Flash_Boot_Only_iso? A Possible Suggestions to Mr KNOPPER ?

[knp]

Hi

Is someone able to suggest to Mr Knopper to eventually create:

1- A Flash_Boot_Only_iso (or other of the same kind?).


Essential Motivations:

1a - DVD's and CD's will soon disappear (I guess).

1b- So one may boot a whole file_iso by the cheatcode "bootfrom=..."

1c- One may install Knoppix when and where one choose to install.

2- This method "temporizes relatively" the usage of CD's
and DVD's

Thanks

knp

[Werner P. Schulz]

Since some years this is within the DVD. If you use mc (MidnightCommander), you can look into the content of the Knoppix DVD ISO and at the positition '/KNOPPIX/' you'll find the file 'bootonly.iso' (and his md5sum). Burn this file to a CD or use it within VirtualBox, VMWare or kvm-qemu.

[utu]

The boot-only iso and its md5sum is also usually available on current LiveDVDs or LiveUSBs at /mnt-system/KNOPPIX/...

[knp]

@ W.P.Schulz
@ Utu

Thanks you for your propositions. I did not know that the "boot-only_CD" is also a file hidden in the places you kindly indicate me.But why to hide it?

I found also this file on the repository of "Free_fr".

Nevertheless I had not well formulated my "idea" which I attempt to make more clear: "my" goal (somewhat") is to "Never use the CD_DVD_Reader".

Evidently this would not meat the profound project of Mr Knopper who
focalizes on "CD_DVD"...

But concerning ONLY "a Flash_Boot", this cannot affect the real project on "CD_DVD"

My Proposition (if possibl!...):
I think that he is surely able to conceive a unique FILE for booting_ONLY_DIRECTLY on Flash even if one DOES NOT POSSESES a Cd_Dvd_Reader.
The Boot_Only_Cd NEEDS necessarily a CD_DVD_Reader (its name tells us about!).

ADVANTAGEs (if possible!...):
1- Booting on such a Flash (No Cd_Reader!) one may use quasi
"entirely an "iso_file" without installing Knoppix (on Hdd or
Burning).

2- So one can Burn or install when wanted via the "iso_file" used
via the "bootfrom=" cheatcode called AFTER the EVENTUAL
"Boot_Only_Flash"

It is essential to understanding me:
AVOID ENTIRELY ANY CD_DVD_READER.

Because I guess that the CD's and DVD's will disappear relatively "soon".

I hope to have been clear enough.

Best regards

knp

[superman]

Hi, knp:

If the subject of interest is to create a bootonly.xxx file which can be written to a flash drive in a clone fashion and then use the resulting flash drive to boot the ISO file of KNOPPIX CD/DVD resided on another device, rather than dedicating an entire Gigabyte-size flash drive to those files with total size of less than 50MB, most of the Linux bootloaders can be used to boot the existing bootonly.iso file and then the KNOPPIX be started as usual. Although I have only tried to boot the compressed KNOPPIX file (7.2.0) resided on the hard disc using a flash drive containing the matching bootonly.iso file and EXTLINUX related files, I assume that there should be no problem to boot the ISO image of KNOPPIX CD/DVD in a similar fashion.

The list of files on the testing flash drive is as follows,


knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ tree /media/sdb1
/media/sdb1
├── boot
│ └── syslinux
│ ├── extlinux.conf
│ ├── knx720bootcd.iso
│ ├── ldlinux.sys
│ └── memdisk
└── lost+found [error opening dir]

3 directories, 4 files

*knx720bootcd.iso is the renamed KNOPPIX_V7.2.0bootonly-2013-06-16-EN.iso.

[utu]

@knp
I have not tried the following, but there is this interesting note in Klaus K's description of what's new in Knoppix 7.6.
Why don't you give this a try and tell us if it works for you.

