other (older) directory or into the root of the ntfs partition. This is usually enough to get it working. Grub is supposed to search for the menu.lst in all disk drives and partitions and in several directories /boot/grub, /grub and /. I don't understand why it doesn't work in your case.
Hope this helps, Gilles

[kh7v7]

...A solution to this is to move these files in an other (older) directory or into the root of the ntfs partition. This is usually enough to get it working. Grub is supposed to search for the menu.lst in all disk drives and partitions and in several directories /boot/grub, /grub and /. I don't understand why it doesn't work in your case.
Hope this helps, Gilles
I will try that next Guilles. would be nice and then use the space at the fat32 in hd(0,0) for a permanent home...

again, thanks so much for the help

[kanat]

... So will you be please to tell me how to boot from CD (i did default boot of Knoppix, everything OK) then switch to usb memory stick (some kind of chroot). I want that Knoppix will release /cdrom, so i will be able to umount /cdrom and mount other CD (for example to burn or move a multivolume archive to some HDDs)... kanat.
...
3) boot from a cd: make a bootable cd with grub or isolinux and create/update the config files to match the path of your boot files
4) boot from usb, look in here: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93758#93758 (but this doesn't work for you now)
Hope this helps, Gilles

My system has no floppy at all. So i will try to master my own bootable CD. I like Knoppix have a lot of cheat-codes that helps to avoid changing something in CD. So is there a big difference between hdd and usb-hdd from point of view of Knoppix loader?
(Never try to say: "knoppix tohd=/dev/hda1" and next time boot via "knoppix fromhd=/dev/hda1", it will be great if a magic spells like:

knoppix tohd=/dev/uba1
then
knoppix fromhd=/dev/uba1 will solve my problem with releasing /cdrom. )

If possible will try simplest way: append 1Gb RAM to system and say "knoppix toram".

[ruymbeke]

...My system has no floppy at all. So i will try to master my own bootable CD...
Why don't you like the hdd boot ? Maybe because you don't want to install nothing on a foreing computer.
Anyway, without floppy and without bootable usb device, you will need to make your own bootable CD.
To make it simple, I would suggest you to use a (mini) CD to boot from the bios which will run isolinux, which will then load and run grub (better bootloader with command line access, very usefull for debug) and finally load the kernel + ramdisk. Once the kernel is running it will recognize your usb disk and will load knoppix from your USB device (and not from the cd) which will allow you to use the cdrom for other tasks as CD burning. Dos this sounds reasonnable ?
To do that you will still need grub.exe (which is also a kernel by itself), to be loaded by isolinux using these line in the isolinux.cfg file:
label grub.exe
kernel grub.exe
my minirt_reiser.gz, to have the proper linuxrc script to boot from the iso being on your USB drive
plus the linux kernel and the correct grub.lst on the cd.
Hope this helps, Gilles

[semreh]

Gilles,

thank you yet again for your work - I now have Knoppix 4.02 in the GRUB menu on my USB dongle, and it boots flawlessly. I can boot into Knoppix 3.7 or 4.02 (should I wish to).

I think I'm using a slightly different technique to your stadard technique - it all works out in the end 'though.

Essentially, I used Knoppix booted from CD to format the USB thumb drive, then partition it into three partitions - a FAT boot partition, a second FAT partition for exchanging data with Windows systems, and an ext2 partition to use as a writeable drive when booted into Linux.

I used (IIRC) dd to transfer GRUB to the MBR/boot sector of the bootable FAT partition of the USB thumb drive, so I just plug the thumb drive into the laptop's USB port and power on straight into GRUB - no DOS required. I then use your customised kernel to find the ISO on an XP NTFS partition and everything boots nicely!

the only fly in the ointment is that XP doesn't discover the second FAT partition I created, even though it is perfectly visible under Knoppix. Never mind - it does most of what I want, and it is SO nice to boot the work laptop into a useful OS.

The next project is to partition a 1 GByte USB thumbdrive, make a FAT bootable partition on it, and put the ISO onto another partition so I don't even have to have the ISO on the work HD - then I can basically hijack any PC that can be booted from its USB port.

Many, many thanks again.

Semreh

[semreh]

Hello,
Please find below a link allowing to boot Knoppix 4.02 from the iso file being also on a reiser partition:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402r.zip
PS, the same minirt_reiser.gz file can still be used to boot the iso from ntfs, fat16/32, ext2/3 or usb
Enjoy and please give me some feedback,
Cheers, Gilles

Gilles,

further to my last message, I'm using the above. This ain't useful feedback, as I'm not using reiser, but I can confirm it (still) works with the ISO being on an NTFS partition.

Thanks,

semreh

[kanat]

...My system has no floppy at all. So i will try to master my own bootable CD...
Why don't you like the hdd boot ? Maybe because you don't want to install nothing on a foreing computer.
...
Hope this helps, Gilles

Thanks, Gilles.

I did very simple thing and it did the desired effect.

0) format my 2Gb usb bar in vfat (FAT32), Insert Knoppix 3.9 LiveCD.
1) boot knoppix tohd=/dev/uba1

Knoppix booted from CD, asks me to be patient and start copy /knoppix directory to /dev/uba1 (my usb bar), it takes a long time cause of speed ~1Mb/sec.
After this system booted and was in a shape i have expected (/dev/uba1 mounted on /cdrom and i was able to eject knoppix CD, insert another one and see the new CD on /mnt/auto/cdrom) so everything works great.

1a) I have boot again Win XP and copy previously saved configs.tbz and knoppix.sh to root of usb bar.

and finally insert again Knoppix 3.9 LiveCD

2) boot knoppix fromhd=/dev/uba1 myconfig=/dev/uba1

and it works as expected.

So maybe this info is obvious for many users of Knoppix but it is proven way if one has no BIOS able to boot from usb, has no floppy on system, not enouph RAM to copy CD to, and wants to be able to burn info on the only CD-drive on system.

This way seems to be better becouse you need only official Knoppix LiveCD and 1Gb usb bar (that is much cheaper than 1Gb of RAM too)

Hope i did usefull experiment :)
---
kanat.
PS: Now i am writing from Knoppix booted this way (using Konqueror). ("Knoppix - from zero to linux in 5 minutes" ... indeed so)

[jacksonon]

alright since there has been much help in here i'll post my problem as well :-)

i've got a laptop with sata interface:
sda1 -> NTFS windows-root-partition
sda2 -> reiserfs, my linux root partition
sda3 -> fat32 partition filled with recovery stuff
sda4 -> swap partition

my problem... while booting grub i get the flashing cursor only stated earlier here.
i'll start off with my 2 config files:

boot.ini:

[boot loader]
timeout=8
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOW S
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windoze" /fastdetect
c:\bootgrub="Linux 1"
c:\grldr="Linux 2"

menu.Lst: (the file does not have a capital L, just to distinguish between i and l :-)

color white/blue black/light-gray
default 0
timeout 1
gfxmenu (hd0,1)/boot/message

title Linux
kernel (hd0,1)/boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda2 vga=0x314 selinux=0 xyz acpi_sleep=s3_bios,s3_mode splash=silent resume=/dev/sda4 showopts
initrd (hd0,1)/boot/initrd

title Windoze
root (hd0,0)
chainloader +1

title Failsafe
kernel (hd0,1)/boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda2 showopts ide=nodma apm=off acpi=off vga=normal noresume selinux=0 barrier=off nosmp noapic maxcpus=0 3
initrd (hd0,1)/boot/initrd

title memtest86
kernel (hd0,1)/boot/memtest.bin

as you can see i already tried to use the bootgrub thing, with no difference. i have also copied bootgrub, grldr and the /boot folder to my FAT32 partition and changed C:\grldr and bootgrub to D:\ which is the fat32 partition (the last thing changed the error! i then get the hal.dll missing)

and yes, i have both the initrd and vmlinuz files in my C:\boot folder
any suggestions?

oh sorry i forgot.. this is winxp prof (yea i know xp sucks, but i heard some rumors about w2k and problem with centrino notebooks

[ruymbeke]

...as you can see i already tried to use the bootgrub thing, with no difference. i have also copied bootgrub, grldr and the /boot folder to my FAT32 partition and changed C:\grldr and bootgrub to D:\ which is the fat32 partition (the last thing changed the error! i then get the hal.dll missing)
and yes, i have both the initrd and vmlinuz files in my C:\boot folder. any suggestions?
oh sorry i forgot.. this is winxp prof (yea i know xp sucks, but i heard some rumors about w2k and problem with centrino notebooks
I have this running on my T43 Thinkpad which is using a serial ata interface and a buggy sata/pata bridge to the pata hdd.
So there is no problem with centrino notebooks or sata interfaces but yes old version of grldr do not always work with 2k.
Please use one of the latest version from http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grldr
About your boot problem, you have to put the grldr file into the root of your XP partition which is the C drive as it was called at the time of the XP install and you cannot rename or move the grldr file. This is a limitation of the ntldr XP boot code. Now to boot knoppix from the iso on the hdd you will need to use the initrd_ntfs.gz or initrd_reiser.gz ramdisk (fat,ext,nfts+reiser support) instead of the initrd.gz ramdisk off the cd, cf: http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402.zip or http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402r.zip
Last thing, you will need to have the XP partition as the primary active partition (first boot loader code run from the bios).
Hope this helps, regards, Gilles

[jacksonon]

I have this running on my T43 Thinkpad which is using a serial ata interface and a buggy sata/pata bridge to the pata hdd.
So there is no problem with centrino notebooks or sata interfaces but yes old version of grldr do not always work with 2k.
Please use one of the latest version from http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grldr
done.

About your boot problem, you have to put the grldr file into the root of your XP partition which is the C drive as it was called at the time of the XP install and you cannot rename or move the grldr file. This is a limitation of the ntldr XP boot code. yep sure thing, done as well.
Now to boot knoppix from the iso on the hdd you will need to use the initrd_ntfs.gz or initrd_reiser.gz ramdisk (fat,ext,nfts+reiser support) instead of the initrd.gz ramdisk off the cd, cf: http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402.zip or http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402r.zip
hm.. cant find those initrd files on my dvd. i guess that's because i bought knoppix on a dvd inside a magazine. die /boot folder doesn't contain those files and the KNOPPIX folder only has KNOPPIX & KNOPPIX2 in it.. looks like some kind of image to me... are these files available online?

Last thing, you will need to have the XP partition as the primary active partition (first boot loader code run from the bios).
Hope this helps, regards, Gilles
done too, sda1 is flagged as active

no difference so far :(

don't know if its important, but i took the original linux & initrd files from the reiser partition, which should be ok since i can boot the system using a cd (e.g. a suse install cd.. select install and then boot existing system). (alright i did'nt take the linux & initrd files sind that are only symlinks :-) but i took the files that were linked and renamed them..

[ruymbeke]

Now to boot knoppix from the iso on the hdd you will need to use the initrd_ntfs.gz or initrd_reiser.gz ramdisk (fat,ext,nfts+reiser support) instead of the initrd.gz ramdisk off the cd, cf: http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402.zip or http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402r.zip
hm.. cant find those initrd files on my dvd. i guess that's because i bought knoppix on a dvd inside a magazine. die /boot folder doesn't contain those files and the KNOPPIX folder only has KNOPPIX & KNOPPIX2 in it.. looks like some kind of image to me... are these files available online?
The http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402r.zip link is pointing to the initrd_reiser.gz ramdisk that you have to use to boot from the iso being on the hdd. You cannot use the initrd.gz ramdisk that you get off the cd/dvd. I had to modify/patch the original ramdisk to add support for ntfs and reiser and get the iso boot from hdd working. Best Regards, Gilles

[jacksonon]

OH MY GOD! i'm so stupid :D

i've been messing around with getting grub to work outside of my mbr.. and right now the ultimate solution came right into my mind without any warnings... its done in one simple command: grub-installer --no-floppy /dev/sda1 (or /dev/hda1 if you like :))

and thats it.. this shit works ^^ far easier then working with grub4ntldr or the "make mbr-image and mount that with ntldr"-stuff which actually doesnt work at all but some say it does :8)

[jacksonon]

in addition to my previous post (there's no edit button around here o_O) i have to say, that my solution left windows unbootable. i then found another solution which now works perfect:

i flagged my sda2 (reiser, mounted as / ) active and installed grub in its bootsector.
sda1 contains windoze and its default bootsector. now grub loads, and BOTH windoze and linux are bootable from it!

[marft]

Hi people!

I tried to install Knoppix 4.0.2 to a USB dongle for six hours now - without any success. I hope anyone here could help me; that would be so great. Thanks a lot in advance! :wink:

Here are the facts:
- I formated the USB dongle under WinXP with the HPUSBFW.EXE and made it bootable with the files in the grub archive.
- I have deactivated booting from all drives except USB port (another computer than the one with WinXP)
- I copied the files to the USB dongle as described here (if I understood right) and have the following files now on it:

>root: Autoexec.bat, COMMAND.COM, Config.sys, DBLBUFF.SYS, grub.exe, HIMEM.SYS, HPUSBFW.EXE, IFSHLP_.SYS, IO.SYS, menu.lst, MSDOS.SYS, treeinfo.wc

>>/boot/boot.cat, boot.msg, f2, f3, german.kbd, isolinux.bin, isolinux.cfg, linux, logo.16, memtest, menu.lst, minirt.gz, minirt_ntfs.gz

>>>/boot/grub/bootgrub, built_in_menu.lst, e2fs_stage1_5, fat_stage1_5, grldr, grub.exe, linux, memtest, menu.lst, minirt_ntfs.gz, nbgrub, ntfs_stage1_5, pxegrub, reiserfs_stage1_5, stage1, stage2, stage2_eltorito

>>>/boot/knoppix.402/KNOPPIX.iso, linux, memtest, menu-lst, minirt_ntfs.gz

There are a fiew files two or three times - I know, I'm desperated :?

All menu.lst files look like this:

################################################## ####
# GvR April 12th 2005
color black/cyan yellow/cyan
timeout=5
default=5

title Knoppix 4.02 ISO from USB sda1
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.402/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init bootfrom=/dev/sda1/boot/knoppix.402/*.iso lang=us noprompt apm=power-off nomce ### all the kernel options on a single line ###
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.402/minirt_ntfs.gz
boot

title Knoppix 4.02 ISO from USB sda2
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.402/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init bootfrom=/dev/sda2/boot/knoppix.402/*.iso lang=us noprompt apm=power-off nomce ### all the kernel options on a single line ###
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.402/minirt_ntfs.gz
boot

title Default Boot on HD 0
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
chainloader +1
boot

title Memory test
kernel (hd0,0)/memtest

################################################## ####

The computer boots until the well known "Error 16: File not found". I also escaped the execution of all DOS drivers (himem.sys and others). After that a list appears and I can choose from the following options:
- /boot/grub/menu.lst
- /menu.lst

Both options do lead to the "Error 16" again.

Thats all I know at the moment. Oh, it's a 1 GB USB dongle from Toshiba. It would be really fine if anyone could give me a hot tip :)


With kind regards
Marcel

[ruymbeke]

... I tried to install Knoppix 4.0.2 to a USB dongle for six hours now - without any success. I hope anyone here could help me; that would be so great. Thanks a lot in advance! :wink: ... Marcel

Well this looks like a little confusing to me. Did you follow the instructions I posted here ?
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93758#93758
If yes, you should not have that many files in your USB dongle which may confuse the boot process.
And btw, you should delete or rename (at least temporary) any other KNOPPIX directory or KNOPPIX file
you may have on all other partitions or disk drive since that may also confuse the linuxrc boot script.

Anyway I made a new zip file customized for booting Knoppix 4.02 from a usb dongle:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/usb_dgle.zip
After formatting your USB dongle with HPUSBFW.EXE pointing to the content of the zip file,
copy the rest of the zip file into your usb dongle but be careful to NOT overwrite the file IO.SYS
and obviously copy the iso knoppix 4.02 file into the /boot/knoppix.402 directory (please keep the lowercase ".iso" extension)
Then after booting from your usb dongle, you should have a first menu proposing to use grub or lilo (both should work but I have a preference for grub)
and if you choose grub you should have a second menu proposing to boot knoppix from the iso on sda1 or sdb1.
In most cases, sda1 will work but with my Thinkpad T43 I have to use the sdb1 option because sda1 is recognized and used by the sata hdd bridge.
Hope this will help you and please let me know how that work for you.
Best Regards,
Gilles

PS: If you have other usb scsi or sata devices on your system, you may need to update some config files
to use /dev/sdc1 or /dev/sd...1, instead of /dev/sda1. The easiest way to know about which device to use
is to boot from the cd and check what device knoppix have assigned to your usb dongle.
Good luck !

[moiz]

Hello.
I'd like to boot dvd version from d: (I have no place on c:)-NTFS. What should I do and how to change the menu.lst?
Dario

[ruymbeke]

Hello.
I'd like to boot dvd version from d: (I have no place on c:)-NTFS. What should I do and how to change the menu.lst?
Dario
Boot with the knoppix cd/dvd, check what is the device knoppix will assign to the device you would like to boot from, and modify the file menu.lst accordingly. As an example if the windows d:\ volume is the second partition of your first hdd (as recognized by linux), you will need to change (hd0,0) --> (hd0,1) at the beginning of the kernel and initrd lines, and /dev/hda1 --> /dev/hda2 in the bootfrom= cheatcode of the kernel line. To figure out what is the device assigned to your partition, first click on the device icon on the dashboard and verify that this is the device you are looking for, then open a shell and use the df command to get the device mapping between /mnt/your_d_volume and the /dev/hda... or /dev/sda... Finally when migrating the knoppix boot files from c to d, it is probably a good idea to keep the same filenames and directory tree from the root of the partition. Hope this helps. Please let me know how that works for you.
Best Regards, Gilles

[marft]

Hi Gilles!

Thanks a lot, really a lot for your help. And please excuse my late answer.

With your new zip I had a little bit more success, but I can't yet boot KNOPPIX. But I'm more hopeful now. That's the current staus:

My computer has a SATA hdd, no other USB devices are installed. I did everything like you described in your new description:
- format USB dongle (with FAT32)
- copy the other files from the archive to the USB dongle

Then I booted with Grub >> no success. The error messages:

Booting 'find /menu.lst'

find --set-root /menu.lst

Error 17: File not found
Booting 'find /boot/grub/menu.lst'

fallback 2
find --set-root /boot/grub/menu.lst

Error 17: File not found
Booting 'find /grub/menu.lst

fallback 3
find --set-root /grub/menu.lst


I booted KNOPPIX from CD and found out that the USB dongle is sdb1. In the linux.bat I changed \boot\grub\sda1.bat to \boot\grub\sdb1.bat >> no success, same error.

I renamed the folders and some files with lower case letters >> no success, same error.

I booted with Lilo >> IT DOES! But not the whole KNOPPIX.

It starts with Uncompressing Linux... Ok, booting the kernel. Then KNOPPIX finds some devices and so on. The last messages are:
Probing/Loading AGP modules ...
Starting the X Window System...
Well, then the screen is black, the USB dongle still works a few seconds, and then >> nothing. I waited a few minutes. The monitor turns not into standby and when I press a key on the keyboard the USB dongle works one second and then no more, so I have to reset the computer.

So, dear Gilles, have you any idea?

Thank a lot, again.

Marcel

[ruymbeke]

... I booted KNOPPIX from CD and found out that the USB dongle is sdb1. In the linux.bat I changed \boot\grub\sda1.bat to \boot\grub\sdb1.bat >> no success, same error.
Since your USB dongle is seen as /dev/sdb1, to make it boot with grub you will need then to modify the autoexec.bat file as follow: --config-file=(hd0,0)/boot/grub/menu.lst ==> --config-file=(hd1,0)/boot/grub/menu.lst
which means that the data of your usb dongle is located on the first partition of the second disk device (sdb1)
Then when you have the grub menu, you will need to select the second boot option (boot ISO from sdb1)


I booted with Lilo >> IT DOES! But not the whole KNOPPIX.
It starts with Uncompressing Linux... Ok, booting the kernel.
Then KNOPPIX finds some devices and so on. The last messages are:
Probing/Loading AGP modules ... Starting the X Window System...
Well, then the screen is black, the USB dongle still works a few seconds, and then >> nothing...
This most likely not related to the boot process but more to the cheatcodes used in the kernel boot line.
Since the boot from the cd/dvd is working, I would like to suggest you to add the vga=791 cheatcode
at the end of the kernel line in both the menu.lst for grub and in the sdb1.bat for lilo (in the /boot/grub directory).
BTW, I updated my zip to make it easier for everybofy by havig 4 boot options: grub/lilo with sda1/sdb1:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/usb_dgle1.zip
Hope this helps and please let me know if this is working for you.
Cheers, Gilles

[marft]

Since your USB dongle is seen as /dev/sdb1, to make it boot with grub you will need then to modify the autoexec.bat file as follow: --config-file=(hd0,0)/boot/grub/menu.lst ==> --config-file=(hd1,0)/boot/grub/menu.lst

Sorry, I didn't mentioned that, but that's one thing I have tried yesterday, too. I tried (hd0,1) an (hd1,0), also in the menu.lst. The result was always the same (error 17 with grub/black screen with lilo).
I also deleted all cheatcodes in the menu.lst, but not in the sdb1.bat (since it was 02:30 in the night).

Also important: I never got the choice between sda1 and sdb1 in the boot menu. I have to adjust that in the linux.bat. The only menu where I can choose anything is the DOS menu (select grub or lilo).

