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i hear and see everyone talking about linux/knoppix with a hint of it being "common sense" i am very eager to give it a try but, i have to be honest, it is a little overwhelming to me. is it pretty easy to learn in actuality or should i give up?....i.e. gnome/gnoppix....dual booting...partitioning....i have never messed with any of these things, but have a good knowledge of pc's hardware, software netbios and other basics...i appreciate any time you have to help me out
Nachral,
"common sense" - yikes! ( I sure hope you aren't talking about me. )
I am so new to this, I still am amazed at the Knoppix Boot Background Image in KDE :)
Well, I can say that I frequent this newsgroup, and The Lounge, a lot.
I would say that, IMHO, Knoppix/Linux/Unix/Debian is harder than MS Windows is to learn - but I think it is possible - that and I want to pick up the book that explains a lot of all of this: "Linux - say goodbye to the blue screen of death" - or something like that.
I think Knoppix is a fresh approach to the OS market, it has ideas, and has a wonderful backing of supporters and coding professionals. Not to mention the "open source" ability to add more than the other OS on the market, which I have always ran on my systems.
I have come from a long line of OS', starting with DOS 1.12, and now into the Win98SE GUI OS. I see Knoppix opening the way to a new way of doing things, and paving the course for years of using Debian instead of the MS counterpart.
I agree with you though Nachral, a lot of people frequent this newsgroup that have - what appears - years of investment in the usage of Linux, Unix, Debian, and Knoppix. I think these people help to increase users from being simply "newbies", into being able to function and proceed to higher status of knowledge about this OS. I hope to learn as much as I can from any assistance, and hope that this post has done something along those lines for you.
I walked into Windows with no fetal knowledge of Win3.1, Win95, and Win98 instilled into my brain from birth, it took years of reading, doing, and learning from others to get 20+ years of that knowledge, I can't expect to learn Knoppix, Unix, Linux, Debian overnight either, it is going to take time as well.
Hope this helps a little,
Cuddles
I think that Linux in and of itself is very much evolved from common sense. For example: In Linux you enter the command 'halt' to stop the machine. And in windows? You click 'start' to stop the machine! huh??? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by nachral
If you wanted to burn a cd in windows what would you do?
Start>Programs>Nero>Wizard>Datacd> then find your file, drag it over, and start. In Linux:
cdrecord Knoppix.iso
By the time you get Nero opened I'm already burning. :) (Fret not tho- there are GUI's for just about everything in Linux- cli is just faster).
Well if you're already considering giving up then maybe you are easily deterred? I kind of doubt it tho.Quote:
i am very eager to give it a try but, i have to be honest, it is a little overwhelming to me. is it pretty easy to learn in actuality or should i give up?...
Don't try to learn everything simutaneously. Did you learn everything you now know about pc's in one day? I realize that windows users are accustomed to things being point-and-click easy but that is exactly how you get spyware and what causes viruses to spread so rapidly. M$ users have been conned into thinking that all you do is turn it on and click start to turn it off. M$ is simple only on the surface. If you are a sysadmin or someone who has to fix windows constantly then I doubt that you will say that win is easy. I use M$ machines everyday and I also defrag the NTFS file system once or twice a week becasue it's a terrible filesystem that just drops file frags all over the place. I scan for viruses and spyware every other day and reinstall some thing weekly. That's not at all my idea of easy.Quote:
.i.e. gnome/gnoppix....dual booting...partitioning....i have never messed with any of these things, but have a good knowledge of pc's hardware, software netbios and other basics...i appreciate any time you have to help me out
You will only get out of Linux what you put into it but you won't regret it. Also you won't get anyone telling you what your OS will look like or what apps you can use or how often you can reinstall. Do you own a copy of XP? No you don't- no one does, not really. Sure you can install it on one box but just try to install it on another and see what they tell you.
With Linux you won't have to call some lousy tech support guy who's really more intersted in picking his nose than reading the same script he already read 2500 times today. (I know several of them). Do you feel ripped-off by Linux? I thnk the price is right and the OS is fabulous. Imagine if you had only spent all this time learning Linux instead of M$!
Here's a little something from my Linux router:
10:26pm up 229 days, 3:05, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
Ever had a windows machine up that long?
You have to reboot windows everytime you install or remove something. M$ even admits that the security patches don't always install properly but the scan will tell you that they did.
M$ moved their own M$update site to Linux servers because win servers are too vulnerable and easily hacked.
The FTC is recommending that everyone who uses M$ disable Messenger in Services becasue it is such a security threat but you can thank those geniuses in Redmond for that- it's enabled by default! Does your average pc user know how to disable Messenger? I doubt it. What does it tell you when the FTC is involved in telling home pc users how to run their machines?!?!?!
I can go on and on but I think you see my point. :) Just run the live cd and see how you like it. If you have room on your hdd then install it. Fire up Knoppix, run Xchat and come join us in #knoppix. I guarantee that we will assist you and it won't cost you a dime. We send files to people, we ssh into their machines and fix things, we write scripts to make installations of software easier. We spend our time here helping those who might want to try Linux but don't yet see any real reason to do so. All for free.