Update: Computers without DVD drive

The flash-knoppix script since Knoppix 7.6.0 supports on-the-fly conversion of a DVD ISO image for direct flashing of a USB pendrive or disk. By using this, the intermediate step of burning a DVD and booting from it, can be skipped. For burning a CD or DVD, only one single .iso file matching your language and version choice, is sufficient. For using this feature, just add the name of the .iso file as commandline parameter to flash-knoppix like this: flash-knoppix KNOPPIX_V7.6.0DVD-2015-11-21-EN.iso

[superman]

Hi, knp:

I have just tried out to boot the ISO image of KNOPPIX V7.6.0 DVD using the method as mentioned in the post #5, and the outcome is sweeeet... Also, booting previous releases of KNOPPIX DVD (7.2.0 and 7.4.2) using their corresponding bootonly.iso images are all OK! By the way, the content of extlinux.conf used for the preliminary test as mentioned in the post #5 is as follows,



LABEL knx720
LINUX memdisk
INITRD knx720bootcd.iso
APPEND iso raw

[knp]

@superman,@utu

@superman

Thanks you for your very good idea for CREATING a boot_Flash_only.

But one seems to NEED knop_7.6 installed somewhere (Hdd,Dvd...).

Because one has to "PICK" somewhere the "boot_only_CD.iso" File.

(your #5... Code) and (#2,#3 of Schulz and utu).

This file is not furnished on the repositories.


Does your method need some kind of formatting the Flash?

Do "Creating DIRECTLY Folders and Copying Files" suffice to make

the Flash bootable?...

In your Code you refer to some "extlinux.conf".

"ext"...(= "extended" for your own "notations"?) (="Extended_FS"?)

You are a real "Linux_Expert" on the contrary of some of your

suggestions in other threads!

You discover that I am an entire newbie for many reasons.

Thanks you and see also the last post of utu (#6)

@utu

This seems to be my goal: Not any previous use of DVD!! Thanks you.

I shall read the entire text you refer to and send you my

experience on about one week.


Best regards to all of you.

knp

[utu]

.
I think there may be a conceptual problem here.

I believe it likely to be true that once you have a Knoppix 7.6 LiveDVD or LiveUSB,
the Knoppix menu function, flash-knoppix, in Knoppix 7.6, will use a dd operation
to prepare other additional LiveDVDs &/or LiveUSBs using hybrid isos as sources.
It appears that zenity prompts are there to assist locating and specifying appropriate
media and isos.

If the Knoppix 7.6 information is correct, this seems to infer that this function of
flash-knoppix in 7.6 is itself an upgrade which provides this new function, presumably
not previously a feature of flash-knoppix.

This may explain how having a Live 7.6 Knoppix might allow making Live systems of
other versions of Knoppix Live system isos, like 7.2 and 7.4.2, for example.

[Werner P. Schulz]

But one seems to NEED knop_7.6 installed somewhere (Hdd,Dvd...).
Because one has to "PICK" somewhere the "boot_only_CD.iso" File.Did you really read my posting? You don't need to install Knoppix; only download the ISO and open it within mc.

[utu]

Did you really read my posting? You don't need to install Knoppix; only download the ISO and open it within mc.

Hello, Werner.

I read your posting.
I had no idea opening things with mc was so magical.

Both you and Klaus K have some magic to tell us about.
What does it mean to 'open something with mc'?

[Werner P. Schulz]

To "open" the ISO within mc: Select the downloaded ISO and [Enter]. You'll see the content of the ISO: "KNOPPIX, boot, efi ...". Select KNOPPIX and [Enter]. Now you'll see the file bootonly.iso. Copy this file to another position and burn it to a CD or use it within VirtualBox, VMWare or kvm-qemu.

[knp]

@w.p.Schulz @utu

@schulz

Yes I read your posting, found the boot_only_cd_iso and copied it

somewhere as I mentionned already.

Now this NOT a problem to find it...Utu also gave another method (into

live_flash___mnt-system).

But you say : " ...copy it and BURN ...or useit within...".

My "problem" (for a newbie!) was: "No use of Cd_Dvd_Burner!

Moreover using VirtualBox needs (for me) the knoppix ALREADY running: that

virtualbox furnished by knoppix_7.6. I guess there are other

methods for virtualbox independently. But this would be far from the

original post.

superman gives a very good way for CREATING a Flash_boot_only...with success.

utu gave a very good KK_reference of what I exactly want despite I cannot try

immediatly.

This reference is worthwhile to insist on and review.

@utu

1- You referred yourself to the boot_only_cd within the "mnt-system" of the live_Flash.

2- So I understand your question about "Opening the file...."...conceptual etc...

3- The reference you gave me in #6 may work very well. I shall try after some days.

Best regards to all 3 helpers.

knp

[utu]

To "open" the ISO within mc: Select the downloaded ISO and [Enter]. You'll see the content of the ISO: "KNOPPIX, boot, efi ...". Select KNOPPIX and [Enter]. Now you'll see the file bootonly.iso. Copy this file to another position and burn it to a CD or use it within VirtualBox, VMWare or kvm-qemu.