Of course, I will try your new files and your tipps later today.

Thanks so much!
Marcel

[sgbeamer]

I had been trying to do this for a week using syslinux. I got it to work with Feather Linux USB specific distro but was unable to get the full Knoppix distro to work.

[ruymbeke]

I have updated my ISO boot on a USB dongle ( http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93758#93758 )
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/usb_dgle3.zip including a new ramdisk:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/minirt_iso.gz which is an improved version of the minirt_ntfs/reiser.gz

If the kernel cheatcode BOOTFROM is not pointing to the correct device but the path is still correct,
the linux script linuxrc will now search for an alternate device+partition to boot the ISO from
and will also propose you to update the BOOTFROM cheatcode with a working syntax.

I noticed this problem with my T43 Thinkpad where the bios recognize my USB dongle as the first hdd
and will require the following grub notation in the menu.lst "(hd0,0)" to load the kernel and ramdisk.
But the linux kernel recognize the USB dongle as the second hdd (the first one being the 2.5" hdd)
and in order to load Knoppix from the ISO, it will require the kernel cheatcode BOOTFROM=/dev/sdb1
I would have expected the bios and the linux kernel to enumerate the hdd devices the same way
either (hd0,0) & /dev/sda1 or (hd1,0) & /dev/sdb1, but there is a trouble maker missmatch.
I know that this is a little bit confusing, and this was a good reason for me
to implement a work around in the linuxrc boot script.
I hope that this will help some of you.
Please give me some feedback.
Cheers, Gilles

Edit: I found a bug in the minirt_iso.gz preventing in some cases to properly enumerate the alternate devices
(problem with ash and the linuxrc boot script). Links are updated with the fix. (usb_dgle3.zip)

[blazercist]

Hello I'm new to linux and these forums so bare with me please.

I've just installed Knoppix 402 on a 7 GB Linux ext2 partition on the 1st device on my 2nd IDE cable, I kno the ISO I used for the install was working because I could boot Knoppix from a CD which I created using that ISO. I installed to HD from that disc and everything seemed fine. I rebooted the computer after install and grub loader prompted me to choose an OS, when I chose the default kernel version of Knoppix I get the error in the subject line of this post.

I read through this string and attempted to download and copy grbldr.txt to my C: folder in windows, when that yeilded no result I lost my patience and attempted to convert my linux partition to an active logical drive, this messed up something in either grubloader or most likely MBR because on reboot I got the error 22 or maybe it was 20? when grubloader started and I was stuck before I could choose an OS. Using the XP disc I installed a fresh copy of MBR and viola Windows began to work again. HOWEVER, now I get no prompt to chose an OS, leading me to beileve that I have removed grubloader from MBR, which makes sense to me...

So what I am asking really is how do I get grubloader back and how do I fix this kernel panic error? Since I am new to linux all this gobble gook I read makes no sense to me If someone can give a step by step for a Window Defector like myself I would greatly appreciate it.

Edit: the error I got when I could use grubloader and selected default knoppix was "Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on ram3" just to clarify.

Also, I apoligize if I haven't posted in the right place or my question has already been answered, please forgive me as I am new.

[ruymbeke]

Please find below the link to my latest Knoppix 4.02 boot ramdisk:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/minirt_iso.gz
and the ISO boot on a USB dongle package:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/usb_dgle3.zip
I fixed a problem with ash and the linuxrc boot script preventing in some cases (to be honest, in most cases but mine)
to properly enumerate the alternate boot devices with an iso file located within the same path.
Cheers, Gilles

[ruymbeke]

... So what I am asking really is how do I get grubloader back ?
You can use grub started from the XP bootloader (boot.ini + grldr, cf this forum thread)
==> do not mofify the XP mbr nor boot sector ==> safe and clean.

Or you can boot from the knoppix cd/dvd or any other distro with a grub installer and run grub-install
==> will modify yout mbr and will probably mess up your XP boot config.

BTW, there are quite a lot of posts in this forum talking about this subject...
Good Luck, Gilles

[marft]

Dear Gilles,

it doesn't work. It's always the same: error 17 with grub/black screen with lilo.
Maybe interesting for you: If I directly write in the grub command line the first few commands of the sdb1.bat ("kernel (hd1,0)/boot/knoppix.402/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init"), the following messages return:
With (hd0,0) >> "Error 17: File not found"
with (hd0,1) >> "Erroro 19: Cannot mount selected partition"
with (hd1,0) >> Error 23: Selected disk does not exist"
with (hd1,1) >> Error 23: Selected disk does not exist"

I have no idea. My SATA hdd has two partitions. I even disabled the onboard SATA controller and all IDE devices (four dvd writer). I unfortunately don't have another USB bootable computer.

When KNOPPIX boots (with Lilo) the bootscreen shows that the knoppix.iso was found. It's crazy.


With kind regards
Marcel

[ruymbeke]

... With (hd0,0) >> "Error 17: File not found" ...
So if I understand this right, you can start grub from the usb dongle but grub cannot load knoppix, is this right ?
(The usb device can only be seen by grub, if you boot grub from that usb device, a cd or hd grub boot will not see the usb dongle)
If that the case, it means that grub recognize the disk/partition but do not see the kernel file. Maybe a upper/lower case issue.
In your case, the best thing to do, is to use the autocompletion mode of grub to find out what is wrong:
type: "kernel (hd," + the_tab_key, and grub will list all the hdd availbale.
type: "kernel (hd0," + the_tab_key, and grub will list all the partitons available on the first disk.
type: "kernel (hd0,0)/" + the_tab_key, and grub will list all directory/files on the first partition of the first disk and so on...
Use this geat feature of grub to find/verify the path of your linux kernel and minirt_iso.gz files and then update your menu.lst


When KNOPPIX boots (with Lilo) the bootscreen shows that the knoppix.iso was found. It's crazy...
Are you talking about the first lilo menu of my setup ? booting from the USB dongle ? So you can boot Knoppix using lilo (sda1.bat) but not grub ?
Best Regards,
Gilles

[marft]

So if I understand this right, you can start grub from the usb dongle but grub cannot load knoppix, is this right ?
When I boot with Grub the error 17 and the fallback occur as I described. And after the third fallback the Grub command line appears.


(The usb device can only be seen by grub, if you boot grub from that usb device, a cd or hd grub boot will not see the usb dongle)
It seems that Grub can't see any partition of my hdd and of my usb dongle. When I try to access to (hd0,0) for example it should at least recognize the first partition of my hdd if not the usb dongle, I think.


In your case, the best thing to do ...
I will try out this as soon as possible. Thanks a lot!


Are you talking about the first lilo menu of my setup ?
No. When I boot from your DOS menu with the option "Lilo sda1" (or so) then it works well, too. Lilo loads the initrd and the kernel, the kernel doesn't find the compressed image on sda1, searches, and finds it on sdb1. Then KNOPPIX boots until "Starting the X Window System..." - and then black screen. The CD which I have burned with the same image works fine, so the image should be okay.
Until now I've never seen your Lilo boot menu. The only menu I know is the DOS menu.


Thanks!
Marcel

[ruymbeke]

...When I boot from your DOS menu with the option "Lilo sda1" (or so) then it works well, too. Lilo loads the initrd and the kernel, the kernel doesn't find the compressed image on sda1, searches, and finds it on sdb1.
So both (lilo) dos boot option are working: lilo sda1 and lilo sdb1. I assume that sdb1 boots without any problem and sda1 complains about the wrong location for the iso image file then my linuxrc script will find it on sdb1 and will use it to boot Knoppix from it. (if you use the latest initrd_iso.gz)


...Then KNOPPIX boots until "Starting the X Window System..." - and then black screen...
I believe that this has nothing to do with the boot process but is more related to the kernel boot options or cheatcodes parameters that are given to the kernel by the bootlader: in the kernel line of the menu.lst or in the lilo command line of the sd(a/b)1.bat file. Remember that Lilo has a command line length limitation or in other words Lilo will ignore the end of the command line if it is too long. So you better start with the key parameters.
As for comparison, the cd default parameters are as follow: (without the kernel and ramdisk references)
ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=791 nomce quiet BOOT_IMAGE=knoppix
And the sdb1.bat parameters are as follow: (without the kernel and ramdisk references)
ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init bootfrom=/dev/sdb1/boot/knoppix.402/*.iso vga=791 lang=us quiet apm=power-off nomce noprompt
When you start Knoppix from the cd, do you need type in any special cheatcode or are you using the default settings by just typing the "enter" key ?


Until now I've never seen your Lilo boot menu. The only menu I know is the DOS menu.
Lilo has no menu or interactive mode. I was referring to the dos menu allowing you to select which dos macro .bat file to run.
Best Regards,
Gilles

[marft]

When you start Knoppix from the cd, do you need type in any special cheatcode or are you using the default settings by just typing the "enter" key ?
Yes, just pressing the [Enter] button works if I boot from CD. But I almost always enter cheatcodes, too. Well, when I type in cheatcodes I have to write "knoppix" at first, for example: knoppix screen=800x600 dma >> That's not necesary for the cheatcodes of boot managers?? And in your usb_dgle3.zip you write some filenames with capital letters, but in the bat-files you write every filename and directory with small letters >> I think, Linux is case sensitive??


Thanks!
Marcel

[marft]

In your case, the best thing to do, is to use the autocompletion mode of grub to find out what is wrong:
type: "kernel (hd," + the_tab_key, and grub will list all the hdd availbale.
I bootet from the usb dongle with grub and after the three fallback errors I tried the grub commands you told me. I got the following results:

kernel (hd, >> Error 25: Error while parsing number

kernel (hd0, >> Partition num 0:, Filesystem is ntfs, partition type 0x7
Partition num 4:, Filesystem is ntfs, partition type 0x7

kernel (hd1, >> Error 23: Selected disk does not exist

kernel (hd0,0)/ >> Possible files are [files of my partition C: of the sata hdd]

kernel (, >> Possible partitions are:
Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x68
Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x79
Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x53
Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x49
Filesystem type unknown, using whole disk

--> Oh! The usb donlge light flashes! I entered the last command a few times and voilÃ*! >> Possible disks are: fd0 fd1 ... but I had no further success.

kernel (fd0)/ >> usb dongle light flashes, but >> Error 19: Cannot mount the selected partition

kernel (fd0,0)/ >> Error 12: Unrecognized device string

kernel (fd0,1)/ >> Error 12: Unrecognized device string

kernel (fd1)/ >> system hangs, I have to reset the computer



Hope that brings a little light in the darkness.

Greetings
Marcel

[ruymbeke]

...kernel (fd0)/ >> usb dongle light flashes, but >> Error 19: Cannot mount the selected partition...
Did you use the HPUSBFW.EXE program to reformat your usb dongle ?
It looks like that your usb dongle is recognized by the bios of your pc as a floppy (fd0) and not as a hdd (hd0) and that would explain why lilo will boot and grub is confused. A hdd have a partition table that a floppy has not. Lilo read files using dos system calls, grub is accessing devices at bloc level without using the dos and is not expecting a partition table on a floppy device. Maybe a new beta version of grub.exe may help, could you please replace it on your dongle and let me know ? http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grub.exe

To solve your X problem (black screen after kernel autodetection), try to add some cheatcodes in the sdb1.bat file, as screen=800x600. But do not add this cheatcode at the end since the end of the command line may be truncated...

Are both lilo sda1 and lilo sdb1 boot options working ?

PS: Lilo.exe (dos program) do not care about the upper/lower case of filenames. Lilo.exe will load the kernel and the initrd~1.gz ramdisk (initrd_iso.gz in the 8 dos characters format). But once the Linux kernel is loaded, the filename case will matter !
Cheers, Gilles

[marft]

Did you use the HPUSBFW.EXE program to reformat your usb dongle ?
Yes, of course. The thing is that I can only select USB ZIP and USB FLOPPY in the BIOS boot menu. But there seems to be no difference between the choices.


Maybe a new beta version of grub.exe may help, could you please replace it on your dongle and let me know ?
I will do so.


To solve your X problem
I will try it.


Are both lilo sda1 and lilo sdb1 boot options working ?
After the adaptations? I will report it to you.


Thanks!
Marcel

[ruymbeke]

I have put together all the files required to boot Knoppix 4.02 from a USB dongle or from a NT/XP NTFS partition.
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grubf.zip
Please note that the boot files will also work from FAT and REISER partitions and
in case of the wrong device is used in the bootfrom cheatcode,
the linuxrc boot script will automatically search for the ISO on an other device.
Best Regards,
Gilles

[marft]

Dear Gilles,

I'm sorry, but currently I have a little bit stress and no 1-GB-usb dongle. In about one or two weeks I can try again to boot Knoppix from usb dongle. By the way, I think the problem is my computer, since I have tested to boot Slax from three different usb dongles - without any succes. Slax has an own install assistant to install it on a usb device.


Thanks a lot so far!
Marcel

[ruymbeke]

Hello,
I modified the linuxrc boot script to setup the hostname at boot time (kernel cheatcode: hostname=mymachine)
I updated my minirt_iso.gz ramdisk with this new linuxrc:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/minirt_host.gz
So Knoppix can now be booted from the official ISO being on a FAT/EXT/Reiser/NTFS partition or USB donge
with a custom hostname given in the kernel command name by using the hostname= cheatcode.
Give it a try and please give me some feedback.
Thanks,
Gilles

[ruymbeke]

Hello,
I now have added the option to use dynamic hostnames using the following hostname= kernel cheatcodes:
hostname=auto-clock -> knoppix-200512031753 (date+time)
hostname=auto-mac -> knoppix-123456789012 (eth0 mac address)
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/minirt_host.gz (I just replaced the old one)
Give it a try and please give me some feedback.
Thanks,
Gilles

[maxrep]

I have this running on my T43 Thinkpad which is using a serial ata interface and a buggy sata/pata bridge to the pata hdd. So there is no problem with centrino notebooks or sata interfaces but yes old version of grldr do not always work with 2k. Please use one of the latest version from http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grldr
About your boot problem, you have to put the grldr file into the root of your XP partition which is the C drive as it was called at the time of the XP install and you cannot rename or move the grldr file. This is a limitation of the ntldr XP boot code. Now to boot knoppix from the iso on the hdd you will need to use the initrd_ntfs.gz or initrd_reiser.gz ramdisk (fat,ext,nfts+reiser support) instead of the initrd.gz ramdisk off the cd, cf: http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402.zip or http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402r.zip
Last thing, you will need to have the XP partition as the primary active partition (first boot loader code run from the bios).
Hope this helps, regards, Gilles

Hi Gilles:
This is an awesome tool for trying all the variants of LiveCD's on NT! Would you please post the URL to the source code for your modified minirt_iso.gz and the kernel(/boot/linux) if you don't mind? I'd like to modify it to boot Ubuntu Live from the ISO.
Thanks.

[ruymbeke]

Hi Gilles:
This is an awesome tool for trying all the variants of LiveCD's on NT! Would you please post the URL to the source code for your modified minirt_iso.gz and the kernel(/boot/linux) if you don't mind? I'd like to modify it to boot Ubuntu Live from the ISO.
Thanks.
You can find the source code of grldr (grub 4 dos) in here:
http://grub4dos.sourceforge.net/ and http://sarovar.org/projects/grub4dos/
The linux kernel is the same as on the Knoppix cd.
The various kernel modules/drivers and tools I have added in the the minirt_host.gz,
(the latest version of my boot ramdisk) are all comming from the Knoppix ISO cd.
The modified linuxrc boot script file can easily be extracted from the minirtr_host.gz file
using the following command line "mount -o loop minirt_host dir" (first gunzip the minirt_host.gz file)
Hope this helps, and please keep me posted on your results/progress...
Gilles

[ruymbeke]

The Knoppix 4.02 cd and dvd release have a typo bug in the linuxrc boot script
which prevent the USB port to work in the USB2 high speed mode.
Only the USB1 compatible mode was enabled having about 1MB/Sec
of transfert rate instead of the +20MB/Sec as expected.
This is really ennoying, especially when booting Knoppix
from the ISO cd image located on a USB dongle or an external USB HDD.
cf: http://lists.debian.org/debian-knoppix/2005/12/msg00031.html
Thank you Sergej for the patch.
I have patched the linuxrc boot script and updated the minirt boot script.
Please find below the download link: (ntfs, reiser, iso, host & usb2)
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/minirt_usb2.gz
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/usb_dgle4.zip (for usb dongle)
Best Regards,
Gilles

[ruymbeke]

Just a little clarification, since it looks like I intoduced some confusion about the added features of my alternate boot ramdisks.
The minirt_usb2.gz boot ramdisk includes a few features not available from the minirt.gz off the cd.
Firts, it will allow you to boot Knoppix from an ISO file located on fat12/16/32, ext2/3 or reiser partition (ntfs and reiser added).
In case of a wrong device name, the boot script will automatically search for an other working device with the same directory path,
boot from it, and suggest you to update your kernel boot command line with the working device. (bootfrom=)
Then, it will allow you to change the Knoppix hostname of the machine for a fixed or dynamic hostname (network_hw_address or time)
Finally it includes a bug fix for using the USB2.0 kernel module on USB2.0 hardware (instead of always using the slow USB1 kernel module)
which allows to boot way faster from a high speed USB disk or dongle.
I have changed the name of the boot ramdisks every time I have added a new features, which may be a little confusing,
but in fact, all the previous added features have always been and still are included in the new update.
As an example, the minirt_usb2.gz adds usb2 support to the previous iso boot, ntfs, reiser, auto search, and hostname features.
Happy new year,
Gilles

[mikekgr]

Thanks a lot

Best Regards,
Mike Kranidis.

[OP4Latino]

Hi. I'm trying to help a guy in the kanotix forum http://kanotix.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=85884#85884 doing a Kanotix Win PMI and the link for the grldr is broken. Glazing this thread I found it at http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grldr however, that link downloads a grldr with 143 kb size. The one I have currently is 172kb with date Aug 9/05. Is the 143 kb the current one?

Ps. My hasn't give me any trouble at all booting all knoppix and kanotix flavor

[ruymbeke]

Hi. I'm trying to help a guy in the kanotix forum http://kanotix.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=85884#85884 doing a Kanotix Win PMI and the link for the grldr is broken. Glazing this thread I found it at http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grldr however, that link downloads a grldr with 143 kb size. The one I have currently is 172kb with date Aug 9/05. Is the 143 kb the current one?
Ps. My hasn't give me any trouble at all booting all knoppix and kanotix flavor
Yes.
I compiled the old one with network pxe support and the new one doesn't.
The new one has some bug fixes added, but since the network support
has nothing to do with the ntfs support, either one should work just as well.
Cheers, Gilles

[OP4Latino]

Thank you, Gilles

[ruymbeke]

Hello,
Please find a bug fix (/etc/hosts updated with hostname) in here:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/minirt_usb3.gz
This should solve the issue with the su command and the slow response
of samba when using hostname=... as a cheatcode (thanks firnsy & trevmar)
cf: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=98893#98893
As always, I would apreciate some feedback...
Best Regards,
Gilles

PS: I also updated:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/usb_dgle5.zip
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402u.zip
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grubg.zip

[ruymbeke]

Hello,
Please find an other bug fix:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/minirt_usb4.gz
This should solve the issue found in the knoppix-autoconfig script
which was preventing the use of an ext2 persistent home directory.
cf: http://lists.debian.org/debian-knoppix/2005/12/msg00028.html
I just realize that in fact, the boot ramdisk (minirt file) can be used to patch
almost everything you need, preventing the need to remaster the 700MB Knoppix file to fix a bug !
So no more need to redownload 700MB of data to fix a bug requiring only a couple of bytes to be changed.
For technical details: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=96888#96888
Notes about making a new CD using grldr (grub) with the minirt_usb4.gz intead of isolinux: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=98981#98981
(grldr can be found in the grubh.zip file below)
As always, I would apreciate some feedback...
Best Regards,
Gilles

PS: I also updated:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/usb_dgle6.zip
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402u.zip
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grubh.zip

[ICPUG]

Gilles,

When I use the new grldr file from grubh on my laptop it fails

It starts off clearing the screen and then displays quickly:

Try (hd0,0) : NTFS :
Launching GRUB

Before clearing the screen again and then displaying the following messages:

Booting 'find /menu.lst'

Find --set-root /menu.lst

It then hangs and I have to power off.

My grldr of 172K dated 06/10/2004 works fine with no screen displays.

I have my menu.lst file located in c:\boot\grub

Ah! Maybe this is the problem. I relocate menu.lst to c:\ and try again and ... yes, it works!

Can you confirm that with this new grldr, menu.lst MUST BE located in c:\? I got the distinct impression reading this topic that it could be located in a few places, c:\boot\grub among them.

What about using the grub.exe when running Windows 98. Where does menu.lst have to be located then? If I understand grubh it seems that BOTH grub.exe and menu.lst are in c:\boot\grub. Previously, I had grub.exe in c:\ and menu.lst in c:\boot\grub. Do they both have to be in the same directory now?

It is a while since I have been in this forum. I have been using your files all the time, since you created them, to load various versions of Knoppix, Kanotix and now Puppy Linux off the hard drive. I came back to get the latest versions of the files. It took me quite some time working through the 35 pages of topic to determine which are the latest files now!