I promise- you will not regret it.
We have spent considerable time writing docs so that people just like you can benefit from our experience and mistakes. Realize that not all docs are written by advanced Linux users but anyone and everyone. In fact the wiki (our docs section) is open for anyone to write in- yes it's true, anyoone may contribute. That's what Linux is all about.
cuddles and rick (if i may be so bold),
let me just start by saying WOW!!! not to sound mushy but thank you for, not only replying to my post, but taking the time to reply with so much (almost like you guys want to help)....weird, not used to that... i have been seriously disappointed by some other forums ive tried....i think ive found my home :D ok im done with the group hug stuff, just know it is GREATLY appreciated. cuddles u are right and definitely put my mind a little bit at ease about it, with your years of experience, and "blazing a trail" for me into linux, i look forward to annoying the snott out of you and rick with my questions and problems for many posts to come :? 'cause rick you were right in assuming that im not gonna quit very easily, i am extremely eager to learn linux, and as you touched on, i am not anticipating getting it done in a weekend or anything crazy like that. but after i decided "yep , that's what i want to do" i figured i could research it a little find out the basics,, download linux, and start figuring it out. ...no such luck i probably have 5 solid hours searching and reading, and i dont even feel comfortable d-loading yet. i have no concept of partitioning, but would like to, assuming it's not like learning c++ or other languages, although knoppix i believe is my ticket, and as i understand it partitioning is not necessary? but i was looking into knoppix, when i realized this was over my head, and txt doc' werent gonna cut it, but i needed some actual voices, to help me get started. i am researching different distributions right now but could use some help there too, i definitely need to get something i can dual boot, for now at least, security is a pretty big concern for me, being as i am sooooooo freakin important, ok, i'm a nobody, and have come to terms with that, but i know what is out there
and like to know all my bases are covered, i play no video games but play a lot of music, i am using sb audigy II platinum ex sound card and nvidia geforce vid card, 512 ram, pentium 4, dell dimension 4550, i dont know what info is helpful, but any suggestions on a distribution would be appreciated, thanks again for helping and setting my mind at ease, somewhat, as i know it is not going to be a walk in the park, but if i can keep in touch with u guys im sure ill get through it. also rick you put the advantages of linux vs. the absurdity of m$ in a different light, that was interesting. all of the commands for linux, are those just memorized over time, or does someone in your shoes still keep a list of sorts at hand?.....not that it will discourage me if you say ten year, but, how long was it b4 you really said to yourself, "i am psyched i switched, why did i ever wait" and you felt comfortable using linux? cuddles ive been reading a bunch of your posts, and you may never know much in your own eyes, but it is apparent you've done a lot of work getting up to speed in linux, and i do believe, my friend, that you, along with rick, will be my "go to" guys, if i could be so lucky. well i cant stress enough my appreciation in your sincerity andloking forward to pestering both of you in the very near future. i am in college, and am finished with the semester on dec 18th, at which time i will be devoting countless hours to linux, to tell you the truth i am really excited, thank you again
nachral
was just re-reading my reply and came across the "dual boot"...obviously wont need that yet if i go with knoppix...but i kinda want to "jump into" what i will be using in the future. trying to avoid two learning curves...i.e knoppix to redhat, etc. or any others, unless you think that is my best bet, or if you tell me they are similar enough to "switch" from knoppix to another when the time comes
I installed Mandrake one weekend and removed win2k the next. I never looked back. Frankly I'm just so tired of all the nonsense surrounding M$.
Don't fret partitioning. Think of it like this: You have a disk. It is fairly large compared to the size you actually need for an OS. M$ just decides that you want to use the entire thing and that's why you never even noticed partitioning before. Sometimes (for the noob) Linux is too much because none of these decisions have been made for you but I digress. Look at partitioning like so:
1 ea. 20G drive. You only need a minimum of 3G for Knoppix so you partition. When you make a partition you simply cut the disc into sections- just like the old vinyl records. Each song took up a round section of the LP. Partitioning is EXACTLY like that. So you make a 4G part for Knoppix plus a swap partition. You have a 5G part for win and the rest of the disc? Well it can just sit there for the rest of your life if you like. You don't have to do anything with it. I have 2 ea. 40G drives. About 10M on each drive is just sitting there unpartitioned (and of course unformatted) waiting for the day when I really need. it. If I download something huge- maybe a couple of albums then I would go ahead and make a partition in that empty space, format it, mount it and copy files to it.
If you have a hdd that you can experiment on that would be the best. If you hose it up too badly you can always wriote zeroes to it and start from scratch. Personally I don't care for aprtition resizing apps- they're just a little to unreliable for my tastes but they do work often times. I certainly do not mean to say that they do not work.
Rule of thumb: make windows partitions with windows apps and Linux parts w/ Linux apps. I have written a howto for partitioning.
that really makes it managable to comprehend, so where do i "sign"?
what is my next step in actually getting knoppix on my box, and starting to remedy my new headaches?