Can anyone steer me to a document or howto that explains how to do this using a Knoppix?
Looking for a document which shows me how to boot Knoppix to do this where the thin client user logons and his entire "X" desktop experience is on the Knoppix server and NOT on the client PC.
If anyone knows of a document or some search parms where I can find additional information, it would be enormously appreciate.
Thanks in advance.
I think your looking for x forwarding.
http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/...g_with_OpenSSH
Hello,
Do you have any particular thin client scenario in mind ?
Do you have any particular thin client technology in mind ? Like PXE / tftp boot or xdmcp or vnc / rdp perhaps ?
Is there an emphasis on "entire" here ?Quote:
Originally Posted by GCMartin
Many years ago I used vnc sessions to pretend I wasn't on a Windows box but a cheap X terminal. That might not be "entire" enough for you.
I've also used xdmcp to do the same thing. I still use that to log on to other Linux boxes around the house without having to leave this room. I'm not sure how well that would work with Knoppix where you don't actually have to log on.
There's always Xming but that again might not be "entire" enough for you. The problem is you still need a X server environment running on client machines.
The PXE / tftp boot approach may be what you are really after. The client machines use their BIOS network boot option to boot Knoppix from some other machine.
I think that is called Knoppix Terminal server. You'll find it under the LXDE Preferences menu, Look for the item under Start KNOPPIX Terminal Server. As for documentation, if you can find any, I suggest you read with caution. The underlying principles won't have changed but the details may well have.
I haven't used the Knoppix Terminal server and my experience of using PXE has been limited to copy/paste/edit of an existing configuration to add new (embedded, not PC) clients. I would expect what documentation you can find assumes you are familiar with network booting and would be limited to the few Knoppix specifics.
There was a chap on the forums the other week who thought a PXE server would be, as he put it 'really awesome'. I don't think he'll come back and tell us when he's got it all working somehow. You will won't you ?
@Forester. Thanks for your help.
"Yes" I am looking for the "VNC like" approach, where, my local "terminal" gets a Knoppix logon screen; fill it in and is running such that his monitor, mouse clicks, and keyboard experience drives applications running on the Knoppix server he logged into over the LAN.
Please note that when I say Knoppix server I mean the machine that an administrator has setup for users to logon to. And when I say Knoppix client I mean the machine across the LAN that will be used as a thin client.
I am familiar with the Knoppix Terminal Server from the Knoppix Menu and am aware that when started a PXE client will/can connect, get his OS loaded from the Knoppix server and be running with an OS on the client machine.
Question:
This PXE boot...Once the clients boots, Does the clients use of its desktop applications run those applications on the local PC using local CPU-RAM or si the client integrated into the server such that all work is occurring on the server and NOT on the client?
Thanks in advance for any help in my understanding which of these is occurring.
If you use PXE boot, you get a new "private" desktop on the server system, displayed on the local system - it can access local resources, but mostly it uses those of the server, and any settings you make will be for the (new?) user defined on that system.
VNC, on the other hand, allows you to "take over" (share) the visible desktop of the already running remote system (of the logged-in user) without initiating a new boot process. Desktop setting changes you make, for instance, will affect that system's user, and it might even be running Windows. You can switch between looking at/controlling things running on the remote system and stuff on the local system. Or, you can initiate things on the remote system and disconnect, then shut down and get over to the remote system (which could take an overland/oversea journey, perhaps.) When you get there, the processes initiated remotely will still (hopefully) be functioning, e.g. a long printout on a work system started from home that's halfway finished when you get to work.
Cheers!
Krishna :mrgreen:
The short answer is I don't know: I haven't run Knoppix as a PXE server. There are two variables, if you like.Quote:
Originally Posted by GCMartin
On the one hand you have X Windows. To run a Linux desktop you need a X server, which you can think of as software that handles the output (screen) and input (keyboard and mouse) devices. Under the X window system these need not be (and in the early days before Linux and before PCs usually were not) connected directly to the host computer. On PCs (and especially under MS Windows operating systems) it is assumed they are.
On the other hand you have PXE. When you boot Knoppix on a CD you are using the boot loader called isolinux, when you boot Knoppix on a USB you are using syslinux. Both boot what a configuration file tells them to boot, which happens to be the full Knoppix. I believe with PXE we are talking about telling the PC BIOS to boot from the network instead of CD or USB. It will boot pxelinux from your Knoppix server and will use a configuration file on the Knoppix server to boot ... I don't know and I don't know how much you can change the configuration file.