Can you confirm that the latest files are in one or other of:
Grubh.zip
Usb_dgle6.zip
Kno402u.zip

Can you confirm the following files mentioned in this topic are now defunct and replaced by the 3 files mentioned above:
Kno402.zip
Kno402r.zip
Minrt_reiser.gz
Minirt_iso.gz
Minirt_host.gz
Minirt_usb2.gz
Minirt_usb3.gz
Grubg.zip

Finally can you confirm that grube.zip is only current for getting the minirt etc for Knoppix versions 3.6/3.7/3.8.1. The grub stuff can be taken from grubh.zip instead and still work with these old versions. (If this is the case, maybe they should be hived off into kno360.zip and grube can be pensioned off).

The equivalent file for Knoppix version 3.8.2 / 3.9 is knoppix382.zip?

I must say I found the directory structure of grubh confusing. There is a \boot\knoppix.402 in 3 different places. My assumption is that files in \boot\knoppix.402 are common to both the NTFS and USB installs. If this assumption is correct I think it would be less confusing to simply copy the files twice in the NTFS and USB sections and delete the \boot\knoppix.402 altogether. Better still, remove the USB from grubh as well. Grubh is then used solely to get the files for an NTFS install and Usb_dgle6 is used to get files for a USB install. If this is done you might need another zip file to hold the files needed for a Win9x install.

If I get really radical and say separate the grub stuff from the minirt and kernel stuff it then becomes simple to get the files you want, according to taste, and the instructions are simple:

1) Choose your grub file according to device on which to be installed (the file names could be changed to be more sensible):

NTFS: grubh (=grubntfs)
USB: usb_dgle6 (=grubusb)
Win9x: grub9x

2) Copy files from the zip to the root of the device (EXCEPT boot.ini ..... )

3) Edit boot.ini (for NTFS) or autoexec.bat / config.sys (for Win9x)

4) Choose your Knoppix minrt file according to version:

kno360.zip
kno382.zip
kno402.zip

5) Copy the files from the Knoppix minirt to the \boot\knoppix directory

This approach has an advantage to you as well. When a new version of Knoppix appears you simply create a new minirt file. You only worry about the grub files when grub is updated or you want to add a new installation device.

I may be sounding pernickety in the above, but after reading through 35 pages of stuff and finding the wiki file is now slightly out of date it is all somewhat confusing and needs some rationalisation.

I thanked you, Gilles, when you first came up with this technique back in the version 3.6 days. I thank you again for sticking with it through all the upgrades. It is an amazing service that you provide. When you look at some of the forums for other distros you get the same questions coming up that you solved ages ago for Knoppix.

We are deeply in your debt.

ICPUG

[ruymbeke]

ICPUG,
Thank you very much for your feedback.
I agree with most of your comments and questions.
I am very busy now and cannot write a long reply at this time.
But I will try to follow your advise asap
and plan on updating and cleaning up the wiki pages,
and adding a summary at the begin of this forum thread
with links to the latest updates and a list of the added features.
Best Regards,
Gilles

[corky]

I wonder if anyone can help me out, i have used the latest dgle6.zip file to prepare a usb pen drive, followed the instructions and it all works like a charm. Knoppix loads up fine.

The only 2 things i am stumped with is this..

1 ) i can't get into the admin/root settings because it always asks for a password, i don't know what it is ?, so i done su, then passwd in the shell window and set up a new one, but it's back to the unknown password when i reboot ?

2) i can't save settings because i can't write to the usb pen drive. I can't set the read/write access in the knoppix menu because i suppose it booted up from the usb pen drive, it won't allow it. How can i change this so i can save any changes also on the pen drive. ie, langauge, time zone, etc.

Thanks Colin..

[ruymbeke]

I wonder if anyone can help me out, i have used the latest dgle6.zip file to prepare a usb pen drive, followed the instructions and it all works like a charm. Knoppix loads up fine.
The only 2 things i am stumped with is this..
1 ) i can't get into the admin/root settings because it always asks for a password, i don't know what it is ?, so i done su, then passwd in the shell window and set up a new one, but it's back to the unknown password when i reboot ?
2) i can't save settings because i can't write to the usb pen drive. I can't set the read/write access in the knoppix menu because i suppose it booted up from the usb pen drive, it won't allow it. How can i change this so i can save any changes also on the pen drive. ie, langauge, time zone, etc.
Thanks Colin..
Hi Colin,
1) As far as I remember, there is no root password, so when a pwd is asked, just press enter.
2) from a root shell, try to use: mount -f -o remount,rw /cdrom2.loop (/cdrom2.loop is your usb dongle)
Be aware that moving the iso file on your usb key from the running Knoppix is probably a bad idea...
Hope this helps,
Gilles

[bandoba]

Hi ICPUG,

You have written a great summary to use the files created by Gilles. Thanks a ton for that.

Now, I have been using Knoppix (booting off from NTFS) for last year or so. Everything works fine except on my new laptop IBM Thinkpad T43. I saw a comment in one of the posts that it works fine on that laptop but somehow I couldn't get this to work. Please note that the required files are in correct location e.g. I have made sure that there menu.lst file in root along with new grldr. Here is how the screen looks when I see the error...



Welcome to KNOPPIX...

Scanning for USB/Firewall devices... Done.
Looking for CD&DVD in: /dev/hdh16
Looking for /dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.402/*.iso: DEVICE doesn't exist, search now for alternate locations:
Looking for /dev/sda1/boot/knoppix.402/*.iso: Ok
Please update the kernel cheatcode BOOTFROM=/dev/sda1/boot/knoppix.402/*.iso
Use of this ISO: /dev/sda1/boot/knoppix.402/*.iso
mount: Mounting /cdrom2.loop/boot/knoppix.402/KNOPPIX_V4.0.2CD-2005-09-23-EN.iso on /cdrom2 failed: No such device
Can't find KNOPPIX filesyste, sorry.
Dropping you to a (very limited) shell.
Press reset button to quit.


Can you tell me what can be wrong? I did try with a modified menu.lst which has BOOTFROM=/dev/sda1/... instead of BOOTFROM=/dev/hda1/.... Still no success and same error.

Thanks a ton Gilles and ICPUG.

[ruymbeke]

... Now, I have been using Knoppix (booting off from NTFS) for last year or so. Everything works fine except on my new laptop IBM Thinkpad T43. I saw a comment in one of the posts that it works fine on that laptop but somehow I couldn't get this to work. Please note that the required files are in correct location e.g. I have made sure that there menu.lst file in root along with new grldr. Here is how the screen looks when I see the error...
Can you tell me what can be wrong? ...
I have it working on my T43 corporate computer.
The main drive of the T43 is using the sata interface of the chipset with a sata/pata bridge.
This means that you have to use the BOOTFROM=/dev/sda1/...
instead of of BOOTFROM=/dev/hda1/... , but you have figured this out already.
I also assume that you are using the latest minirt_usb4.gz.
Since you have the linuxrc boot script running (cf your messages), the kernel and the initrd boot ramdisk
have already been loaded and run successfully by grub (grldr) which means that the ntfs boot with grub
is working properly and that the problem is most likely with your ISO file.
(At this point the Linux kernel and the Linux ntfs driver module are already running)
Did you verify the integrity (md5) of your iso file ?
Did you verify the iso filename (upper/lower) case ? (the iso filename casing has to match)
What is the exact content of your menu.lst ?
I hope this helps,
Gilles

FYI, Lenovo introduced a very nasty bug with the sata/pata bridge.
This bridge is buggy and prevents you to upgrade the hdd (non IBM hdd) without data corruption
unless you use one of the latest high end Seagate drive.
They basically screw up the design of the bridge so bad without the ability of a fw upgrade
that IBM had to put the fix into the hdd, reason why only IBM/Hitachi hdd purchased from Lenovo
are working without the infamous 2010 bios error and without data corruption.
I found out that Seagate integrated the patch in their new high end hdd
to improve the compatibility of their retail products. Some Lenovo customers have been
so frustrated by their poor customer support that they created a very interesting forum:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=11059&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=240
Have fun ...

[bandoba]

... Now, I have been using Knoppix (booting off from NTFS) for last year or so. Everything works fine except on my new laptop IBM Thinkpad T43. I saw a comment in one of the posts that it works fine on that laptop but somehow I couldn't get this to work. Please note that the required files are in correct location e.g. I have made sure that there menu.lst file in root along with new grldr. Here is how the screen looks when I see the error...
Can you tell me what can be wrong? ...
I have it working on my T43 corporate computer.
The main drive of the T43 is using the sata interface of the chipset with a sata/pata bridge.
This means that you have to use the BOOTFROM=/dev/sda1/...
instead of of BOOTFROM=/dev/hda1/... , but you have figured this out already.
I also assume that you are using the latest minirt_usb4.gz.
Since you have the linuxrc boot script running (cf your messages), the kernel and the initrd boot ramdisk
have already been loaded and run successfully by grub (grldr) which means that the ntfs boot with grub
is working properly and that the problem is most likely with your ISO file.
(At this point the Linux kernel and the Linux ntfs driver module are already running)
Did you verify the integrity (md5) of your iso file ?
Did you verify the iso filename (upper/lower) case ? (the iso filename casing has to match)
What is the exact content of your menu.lst ?


Here is my menu.lst...



################################################## ####
# GvR January 20th 2006
color black/cyan yellow/cyan
timeout=5
default=0

# Knoppix 4.02 ISO Boot from a NTFS (FAT/REISER) hdd partition:
# All the files within the directory "Root_Of_NTFS" of the grubf.zip
# have to be copied into the root of the NTFS NT boot partition c:\
# Add the line "c:\grldr="Start Grub" at the end of your boot.ini
# (the file _boot.ini is here just as an example)
# Copy the 700MB knoppix ISO file into c:\boot\knoppix.402\ directory
# Reboot and have fun...

title Default Boot on HD 0
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
chainloader +1
boot

title Knoppix 4.02 from hda1 ISO
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.402/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.402/*.iso vga=791 noprompt apm=power-off nomce quiet lang=us config=scan home=scan
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.402/minirt_usb4.gz
boot

title Knoppix 4.02 from sda1 ISO
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.402/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init bootfrom=/dev/sda1/boot/knoppix.402/*.iso vga=791 noprompt apm=power-off nomce quiet lang=us config=scan home=scan
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.402/minirt_usb4.gz
boot

title Memory test
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/memtest

title Default Boot on HD 0
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
chainloader +1
boot

#title Dos Rescue from Floppy image 2.88Mb
# map --mem (hd0,0)/boot/rescue.img (fd0)
# map --hook
# chainloader (fd0)+1
# rootnoverify (fd0)
# boot
################################################## ####


Secondly, I checked the MD5 checksum for the iso file and it is good. The file name KNOPPIX_V4.0.2CD-2005-09-23-EN.iso. I think that is correct since all of this works fine on other machines I have except T43.

Even booting off the flash drive doesn't work on T43 for some reason. Do I need some specific settings in BIOS or anywhere else? Am I missing something above?

[bandoba]

Even booting off the flash drive doesn't work on T43 for some reason. Do I need some specific settings in BIOS or anywhere else? Am I missing something above?

What I said above is not correct. It does boot from flash drive. I was wrongly selecting /dev/sda1 when booting off the flash drive but on T43, I should have selected /dev/sdb1 instead. So at least I can see KNOPPIX now! Thanks to Gilles.

Now, can we find out why it can't mount ISO file from /dev/sda1/ i.e. from NTFS partition on hard drive?

[ruymbeke]

What I said above is not correct. It does boot from flash drive. I was wrongly selecting /dev/sda1 when booting off the flash drive but on T43, I should have selected /dev/sdb1 instead. So at least I can see KNOPPIX now! Thanks to Gilles.
Now, can we find out why it can't mount ISO file from /dev/sda1/ i.e. from NTFS partition on hard drive?
I am a little puzzled. I have it working on a lot of different XP platforms, so it should work...
Just as a quick test suggestion, could you please try to remove the "config=scan home=scan" cheatcodes ?
As an other test, could you boot from the usb dongle but use the iso from your ntfs partition ? (cheatcode bootfrom)
and try the contrary, boot from XP but load the iso from your usb dongle...
Thanks, Gilles

[bandoba]

I am a little puzzled. I have it working on a lot of different XP platforms, so it should work...
Just as a quick test suggestion, could you please try to remove the "config=scan home=scan" cheatcodes ?

I still see same problem with or without config=scan and home=scan cheatcodes.



As an other test, could you boot from the usb dongle but use the iso from your ntfs partition ? (cheatcode bootfrom)

I get very similar error as I mentioned in my previous post. Before error text, it does say something like

Looking for /dev/sda1/boot/knoppix.402/*.iso: Ok

So it seems like it can see the ISO file correctly. BTW, I tried mount just /dev/sda1 and it mounted fine. I could browse through it. The thing I noticed is the path to the iso file is BOOT/knoppix.402 and not boot/knoppix.402 as mentioned in menu.lst. But this shouldn't be a problem since it works with similar setup on all other machines.



and try the contrary, boot from XP but load the iso from your usb dongle...
Thanks, Gilles
This works fine - just as booting off the USB dongle and selecting /dev/sdb1 works fine.

[ruymbeke]

...The thing I noticed is the path to the iso file is BOOT/knoppix.402 and not boot/knoppix.402 as mentioned in menu.lst...
I would actually recommend to have a matching case for the pathname. (rename the xp BOOT directory to boot)
If that would fix it, I may have to improve the linuxrc script...
Thanks,Gilles

[Harry Kuhman]

If that would fix it, I may have to improve the linuxrc script...
I don't know if that is the problem or not, but why change the script? Linux by nature is case sensitive. There is no point in hiding that. BOOT and boot should be different under Linux; making a script that couldn't tell the difference or worse would use the wrong one would not be considered a fix by many people.

[bandoba]

...The thing I noticed is the path to the iso file is BOOT/knoppix.402 and not boot/knoppix.402 as mentioned in menu.lst...
I would actually recommend to have a matching case for the pathname. (rename the xp BOOT directory to boot)
If that would fix it, I may have to improve the linuxrc script...
Thanks,Gilles

Well, I tried this and it doesn't make any difference. Just to make sure we don't see people reporting such issues, I think we can change the case of the BOOT folder in your grubh.zip and kno402.zip files. That way whoever uses those files and just copies over the contents will automatically have the small case for the folder names.

Now back to the problem - so the mystery is still there. Can you guys think of any basic sanity check that would confirm I am not making any mistake?

[ruymbeke]

...making a script that couldn't tell the difference or worse would use the wrong one would not be considered a fix by many people.
My goal is not to hide a problem but to help the user to improve or fix a wrong setup:
as I have done it with the autosearch for alternate device with the same filename path for the iso
I would/will make it work AND with a red comment at boot time, I will urge the user
to update the kernel command line with the correct (suggested) kernel cheatcode.


...Now back to the problem - so the mystery is still there. Can you guys think of any basic sanity check that would confirm I am not making any mistake?
Could you please copy (not move) the iso file in the ntfs root, modify the menu.lst accordingly and try again ?
Thanks,
Gilles

[Harry Kuhman]

My goal is not to hide a problem but to help the user to improve or fix a wrong setup:
as I have done it with the autosearch for alternate device with the same filename path for the iso
I would/will make it work AND with a red comment at boot time, I will urge the user
to update the kernel command line with the correct (suggested) kernel cheatcode.
I'm glad that you are not planning on hiding the "problem". I wonder if it is wise to even make it work, but that's more of a personal choice. I would likely try to detect the case problem and if I saw it I would just tell that user that the expected directory or file is not present but warn them that you have found one that looks like the intended name but the case is wrong and let them correct it.

[ICPUG]

Bandoba

Thanks for your kind words about my summary.

Looking at your menu.lst file - there does not seem to be much wrong with it. My equivalent has an additional cheat code (dma), but I don't see why that is necessary. If Gilles latest suggestion does not work I suggest another two possibilities. Please bear in mind that I have no great knowledge of the inner workings of Knoppix. I am just pushing out ideas in the hope that one might work.

First, make the name of the ISO simpler - say knoppix.iso. I have a vague memory of someone writing here on the forum that it helped.

The second suggestion is a bit more drastic and shouldn't be necessary, because Gilles gets things working on the same machine that you have. Nevertheless, it may be worth a go. Instead of trying to get the ISO to work why not try with the cloop file that results when the ISO is burned to a CD. Instead of having the ISO file on the hard drive put the cloop file, which is called KNOPPIX, in its place. The stub required for menu.lst to call the cloop file will be something like:

title Knoppix 4.0.2 from NTFS sda1 cloop scan
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.402/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init nomce lang=us vga=791 noprompt apm=power-off fromhd=/dev/sda1 knoppix_dir=/boot/knoppix.402 knoppix_name=KNOPPIX
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.402/minirt_usb4.gz
boot

The equivalent for my system works for me on my laptop.

Perhaps the sanity check you are asking for is a copy of Gilles menu.lst that works on his Thinkpad.

ICPUG

[bandoba]

ICPUG, thanks for the suggestions. I tried all the things you said and also tried copying iso file to root of NTFS. In all those cases, I got same error.

I then tried cloop file as you suggested and it worked!. There were some problems though like after booting the desktop background was different than normal which I see when I boot using ISO. But other than that it just seems to work like normal. Can you please explain what is this cloop file or may be point me to a page that already explains it?

Anyways, for now I have got it working and it runs amazingly fast on T43. Though not a must, I would still like to know why it didn't work for me using iso file.

Now the 2nd question :) See once you answer people just demand more and more stuff. Can you guys take a look at this thread http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23327. This is about a problem of not able to see hard disk partitions on one of my old machines. I would really appreciate any help on that issue.

Thanks once again. This is just great stuff.

[ICPUG]

Bandoba,

Glad to hear you finally got Knoppix to work from your hard drive with the cloop file.

The cloop file is basically the Knoppix system. The ISO is a disk image, but if you look at the disk it creates it is basically the cloop file, the isolinux boot system to start the cloop file and incidental files, such as various text and html help files.

It does not really matter whether you put the ISO or the cloop file on the hard drive. Obviously the ISO is more convenient because you do not have to burn any CDs. Also, it used to be the only thing that would work on some systems - those with Windows NT for instance. Quite why it does not work for you is a bit of a mystery. Not knowing how the bootfrom cheat code works, it is a bit hard to understand why it should work on some systems and not others. You are just as likely to find the next version of Knoppix will work with the ISO! Its annoying, but I have come to expect this now and as long as a solution can be found I live with it. I think the cloop file might provide a slightly faster system though. I did some tests on my Pentium 350MHz desktop with the time to load the Open Office wordprocessor and it was definitely advantageous to use the cloop file rather than the ISO.

If you want some more details of the technical side of cloop files have a look at the wikipedia entry for cloop at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloop.

I had a look at your other problem and I have made some comment on the other thread.

ICPUG

[bandoba]

Thanks ICPUG. Sorry for the late reply. Somehow I never received a notification that there was a new message on this thread. I will check the CLOOP file info and also your comments on other thread.

[ruymbeke]

Hello,
For who may still be interested in ISO boot, please find below the links to the boot ramdisks (minirt.gz) files
required to boot Knoppix 5.0 & Accelerated Knoppix 4.02 from the ISO cd/dvd file image on the hdd:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/minirt_usb5.gz ===> for Knoppix 5.0
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/minirt_acc.gz ===> for Accelerated Knoppix 4.0.2
Cheers,
Gilles

PS: it looks like that I still have a bug with Knoppix 5.0 (No welcome voice & I cannot open a terminal...)

[ruymbeke]

PS: it looks like that I still have a bug with Knoppix 5.0 (No welcome voice & I cannot open a terminal...)
The stupid bug is now fixed (I was still using the old 4.02 knoppix-autoconfig file).
BTW, the new 5.00 knoppix-autoconfig file still has the bug preventing the use of ext2 partitions.
I have it fixed in the new http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/minirt_usb5.gz
This initrd has to be used with the Knoppix 5.0 CEBIT edition: KNOPPIX_V5.0DVD-2006-02-25-DE.iso
(since it was buggy, I have overwriten the old minirt_usb5.gz with the new working one)
Cheers,
Gilles

[ruymbeke]

Please find below the link to a zip file with the kernel and a menu.lst sample:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno500.zip
Cheers, Gilles

FYI, the minirt_usb5.gz boot ramdisk includes the ext2 bug fix and the custom (fixed or dynamic) hostname add-on:
Cheatcodes: "hostname=myname" or "hostname=auto-clock" (date+time) or "hostname=auto-mac" (eth0 mac address)

[malaire]

Please find below the link to a zip file with the kernel and a menu.lst sample:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno500.zip
Cheers, Gilles

Hello, you said on debian-knoppix list that this can be used to "boot knoppix from the iso file on the hdd", but it's not working on me.



title Knoppix 5.0.0 CEBIT DVD
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.500/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=791 nomce quiet bootfrom=/dev/hdb2/DVD5CEBIT.iso noprompt dma
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.500/minirt_usb5.gz
boot


When booting, it finds /dev/hdb1/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX (this is from 4.0.2 CD) and loads it.
Then it gives few errors "could not load /lib/modules/2.6.15/modules.dep" because these isn't such a file.
Then I get error "DVD5CEBIT.iso is not mountable" (likely because it couldn't load proper modules)
In the end this starts old Knoppix 4.0.2 and not the DVD5CEBIT.iso which it should've started.

Am I doing something wrong here?

!!! UPDATE !!!
This works if I rename /dev/hdb1/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX to /dev/hdb1/KNOPPIX4/KNOPPIX

[poor_mans_knoppix]

Hi Gilles,
I saw your thread in the news - section of the 5.0 - DVD.
I've jsut formatted my HD and set it up with grub instead of loadlin and used your minirt for the bootfrom - cheatcode.
I wasn't able to get the 5.0 working with the normal "fromhd" I was used to; but now it runs smothly using grub and your fixed minirt_usb5.gz.

