apt-get upgrade, better I wouldn't have done it

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10-29-2005, 01:14 PM
leg_of_pinguin

apt-get upgrade, better I wouldn't have done it

We use(d, actually) knoppix 3.8.1, all worked fine and we were happy.

Today we decided "to upgrade" our system. I verified by "apt-get upgrade -s" that we receive only "stable" and "testing" packages.

Run...

After computer restart, we've got surprises:
1) KDE is not running (asks for password, starts to log-in, then black screen, then KDE again asks for password,... )
2) NIS server YP binding takes ~10 min during each start-up. It is not responding to Ctrl-Z, Ctrl-Q, Esc, whatever.

Currently I'm saving my files for reinstall the Knoppix from scratch (using Windows :(

Any help is appreciated

PS I'm completely newbie to Linux, seems (well, only 6 month of user experience)

PS It is so very very sad, that apt-get doesn't work for "simple" user
10-29-2005, 01:50 PM
Markus

Re: apt-get upgrade, better I wouldn't have done it

Quote:

Originally Posted by leg_of_pinguin

We use(d, actually) knoppix 3.8.1, all worked fine and we were happy.

Today we decided "to upgrade" our system. I verified by "apt-get upgrade -s" that we receive only "stable" and "testing" packages.

Run...

After computer restart, we've got surprises:
1) KDE is not running (asks for password, starts to log-in, then black screen, then KDE again asks for password,... )

http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21389

Quote:

2) NIS server YP binding takes ~10 min during each start-up. It is not responding to Ctrl-Z, Ctrl-Q, Esc, whatever.

apt-get --purge remove nis

Quote:

PS It is so very very sad, that apt-get doesn't work for "simple" user

apt-get does work, it's just knoppix that wasn't meant to be installed on a hd.
10-30-2005, 09:17 AM
ckamin

Quote:

Originally Posted by leg_of_pinguin

PS I'm completely newbie to Linux, seems (well, only 6 month of user experience)

With little experience in Linux, It would not be recommended to try something like installing Knoppix to HD. Knoppix is intended as a Live Disk version of Linux. It is meant to be run from the disk and not from a HDD. Many experienced users have installed it with various levels of success. You would be much better served by installaing a distro that IS intended for HDD installation. Debian is a good choice and has some of the same "feel" as Knoppix, since Knoppix is derived from Debian. Installing Knoppix to the hard drive takes a lot of experience with Linux to iron out the wrinkles. It has issues when installed to the HD as you have been finding out. It does not always work the way you would expect it to.
10-30-2005, 10:37 AM
Harry Kuhman

Re: apt-get upgrade, better I wouldn't have done it

Quote:

Originally Posted by leg_of_pinguin

apt-get upgrade, better I wouldn't have done it

yup, that's the prime reason why many of us advise users not to install Knoppix but to install Debian or some other distro that is intended for hard disk install. Not the only reason, but right at the top of the list. See this post if you want more details.

If you don't mind my asking, did you see any of these warnings before installing Knoppix? Why did you decide to install it over Debain or any other Distro that is intended for hard disk? I'm really trying to understand why people do this.
10-30-2005, 12:30 PM
leg_of_pinguin

Thanks your so much for your help
I was ready to give up.

Now, details

Markus, thank you much for you help. I'm so relieved now. I feel "I'm not crazy".

Harry Kuhman, I have seen no places someone mentioned that knoppix install is not a fully-debian compatiable. I've read more then 100 pages of various documentation about Knoppix, and all claimed that Knoppix becomes Debian after it is installed on HD.

Only now, when you mentioned it, I've found other articles in Internet saying what you've said. This is essentially important information and it must be provided to all Knoppix users.

Since I've backed up everything, I will look now for a more appropriate Linux version.

My parameters are:
* Good and AUTOMATIC recognition of hardware (I tried once to add a driver to kernel, you don't want to know about this)
* Possibility to update software
* Adequate tuning ability

My wife uses OpenOffice and needs "Words count" option -> OpenOffice 2.0
We also watch movies, so I'd like to have support for "mp3", "avi", "wmz" formats
We speak Hebrew, Russian and English, so I'd like "Kopete", "OpenOffice" to support these languages.
We have a small home network + router
We HATE HATE HATE unstable behavior
We are not linux guru :( (It took me yesterday 2 hours to learn how to copy a directory "cp -a -r")

Please advise :)
10-30-2005, 11:23 PM
markpreston

Maybe Knoppix HD installs should come with a health warning - do not do apt-get upgrade.

This topic has been discussed before many times, but maybe
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20369
would help give further insights that might help you decide what to do for the future.
A better way to upgrade Knoppix might be to wait for the next Knoppix CD or DVD version to come out and install that to the hard disk.
Then re-install your personal files from a backup. If the 3.8.1 Knoppix HD install kept you happy for a while then maybe this would be a good bet.
Stable Debian is very stable, but will probably not be the best choice for watching movies, and it comes with OpenOffice 1.1x installed by default.
For word counting type
man wc
at a terminal prompt.
Installing Debian can be hard work, and setting up the upgrade environment is also an art form. To do it anything like properly you need to find out about aptitude, debconf, dpkg, apt-setup, /etc/apt/sources.list, apt-cache, pinning and /etc/apt/preferences, debsums, source versus binary packages and dependencies.
Personally I find Knoppix works well as a HD install. It sets up Linux, Apache 1.3, MySQL and PHP nicely whereas Debian will set up PostgreSQL instead of MySQL by default. This doesn't mean it is impossible to set up MySQL with Debian, but it is harder.

Regards,
Mark
10-31-2005, 02:01 AM
Kowood

Yea....There should be something in the Knoppix-installer app that makes you click lots of things that say "Hey...Use Debian. Knoppix sucks on hd." and a disclaimer stating that it's sid, unstable as hell (the entire OS might as well be in /var), and that the dudes at knoppix.net can't always help you.
10-31-2005, 09:19 AM
leg_of_pinguin

Knoppix is excellent for beginning.

The information "don't upgrade knoppix" is not published clear enough, true. It costed me entire weekend to deal with it, and I could have done better things :(

Community of this forum is warm, nice and one of the best I ever seen in the Internet. Actually this is an only place where I received *answers*.

Yesterday I have installed "Ubuntu 5.10". Everything seems fine. They say Hebrew support has bug in OpenOffice 2.0. I think it will be fixed eventually.