When I used PXE, a couple of years back, we booted a full embedded Linux with no desktop. So I imagine PXE booting the full Knoppix. In this case, once booted, the client does not use server resources. This is not a "thin" client as I understand the term. I imagine it requires lots of memory 'cos I imagine the full Knoppix CD, unpacked, is stored in RAM. I don't think the usual Knoppix persistent store would be available either.
Alternatively, PXE might be configured to boot just a X server. I have not seen this but this is what Kishna suggests happens (I'm sure, time zones permitting, he'll be quick to confirm he is speaking from experience with Knoppix, not something else). In which case you do get a "thin" client that requires less memory and CPU, applications will run on your Knoppix server. I guess persistent store would be the server's. I don't know if you'd get a log in screen (under other Linux distributions yes).
In this arrangement, the Knoppix server and client will be running the X-11 protocol to communicate. The part of this that handles login to a desktop is the xdmcp (X display manager control protocol). You can also use this to log in to a Linux desktop from MS Windows provided you are running an X server under MS Windows. In the past I've used Xming, cygwin and Hummingbird to do this. It fine over a reliable LAN. You can even run these in 'multi-window' mode so you have one big desktop with Linux applications in some windows and Microsoft (et al) application in other windows.
With VNC the X server would actually run on the Knoppix server with a virtual desktop and another (the vnc) protocol is used to display the virtual screen in a window on the client (which could be a machine running Windows). The vnc protocol seems to give better performance than xdmcp even on a LAN. It can be used over a VPN with some, often acceptable, latency. Best of all, as Krishna describes, you can disconnect and reconnect. So you can take your desktop session home, as it were.Quote:
Originally Posted by GCMartin
If you've got several VNC sessions and several users, they need to know which session to connect to. I'd expect you would create a user account for each user on your Knoppix server but to prevent users reconnecting to the wrong session, they would probably each set a vncpasswd. I also think with vnc, your thin client would have no access to local resources so they won't be able to use samba to share local resources with the LAN. With Knoppix, I don't know if you get a login screen.
What is your reason for using Knoppix, a live distribution, this way instead of a server distribution such as Debian (or even Ubuntu) ?Quote:
Originally Posted by GCMartin
Three basic approaches to the sort of thing we're discussing:
1) Run an X server on the client end of the connection (in whatever OS you like), which does the service of drawing the screen image from a desktop session on the server (and handles the keyboard/mouse stuff.) This is very bandwidth intensive, in my experience, so probably limited to LAN connected systems to get good performance - but it works, even over a phone line. This in some cases (e.g. other Linux distros with multiple users) can allow multiple simultaneous desktop sessions - and it even works when there's only one set of hardware (of which the simplest form would be a single/normal desktop session.) I believe Knoppix is not very well suited to this except when it's all-in-one - it's a great distro, but it has limits that need to be respected.
2) Start Knoppix Terminal Server from the Preferences menu on the server end of the connection (or install LTSP on another distro if you like.) Boot your client via PXE (requires a LAN connection) and run as if you were at the server, with all it's resources, no matter what level of client system you have (e-bay thin clients are often <$50, or an old PC should work if it has PXE capability.) You should also be able to use local hardware, e.g. hard or flash drives, but I doubt Knoppix would handle "persistent storage" from there.
3) Start the "target" system (i.e. any Windows/Mac/Linux box), and install/run VNC server. If it's Knoppix, just go to the Internet menu and start X11VNC server. Now go to another system (again, most any flavor) which can connect to the server (firewalls to be pierced as required, if any), set up the connection, and take over the target system (you don't really need special client software, just a browser.) The target (server) system can even be made "headless", i.e. run without a monitor. I ran one that lived in the eighth-floor janitor's closet of a building with suitable wireless connections from my own office across town (that system had radio station software installed and eventually was moved downstairs to the studio once it was built.)
Hope that helps!
Krishna :mrgreen:
p.s. Someone on this board stated that he'd started Knoppix Terminal Server, didn't see any obvious result, and left it going without knowing what it really did. When one of his systems was being re-booted, it used PXE and found the Knoppix system and booted into it. BIG surprise! ;) - it was usually a Windows box, I believe.