I must confess - I'didn't read the whole 38-page-thread; is there a chance for your work to get included in the standard Knoppix distribution?
Realy fond of your work - thank's a lot!

Have a nice day!

[mbartol]

I want to ask a question I haven't been able to find on any threads. Here is what I am trying to do and maybe someone can tell me if it is possible or not.

First let me explain what I want to accomplish. I want to be able to do compatibility testing on hard drives on different vendors laptops. The current method I use is to install the hard drive in the laptop and install windows xp and then run the applications from the hard drive in test. This senario is not ideal since the hard drive which we want to test is the same as the hard drive which is running the application and the OS. If the drive fails the test (in some cases because it is an experimental hard drive) and has issues or disk errors, then the OS hangs and sometimes it is impossible to even to do a reboot of windows and it needs to be reformatted and reinstalled all over again.

I had an idea that I thought was worth while trying, but I am running into problems and need help.
1. I downloaded the knoppix iso image and created a CD.
2. I attached a USB hard drive (250GB).
3. I ran cfdisk and created partitions for Linux, Linux-Swap, and NTFS on the USB drive.
4. I ran knoppix-installer and chose to install knoppix on the /dev/sda1 with the recommended "Debian" method, but this failed at bootup and hung the system.
5. I chose the "Knoppix CD" installation method and this method was able to boot from the USB drive, but I read somewhere on the forum this is not the recommended method for running from the hard drive.
6. Next, I chose to use the "Beginner" method for multiple users. I get the same error message as the Debian "recommended" method. During boot, it says at the very end:
FATAL: Module sd_mod not found.
unmount: devfs: not mounted
mount: unknown filesystem type 'devfs'
unmount: devfs: not mounted
pivot_root: No such file or directory
/sdbin/init: 432: cannot open dev/console: No such file
Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!

7. So, I will go back to to install the Knoppix - CD method instead so at least I can continue the rest of my test.

Here is what I plan to do next:
8. After it boots the USB drive without the CD installed, I will then install VMWARE and will install it on the NTFS partition to run Windows XP. I will then install my disk drive excersizer programs on the VM windows XP.

What I want to be able to do is to install the SATA hard drive on the motherboard of the laptop and run my software from the VM on the USB drive which can format the drive and perform the necessary write/read/compare tests and other tests. I need to be able to see the SATA drive from the VM and be able to access the drive in this manner. Do you think this will be possible?

Also, any idea why the recommended "Debian" installation would hang on boot? I have read on posts, that if you want to actually install software and have it be reliable, that you should choose the Debian method. Since this didn't work, I am worried that the Knoppix - CD boot method will have issues when trying to use VMWARE.

You might think that this is alot of work to do just so I can run my applications from the USB drive, but Microsoft does not support USB boot. Also, not all laptops have multiple hard drive support, so I will need to be able to boot the OS when no hard drive is installed. That's why I chose Knoppix since it can boot without the Hard drive. Do you think I should try a different install method since the "Debian" method install failed? Maybe, I could first boot Knoppix from CD, then connect to my network and launch a different version of Linux installation which can format and install onto the USB hard drive?

I'll let you know how I proceed and appreciate any feedback.

Regards,
Mike

[ruymbeke]

...5. I chose the "Knoppix CD" installation method and this method was able to boot from the USB drive, but I read somewhere on the forum this is not the recommended method for running from the hard drive.
Well, different people have different needs and obviously different opinions...
In my opinion when it is possible, it is always better to install a full Linux distribution (as Debian)
than using a live cd/dvd as Knoppix. That being said, in a lot of cases (as corporate conputer)
messing up with partitions is not an option and the Knoppix iso boot is the best solution for me.
It is clean (only a couple of files for windows), fast to setup and very easy to remove (even from windows).
It is good enough for most of my needs, especially if you build your own remastered iso image.
It also has a lot of limitations (especially to install/update new applications as vmware),
reason why a full Debian install is probably better in your case.


What I want to be able to do is to install the SATA hard drive on the motherboard of the laptop and run my software from the VM on the USB drive which can format the drive and perform the necessary write/read/compare tests and other tests. I need to be able to see the SATA drive from the VM and be able to access the drive in this manner. Do you think this will be possible?
... I'll let you know how I proceed and appreciate any feedback. Regards, Mike
Did you consider writing your test program under Linux (hdparm -t /dev/sdax, dd if=/dev/sdax of=/dev/null),
which in my opinion is a much better way to benchmark a disk drive since
the windows driver and system overhead may hide accurate performance results ?
Instead of vmware, did you try using wine (which is btw free and installed on Knoppix)
to run win32 apps natively under Linux ? (No need to install windows)
You could save your setup and home directory with your custom applications
in order to reload them on the following boots. BTW, Knoppix boots very well from a (fast) 1GB USB dongle.
My 2 cents,
Gilles

[mbartol]

it is always better to install a full Linux distribution (as Debian)
than using a live cd/dvd as Knoppix.

I will play around with the debian install today and see how I progress. I discovered on a website that Debian has the same issue with the USB install as the Knoppix, so I will try using the new test version to see if they have resolved this problem. See:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2004/11/msg01601.html

Since someone has figured out a work around to getting the USB boot working, I think it makes sense trying the Debian instead, plus your suggestion hit home, but I would venture to guess that this workaround might also fix the Knoppix issue that I am having.


Did you consider writing your test program under Linux (hdparm -t /dev/sdax, dd if=/dev/sdax of=/dev/null),
which in my opinion is a much better way to benchmark a disk drive since
the windows driver and system overhead may hide accurate performance results ?
Instead of vmware, did you try using wine (which is btw free and installed on Knoppix)
to run win32 apps natively under Linux ?

Unfortunately, the win32 apps that I am using are forced upon me by our customer, so I have no choice but to use them and print the test results for them. As for as the wine, I am aware of this and was actually thinking of trying it out, but I will try using VMWARE first since it will be running XP which I am more familiar with.

Thanks for the speedy reply,
Mike

[Matg40]

Hi !

Sorry! I found it finally one side before... :oops: :oops: :oops:


old message:

Are there any minirt_ntf versions available which make it possible to boot Accelerated-Knoppix 1.0 out of the iso file from a NTFS partition ?

Or a tutorial how I can change the minirt.gz in the Accelerated-Knoppix 1.0 CD ?



I tried minirt_ntf.gz for Knoppix 4.0, 4.0.1, 4.0.2, 5.0 but it doesn´t work :(

(error inserting /modules/loop.ko: -1 invalid module format or -1 Out of Memory Segmentation fault)



Best regards (and sorry for the bad English)

Matg40

[mbartol]

Well, I attempted to install Debian, but it did not recognize the CD rom and asked for a floppy disk which the laptop does not have. I could not continue any further, so I decided to go back to Knoppix and was able to get it working using the work around I discoverd on the debian forum which I described in my last post. It now boots from the USB ok, but now I have a network problem I am trying to fix. The knoppix CD boot has no problem recognizing and connecting to the network, so this is strange. I'll do some searches in the forum to see what I can find out.

Mike

[Harry Kuhman]

but it did not recognize the CD rom
Why? This would seem to me an extremely straight-forward problem to resolve, and much simpler than fighting with a Knoppix install for months.


The knoppix CD boot has no problem recognizing and connecting to the network, so this is strange.
It is not at all strange Mike, it is typical. If you didn't expect this then you really didn't read enough before doing a hard disk install. Look at the oldest problem post in this forum for a starting point, then look through the forum to see that this has been happening since Knoppix was first "installed". Some people seem to resolve it and post their fixes, but it never gets fixed in the installer.

[mbartol]

Something happened to my last post so here it is again.


Why? This would seem to me an extremely straight-forward problem to resolve, and much simpler than fighting with a Knoppix install for months.

I've contacted the debian guys and received some feedback, and they are telling me that neither the stable version nor the newest beta versions support my laptop, so they are now trying to figure out a work around. I agree with Gilles, that the debian would make sense, but until they can help me figure out that issue, I am going to continue dinking around with Knoppix.


It is not at all strange Mike, it is typical. If you didn't expect this then you really didn't read enough before doing a hard disk install.

Actually, I did read all of your posts and warnings about these types of issues and was for warned. I am not here asking so much for help but rather exchange dialouge with others. I really want to figure this out on my own so I can learn how to use Linux since this is my first exposure to it. I am very impressed that the Knoppix Live CD is as stable as it is and the fact that it is able to detect all the hardware correctly is a testament to Klaus's hard work and the input from many individuals.

Anyways, Since I am here commenting on your post, I might as well update what I am actually working on. For the time being, the network issue is put aside so I can focus on a more interesting issue. My earlier post mentioned that I was able to get the USB working, but what I later discovered, is that it only boots if the internal SATA drive is removed. I found that if I remove the SATA drive, that the USB drive is seen as sda1. If the internal SATA drive is installed, then it is sdb1. The drive already has the funny Dell partitioning on it and Windows XP. The first time I installed onto the USB drive, I had removed the internal drive during boot and all went well. I made the changes per the debian link I posted earlier and it booted ok except for the network issue. As soon as I added the internal SATA drive, I realized I would need to change something. I read on someone elses post about the menu.lst file and I made the changes in this file to show that the USB drive is now sdb1 instead of sda1, but this change was not enough and the boot failed. I gave up on this and decided I would leave the internal SATA drive attached and do another knoppix-installer so that it would configure the files on the USB drive as sdb1 during the install. This caused even more issues. Because of the SATA drive having a funny partitions, some how the boot loader is attempting to read from the SATA drive at sda1 instead of sdb1. This caused the boot loader to fail immediately with an error saying that the file system is not recognized and never even attempted to load the kernel. I went back into the Live CD and changed the menu.lst on the USB drive to it had listed the root as hd1, so I changed this to hd0 and removed the other menu items it had put in it regarding the SATA partitions. After that change, the boot loader was able to recognize that the USB drive is the boot drive and started loading the kernel. Now it is failing at the same point as mentioned in my first post:


During boot, it says at the very end:
FATAL: Module sd_mod not found.
unmount: devfs: not mounted
mount: unknown filesystem type 'devfs'
unmount: devfs: not mounted
pivot_root: No such file or directory
/sdbin/init: 432: cannot open dev/console: No such file
Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!

I should correct my first post because in #5 I said that by installing the Knoppix-CD version that it passed, but later I discovered that I could get it to fail if I had an internal SATA drive installed. Anyways, thanks for your input and if I make any progress or figure out a solution, I'll give an update.

Regards,
Mike

[mbartol]

I read this post from Gilles:
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93758#93758

Hmm. I am wondering if using this method requires that the Hard drive is present and loaded with Windows XP in order to boot from the USB drive? It is needed in order to configure/format the USB drive. I will try this method anyways and see. I think this method has a better chance of working than the knoppix-installer.

[ruymbeke]

I read this post from Gilles:
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93758#93758

Hmm. I am wondering if using this method requires that the Hard drive is present and loaded with Windows XP in order to boot from the USB drive? It is needed in order to configure/format the USB drive. I will try this method anyways and see. I think this method has a better chance of working than the knoppix-installer.
Hi,
FYI, Only the USB formatting tool HPUSBFW.EXE runs on XP.
I boot computers without hard drives (nor cd, nor floppy) using a USB dongle.
Cheers, Gilles

[ICPUG]

Gilles,

I have downloaded your latest minirt_usb5.gz in preparation for when the Knoppix 5 is on general release.

I am amazed to find it is nearly 10MB in size.

As previous versions were no more than 3MB is there something wrong here? What accounts for the huge increase in size?

ICPUG

[ruymbeke]

Gilles,
I have downloaded your latest minirt_usb5.gz in preparation for when the Knoppix 5 is on general release.
I am amazed to find it is nearly 10MB in size.
As previous versions were no more than 3MB is there something wrong here?
What accounts for the huge increase in size?
ICPUG

No, The minirt_usb5.gz is only 2'688'200 bytes long (2.56MB),
which is very close to the previous ones I have released.
It is actually the same size as the minirt_usb4.gz for Knoppix 4.02.
minirt_usb5.gz (2.56MB) = compressed minirt_usb5 (10MB)
Please do not uncompress it, the minirt_usb5.gz has to be used "as is".

BTW, I am not sure that this boot ramdisk will work with the up coming web release of Knoppix 5.0.
If the linuxrc boot script or the kernel drivers have changed, I will have to make an update as well...
Best Regards,
Gilles

PS: the uncompressed ramdisk I have been using is 10MB versus the 3.41MB from the original Knoppix cd/dvd.
I had to increase the size of the boot ramdisk for development purpose
but it doesn't really matter since the unused space do not take much room after compression.
Actually the size increase may explain some of the problems I have with isolinux... I should have a look at it...
(cf: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=99669#99669 + previous and following posts)
Thanks.

[mbartol]

Well, I ran into a problem trying to use the HPUSBFW.exe and the command prompt version HPUSBF.exe. Since my USB hard drive is 250GB, It is too large for FAT or FAT32, so I am forced to use NTFS. This utility does not allow you to partition. When I format using the NTFS, it completes the format but does not copy any system files to it. I tried manually copying the files in the grubh\root_of_NTSF to the root of USB drive along with the usb_dgle6\boot folder and reboot, but the USB drive says that no ntrldr is found and it halts. So now, I am thinking I will take the hard drive out of the USB box and install it into a PC and do a FAT format with Windows 98 and copy files onto and make it dos bootable and then copy the grubh\root_of_USB to the USB root and the boot folder and install it back in the USB box to see if this works.

I bought a few of these brand new 250GB USB drives for $80.00 on sale, but might be able to borrow a 1GB USB stick since this is the platform that is tested so at least I can follow the procedure given by Gilles.

Mike

[ruymbeke]

Well, I ran into a problem trying to use the HPUSBFW.exe and the command prompt version HPUSBF.exe. Since my USB hard drive is 250GB, It is too large for FAT or FAT32, so I am forced to use NTFS.

The HPUSBFW.exe is to be used with a usb DONGLE !

This method was not designed to work with hdd, but it may work with "small" hdd ...
BTW, there are other much better ways to install a bootloader on a large hdd
as installing directly grub (from Knoppix) in the mbr of the external usb hdd.

NTFS will not work, since the dos boot require fat16 or fat32 to work, and as far as I know,
msdos will not work with partitions larger than 137GB without having data corruption. (48b lba adressing issue)
BTW, I should use freedos instead of msdos to avoid any data corruption problem.
I will update this asap ...


So now, I am thinking I will take the hard drive out of the USB box and install it into a PC and do a FAT format with Windows 98 and copy files onto and make it dos bootable and then copy the grubh\root_of_USB to the USB root and the boot folder and install it back in the USB box to see if this works.

This will work but you may really consider using a small partition (below 137GB) to avoid data corruption.
Partition magic or freedos/seagate/ibm install cd may also be used to partition your hdd.
You will then need to boot dos (from an other hdd, floppy, cd or usb dongle)
and run fdisk/mbr and the sys.com command to install the system on the hdd.
(just copy of io.sys file will not work since the mbr and boot sector of the disk need to be updated)

Hope this helps,
Gilles

[ICPUG]

Gilles wrote:

QUOTE

ICPUG wrote:

Gilles,
I have downloaded your latest minirt_usb5.gz in preparation for when the Knoppix 5 is on general release.
I am amazed to find it is nearly 10MB in size.
As previous versions were no more than 3MB is there something wrong here?
What accounts for the huge increase in size?
ICPUG


No, The minirt_usb5.gz is only 2'688'200 bytes long (2.56MB),
which is very close to the previous ones I have released.
It is actually the same size as the minirt_usb4.gz for Knoppix 4.02.
minirt_usb5.gz (2.56MB) = compressed minirt_usb5 (10MB)
Please do not uncompress it, the minirt_usb5.gz has to be used "as is".

UNQUOTE

Sorry Gilles, for wasting your time. Following your reply I did some Googling. Apparently Internet Explorer has a bug which automatically decompresses .gz files without changing the file name! This even happened when I saved the file to disk. This is IE 6 with service pack 2 as well.

I've downloaded your Knoppix500 zip file instead. That works OK!

ICPUG

[mbartol]

I was able to get the USB to boot reliably using Gilles method (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93758#93758). Thanks Gilles for your effort to put this together, much more reliable than the knoppix-installer method. This method also allows me to boot from USB at sda1 or sdb1 location which is important for me for my tests. I will try to figure out how to install vmware now and have it work after I reboot knoppix. No problem installing and running it, but the reboot seems to be the issue now, probably due to the ramdisk.

It's not clear to me if FAT32 is ok to use for the USB hard drive. I decided to use FAT16 because I thought I read somewhere that it must be FAT16. But FAT16 limits the partition to 2Gbytes which is ok for me now, but may be an issue later on. I am thinking of using knoppix cfdisk now to add an ext2 partition and a linux-swap partition and also an (NTFS partition for the vmware virtual disk). I think this partitioning should not affect the boot partition so long as I don't touch the FAT partition.

I still haven't heard back from Debian why there installer has an issue with my laptop. Maybe, I will use a different PC to install debian onto the USB drive and then see if it will work on the laptop since this issue is probably only an installer issue. Debian uses a later kernel than knoppix and if knoppix has no problem running on the laptop, then debian shouldn't either.

Thanks,
Mike

[ruymbeke]

I was able to get the USB to boot reliably using Gilles method (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93758#93758). Thanks Gilles for your effort to put this together, much more reliable than the knoppix-installer method. This method also allows me to boot from USB at sda1 or sdb1 location which is important for me for my tests...
Glad to read that you got it working. Thank you for the feeeback.


...It's not clear to me if FAT32 is ok to use for the USB hard drive. I decided to use FAT16 because I thought I read somewhere that it must be FAT16. But FAT16 limits the partition to 2Gbytes which is ok for me now, but may be an issue later on ... I think this partitioning should not affect the boot partition so long as I don't touch the FAT partition...
This is correct, FAT16 is limited to 2GB, reason for the FAT32 to exist on larger drives.
FYI, FAT16 is more efficient on a small partition. USB boot should work as well on FAT16 as on FAT32.
Just be carefull when accessing data after the first 137GB of the drive from MS-DOS. FreeDOS is ok.
Cheers,
Gilles

[blittle]

I have used Knoppix and the PMI install for a long time now with great success.
I am also a user of SLAX and would very much like to adapt this method to boot the SLAX CD (many many people agree).
I need to find out exactly what changes are required in the distibution in order to support this. I've read (most of) this thread and I understand some of the changes required.
Does anyone (ruymbeke?) have a complete list of changes required that I can adapt to SLAX?
Thank you for any information.

[ruymbeke]

Does anyone (ruymbeke?) have a complete list of changes required that I can adapt to SLAX?
Thank you for any information.
Simple question, simple answer: make a diff & patch it...
Sorry for the joke, but this is how I got it started.
Anyway there is so many tweaks and history now that
it would be very difficult to make a detailed list of changes.
Please remember that I have done this work first for my own use and
I thought that it may be useful to others, reason for sharing it.
Anyway, the main changes are in the linuxrc boot script and
the kernel libraries + applications tools called from the linuxrc
to make the boot script to work properly, mainly:
loop, ntfs, and reiser kernel modules,
modprobe, insmod, busybox, (bash besause of a problem with busybox and large files)
The key thing is to use a double loopback (loop & cloop)
to access the content of the KNOPPIX root file system
after having mounted the proper kernel file system modules
not already compiled within the kernel (ntfs, reiser).
In my opinion the linuxrc boot script could/would need to be rewritten
from scratch and can be greatly improved.
This is just matter of free time, and I always hope finding these changes
finally integrated in the latest official Knoppix release and
not having to spend time for a new update.
Hope this helps,
Gilles

[blittle]

This was precisely the information I needed to get started.
Thank you.

[TehKL.k]

I chanced upon this and have read much of he 40 pages, tried at least 3 releases of Knoppix, 3.82, 3.9 and 4.02. Eventually, I got 4.02 to work reliably.

Many thanks to Gilles and a number of others who have been instrumental in getting this to this stage. I am eagerly awaitng to try Knoppix 5.0 but don't want to enjoy 4.02 a little before making another upgrade. I would have love to be able to use this same approach for KANOTIX which I have installed on 6 year old Fujitsu notebook.

I have just created persistent home and save my config, which appears to be working properly. My next objective is to be able to access my c: drive FAT32 files. My plan is to be able to do all my e-mails (I'm using Thunderbird client) on my current notebook for work and play. This is my migration strategy out of the Windows environment - moving my critical applications to the Linux environment while co-existing with Windows, until I have enough over to the Linux environment, that it will be goodbye to Windows!

For now, can someone help me with accessing my c: drives FAT32 files safely and being able to read & write to these files from both Windows and Knoppix? I have read through a number of posts on different sites but have not found any threads or info sufficently detail to make me comfortable enough to try it out.

Best Regards,
KL

[ruymbeke]

... Many thanks to Gilles and a number of others who have been instrumental in getting this to this stage ...
My next objective is to be able to access my c: drive FAT32 files ...
For now, can someone help me with accessing my c: drives FAT32 files safely
and being able to read & write to these files from both Windows and Knoppix?
I have read through a number of posts on different sites but have not found
any threads or info sufficently detail to make me comfortable enough to try it out.