This cannot be inferred as a solution from the premise that one doesn't have a cd/dvd capability and the statement:

The flash-knoppix script since Knoppix 7.6.0 supports on-the-fly conversion of a DVD ISO image for direct flashing of a USB pendrive...

[superman]

Hi, knp:

Thanks for the feedback regarding the approach described in the post #5. I'm neither a computer guru nor being always on the same channel as others... Additionally, from my viewpoint, the mentioned approach is merely a temporary measure to boot up KNOPPIX (in general) using the matching version of bootonly.iso because the versatility of this approach relies on the capability of the bootloader installed on the device. At the moment, the EFI counterpart of memdisk used for loading the bootonly.iso is yet to be implemented and thus this method has no use for computers having no BIOS support. By the way, thanks for bringing this idea up, so that I can get my KNOPPIX DVD archives organised.

================================================== =====

Hi, utu:


.
...
I believe it likely to be true that once you have a Knoppix 7.6 LiveDVD or LiveUSB,
the Knoppix menu function, flash-knoppix, in Knoppix 7.6, will use a dd operation
to prepare other additional LiveDVDs &/or LiveUSBs using hybrid isos as sources.
...

If the DVD of KNOPPIX 7.6.0 is being referred to, the output of fdisk doesn't show that the DVD is of an isohybrid image.


This cannot be inferred as a solution from the premise that one doesn't have a cd/dvd capability and the statement:

The flash-knoppix script since Knoppix 7.6.0 supports on-the-fly conversion of a DVD ISO image for direct flashing of a USB pendrive...
Despite I haven't tried out the installation of KNOPPIX 7.6.0 using the built-in flash-knoppix command, I don't see why installing KNOPPIX in this fashion is hampered so long as the computer is able to be booted up via BIOS routine, the primary bootloader to load the bootonly.iso file to the ram and the DVD iso file to be on a different device than the target. Just to be on the safe side, the bootonly.iso file used for booting the currently running KNOPPIX is also on a different device than the target.

[knp]

@utu, @superman

Please have a look on this text quoted from "infos... ADRIANE_Knoppix_7.2 and 7.0):

"
But it is easy to create a bootable USB-stick or flashcard from a running Knoppix system, as described in the next section.
Booting from Flash

file:///home/knoppix/T%C3%A9l%C3%A9chargements/KNOPPIX%207.2.0%20_%20ADRIANE%201.5%20-%20Live%20CD%20_%20DVD%20knoppix%20usb_boot_only_f ichiers/sd.png In order to create a bootable USB-medium (memory flashdisk, SD-card, digital camera with USB connector, cellphone with microSD, ...), the program flash-knoppix can be started from a running Knoppix ".

1- So the citation given by utu from Mr K.K. is very worthwhile and "conceptual".

The referred "Flash-Program" is not INDEPENDANT. This program "cannot" be

used for an "iso_file" BEFORE having BURNT the "CD_Boot_Only" .

( via the cheatcode "bootfrom=.....*.iso" ).

2- I do'nt understand "the On_the_Fly" method" for "flashing" the "boot_only_CD"

(or other).

3- Moreover I have to perform that "VirtualBox" furnished by the live "knoppix_7.2":

It accept the "Boot_Only_CD" ...but not my "7.6_iso_File" for the moment.

2 reasons apparently:

a- Usage of "USB_Devices" which needs an update of VirtualBox.

b- the "iso_File" (4.1 Go > 4Go) has been copied somewhat "profoundly":

*** on a folder of a "knoppix_system_device or

*** not on the root of a "NTFS_Partition".

I hope to succed.

3- I have not tried yet the good superman's method: I have to be acquainted with

Syslinux before.

I am waiting news. Thanks you altogether.

knp

[utu]

2- I do'nt understand "the On_the_Fly" method" for "flashing" the "boot_only_CD"

A Linux live system iso is a single read-only file which on proper expansion
contains (at least) three things:
1. a slighly smaller read-only iso, which on expansion defines a comlete
working linux system;
2. executable program material necessary for booting an initial, slightly smaller
read-only system iso, and for combining this with parallel read-write
material;
3. executable program material to set-up a parallel read-write linux system
to collect and retain changes to the initial linux system.