Hello,
I am glad to read that you got the iso boot working from your fat32 partition. Thank you for the feedback.
I am not sure a fat32 discussion is really apropriate in this thread, but here we go:
NTFS was (is still not ?) reliable from linux, but fat16/32 has been working and is reliable for a very long time.
So just click on the desktop icon to get read acces to your windows partition
and then right click and select enable or switch to grant linux with write access...
FYI, since ntfs was/is not reliable under linux, the right click write access menu will not work for ntfs partitions.
Good luck,
Gilles

[bingyang]

:?
I downloade KNOPPIX_V4.0.2DVD-2005-09-23-EN.iso and grub.zip from http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Win_Partition
boot, and after Welcome to the KNOPPIX line.... it's prompt:

Scanningg for USB/Firewire devices... Done.
Looking for CDROM in /dev/hdh16 mount: ioctl: LOOP_SET_FD: Bad file descriptior
mount: Could not setup loop device
Can't find KNOPPIX file system, sorry.
Dropping you to a (very limited) shell.
Press reset button to quit.

I have XP on NTFS at C: and FAT32 on D:, I boot from C:, I did not modify menu.lst

any ideas? thanks
Bingyang

[ruymbeke]

...I downloade KNOPPIX_V4.0.2DVD-2005-09-23-EN.iso and grub.zip from http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Win_Partition...
There is not such file like grub.zip. You probably meant: http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grube.zip
For knoppix 4.02 you should update it with: http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402.zip
But the file http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grubg.zip should already include a mix of both of them.
You may also want to have a look at and edit the grub config file menu.lst
Hope this helps,
Gilles

[zuubah]

I too am getting the same message. I have followed the instructions here: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93758#93758 but get the following message when I get thru grub...

>Scanning for USB/Firewire devices
>Enabling DMA acceleration for hda ...
>Enabling DMA acceleration for hdc ...
>Looking for CD&DVD in: /dev/sda1
>Device doesn't exist, search now or alternate locations:
>Use of this ISO: /dev/sda1/boot/knoppix.402/*.iso
>mount: ioctl: LOOP_SET_FD: Bad file descriptor
>mount: Could not setup loop device
>Accessing KNOPPIX CDROM failed. /cdrom...
>Can't find KNOPPIX filesystem, sorry.
>...very limited shell.

I have used all of the files from usb_dgle6.zip, and then updated them with kno402u.zip (as was suggested above) and still am getting the exact same message.

The strange thing is that the USB device, which is a 2Gb San Disk, stops responding via the LED when this happens, as if it is not being detected after it has been booted off of.

*I know a bunch of people ask a bunch of questions, so I appreciate any help on this!

~Z

[bingyang]

...I downloade KNOPPIX_V4.0.2DVD-2005-09-23-EN.iso and grub.zip from http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Win_Partition...
There is not such file like grub.zip. You probably meant: http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grube.zip
For knoppix 4.02 you should update it with: http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno402.zip
But the file http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grubg.zip should already include a mix of both of them.
You may also want to have a look at and edit the grub config file menu.lst
Hope this helps,
Gilles

:D Thank you so much Gilles.

I downloaded and reboot, no errers prompts. and start booting Linux, but when come to Start cardmgr... it stops responding.
is that mean my Laptop hardware is not compatable with Knoppix?
I'm trying to boot from NTFS of HDD, not usb, but I noticed that the file in kno500 is minirt_usb.gz, if there is a version of minirt_ntfs.gz for V5.0 to boot from NTFS?
thanks
:? Bingyang

[ruymbeke]

... start booting Linux, but when come to Start cardmgr... it stops responding.
is that mean my Laptop hardware is not compatable with Knoppix?
No, there are other cheatcode that you could add to the kernel command line in the menu.lst, like noapic or nolapic, ...
Have a look at the knoppix help/documentation or the text file cheatcodes.txt within the knoppix directory of the iso.
Your laptop may need one of these cheatcodes to work properly.


I'm trying to boot from NTFS of HDD, not usb, but I noticed that the file in kno500 is minirt_usb.gz, if there is a version of minirt_ntfs.gz for V5.0 to boot from NTFS?
The file you are referring to is not called minirt_usb.gz but minirt_usb5.gz, and works for both usb and ntfs boots.
Good luck,
Gilles

[ruymbeke]

...I have used all of the files from usb_dgle6.zip, and then updated them with kno402u.zip...
The file usb_dgle6.zip already includes everything for knoppix 4.02, update are only required for knoppix 5.
It looks like that the linuxrc boot script cannot find the iso file image.
If you boot knoppix of the cd/dvd with your usb dongle attached,
what device /dev/?d? is used by knoppix for your usb dongle ?
You may modify the file menu.lst to match the device used to locate the iso.
Be aware that grub is case sensitive. So KNOPPIX.ISO cannot be found with /*.iso.
Good luck,
Gilles

[zuubah]

I think part of my problem is in my menu.lst file.
Can someone tell me how I determine what my USB device is labelled as?
I.E. HD0,0 or sda1 or etc.

I have tried to use grub to identify it, while booting from CD, as is suggested somewhere (using the find command in grub).
But it doesn't find anything.

Is there a better way?

Thanks! :D

~Z

[zuubah]

I think I jumped the gun on posting, as I didn't see your post above mine first. :oops:

My device is identified as sda1 when I boot from CD.

As for the /*.iso, should I modify that line to match my .iso file exactly?

Thanks again,

~Z

[ruymbeke]

I think I jumped the gun on posting, as I didn't see your post above mine first. :oops:
My device is identified as sda1 when I boot from CD.
As for the /*.iso, should I modify that line to match my .iso file exactly?
Thanks again,
~Z
Grub uses the (hdx,y) syntax to load the kernel and ramdisk, (since the linux kernel is not loaded yet)
and the find command helps to locate the files. But once grub successfully load the kernel and ramdisk
it will be a good idea to give the linux kernel (which is running now) the correct path for the iso file using
the /dev/xdx/.../*.iso syntax and be very careful about the casing of the path.
Hpe this helps,
Gilles

[bingyang]

... start booting Linux, but when come to Start cardmgr... it stops responding.
is that mean my Laptop hardware is not compatable with Knoppix?
No, there are other cheatcode that you could add to the kernel command line in the menu.lst, like noapic or nolapic, ...
Have a look at the knoppix help/documentation or the text file cheatcodes.txt within the knoppix directory of the iso.
Your laptop may need one of these cheatcodes to work properly.


I'm trying to boot from NTFS of HDD, not usb, but I noticed that the file in kno500 is minirt_usb.gz, if there is a version of minirt_ntfs.gz for V5.0 to boot from NTFS?
The file you are referring to is not called minirt_usb.gz but minirt_usb5.gz, and works for both usb and ntfs boots.
Good luck,
Gilles

:D Thanks Gilles,
:arrow: I'll have a go again.
Bingyang

[bingyang]

:D thanks to Gilles!

:? as I downloaded both 4.02 and 5.0 DVD. I boot 4.02 dvd iso using kno500 by accident.
though it prompts some lib errors, but it booted the system and I can access all my partitions. all applications seems OK.
but when I click shell terminal, it opens the window but no shell characters prompts(only cursor), I cannot type in commands.

when I boot Knoppix, it cannot find the iso at hda1, but find at hdc1 and boot from hdc1.
now I changed hda1 to hdc1, both 4.02 and 5.0 iso can start booting the system as brfore, no errers prompts, but stop at cardmgr...
it seems still my laptop problem (MACRON PW70 17" BTO Centrino Pentium M with 2GB RAM and 120GB HDD)

I don't know where should I use those contents in cheatcodes.txt
any help/hints are appriciated
Bingyang

[ruymbeke]

...I don't know where should I use those contents in cheatcodes.txt...
First thing, do you have the same problem when booting from the cd ?
If yes, your problem has nothing to do with the (ntfs) iso boot.
Then, did you try the "noapic" and/or "nolapic" kernel cheatcodes as I proposed previously ?
Then you should read the forum for people having similar problems.
Hope this helps,
Gilles

[bingyang]

:D Thank you Gilles!
I tried boot from DVD, it has the same problem, I also tried as your advised.
it seems my laptop cannot use Knoppix, I have to give up. I'll try to install some
other distribution packages, not sure which one is better.

you are so kind, thank you very much again for all your help.
Bingyang

[sooner]

I have successfully boot the Knoppix 5.0 En DVD Edition from .iso file on the hardisk. Very interesting to have a look on Linux environment without repartioning.

Here's all I downloaded and got it to work
http://rapidshare.de/files/21240698/Grub-ruymbeke.rar.html

At the first and second time, the grub did not boot successfully. Then I remembered... grub loader is primarily designed for booting Linux, it may not read files with compression property! (which saves disk sapce). Then I removed that compression property off the folder BOOT and other two system files. At the third time, Knoppix was booted like a charm, very fast and beautiful. Anyway, the multimedia did not work well, the sound was very small and unclear


Thank Gilles for your excellence work.
Hope to see your next versions

[ruymbeke]

Hello,
Please find below the link to the boot ramdisk allowing to boot the Knoppix 5.0.1 CD/DVD ISO from the hdd:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/minirt_usb6.gz
Besides some bug fixes, it also includes the ntfs, reiser, auto search, and static/dynamic hostname add-on features.
Have fun with Knoppix 5.0.1 (Thank you Klaus for this new release) and please give me some feedback !
Cheers,
Gilles

BTW, the ext2 persistent home bug (ext2 partitions not recognized properly
because of a typo in the knoppix-autoconfig file) is still not fixed in 5.01.
But I have it patched (at run time using unionfs) in my minirt_usb6.gz.
(same trick as used for hostname, cf: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=96888#96888 )

FYI: The typo in the knoppix-autoconfig file: (ext3|ext3... --> ext2|ext3...)
wrong: ext3|ext3|reiserfs|xfs) MOUNTOPTS="$MOUNTOPTS,noatime" ;;
correct: ext2|ext3|reiserfs|xfs) MOUNTOPTS="$MOUNTOPTS,noatime" ;;
Please find a diff in here: http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/knoppix-autoconfig.diff

As a recall, the custom (fixed or dynamic) hostname syntax is:
"hostname=mycustomname" or
"hostname=auto-clock" (date+time) or
"hostname=auto-mac" (eth0 mac address)

[patelbhavesh]

Hello,
Please find below the link to the boot ramdisk allowing to boot the Knoppix 5.0.1 DVD ISO from the hdd:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/minirt_usb6.gz
Have fun with Knoppix 5.0.1 (Thank you Klaus for this new release) and please give me some feedback !
Cheers,
Gilles
This does not seem to be working for me.Are others seeing this issue.
Here is what i did
1>I copied the linux file from the older version(5.0 version) of ruymbeke's files since the link above does not have a linux file.
2>I used the minirt_usb6.gz

when i boot with 5.0.1 DVD it gives me missing synbols and does not start.I could not do a screenshot as it throws me to a limited shell.

[ruymbeke]

This does not seem to be working for me... I copied the linux file from the older version...
Hi Patelbhavesh,
Thank you for the feedback.
You have to use the 5.01 kernel to get it working (kernels and modules are not backward compatible).
I now have links to new zip files including the 5.01 kernel:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/usb_dgle7.zip
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grubi.zip
also posted in here (at the end of the post): http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93758#93758
Best Regards,
Gilles

[jacksonon]

Does the kernel in your package allow booting an ISO from a SerialATA-HDD (using an Intel ICH7)? I could not get this combination running under 4.02 because I think the kernel did not have the correct driver and therefore did not recognize the HDD...

[patelbhavesh]

This does not seem to be working for me... I copied the linux file from the older version...
Hi Patelbhavesh,
Thank you for the feedback.
You have to use the 5.01 kernel to get it working (kernels and modules are not backward compatible).
I now have links to new zip files including the 5.01 kernel:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/usb_dgle7.zip
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grubi.zip
also posted in here (at the end of the post): http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93758#93758
Best Regards,
Gilles

Using the linux from your link, now everything works fine !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Gilles!!!!!!!!

[ruymbeke]

Does the kernel in your package allow booting an ISO from a SerialATA-HDD (using an Intel ICH7)? I could not get this combination running under 4.02 because I think the kernel did not have the correct driver and therefore did not recognize the HDD...
Kernels 2.6.15 and after (Knoppix 5.01) have better support for sata interfaces.
But I don't know since I don't have such hardware to test.
If the sata interface is recognized from the running 5.01 Knoppix, most likely yes.
Best Regards,
Gilles

[cpeter]

This does not seem to be working for me... I copied the linux file from the older version...
Hi Patelbhavesh,
Thank you for the feedback.
You have to use the 5.01 kernel to get it working (kernels and modules are not backward compatible).
I now have links to new zip files including the 5.01 kernel:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/usb_dgle7.zip
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grubi.zip
also posted in here (at the end of the post): http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93758#93758
Best Regards,
Gilles

THX, but:
My laptop is Acer TM230, NTFS format, so I use grubi.zip for boot,
but when reboot or shutdown, there is no any information, I should force shutdown by press power +6s.
???

[semreh]

Thank you very much, Gilles,

worked perfectly for me - moved knoppix.501 directory into my pre-existing structure on my USB flash drive, updated menu.lst and booted correctly 2nd time through (first time I didn't quite get the edit on menu.lst correct).

Typing this in using Knoppix 5 booted from the iso on the NTFS HD via the USB drive even now.

Cheers,

Semreh

[ruymbeke]

Hi,
To who may be interested, I have updated the minirt.gz of accelerated Knoppix 5.01
http://lists.debian.org/debian-knoppix/2006/06/msg00024.html
to add the same features as for Knoppix 5.01 (ISO boot from ntfs, reiser, ext2 fix, dynamic host, ...):
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/minirt_a501.gz
Cheers,
Gilles

[lunlun]

i just googled searched this topic.

This idea of booting from usb sounds COOL.

However, im confused.

On post "http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=102084#102084"
you said

"NTFS will not work, since the dos boot require fat16 or fat32 to work, and as far as I know, "


however, you also mention on another post "Knoppix 5.01 (ISO boot from ntfs, reiser, ext2 fix, dynamic host, ...): "


so can i format my external harddrive as ntfs and have usb boot functioning


also what's the different between the two files

http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/usb_dgle7.zip
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grubi.zip


I am guessing, only usb_dgle7 is needed right???

those files on the two files seems similar~~


PS im trying to use knoppix 5

[ruymbeke]

...NTFS will not work, since the dos boot require fat16 or fat32 to work...
however, you also mention on another post "Knoppix 5.01 (ISO boot from ntfs, reiser, ext2 fix,...
It looks like a little confusing, so let me explain a couple of things.
In order to boot Knoppix from a local drive, or USB or FW device, you need quite a few things:

1) Your BIOS should be capable to boot from such a device. (it seems that your are ok)
2) You need to install a bootloader on that device which will load the initial linux kernel and boot ramdisk ( I use dos)
3) a partition holding the Knoppix iso which for the dvd 5.01 is over the 4GB barrier of a fat partition. (ntfs/ext/reiser)

As usual, there are more than one way to do things, but I decided to use this way since it is script based
which means that the files can be installed/modified/removed from both Windows and Linux environments.
No special tools, no hidden trick, but understandable text files as config files which can be tuned the way you like.

So assuming that your bios can boot from your external device (USB dongle or external disk drive)
I used the old and well known dos boot loader (with io.sys msdos.sys config.sys and autoexec.bat)
to run a dos executable of grub(.exe) which is used to launch the linux kernel and boot ramdisk.
Since this is a dos boot loader, I need a dos compatible partition which is a fat 16 or fat 32.
Obviously you can also install grub as a native bootloader (which is not that straight forward for a newbee)
and format your device with ext2/3 partition type and obtain the same or better result.
BTW, when I will have a little bit of time, I would like to replace msdos by freedos, since I have it almost done...

Once the linux kernel is running and in order to finish the boot process, the linuxrc boot script will look for
the knoppix data which can be on the same or an other partition. I made a special minirt boot ramdisk to
add the option to boot from a ntfs/reiser partition (among other features as custom hostname and bug fixes)

I made this simple approach for small USB flash dongles (I use a 4GB), but I assume that this method
can be used with a hdd as well. You may consider creating two partitions:
a first dos partition for the dos boot loader & grub.exe and an other ntfs/ext/reiser for the knoppix iso and data.
But once again, a more sofisticated setup with a single partition and grub filling the disk mbr
and boot loader sectors of your disk and partition may work better for you.
Hope this helps,
Gilles

PS: yes the usb_dgle7.zip and grubi.zip have similar content (minirt_usb6.gz), just different setup for different use.

[lunlun]

------------EDIT------------
cfdisk, mke2fs, grub-install

solved my problem
----------EDIT--------------



Thank you for your prompt reply!


This is the best usb-boot-knoppix method.




im currently trying to usb-boot from my 160 GB hd.

The HP-format.exe utility wont work bcoz my hd is too big

also, fdisk /mbr wont work for me bcoz, "i think" it is only available in DOS

and DOS wont detect my USB-hd :(

any idea?

[rocketry]

I have been working on a project that has installers for linux windows live boot cds and utilities.
the problem is that it works as an iso and CD but I caint get it to boot any oter whay.
I first tryed to boot the files extracted on the usb drive by setting the isos MBR as the USB drive MBR
that hasnt yet worked I also set CD emulation on the drive in the bios.
The other time I tryed to boot from an iso stored on an NTFS partition and grub on a linux.
With that I dont know the code to wright for grub to boot the iso.
The boot loader is from CD shell and that has Konopix in it on a menue?

[lunlun]

would this also work for ubuntu 6.06
if i put ubuntu.iso, initrd.gz (from the iso), and vmlinuz ( from the iso) into my usb dongle??


however, wht should i put in the menu.lst for this ubuntu live cd?

[Hartmut]

I have a 100GB USB hard drive which is formatted with FAT32 as a single partition and is half full. In the mbr track the grub grldr.mbr is installed and via that I can start BartPe or MS-DOS when a PC is booting from this HD via USB. Actually this HD works in stand alone mode as a multi media player, it is an Archos AV500. Because of the multi media player firmware I can't change the file system, nor the partion layout (at least I don't want to try that).

So my question. Is there a way I can get KNOPPIX files onto the FAT32 partition that I can start via grub / menu.lst ?

I have a PC-Welt DVD with Knoppix 5.01 on it.

Besides other things on the DVD I can see these two folders in the DVD root directory:
- boot
\_isolinux
\_with boot.cat and isolinux.bin and some other files
- KNOPPIX
\_with two large files KNOPPIX with 1,98GB + KNOPPIX2 with 1,58GB
some webpages and FAQ files
and two folders "images" (with a jpg and a png file) and "modules" folder with 4 files cloop.ko, unionfs.ko, insmod and rmmod

In sector 22 of the DVD I have found start code for the DVD

MKI Fri May 19 12:54:55 2006
mkisofs 2.01.01a03 -pad -v -V PCWELT_7_2006 -J -r -l -no-emul-boot -dvd-video -boot-info-table -boot-load-size 4 -b boot/isolinux/isolinux.bin -c boot/isolinux/boot.cat -hide-rr-moved -o knoppix.iso -sort sort_file.txt knoppix-entpackt

[ruymbeke]

... So my question. Is there a way I can get KNOPPIX files onto the FAT32 partition that I can start via grub / menu.lst ? ...
Hello,
If you use the minirt_usb6.gz insead of the minirt.gz file of the dvd and use the proper menu.lst entry
you will boot Knoppix 501 from the cd or dvd iso located on your fat32 partition of your usb hdd.
Please find below the link to the minirt_usb6.gz file:
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=103883#103883
BTW, how did you get the Knoppix 5.01 dvd iso to fit on a fat32 partition ?
Best Regards,
Gilles

[Hartmut]

Well, I did not create an iso image yet, because I thought that I might get in trouble with the file size any way on a FAT 32 partition. I'm hoping that someone can give me some tipps how I can lmake it work with the seperate files as they are right now on the DVD rather then converting them all into one big iso file.

[Hartmut]

On http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Cheat_Codes

I found this

boot=/dev/hda1
(after you load kernel and run ramdisk startup stuff (minirt.gz) however you may choose)
Then continue starting up from hda1/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX . This is an easy way to free up your CD drive--you don't even need the CD at all, to boot, if you boot using loadlin, and have the 'linux' file and 'minirt.gz' file being loaded from the hard drive with loadlin. just copy the cd compressed contents to the root directory of a partition. then load knoppix with loadlin or however, passing this code in addition to the others, as you start up.
This was tested to work on a fat32 partition, in knoppix 3.4. --gh78 May 20 2006

So how can I make use of this to start the KNOPPIX 5.01 completely from a FAT32 USB HD?

[ruymbeke]

On http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Cheat_Codes I found this boot=/dev/hda1
(after you load kernel and run ramdisk startup stuff (minirt.gz) however you may choose)
Then continue starting up from hda1/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX ...
So how can I make use of this to start the KNOPPIX 5.01 completely from a FAT32 USB HD?
Hello,
Even though it is not the real topic of this thread, it should be exacltly how it is described:
copy the KNOPPIX directory of the CD/DVD on your usb hdd along with the the linux kernel
and boot ramdisk minirt, update your menu.lst grub config file to load the kernel and boot ramdisk
with the kernel boot parameters boot= pointing to your usb KNOPPIX directoryand disk/partition device.
To figure out which device name to use for your usb drive/partition you may want to boot from the cd
and look for the name the kernel assigned to it by clicking on desktop icon...
Hope this helps,
Gilles

[patrickf3]

Gilles, I have been reading this thread for quite some time. I just recieved my 1gb dongle in the mail today. When I run you \grubi\Grubi\Root_Of_USB\BOOT\GRUB\HPUSBFW.EXE program it runs perfectly. But after it gets done formatting my drive, it doesn't ask me where to point my system files to (as in step 3) so I am kind of confused and stuck on what I am supposed to do now. I am trying to use knoppix 5.01 and I downloaded the http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grubi.zip from you, so I am not quite sure what I am doing wrong?

BTW I am trying to use NTFS...dont know if this is correct or not?

EDIT - Ok I got the system files in (wasnt sure I was supposed to use FAT) ... but I keep reading you can use NTFS for the partition...do I need to use partition magic to edit this or how do I get a NTFS partition on it?

-Patrick

[ruymbeke]

... BTW I am trying to use NTFS...dont know if this is correct or not?
EDIT - Ok I got the system files in (wasnt sure I was supposed to use FAT) ... but I keep reading you can use NTFS for the partition...do I need to use partition magic to edit this or how do I get a NTFS partition on it?
I agree that it may be a little confusing...
I first made the iso boot to work from ntfs (for a hdd boot on a corporate XP/NT environment),
then I updated the iso boot scheme to also work from a USB dongle formatted with fat16/32,
(because of the msdos/98, grub.exe and loadlin.exe bootloaders I am using).

FYI: iso boot from a fat16/32 (or ext2/3 or reiser) partition will also work from a hdd,
and if you manage to install the ntbootloader on your usb dongle (which I do not recommend)
you should be able to boot from a USB dongle formatted with a ntfs partition.

Or in other words, my modified minirt_xxx.gz boot ramdisk will allow you to boot from the iso file
located on fat16/32, ext2/3, reiser or ntfs partition assuming that you have an existing bootlader
capable to load a linux kernel and ramdisk as grub or lilo. (the mirt_xxx.gz boot ramdisk will also add some
extra features as custom hostname and fix the ext2 home bug: http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Bugs/5.01CD )
The grldr file is a key file to get grub running from a ntfs partition and
the HPUSBFW.EXE if one of the best tool I have found to format a usb dongle and make it bootable.
My two cents,
Gilles

[ruymbeke]

Hello,
I have created a VMware virtual machine (vm) for Knoppix 5.01
with the VMware tools already installed using the ISO boot technique, cf the following 11MB zip file:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/VMK501.ZIP
cf: http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/554
You can try it using the VMPlayer from vmware, cf: http://www.vmware.com/download/player/
This is a very nice way to try Knoppix within windows without any risk.
Knoppix running in a vm is actually the fastest Xserver for Windows I have found so far
including cygwin and some other quite pricy ones ...
Have fun,
Gilles

PS: Please update the cdrom image path to match the location of your Knoppix 5.01 CD or DVD iso file.
After the boot process is complete, please use the full screen mode or resize the vmware application window
to match your needs. The guest X server will change the display settings of the Knoppix 5.01 window
to fit the vmware application window (if the Autofit guest and Resize guest options are enabled in the preferences)

FYI: How does it work ?
I have setup a knoppix.sh in a virtual hdd decompressing in the Knoppix ramdisk a tgz file
including all the vmware tools during the boot process just before the init execution. Thanks the unionfs
the vmware tools are "patching" the Knoppix iso with the ramdisk and are then launched by the init process.
I use grub as a boot loader in the virtual hdd to load the Knoppix kernel and the minirt_usb6.gz boot ramdisk
allowing to change the hostname, patch a couple of bugs and finally boot from the VMware virtual cdrom
mounted from the official Knoppix 5.01 cd or dvd iso. The VMware tools include some key features as:
transparent mouse, fast graphics, shared directories (workstation only), ...

[Harry Kuhman]

Lots of things include the tools, including many appliances that VMware publishes on their own site. In fact, the simplest way to get "permission" might be to give it to them to publish, which might save you bandwidth too. I'm looking forward to seeing this.

[ruymbeke]

Lots of things include the tools, including many appliances that VMware publishes on their own site. In fact, the simplest way to get "permission" might be to give it to them to publish, which might save you bandwidth too. I'm looking forward to seeing this.
Hi Harry,
I finally got an answer from vmware, but I am still not sure
I can publish this Knoppix 5.01 vm using their tools.
I guess so. Anyway, please find below the response I got:


Hi Gilles,
Sorry for the delay. There was a mistake on our site (since corrected).
If you wish to list your appliance in our "Community" section of the Virtual Appliance directory,
you may do so using our "self-service" tool
http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/create_community_appliance
You must be logged in to a VMTN account in order to see this form.
Thanks!
Michael

[Harry Kuhman]

Well, I only have the VMware player, not the full package that lets me install from scratch, so I'm not ever sure what the options with the tools are, I really just know that I see many preconfigured files that the player will run that say they include the tools and some that say they do not. I don't know what they mean by "self service tool". But I am under the imperssion that if you own the full VMware package that you are allowed to ceate "appliances" and distribute them to others for use on the player and that they can contain the tools, I see this happening all the time on their own appliance section of theeir website, and I have never heard of them wanting to prevent it, there or anywhere else. You have made the extra step of making an inquirie to them, but I'm very comfortable that even without asking it's permitted to redistribute any appliances that you build (as far as VMware is concerned. Of course, if that appliance contains copyrighted applications from other vendors it would be a different issue.)

So how can we get your file and how do we use it?

[ruymbeke]

Well, I only have the VMware player, not the full package that lets me install from scratch, so I'm not ever sure what the options with the tools are, I really just know that I see many preconfigured files that the player will run that say they include the tools and some that say they do not. I don't know what they mean by "self service tool". But I am under the imperssion that if you own the full VMware package that you are allowed to ceate "appliances" and distribute them to others for use on the player and that they can contain the tools, I see this happening all the time on their own appliance section of theeir website, and I have never heard of them wanting to prevent it, there or anywhere else. You have made the extra step of making an inquirie to them, but I'm very comfortable that even without asking it's permitted to redistribute any appliances that you build (as far as VMware is concerned. Of course, if that appliance contains copyrighted applications from other vendors it would be a different issue.)
Thank you very much for your input. Even though I didn't get a clear answer from them, I believe that you are right.

So how can we get your file and how do we use it?
I already have updated my previous post with the zip link: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=107353#107353
Please give me some feedback.
Best Regards,
Gilles

[patelbhavesh]

Well, I only have the VMware player, not the full package that lets me install from scratch, so I'm not ever sure what the options with the tools are, I really just know that I see many preconfigured files that the player will run that say they include the tools and some that say they do not. I don't know what they mean by "self service tool". But I am under the imperssion that if you own the full VMware package that you are allowed to ceate "appliances" and distribute them to others for use on the player and that they can contain the tools, I see this happening all the time on their own appliance section of theeir website, and I have never heard of them wanting to prevent it, there or anywhere else. You have made the extra step of making an inquirie to them, but I'm very comfortable that even without asking it's permitted to redistribute any appliances that you build (as far as VMware is concerned. Of course, if that appliance contains copyrighted applications from other vendors it would be a different issue.)
Thank you very much for your input. Even though I didn't get a clear answer from them, I believe that you are right.

So how can we get your file and how do we use it?
I already have updated my previous post with the zip link: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=107353#107353
Please give me some feedback.
Best Regards,
Gilles

Now that VMWare server is free wouldnt it be easier to just download vmware server from

http://www.vmware.com/products/server/
And then create a virtual machine and add the Knoppix iso image to the virtual machine as a cdrom image.
Or am I missing something.

[Harry Kuhman]

Now that VMWare server is free wouldnt it be easier to just download vmware server....
And then create a virtual machine and add the Knoppix iso image to the virtual machine as a cdrom image.
Or am I missing something.
ruymbeke may know better than I, but I have been led to believe that the free server has some serious limitations, including that it does not support sound or USB devices. So the player still has it's place.

EDIT: I've found that I had been given bad advice, the VMWare free server produce does support USB and sound.

[ruymbeke]

Hello patelbhavesh,
Thank you for your feedback, but I believe that you may have missed something...


Now that VMWare server is free wouldnt it be easier to just download vmware server....
According to the vmware web site, the vmware server as implied by it's name runs on a (windows) server
and is not supposed to work or is not fully functional on a non-server system.
Nevertheless, it looks like working good enough for me on my XP professional if you ignore a couple of errors...
I did not spend a lot of time on the vmserver yet since I have a vmware workstation licence.
BTW, in order to run the server you need a licence and in order to get one,
you will need to enter your informations into a vmware web page which is not required with the player.
Now vm-player versus vm-server... just use what ever works best for you.


And then create a virtual machine and add the Knoppix iso image to the virtual machine as a cdrom image.
Creating a vm using just the iso (as you suggested) works fine, except that since
you cannot install the vm-tools on the (read only) cd, you either have to make a hdd install
and you end up with a huge vm or you run Knoppix without the vm tools installed which is annoying because of:
- X is very slow and no window resize (since the vmware X drivers are not loaded)
- No cut & paste nor smooth mouse handling between host and vm
- the time inside the vm is out of sync with the hosts (no real time, time jumps, ...)
- no shared folders between host and vm (not available with vmplayer, not sure about the vmserver...)
- no hostname customisation (via hostname= kernel cheatcode), which is really annoying in a corporate environment
where all Knoppix vm or real boxes have the same Knoppix hostname on the same local network (minirt_usb6.gz fix it).

The key benefit of my setup is to provide a very small 11MB vmware virtual machine (vm)
WITH the vmware tools already installed using as you suggested the official Knoppix 5.01 cd or DVD
mounted as a cdrom image. (you may have to update the iso filename path within the vmk501.vmx text file)

The only other clean way to do it, would be to remaster the cd to include the vm-tools
within the Knoppix hardware auto detection. But obviously I much prefer my approach since I can use
the same official iso file to burn a Knoppix cd for a friend, boot natively knoppix from that iso,
or run a fast Knoppix in a vm (with the vmware tools installed) using that same iso !
It was not that easy to find a way to dynamically patch the knoppix iso content during boot time
in order to include and load the vm drivers and tools and to make this vm (vm-tools patch) as small as 11MB...

No need to download a big vm nor a new custom knoppix-vmware iso.
Just download a 11MB zip file and re-use your official Knoppix 5.01 iso.
Use it if you like it !

If you are happy with your vm setup without having the vm-tools installed, you have no need for my setup.
My two cents,
Gilles

[patelbhavesh]

Now that VMWare server is free wouldnt it be easier to just download vmware server....
And then create a virtual machine and add the Knoppix iso image to the virtual machine as a cdrom image.
Or am I missing something.
ruymbeke may know better than I, but I have been led to believe that the free server has some serious limitations, including that it does not support sound or USB devices. So the player still has it's place.
I have used it and I dont think there are any limitation on sound or USB device.I have got both sound and have been able to access USB drives with server.
One of the main advantage of VMWare server is that you can add multiple Virtual CPU's also.

[patelbhavesh]

Hello patelbhavesh,
Thank you for your feedback, but I believe that you may have missed something...


Now that VMWare server is free wouldnt it be easier to just download vmware server....
According to the vmware web site, the vmware server as implied by it's name runs on a (windows) server
and is not supposed to work or is not fully functional on a non-server system.
Nevertheless, it looks like working good enough for me on my XP professional if you ignore a couple of errors...
I did not spend a lot of time on the vmserver yet since I have a vmware workstation licence.
BTW, in order to run the server you need a licence and in order to get one,
you will need to enter your informations into a vmware web page which is not required with the player.
Now vm-player versus vm-server... just use what ever works best for you.


And then create a virtual machine and add the Knoppix iso image to the virtual machine as a cdrom image.
Creating a vm using just the iso (as you suggested) works fine, except that since
you cannot install the vm-tools on the (read only) cd, you either have to make a hdd install
and you end up with a huge vm or you run Knoppix without the vm tools installed which is annoying because of:
- X is very slow (the vmware X drivers are not loaded)
- No window resize nor smooth mouse handling between host and vm (the vmware X drivers are not loaded)
- the time inside the vm is out of sync with the hosts (no real time, time jumps, ...)
- no shared folders between host and vm (not available with vmplayer, not sure about the vmserver...)
- no hostname customisation (via hostname= kernel cheatcode), which is really annoying in a corporate environment
where all Knoppix vm or real boxes have the same Knoppix hostname on the same local network (minirt_usb6.gz fix it).

The key benefit of my setup is to provide a very small 11MB vmware virtual machine (vm)
WITH the vmware tools already installed using as you suggested the official Knoppix 5.01 cd or DVD
mounted as a cdrom image. (you may have to update the iso filename path within the vmk501.vmx text file)

The only other clean way to do it, would be to remaster the cd to include the vm-tools
within the Knoppix hardware auto detection. But obviously I much prefer my approach since I can use
the same official iso file to burn a Knoppix cd for a friend, boot natively knoppix from that iso,
or run a fast Knoppix in a vm (with the vmware tools installed) using that same iso !
It was not that easy to find a way to dynamically patch the knoppix iso content during boot time
in order to include and load the vm drivers and tools and to make this vm (vm-tools patch) as small as 11MB...

No need to download a big vm nor a new custom knoppix-vmware iso.
Just download a 11MB zip file and re-use your official Knoppix 5.01 iso.
Use it if you like it !

If you are happy with your vm setup without having the vm-tools installed, you have no need for my setup.
My two cents,
Gilles

Yeah Gilles I agree with you .The only thing I was trying to point out is that with VMware server you have lot of flexibility like adding multiple CPU's and taking snapshots(I dont know whether this is possible with VMware player),adding hard drives/partitions etc.Basically VMware server is the older GSX eidtion of VMware server.

Update
I just downloaded the 11 MB virtual machine to try out on VMWare server.It works with VMWare server also .
So whoever wants to use VMware player can use it or you can also use Vmware server.whatever fits your needs :wink:

[Harry Kuhman]

It took me a while to get aroung to playing with this; I needed more disk space on my XP system. Got the disk, but reinstalling everything is a drawn out process. Still have things the need to be installed, but the VMware player is in place and I've checked out the appliance.

Overall things are looking good. I've hit one strange thing so far, pretty clearly a VMware issue although I'm not sure what to make of it. I fired up Ethereal (included with Knoppix) and went to capture packets, but the interface selector window was completely blank, looked as if there was no virtual ethernet adapter at all. Of course there was, I had just accessed the Web with Konquror. This isn't the behavior I expected from ethereal under VMware; I had already fired up a Debian Etch VM and did an apt-get install ethereal. It did it (installing Wireshark, the new name for ethereal) and that install worked exactly as expected, the eth0 interface showed up in the selector window where it should.. I guess I'll have to learn more about VMware before I fully understand why I don't see the Interface under Knoppix.

That's the only unexpected behaviour I've seen so far though; other than that it's pretty much Knoppix. Not sure if I have sound, I'll check that next.

Also saw that your appliance is now listed in VMware's list of appliances.

[johnrw]

Or in other words, my modified minirt_xxx.gz boot ramdisk will allow you to boot from the iso file
located on fat16/32, ext2/3, reiser or ntfs partition assuming that you have an existing bootlader capable to load a linux kernel and ramdisk as grub or lilo. (the mirt_xxx.gz boot ramdisk will also add some extra features as custom hostname and fix the ext2 home bug: http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Bugs/5.01CD )

Thanks Gilles!

I had no luck with another miniroot.gz file.

1) I did notice that the ctrl-alt-f2 terminal is in a strange keyboard, and my knoppix.sh
(from saveconfig) executes with german output messages. I know my lang=us is set in
the grub4dos menu.lst. Here it is.

title Knoppix minirt_usb6.gz without GUI
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/grub/isolinux/linux lang=us ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init apm=power-off nomce vga=791 quiet dma bootfrom=/dev/hda1/knoppix.iso myconfig=/media/sda BOOT_IMAGE=knoppix 2
initrd /boot/grub/isolinux/minirt_usb6.gz

2) When KDE is up, my clock is now wrong. I checked the kde region and language settings
and they are set correctly for my location. Funny thing is it is now displaying time for hawaii!

any ideas?

best,
john

edit: On Oct 4 I found that all I had to do was issue these commands to setup to my local time, and keyboard.
loadkeys us
hwclock --hctosys


edit2:
What a learning experience... well I decided to put lang=us after knoppix(previously I had no knoppix in the command)
and that fixed everything.

changed:
kernel /boot/grub/isolinux/linux lang=us ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init apm=power-off nomce vga=791 quiet dma bootfrom=/dev/hda1/knoppix.iso myconfig=/media/sda BOOT_IMAGE=knoppix 2

to this:

kernel /boot/grub/isolinux/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init knoppix lang=us apm=power-off nomce vga=791 quiet dma bootfrom=/dev/hda1/knoppix.iso myconfig=/media/sda BOOT_IMAGE=knoppix 2

Now, if I could figure some way, for me to have the iso on an ntfs partition, and be able to write to that partition... I would be very happy. Apparently the whole drive is thought to be a crdom.

I modified Gilles minirt_usb6.gz, the linuxrc in that... to try for a rw mount
here is the boot msg I got.
...
Looking for /dev/hda1/knoppix.iso: Ok
mountit: /dev/hda1 /cdrom2.loop
static mount: /cdrom2.loop/knoppix.iso /cdrom2
mount: WARNING: loop device is read-only
mount: WARNING: loop device is read-only
mount: WARNING: loop device is read-only
Accessing KNOPPIX CDROM at /cdrom2.loop/knoppix.iso...

Later in the process, the knoppix cloop images are again explicitly mounted read-only...
Found primary KNOPPIX compressed image at /cdrom2/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX.
Found additional KNOPPIX compressed image at /cdrom2/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX2.

So what exactly do I have to do to be able to write to ntfs, while I have knoppix running from an iso image?
Change the device to cdrw2 maybe?

[theonlyalterego]

My Problem: knoppix prints error message "modprobe: FATAL: could not load /lib/modules/2.6.11/modules.dep", but then starts seemingly fine except with no mouse support once loaded.


I looked around for a solution for this, but haven't found one yet...

I am attempting to do a "typical" hard disk Win-PMI of knoppix 5.0.1 on my Dell D600 laptop. I currently have 1 partition running windows xp, and want to play around with the Win-PMI knoppix. I followed the standard instructions, but I am using the newest knopix ISO 5.0.1 Once I extracted the files into the specified location, and edited the boot.ini to include grub, I rebooted, selected Grub, then selected this: knoppix 3.8.1 from NTFS hda1 ISO scan ramdis=32mb

which corresponds to this menu.lst entry:

title Knoppix 3.8.1 from NTFS hda1 ISO scan ramdisk=32MB
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.381/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=791 nomce quiet bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.381/*.iso config=scan home=scan ramdisk=32768 noprompt
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.381/minirt_ntfs.gz
boot

I jumped down to run-level-1 and found that there is no /lib/modules/2.6.11/ !! there's only /lib/modules/2.6.17 !! is there any way around this?

I'm pretty new to knoppix, so any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks,
~ego

[johnrw]

Hi theonlyalterego,


My Problem: knoppix prints error message "modprobe: FATAL: could not load /lib/modules/2.6.11/modules.dep", but then starts seemingly fine except with no mouse support once loaded.

It looks like the minirt is for an older knoppix. I have not had any experience with using those, so I could be wrong.
I have used this one and knoppix 5.0.1 on ntfs with much success. It is Gilles Ruymbeke's for knoppix 5.0.1
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/minirt_usb6.gz More info on it here: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=103883#103883

I suspect that the kernel is also for the older knoppix. (knoppix.381?)

Here is a more straightforward approach. (you can do this in Windows)
1) Make a new directory under C:\boot named knoppix.501
2) Place just 2 files, minirt_usb6.gz and the linux file from the cd or cd image... (stored at /boot/isolinux/linux) in the knoppix .501 directory.
3) Move the knoppix 5.0.1 iso image file to C:\boot\knoppix.501 also.
4) Edit the c:\menu.lst file and add this:

title Knoppix 5.0.1 from NTFS hda1 ISO scan ramdisk=32MB
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.501/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=791 nomce quiet bootfrom=/dev/hda1/boot/knoppix.501/*.iso config=scan home=scan ramdisk=32768 noprompt
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.501/minirt_usb6.gz
boot

caveat:
You will not be able to create a persistent home image file on the c:\ drive, so I would suggest having a thumb drive ready to create one on. (The c: drive is going to be mounted as read only!)

I wound up going all the way with this, and making a 4150M fat32 partition. Then copying the 2 files, KNOPPIX and KNOPPIX2 to that partition. I was forced to do it that way to get around the file size limit for fat32, because I still wanted to use the DVD version. The largest of the 2, KNOPPIX is 1.98 GB (2,127,783,608 bytes), so fat32 is happy.
I could boot to that using the fromhd=/dev/hda5 cheatcode, which leaves me a better arrangement. (I can write to the NTFS drive, if need be. The only partition that is read-only, is the one with the KNOPPIX files. That is correct.)

But since this is a repartitioning solution, it is not for the just curious crowd. I may write a howto to describe my solution in more detail if I get the time. While I was repartitioning I also created a couple of small swap partitions, and one for the persistent home feature. I used gparted to shrink my windows down 10Gig It comes as an iso file, which is bootable, and forces Windows to check the drive on the next reboot, so don't be alarmed by that. You can get that here: http://gparted.sourceforge.net/

enjoy runnig a really fast knoppix...