I use the Windows partition of my laptop
to download Knoppix and other Live system isos and
to store these isos on the Windows system ntfs partition.

With a Live Linux -iso other than Knoppix-, I also use Windows and either
one of two free windows programs, Unetbootin or UniversalUSBInstaller,
to make a Live Linux USB.

With Knoppix, since I have a CD/DVD in my computer,
I make a Knoppix LiveCD or LiveDVD, and from a menu choice on either of these,
I use 'Knoppix Install to Flash' to make a Live Knoppix USB.

Windows Unetbootin, UniversalUSBIstaller and Knoppix 'Install to Flash Disk' each
may be used to provide three functions on a LiveUSB given a LiveUSB iso file:
1. a means of booting a compact, read-only LiveUSB system iso;
2. a compact read-only bootable iso of a working linux system; and, optionally
3. a means of providing a read/write persistence element to save material,
including system changes to be available on reboot.


http://unetbootin.github.io/#other
http://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/

I think the essential ingredient of Unetbootin, UniversalUSBInstaller and
Install-to-Flash-Disk which allows making a LiveUSB from a LiveUSB iso
may be the command dd which, is of the form:


sudo dd if=/dev/if of=/dev/of bs=4k && sync
where, for example
if=/media/sda3/Users/User/isos/LiveUSB.iso (on the ntfs partition) and
and of=/media/sdc1 (the targeted USB)

Rather than use a dd command-line approach by itself, it is somewhat safer
to use a gui such as Unetbootin, UniversalUSBInstaller or 'Install to Flash Disk,
because of the downside of mis-identifying if and of devices. If one specifies
the Windows OS device as an output, dd it will over-write the Windows OS, and
this is essentially an un-recoverable error. Obviously, this error is only less
likely, but still a possiblility even when using the gui approach.

I think dd in some guise may be what Klaus K means when he uses the terms
'on-th-fly method' or 'direct flashing'. It is the only way I can imagine how to
get a Linux LiveUSB.iso to end up as a Live Linux system on a USB device,
without the use of an intermediate LiveCD or or LiveDVD product.

Academics are proud of phrases like 'it can be shown that' which cause much
consternation in some circles, but allow a great economy in text.

[knp]

Hi utu

Thanks you. I think also that you had pointed the right "interpretation_correction" to do.

I had forgotten "unetbootin and pendrive" for their relative "instability" and these
reasons among others (relative to my material some years ago):

1- Unetbootin had refused twice to work.
2- Pendrive used to lack compatibility with the LAST versions ("iso_files).
Moreover the done installation did not save settings.
3- On this forum some senior members recommended not to use them nor other programs
for knoppix_installation.

Perhaps these programs have been updated (quasi surely).
But I work with a very old laptop which can boot on many devices...CD_DVD in particular.
So updated windows_based_programs may not work.
Nevetheless I shall try again these programs because you also are very experimented.

I arised this problem for these reasons (very shortly).
a- I got an knop_7.6_iso_file.
b- I did not have any free CD_DVD...Then, EQUIVALENTLY, "I had No DVD_Writer" !!!!).
c- I tried to boot the "7.6_iso_file" with my "7.2_boot_only_CD".
I thought that the error came from combining "Knop_7.2" and "Knop_7.6"
...and so on....for the thread.

Nevertheless:

a- It may be useful to be able to use the same "boot_only_CD" for the different variants
of the same knoppix. I mean one "boot_CD" for ALL " Knoppix_7.** " by example.

b- it may be very useful to conceive different kinds of "boot_only_DEVICES" and propose
them on the repositories (or in the folder "iso_KNOPPIX" like the "boot_only_CD_FILE"
reachable by the Midnight_Commander as W.P.Schulz told us).

Thanks you very much utu

knp

[utu]

c- I tried to boot the "7.6_iso_file" with my "7.2_boot_only_CD".
I thought that the error came from combining "Knop_7.2" and "Knop_7.6"
...and so on....for the thread.
I also thought this might work, but it didn't.
flash-knoppix for 7.6 is a larger program than that in 7.4 so that might account for different capabilities.
I don't think we have a good simple answer on how to bootstrap a Knoppix 7.6 LiveUSB without a dvd burner.
I'm pretty sure it is possible using dd, but that doesnt help automate booting and persistence.

[knp]

OK...
But we must hope and search since it's not very urgent.
Best regards
knp