[ruymbeke]

...Now, if I could figure some way, for me to have the iso on an ntfs partition, and be able to write to that partition... I would be very happy. Apparently the whole drive is thought to be a crdom.
...
So what exactly do I have to do to be able to write to ntfs, while I have knoppix running from an iso image?
Change the device to cdrw2 maybe?
Sorry for the delay, I just got back from vacation.
First of all, ntfs write from Knoppix (or from Linux in general) is still kind of risky,
or is starting to be reliable only recently and in my opinion a little bit more testing wouldn't hurt.
If you still want to write into the ntfs partition where the iso file is located
assuming that you will not delete or physically move any piece of data which belong to the iso file,
you can remount the ntfs partition as writable and make your changes (in the menu.lst file)
using the following command from a shell: "sudo mount -f -o remount,rw /cdrom2.loop"
and remember that your iso boot (ntfs) partition is mounted as "/cdrom2.loop" (and not as /mnt/hda1)
cf: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=105862#105862
Hope this will help. Good luck and please let me know when you get it working.
Best Regards,
Gilles

[ruymbeke]

...Overall things are looking good...
Also saw that your appliance is now listed in VMware's list of appliances.
Hi Harry,
Thank you for the feedback.
I have no idea about the Wireshark/Ethereal problem, since I have never used it.
Did you get it working now ? Do you have sound ? Any other problem or comment ?
Thank you and Best Regards,
Gilles

[Harry Kuhman]

[quote=Harry Kuhman]...Did you get it working now ? Do you have sound ?
I do have sound. Have not figured out why Ethereal does not show eth0 as an option (although the product name has been changed to Wireshark and that's what you get if you apt-getinstall ethereal in Debian now, the version already installed in Knoppix is still Ethereal). Worked on it a little but can't figure out why. Suspect it's something with VMware that I don't understand; very strange that other appliances running under the same player can work properly with Ethereal/Wireshark. Very handy way to run Knoppix even with this strange issue.

[Hartmut]

What is described by johnrw comes very close to my desire.
I like to boot KNOPPIX 5.01 from an external USB HD. The USB HD is formatted as one big FAT32 partition. Grub4DOS is installed in the MBR and allows to boot WinXP, DOS, and BartPE all from the USB HD. Now I would like to add the abillity to boot KNOPPIX as well from it. I've copied from the DVD the directory "Boot" and a directory KNOPPIX which contains the 2 big files KNOPPIX and KNOPPIX2 (besides some other files, comes from the PC-Welt DVD). With the description from johnrw I get the isolinux to boot but than it stops with an error message saying that it can't find the a Knoppix file system and a prompt is being offered. While isolinux boots the internal HD of the PC is found as hda1. Any suggestion what to enter in menu.lst and what else I might need to change to make KNOPPIX start?

[johnrw]

Hi Hartmut,

I have not booted from a usb stick, but I will see if I can help you get yours working.
What you are trying to do is significantly different than:
booting from a Windows NTFS drive that uses the Windows boot loader and boot.ini, to a Knoppix.iso or KNOPPIX directory. You have grub4dos working from the usb MBR, so you are already close.

With the description from johnrw I get the isolinux to boot but than it stops
Isolinux should not be booting. The booting order is grub4dos->linux. Did you copy the minirt_usb6.gz to the usb stick in D:\boot\knoppix.501, where D: is the letter of your usb drive?

You would need that and the linux kernel from the cd, which is a file named simply "linux". That is stored in the directory /boot/isolinux. Put both of those 2 files in D:\boot\knoppix.501.

I will also assume that you have all the grub4dos files in the D:\boot\grub directory.


Any suggestion what to enter in menu.lst and what else I might need to change to make KNOPPIX start?
How about posting your menu.lst?

[Hartmut]

Oopps, you're right the linux kernel is booting. I was mistaken because the file first sat in the folder /boot/isolinux which I copied directly from the DVD. I copied it into /boot/knoppix.501 too.

grub is in the folder /grub which is in the root directory. minirt_usb6.gz is in /boot/knoppix.501

Linux is booting, scans for USB/firewire devices, gives it some time to register and than scans for HD's
Linux finds the internal hd and calls it hda with DMA enabled.
then I see very shortly another scan over HD names and than it says that it couldn't find KNOPPIX file system. I've treid with the KNOPPIX file in the root directory of the USB HD and as well in the /boot/knoppix.501 directory. Same result.


My last attempt with menu.lst:

splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/tuxbsdxp.xpm.gz
color black/cyan yellow/cyan
timeout 12
default /default

title load Windows XP via search for NTLDR
find --set-root /ntldr
chainloader /ntldr


title Knoppix 5.0.1 with "boot=/dev/sda1" "ramdisk=32MB"
find --set-root /boot/knoppix.501/KNOPPIX
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.501/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=791 nomce quiet boot=/dev/sda1 config=scan home=scan ramdisk=32768 noprompt
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.501/minirt_usb6.gz
boot


title Knoppix 5.0.1 with "boot=/dev/sda" "ramdisk=32MB"
find --set-root /boot/knoppix.501/KNOPPIX
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.501/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=791 nomce quiet boot=/dev/sda config=scan home=scan ramdisk=32768 noprompt
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.501/minirt_usb6.gz
boot


title load Windows 98 Dos 7.1 via search for IO.SYS
find --set-root /IO.SYS
chainloader /IO.SYS


title load BartPE via search for PELDR
find --set-root /peldr
chainloader /peldr

[johnrw]

Hi Hartmut,

title Knoppix 5.0.1 using bootfrom cheatcode
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.501/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init knoppix lang=us apm=power-off vga=791 nomce quiet bootfrom=/dev/sda1 config=scan home=scan ramdisk=32768 noprompt
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.501/minirt_usb6.gz
boot

try that one...

[Hartmut]

Seems to bring it one step further. At the end it says:

Looking for /dev/sda1 ok!

Can't find KNOPPIX file system
...

[johnrw]

You copied the 2 (KNOPPIX and KNOPPIX2) files to D:\KNOPPIX ? They should be there.

[Hartmut]

Thank You !!

During my various attempts I moved the two files to the root directory. Moving them back into a directory KNOPPIX makes Knoppix boot just wonderful straight to the KDE desktop.

[johnrw]

Hi Hartmut,

My bad, it should be this... using fromhd= not bootfrom=
try that.

title Knoppix 5.0.1 using fromhd cheatcode
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.501/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init knoppix lang=us apm=power-off vga=791 nomce quiet fromhd=/dev/sda1 config=scan home=scan ramdisk=32768 noprompt
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.501/minirt_usb6.gz
boot

best,
johnrw

[johnrw]

Thank You !!

During my various attempts I moved the two files to the root directory. Moving them back into a directory KNOPPIX makes Knoppix boot just wonderful straight to the KDE desktop.

You are welcome, and welcome aboard!

Using the various boot cheatcodes documented here:
http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Cheat_Codes it says bootfrom= will free the cdrom as cdroms are ignored.

Well I am glad it is working now. I would like to point out that once you create a "persistent home" any settings you make to KDE, or the system in general are preserved on shutdown, and you are given the choice to use them on startups that follow. It takes Knoppix to a whole new level. Fast, user customizable, and if you break something... you can just delete the knoppix.img file. (I used to be afraid to break the linux installations I had)

I have even installed the M$ core web fonts, and played with it. Mostly because I found this page that described in enough detail to convince me to try it out.
http://en.opensuse.org/Optimal_Use_of_Fonts_on_SuSE

One more thing, if you use Firefox, be sure to edit your /etc/profile and insert:
MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO=1
export MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO

See if you notice any difference!

best,
john

[bozo8787]

Hey all, I have read so many ways to mount, load or boot from hdd via iso (no hdd install). Frankly my mind is spinning in circles and i'm bound to mess something up.

I currently triple boot (vista, XP, and Ubuntu) all in different partitions of course.

Could someone either explain this to me like i'm 10 years old or like the linux n00b that I am?

I understand that Knoppix 5.0.1 is not recommended to be installed from in HDD.

However like many I want Knoppix to run in HDD, for its speed and convenience of not have to boot to disc.

What's my best route. Could someone be so kind and point me in the right direction or throw me a link.

[johnrw]

Could someone either explain this to me like i'm 10 years old or like the linux n00b that I am? Like you are ten years old? hahaha

I have made a self extracting zip, with the files. If you explain a little more about what you have installed and how it is installed... I could give you some direction on how to use mine. Do you have the Knoppix iso file downloaded already? My extractor should be used if you want to run knoppix from an iso image or from the 2 huge files inside the iso named KNOPPIX and KNOPPIX2(knoppix2 is only there if you have the DVD version).

You can try it out. here. http://mysite.verizon.net/johnrw/bin/fullSpeedKnoppix-0.4.exe

It will modify your c:\boot.ini (if it can), and leave a backup copy named boot.$z$ just in case.
Just run it from windows Xp.

edit:
Changed it a few times, version 0.4 now. My buddy tested it on his machine a few thousand miles away... and with no experience in Linux, and I do mean no experience, he had knoppix running from a boot menu. I added the menu options to also boot from hda2, hdb1 and sda1 for thumb drives.

[johnrw]

...Now, if I could figure some way, for me to have the iso on an ntfs partition, and be able to write to that partition... I would be very happy. Apparently the whole drive is thought to be a crdom.
...
So what exactly do I have to do to be able to write to ntfs, while I have knoppix running from an iso image?
Change the device to cdrw2 maybe?
If you still want to write into the ntfs partition where the iso file is located
assuming that you will not delete or physically move any piece of data which belong to the iso file,
you can remount the ntfs partition as writable and make your changes (in the menu.lst file)
using the following command from a shell: "sudo mount -f -o remount,rw /cdrom2.loop"
and remember that your iso boot (ntfs) partition is mounted as "/cdrom2.loop" (and not as /mnt/hda1)
cf: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=105862#105862
Hope this will help. Good luck and please let me know when you get it working.

Hi Gilles,
I sure was glad to read you and Klaus on the debian list this morning. I'll even volunteer to test things. (Ie. Ndiswrapper was broken in 5.0.1 which was a killer for my laptop, because the kernel driver couldn't even do dhcp, static was fine but wireless without dhcp is damn near fatal.)

I am glad you discovered what the problem with 5.0.1 and ntfs was. The command above didn't work for me. So I volunteer to test. Your miniroots, the next Knoppix, whatever. Windows Genuine Advantage sucks big time. It's showtime!

Best Regards,
John Woods

[tribunal]

hello,

I'm another newbie to this whole boot from an .ISO image thing.. but it sounds like a cool concept

I was just wondering if this boot from .iso method only applies to knoppix, or does it work for any bootable cd image?

I would like to boot my windows xp cd, or other linux distro cds, etc. Is this possible ??

Sorry i didn't read through all 46 pages of this thread yet, but i kinda skimmed through the first few and last but they all talk about knoppix iso images it seems..


thanks

[ruymbeke]

hello,
I'm another newbie to this whole boot from an .ISO image thing.. but it sounds like a cool concept
I was just wondering if this boot from .iso method only applies to knoppix, or does it work for any bootable cd image?
I would like to boot my windows xp cd, or other linux distro cds, etc. Is this possible ??
Sorry i didn't read through all 46 pages of this thread yet, but i kinda skimmed through the first few and last but they all talk about knoppix iso images it seems..
thanks
That would be great !
But I had to customize the Knoppix boot ramdisk quite a bit to get it to work (double loop back).
So technically it can be done, practically it requires quite a lot of customization which is very distro specific (boot script).
But the grub boot loader (grldr) started from the boot.ini of XP as an example can be a good starting point to boot other OSes.
You "just" need the boot process of the OS to be able to handle the iso loopback required to boot from it.
AFAIK, Kanotix and some other Knoppix derivatives already incude the required changes.
It is not that complicated if you are used to play with boot scripts and boot tools but is quite a pain if you have never done it.
Hope this helps,
Gilles

[tribunal]

"playing" with boot scripts? LOL... that is already starting to sound complicated.

But please enlighten me on this topic as it's really interesting. Why do we have to rely on boot.ini or config.sys or any boot loader of the previous OS that was installed? I mean, when the BIOS boots off the cd, it does not rely on the previous OS or its boot loader at all.. it just simply boots the cd. So isn't it possible to create an emulator-like file that simulates the boot process the way that the BIOS does?

For example, when i first heard of PXE, the idea of booting an OS off a network, I was so impressed by it... I immediately wanted to try to see how it works. But spending several hours, i finally understood my network card is too old and doesn't support pxe. Then after spending several days, I finally found a site where it gives me a boot image that emulates my network card so it can act as if it has PXE support, which finally made me see the beauty of network booting.

I know these two are completely different scenarios, but my point is, is it not possible to just emulate that part where the bios initiates the booting and then hand over control to the cd image? Am i making any sense ?

[ruymbeke]

"playing" with boot scripts? LOL... that is already starting to sound complicated.

But please enlighten me on this topic as it's really interesting. Why do we have to rely on boot.ini or config.sys or any boot loader of the previous OS that was installed? I mean, when the BIOS boots off the cd, it does not rely on the previous OS or its boot loader at all.. it just simply boots the cd. So isn't it possible to create an emulator-like file that simulates the boot process the way that the BIOS does?
An an emulator-like capable to boot and read data off a hdd and virtualize the memory so it doesn't appear
to the OS running under it, is so called virtualization software, cf qemu (free), vmware (the best) or virtualpc (pouah).



For example, when i first heard of PXE, the idea of booting an OS off a network, I was so impressed by it... I immediately wanted to try to see how it works. But spending several hours, i finally understood my network card is too old and doesn't support pxe. Then after spending several days, I finally found a site where it gives me a boot image that emulates my network card so it can act as if it has PXE support, which finally made me see the beauty of network booting.
I have played with this quite a bit as well.
You are probably referring to http://rom-o-matic.net/ and etherboot.
This is just a way to download from the network a bootloader as pxeboot or grub (with network support)
in order to load the kernel and boot ramdisk (similar to isolinux on cd/dvd to emulate a boot floppy)
But PXE doesn't emulate anything. It is just a network hack to load the real network bootloader.



I know these two are completely different scenarios, but my point is, is it not possible to just emulate that part where the bios initiates the booting and then hand over control to the cd image? Am i making any sense ?
You may want to try the "free" vmplayer from vmware and my Knoppix virtual machine:
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=107353#107353

[tribunal]

An an emulator-like capable to boot and read data off a hdd and virtualize the memory so it doesn't appear
to the OS running under it, is so called virtualization software, cf qemu (free), vmware (the best) or virtualpc (pouah).

sorry I think I didn't explain the situation correctly. what i meant was, doing the emulation *outside* an operating system. i.e a real genuine boot similar to when you start up your pc. vmware, virtualpc, etc does all the emulation inside another OS which isn't what i had in mind



You are probably referring to http://rom-o-matic.net/ and etherboot.

:) yep, thats the one. I was just amazed by it as i had never seen anything like it before. i guess for a newbie like me, this is all awe-inspiring.



You may want to try the "free" vmplayer from vmware and my Knoppix virtual machine:
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=107353#107353


Although my intention was not use virtualization software, in the end it looks like this is what it comes down to. I'll check it out.

I've searched all over the net hoping someone might've done what you guys did in this thread, only instead of customizing to boot just one particular kind of ISO, boot any ISO image file, but it looks like it may be much harder than i think.


thanks for your suggestions

[kirol]

Hi Gilles,

I am trying your VM with VMWARE Player 1.0.1 and the 5.0.1 Knoppix CD ISO image.
Seems to work fine, but X runs in a virtual 2000x1700 resolution; how can i alter that?
Also how can I pass command-line boot options (e.g. to select lang)

TIA,

--kirol

[ruymbeke]

Hi Gilles,
I am trying your VM with VMWARE Player 1.0.1 and the 5.0.1 Knoppix CD ISO image.
Seems to work fine, but X runs in a virtual 2000x1700 resolution; how can i alter that?
Also how can I pass command-line boot options (e.g. to select lang)
TIA,
--kirol
Hi Kirol,
As I wrote in my previous post ( http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=107353#107353 )
You should enable the "Autofit guest" options in the view menu
and then resize/shrink the vmware window or use the full screen mode.
The knoppix screen size will automatically resize to the vmware window.

In order to change the kernel boot cheatcodes you will need to edit the grub config file
located in /media/hda1/boot/grub/menu.lst after granting write permission to hda1.

Please let me know how this works for you.
Best Regards,
Gilles

[kirol]

Thanks for the prompt reply. I can't see any "view menu". Perhaps that's because my player version is outdated (build 19317). But that's not too bad as I've discovered that the resolution gets dynamically adjusted if I switch to full-screen mode. The KDE "screen resize" applet also works, and offers an absurdly long list of virtual resolutions (who'd want to use 300x700 for example?).

Editing the "menu.lst" file also worked, which puzzles me as I thought it lived in your read-only images... I see hda1 seems to offer 500MB, although there is no such big file in the VM startup directory; is this allocated on demand by VMWARE? and then from virtual memory or permanent disk? So many questions :roll:

Anyway this is a really really nice way of having the best of both worlds. I've colinux working which is an interesting fully OSS solution, but have to admit this is much easier to setup. Thanks again for your wonderful additions to KNOPPIX.

[ruymbeke]

Thanks for the prompt reply. I can't see any "view menu". Perhaps that's because my player version is outdated (build 19317). But that's not too bad as I've discovered that the resolution gets dynamically adjusted if I switch to full-screen mode. The KDE "screen resize" applet also works, and offers an absurdly long list of virtual resolutions (who'd want to use 300x700 for example?).
You are correct.
The view menu only exists in the worksation but it looks like that this already the default mode of the player.
So the easiest way I found with the vmlayer is to first switch to full screen mode, then get back to window mode
and then finally shrink the window to match your needs. So you won't need to use the scroll bars to painfully
reach the icon to change the screen resolution among all these choices. Actually I could improve that
by removing some of these totally useless resolution. I will keep that for my ToDo list on the next Knoppix release.


Editing the "menu.lst" file also worked, which puzzles me as I thought it lived in your read-only images... I see hda1 seems to offer 500MB, although there is no such big file in the VM startup directory; is this allocated on demand by VMWARE? and then from virtual memory or permanent disk? So many questions :roll:
You are correct again. I found out that vmware propose the option to only use disk space
for the guest hdd blocs which have already been allocated and have real data written in them.
So as you will find out , the more you use the hda1 virtual disk, the larger the vmk501.vmdk file will grow.
Reason for me to use ghost as the last step to shrink the vmdk file and only have a 11MB vm once zipped.


Anyway this is a really really nice way of having the best of both worlds. I've colinux working which is an interesting fully OSS solution, but have to admit this is much easier to setup. Thanks again for your wonderful additions to KNOPPIX.
My pleasure. Thank you for your feedback !
Gilles

[Mordecai]

Hi.

I downed johnrw zip and put the files on C: and the 2 big files from 501 DVD in the Knoppix folder.

So when I try to boot it stops with:-

"Check if (0x80) is CD ...........no"

I guess I am missing something?

[Mordecai]

Can please explain how to use the VMWare player with the 2 big files from the DVD as I have not got the .iso CD.

Many thanks.


Edit

OK forget this question I figured out I had to make an iso----duh!

[ruymbeke]

Hello,
Please find below the link to a new version (even smaller: 8MB) using the latest VMware tools (build 34685):
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/vmk501_34685.zip
Have fun, and please provide some feedback...
Gilles


Hello,
I have created a VMware virtual machine (vm) for Knoppix 5.01
with the VMware tools already installed using the ISO boot technique, cf the following 11MB zip file:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/VMK501.ZIP
cf: http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/554
You can try it using the VMPlayer from vmware, cf: http://www.vmware.com/download/player/
This is a very nice way to try Knoppix within windows without any risk.
Knoppix running in a vm is actually the fastest Xserver for Windows I have found so far
including cygwin and some other quite pricy ones ...
Have fun,
Gilles

PS: Please update the cdrom image path to match the location of your Knoppix 5.01 CD or DVD iso file.
After the boot process is complete, please use the full screen mode or resize the vmware application window
to match your needs. The guest X server will change the display settings of the Knoppix 5.01 window
to fit the vmware application window (if the Autofit guest and Resize guest options are enabled in the preferences)

FYI: How does it work ?
I have setup a knoppix.sh in a virtual hdd decompressing in the Knoppix ramdisk a tgz file
including all the vmware tools during the boot process just before the init execution. Thanks the unionfs
the vmware tools are "patching" the Knoppix iso with the ramdisk and are then launched by the init process.
I use grub as a boot loader in the virtual hdd to load the Knoppix kernel and the minirt_usb6.gz boot ramdisk
allowing to change the hostname, patch a couple of bugs and finally boot from the VMware virtual cdrom
mounted from the official Knoppix 5.01 cd or dvd iso. The VMware tools include some key features as:
transparent mouse, fast graphics, shared directories (workstation only), ...

[ruymbeke]

Hello,
Please find below the link to a zip including the kernel and minirt required to boot Knoppix 5.1.0 from the iso file:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno510.zip
Have fun and as usual, please provide some feedback...
Cheers, Gilles

PS: Be very careful to match the pathname casing of the menu.lst and what is really on the disk
(especially in the bootfrom= path ) It looks like that the ntfs-3g (used now) is case sensitive...

PS2: There is some interesting technical discussion about this vm in here:
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=110186#110186

[Harry Kuhman]

Hello,
Please find below the link to a zip including the kernel and minirt required to boot Knoppix 5.1.0 from the iso file:
.....
Amazing, most people have no managed to download the ISO yet and you already have the boot stuff worked out! Would it be too much to ask for a 5.1 virtual machine (or does the 5.t0.1 work for 5.1 also?)

[ruymbeke]

Hi Harry,
Good to read that you like the vm...
The 5.01 vm add-on will not work on 5.1 since it is kernel dependant.
I will work on it as soon as the vm tools will support the new 2.6.19 kernel.
Best Regards,
Gilles



Hello,
Please find below the link to a zip including the kernel and minirt required to boot Knoppix 5.1.0 from the iso file:
.....
Amazing, most people have no managed to download the ISO yet and you already have the boot stuff worked out! Would it be too much to ask for a 5.1 virtual machine (or does the 5.t0.1 work for 5.1 also?)

[kirol]

Please find below the link to a zip including the kernel and minirt required to boot Knoppix 5.1.0 from the iso file:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno510.zipGee, you're fast, Gilles! Do you mean the "bootfrom" cheatcode only works with this (I took it for granted) ? I can only repeat that these and your USB support work should be included in the base knoppix system. It's a little sad to see the effort dispersed between knoppix, kanotix, sidux and perhaps even mepis. Of course I am still very thankful to Klaus, but one cannot help dreaming about what these guys could offer if only they worked together...

Enough ranting; happy new year everyone!


Edit: I've now downloaded the 5.1 CD image, and have had no problem whatsoever adding it to my grub boot menu using your minirt and bootfrom. Neat!

No beryl for me, though, as the "nv" driver is not accelerated. Does anyone know how to persist the nvidia driver across reboots, so I can try this?

[ruymbeke]

My add-on is only required to boot from the ISO file (and using the bootfrom cheatcode).
The original minirt.gz file do not allow for the double loop back (iso & KNOPPIX files)
Happy New Year !
Gilles



Please find below the link to a zip including the kernel and minirt required to boot Knoppix 5.1.0 from the iso file:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/kno510.zipGee, you're fast, Gilles! Do you mean the "bootfrom" cheatcode only works with this (I took it for granted) ? I can only repeat that these and your USB support work should be included in the base knoppix system. It's a little sad to see the effort dispersed between knoppix, kanotix, sidux and perhaps even mepis. Of course I am still very thankful to Klaus, but one cannot help dreaming about what these guys could offer if only they worked together...

Enough ranting; happy new year everyone!

[ruymbeke]

...Would it be too much to ask for a 5.1 virtual machine ?...
Here it is (7.4MB): http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/Vmk510_36983.zip
cf: http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/662
Have fun, and as usual please provide some feedback...
Gilles


Hello,
Please find below the link to a new version (even smaller: 8MB) using the latest VMware tools (build 34685):
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/vmk501_34685.zip
Have fun, and please provide some feedback...
Gilles

Hello,
I have created a VMware virtual machine (vm) for Knoppix 5.01
with the VMware tools already installed using the ISO boot technique, cf the following 11MB zip file:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/VMK501.ZIP
cf: http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/554
You can try it using the VMPlayer from vmware, cf: http://www.vmware.com/download/player/
This is a very nice way to try Knoppix within windows without any risk.
Knoppix running in a vm is actually the fastest Xserver for Windows I have found so far
including cygwin and some other quite pricy ones ...
Have fun,
Gilles

PS: Please update the cdrom image path to match the location of your Knoppix 5.01 CD or DVD iso file.
After the boot process is complete, please use the full screen mode or resize the vmware application window
to match your needs. The guest X server will change the display settings of the Knoppix 5.01 window
to fit the vmware application window (if the Autofit guest and Resize guest options are enabled in the preferences)

FYI: How does it work ?
I have setup a knoppix.sh in a virtual hdd decompressing in the Knoppix ramdisk a tgz file
including all the vmware tools during the boot process just before the init execution. Thanks the unionfs
the vmware tools are "patching" the Knoppix iso with the ramdisk and are then launched by the init process.
I use grub as a boot loader in the virtual hdd to load the Knoppix kernel and the minirt_usb6.gz boot ramdisk
allowing to change the hostname, patch a couple of bugs and finally boot from the VMware virtual cdrom
mounted from the official Knoppix 5.01 cd or dvd iso. The VMware tools include some key features as:
transparent mouse, fast graphics, shared directories (workstation only), ...

[00schmu]

Hello,

I tried VMPlayer on XP, 5.0.1 is running, but I have no internet access on the VM and I cannot find a shared folder or something to pass files between VM and XP.

Please help.

00

[ruymbeke]

Hello,
I don't know why you do not have any internet access on the vm
since it is working for me. Did you check you network settings ?
The vm will be looking for the network parameters from the local
dhcp server, do you have a dhcp server on your local network ?
Shared folders between host and vm is a feature only supported
in the workstation not the vmplayer.
Best Regards,
Gilles


Hello,
I tried VMPlayer on XP, 5.0.1 is running, but I have no internet access on the VM and I cannot find a shared folder or something to pass files between VM and XP.
Please help.
00

[kirol]

Have fun, and as usual please provide some feedback...
Hi Gilles, the VM works fine here for the CD-image, with sound and internet access no problem (I have a dhcp-capable router). The only minor glitch is the long list of useless virtual resolutions offered, as already reported but that's easily worked around.

Thanks & happy new year.

[Harry Kuhman]

It's working for me with both the CD and DVD ISOs, although I've had a few "events". I'm on a wide screen computer this time, which was fine until I started the Stellarium program; that seemed to have issues with the unusual aspect ratio and sudddenly I couldn't mouse to parts of my screen. Things went down hill from there, including loss of background. I was able to reboot and things seemed ok again.

I then hit some problems after running IceWeazel (which is giving some really ugly fonts on this forum), which might be a manifestation of the already reported screen 2 - 3 - 4 lacking toolbar, but I soon had a completely black screen with no known way to get to a toolbar or regain control. A forced shutdown didn't help; the virtual machine just restarted in the same state with an error message about a restart script. I couldn't figure out any other way to get the VM right again so I deleted the current set of files for the virtual machine and put the original set back in.

Strangely, on boot this time there was a kde error message and the screen didn't automatically adjust to the proper size, but after a little coaxing it seems ok.

The clock is 6 hours fast from my EST setting, not quite sure what that's about, seems a little too fast to be on GMT (which I think is only 5 hours off my time zone).

So the VM is working and letting me boot and run the ISO. Not without little things to investigate, but that's how we learn.

[ruymbeke]

Hello,
Please find below the link to the Knoppix 5.11 update of the iso boot minirt and the vm:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/minirt_511.gz
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/vmk511_36983.zip
http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/662 (VMWare link)
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=110103#110103 (more info about this vm)
(The only difference with the previous 5.1.0 release is is the ntfs-3g update)
Have fun, and please provide some feedback...
Gilles

MD5:
d9e36fb34717088e89d3890793307067 *vmk511_36983.zip (7'513'976)
276bb626bd19c7f1af37a8426e9dad35 *minirt_511.gz (2'451'479)

PS: New 5.1.1 vm using the 39849 tools in here:
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=111463#111463

[Salvano]

Hello Gilles,

thank you for this thread. I'm working with an ISO image of Knoppix started via Grub almost since the start of this thread and I always use the files you provided. Now I like to change to 5.11 and I have some problems (same in 5.10). If I use your files, the image is mouted to /media/sda5 and normally a NTFS partition should be there. If I start the live cd directly it can be seen. I have no idea, how to change this. Can you help me?

Thanks Holger

fstab + mtab of Knoppix started via cdrom directly:

/proc /proc proc rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec 0 0
/sys /sys sysfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec 0 0
/dev/shm /dev/shm tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec 0 0
/dev/pts /dev/pts devpts mode=0622 0 0
/dev/fd0 /media/fd0 auto user,noauto,exec,umask=000 0 0
/dev/cdrom /media/cdrom auto user,noauto,exec,ro 0 0
/dev/hdb /media/hdb auto users,noauto,exec,ro 0 0
/dev/hda /media/hda auto users,noauto,exec,ro 0 0
# Added by KNOPPIX
/dev/sda1 /media/sda1 ntfs noauto,users,exec,umask=000,uid=knoppix,gid=knoppi x 0 0
# Added by KNOPPIX
/dev/sda5 /media/sda5 ntfs noauto,users,exec,umask=000,uid=knoppix,gid=knoppi x 0 0
# Added by KNOPPIX
/dev/sda6 /media/sda6 vfat noauto,users,exec,umask=000,shortname=winnt,uid=kn oppix,gid=knoppix 0 0
# Added by KNOPPIX
/dev/sdb1 /media/sdb1 auto noauto,users,exec 0 0
# Added by KNOPPIX
/dev/sdb2 /media/sdb2 vfat noauto,users,exec,umask=000,shortname=winnt,uid=kn oppix,gid=knoppix 0 0

/dev/root / ext2 rw 0 0
/ramdisk /ramdisk tmpfs rw,size=826872k,mode=755 0 0
/UNIONFS /UNIONFS aufs rw,br:/ramdisk:/KNOPPIX:/KNOPPIX2 0 0
/dev/hda /cdrom iso9660 ro 0 0
/dev/cloop /KNOPPIX iso9660 ro 0 0
/dev/cloop2 /KNOPPIX2 iso9660 ro 0 0
/proc/bus/usb /proc/bus/usb usbfs rw,devmode=0666 0 0
/dev/pts /dev/pts devpts rw 0 0
/dev/sda5 /media/sda5 fuseblk ro,nosuid,nodev,noatime,allow_other,blksize=4096 0 0
/dev/sda1 /media/sda1 fuseblk ro,nosuid,nodev,noatime,allow_other,blksize=4096 0 0
/dev/sda6 /media/sda6 vfat ro,nosuid,nodev,umask=000,shortname=winnt,uid=1000 ,gid=1000 0 0


fstab + mtab started via grub and iso image:

/proc /proc proc rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec 0 0
/sys /sys sysfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec 0 0
/dev/shm /dev/shm tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec 0 0
/dev/pts /dev/pts devpts mode=0622 0 0
/dev/fd0 /media/fd0 auto user,noauto,exec,umask=000 0 0
/dev/cdrom /media/cdrom auto user,noauto,exec,ro 0 0
/dev/hdb /media/hdb auto users,noauto,exec,ro 0 0
/dev/hda /media/hda auto users,noauto,exec,ro 0 0
# Added by KNOPPIX
/dev/sda1 /media/sda1 ntfs noauto,users,exec,umask=000,uid=knoppix,gid=knoppi x 0 0
# Added by KNOPPIX
/dev/sda5 /media/sda5 ntfs noauto,users,exec,umask=000,uid=knoppix,gid=knoppi x 0 0
# Added by KNOPPIX
/dev/sda6 /media/sda6 vfat noauto,users,exec,umask=000,shortname=winnt,uid=kn oppix,gid=knoppix 0 0
# Added by KNOPPIX
/dev/sdb1 /media/sdb1 auto noauto,users,exec 0 0
# Added by KNOPPIX
/dev/sdb2 /media/sdb2 vfat noauto,users,exec,umask=000,shortname=winnt,uid=kn oppix,gid=knoppix 0 0

/dev/root / ext2 rw 0 0
/dev/sda1 /cdrom fuseblk ro,nosuid,nodev,noatime,allow_other,blksize=4096 0 0 # ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????
/dev/sda5 /cdrom fuseblk ro,nosuid,nodev,noatime,allow_other,blksize=4096 0 0 # ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????
/dev/sda1 /cdrom fuseblk ro,nosuid,nodev,noatime,allow_other,blksize=4096 0 0 # ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????
/dev/sda1 /cdrom2.loop fuseblk ro,nosuid,nodev,noatime,allow_other,blksize=4096 0 0
/ramdisk /ramdisk tmpfs rw,size=826872k,mode=755 0 0
/UNIONFS /UNIONFS aufs rw,br:/ramdisk:/KNOPPIX:/KNOPPIX2 0 0
/cdrom2.loop/BOOT/knoppix.511/*.iso /cdrom/ iso9660 ro,loop=/dev/loop0 0 0
/dev/cloop /KNOPPIX iso9660 ro 0 0
/dev/cloop2 /KNOPPIX2 iso9660 ro 0 0
/proc/bus/usb /proc/bus/usb usbfs rw,devmode=0666 0 0
/dev/pts /dev/pts devpts rw 0 0
/dev/sda6 /media/sda6 vfat ro,nosuid,nodev,umask=000,shortname=winnt,uid=1000 ,gid=1000 0 0

[groenewe]

Hello Gilles,

I've downloaded the most recent incarnation of your VMK archive (link: http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/vmk511_34685.zip)
and am a little worried by the internal version number (5.0.1_34685) and file date (the vmdk file is dated dec. 10th 2006).
Are you sure this is indeed the version intended for Knoppix 5.1.1?

Regards
Henri Groeneweg

[ruymbeke]

Hello Gilles,
I've downloaded the most recent incarnation of your VMK archive (link: http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/vmk511_34685.zip)
and am a little worried by the internal version number (5.0.1_34685) and file date (the vmdk file is dated dec. 10th 2006).
Are you sure this is indeed the version intended for Knoppix 5.1.1?
Regards
Henri Groeneweg
Hi Henri,
You are absolutely correct and I apologize for this. I got a typo when creating the url...
The correct file is: http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/vmk511_36983.zip
Best Regards,
Gilles

[Salvano]

Hello Gilles,

thank you for this thread. I'm working with an ISO image of Knoppix started via Grub almost since the start of this thread and I always use the files you provided. Now I like to change to 5.11 and I have some problems (same in 5.10). If I use your files, the image is mouted to /media/sda5 and normally a NTFS partition should be there. If I start the live cd directly it can be seen. I have no idea, how to change this. Can you help me?

Thanks Holger

...


The problem I have seems to be caused by umount commands wich not work as I would expect.
Example within linuxrc:


for i in $DEVICES; do
echo -n "${CRE}${BLUE}Looking for ${MEDIUM} in: ${MAGENTA}$i${NORMAL} "
if mountit $i /cdrom "-o ro" >/dev/null 2>&1; then
if test -r /cdrom/$KNOPPIX_DIR/$KNOPPIX_NAME; then
echo -n "${CRE}${GREEN}Accessing KNOPPIX ${MEDIUM} at ${MAGENTA}$i${GREEN}...${NORMAL}"
FOUND_KNOPPIX="$i"
break
fi
umount /cdrom
cat /etc/mtab # (*1*) additional line to trace mtab, I had some other lines too, but this is the important one
fi
done

During the probe with $i == /dev/sda1 and $i == /dev/sda5, I get an extention of mtab and the umount /cdrom don't remove the corresponding lines. This can I see past line (*1*).
If I remove the the probing completly the lines


/dev/sda1 /cdrom fuseblk ro,nosuid,nodev,noatime,allow_other,blksize=4096 0 0
/dev/sda5 /cdrom fuseblk ro,nosuid,nodev,noatime,allow_other,blksize=4096 0 0

disappear within the mtab of the running system. (These lines were marked in my previous post.) But one line


/dev/sda1 /cdrom fuseblk ro,nosuid,nodev,noatime,allow_other,blksize=4096 0 0

left. It seems to be added in one of the following steps.

Does anyone know something about such problems with the umount command during the start process of linux?

Regards

Holger

[mr-roboto]

I tried doing a search on 'minirt', but the forum sware as configured doesn't allow one to hop from post to post on a search, which is nec for a topic as long as this one....

[ruymbeke]

I tried doing a search on 'minirt', but the forum sware as configured doesn't allow one to hop from post to post on a search, which is nec for a topic as long as this one....
Hi,
As far as I know, "minirt" is a short for mini root which is the initial root file system
loaded by the boot loader at the same time as the kernel and used during the boot process
to bring up a linux system alive. The initial boot script (linuxrc) is part of the minirt.
Hope this helps,
Gilles

cf Knoppix wiki: http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Knoppix_Custom_Kernel_Howto ( THE KNOPPIX BOOT PROCESS)

[ruymbeke]

...The problem I have seems to be caused by umount commands wich not work as I would expect. ...
Hi Salvano,
Thank you for the info.
I have seen this problem and would like to investigate when I have more time...
It may be because of the redundant mount/unmount codes available and used:
stand alone /static/mount binary or built-in ash & bash, ...
Cheers,
Gilles

[mrsalmonella]

I have a hack to get around the mount problems. I've tacked the following lines onto linuxrc (using ruymbeke's minirt.gz) just before the call to exit():

# SMartin - HACK below just forces unmount of ntfs drive
# we are booting from (if we are booting from one)
# and gets mtab back in sync if its messed up.
/sbin/umount.ntfs ${LOOP_SOURCE} > /dev/null 2>&1
cat /proc/mounts > /etc/mtab


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I now have behavior like I had before with 4.02 without the mount complications tying up my ISO boot partition.
Now, it would be nice to fully know what tripped up the latest distributions...

[Salvano]

I have a hack to get around the mount problems. I've tacked the following lines onto linuxrc (using ruymbeke's minirt.gz) just before the call to exit():

# SMartin - HACK below just forces unmount of ntfs drive
# we are booting from (if we are booting from one)
# and gets mtab back in sync if its messed up.
/sbin/umount.ntfs ${LOOP_SOURCE} > /dev/null 2>&1
cat /proc/mounts > /etc/mtab


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I now have behavior like I had before with 4.02 without the mount complications tying up my ISO boot partition.
Now, it would be nice to fully know what tripped up the latest distributions...

This works for my system too.

Thank you.

Holger

[mr-roboto]

Hi,
As far as I know, "minirt" is a short for mini root which is the initial root file system
loaded by the boot loader at the same time as the kernel and used during the boot process
to bring up a linux system alive. The initial boot script (linuxrc) is part of the minirt.
Hope this helps,
Gilles

cf Knoppix wiki: http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Knoppix_Custom_Kernel_Howto ( THE KNOPPIX BOOT PROCESS)

Gilles: Thanx for the info. Lurking on the discussion, I got the mistaken impression that MINIRT is something custom w/ some kind of extra (cool) capabilities for controlling the boot process....

[ruymbeke]

Hello,
If updated the linuxrc to use fusermount -uz /cdrom (and not umount /cdrom) in order to not mess up
the /etc/mtab. The partition hosting the iso file is now mounted properly in /media with a link to /mnt
and is now accessible from KDE. But I still cannot make it writable from kde nor from a su shell.
As a dirty work around I added two kernel cheatcodes: ntfs_rw & linuxrc_exit=...
in order to boot with the partition holding the iso file as writable (ntfs_rw) and
run any program before exiting the linuxrc for debug purpose (linuxrc_exit=/static/bash)
Please find below a link to this updated alpha test version of minirt:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/minirt_511a.gz
FYI, ntfs-3g -o remount is not supported yet, but if the ntfs partition is not used to boot
mount -o remount works just fine... Any help to investigate why the ntfs-3g driver behaves differently
for the mount/umont and prevent to write in the iso boot partition will be greatly apretiated.
Best Regards,
Gilles

[martx]

Hi there i am booting knoppix from my NTFS partition and simply loving it!

Thanks Gilles!

However i was wondering if i could do the same with damn small linux for older machines?

[axitvn]

Hello i am newbie, i want to ask something :
1/ I can not download from link : http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/vmk511_36983.zip (only can down about 15% than stop) anyone can help me up it to somewhere else.
2/ Is that only need vmk511_36983.zip, Vmware player we can iso boot from ntfs ?
3/ And like Martx, i want to know can we use other linux not knoppix ?

Sorry if it is too noob, i don't know anything about linux :P

Thanks at first !

[ruymbeke]

1/ I can not download from link : http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/vmk511_36983.zip (only can down about 15% than stop) anyone can help me up it to somewhere else.
I just checked again that the download is ok from various locations and
since nobody complained about it before, I would guess that the problem is on your side.


2/ Is that only need vmk511_36983.zip, Vmware player we can iso boot from ntfs ?
vmk511_36983.zip is a vmware virtual machine to run Knoppix 5.1.1 with installed tools.
The minirt_511a.gz (or minirt_511.gz) & grldr (grub bootloader) are the tools required
to boot form a iso cd/dvd image file stored on a ntfs (XP) partition.


3/ And like Martx, i want to know can we use other linux not knoppix ?
As far as I know what I propose here only works with Knoppix (and it's derivative). (Same kernel, modules,...)
And obviously what I have done can be done for other linux distro was well but with some work,
which can be significant...

Best Regards,
Gilles

[martx]

Hmm Damn Small Linux is a derivative of knoppix, although perhaps they are now on different kernels and stuff...

Thanks anyway!

[axitvn]

Thanks Gilles ! I have another question, how can you make vmx, vmdk files ? Is there a tool or your write it by yourself ? I want to try some other linux so if i can do it by myself, it is great.

[ruymbeke]

Thanks Gilles ! I have another question, how can you make vmx, vmdk files ? Is there a tool or your write it by yourself ? I want to try some other linux so if i can do it by myself, it is great.
I used vmware workstation which is the paid version of the player.
Among other features, it allow you to create/edit the vm settings,
run multiple vm on a host and have share folders between host and guest.
You may want to try the server version which is much closer to the workstation than the player.
Or give a try to: http://www.easyvmx.com/easyvmx.shtml
Hope this helps.
Best Regards,
Gilles

[axitvn]

Ah, Gilles, thank you very much. I have tried your link and i can run Xpresslinux with VM player now so that some others may run too.

One more time thank you !