How to boot Knoppix 4.0.2 from a floppy?

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02-23-2006, 08:56 PM
chip.ling

How to boot Knoppix 4.0.2 from a floppy?

I have a very old PC, I cannot go to the bios. (It's a Compaq DeskPro 2000, pentium 166). It has a floppy drive and a cd rom.

I also have a copy of Knoppix 4.0.2 on cd which I proved it is working on another PC. (that one can boot from the cd-rom).

Now, I try to run Knoppix from the old machine.

I read the FAQ, it says I can create 2 boot floppy disks by running mkbootfloppy.

So I boot up the Knoppix on the other PC and run the mkbootfloppy. The program starts but failed in the middle complaining about the floppy disk has problem. I know I try to format 1.44 M disk to 1.72 M. I tried all floppy I have on hand (not much, I only have 5 of them) Cannot make one work.

So I search the internet and find there is another solution. (the SBM).

I download the SBM and copy it to the floppy.

Put the SBM floppy and the Knoppix cd into the PC, turn on the machine.

After a while, the SBM screen appears. But I cannot find my CD rom from the list. Browse around the SBM application, and cannot find a way to boot from the cd-rom.

I have to confess here, I upgrade this PC cd-rom to a dvd-rom many years ago so I think the old machine does not see the dvd-rom. But if I boot the windows 95 from the harddisk, it can see the DVD rom.

The closest one I can find from the SBM application is that there is a screen asking me to put it two hex numbers for the cd-rom, but I don't know what numbers I should be enter here.

Any one can help? Or is there any other way beside the two I mentioned above?

Rgds,
Chip
02-23-2006, 09:11 PM
Harry Kuhman

Re: How to boot Knoppix 4.0.2 from a floppy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip.ling

I read the FAQ, it says I can create 2 boot floppy disks by running....

You read the wrong FAQ, That is old, out of date information. See answer #1, read the booting from floppy information there and you'll have much better results. Can you give me a link to the information that told you to make 2 floppies? Maybe I can fix it or at least include the information to the one floppy method that never needs new floppies and virtually always works.
02-23-2006, 09:31 PM
Harry Kuhman

By the way, I normally install XOSL to it's own tiny 2 meg partition on any system that is so old that it will not boot the CD. That way the computer will boot any bootable CD, as well as any and all OSs that I choose to install on that system (as well as booting from either floppy (A or B) or either CD or DVD drive, all without having to go back into the BIOS). Includes other nice stuff too like Ranish partition manager. Never a need to make or use a boot floppy again. Details in the FAQ referenced above.
02-23-2006, 09:37 PM
chip.ling

Harry, sorry for the false info. I must have look at the FAQ not in the knoppix.net. I think I did a search for "boot from floppy in Knoppix" so it brings me to some other FAQ.

Anyway, I re-visit the download FAQ here, they only mentioned SBM and XOSL. I tried the SBM with problem and XOSL must be run from harddisk so it seems to me a dead end here.

Is it possible I can boot from the floppy up to the point the cheat-code screen appears and then I re-direct the boot to the cd-rom?

Or is it possible if I can boot the Knoppix from DOS? I have a windows 95 boot disk and I can boot the PC to DOS. And after the boot, I can see the cd-rom too.

Rgds,
Chip
02-23-2006, 11:50 PM
Harry Kuhman

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip.ling

I tried the SBM with problem and XOSL must be run from harddisk so it seems to me a dead end here.

What was the problem with SBM? It seems to me very likely that it can be resolved.

Yes, XOLS needs to be installed on the hard disk. I always give it its own tiny (about 2 meg) partition, although it can be installed to the existing Windows partition. It used the SBM logic to boot the CD (and it's own code to do the rest of it's magic), so if SBM acn't be made to work then likely XOSL will not either, but I have yet to run across a system where either of them will not work.

Can't answer your other questions.
02-24-2006, 12:29 AM
ruymbeke

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip.ling

Harry, sorry for the false info. I must have look at the FAQ not in the knoppix.net. I think I did a search for "boot from floppy in Knoppix" so it brings me to some other FAQ.
Anyway, I re-visit the download FAQ here, they only mentioned SBM and XOSL. I tried the SBM with problem and XOSL must be run from harddisk so it seems to me a dead end here.
Is it possible I can boot from the floppy up to the point the cheat-code screen appears and then I re-direct the boot to the cd-rom?
Or is it possible if I can boot the Knoppix from DOS? I have a windows 95 boot disk and I can boot the PC to DOS. And after the boot, I can see the cd-rom too.
Rgds,
Chip

It Looks like to me that an other solution to your problem could be to make/modify and use a GRUB boot floppy disk.
There are two options to make this grub floppy disk:
a) use your DOS 95 boot floppy and copy grub.exe on it and update your config.sys to remove all devices
(grub.exe do not work with emm386.exe loaded)
b) install grub in the floppy (boot sectors of the floppy), cf grub man pages
(or from xp use http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grube.zip makeflo directory)
From there using the proper grub menu.lst config file, grub should be able to read
the linux kernel and boot ramdisk (linux & minirt_usb4.gz) from your disk drive
and from there boot knoppix from the cd drive or from the cd file image (iso file) stored on your hdd.
Link to grubh.zip (grub.exe and minirt_usb4.gz): http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...?p=98940#98940
Hope this helps,
Gilles
02-24-2006, 01:11 AM
UnderScore

I have booted a Compaq DeskPro 2000 pentium 166 with Knoppix 3.6. It was the original HW & original CDROM drive. I had to use many cheatcodes but it did work.
02-24-2006, 01:26 AM
Harry Kuhman

Re: How to boot Knoppix 4.0.2 from a floppy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip.ling

I have a very old PC, I cannot go to the bios. (It's a Compaq DeskPro 2000, pentium 166).

It is not clear to me what I cannot go to the bios means. Compaq used some strange keyboard combinations to get to the BIOS, not the standard DEL at boot time, but you should be able to find the proper code. The information should be on-line at the Compaq site. Of course. the BIOS might not even have a boot from CD option, but you'll have to get to it to know.
02-24-2006, 05:29 AM
|enouf|

it's likely F10 to enter the BIOS setup
-- (while the cursor goes to the right top of screen? )

Once in the BIOS, set CDROM as 1st Boot device (Boot Order) - set HDD 2nd
02-24-2006, 08:12 AM
chip.ling

Quote:

Originally Posted by |enouf|

it's likely F10 to enter the BIOS setup
-- (while the cursor goes to the right top of screen? )

Once in the BIOS, set CDROM as 1st Boot device (Boot Order) - set HDD 2nd

But my machine don't have F10 to enter the BIOS setup when I boot up.

Well, the harddisk crashed at one point and I just brought a new one and replacing the old one. So the hardware is not really original. I upgrade the cd rom to dvd rom too.
02-24-2006, 08:19 AM
chip.ling

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderScore

I have booted a Compaq DeskPro 2000 pentium 166 with Knoppix 3.6. It was the original HW & original CDROM drive. I had to use many cheatcodes but it did work.

I'm really curious why my machine lost the part that F10 can go to the BIOS settting.

I've tries any keys or any combination of key I can think of. Just cannot enter to the BIOS setup screen. (i.e. all function keys, alt+function key, ctrl+function key, ctrl+alt+function key, del, ctrl+alt+tab, ctrl+alt+esc )

Any key I can try?

UnderScore, since your machine can go into the BIOS setting, can you check to see if there is any program actually the F10 is running on the harddisk. Maybe a program under a hidden directory or on a separate harddisk partition.
02-24-2006, 08:30 AM
chip.ling

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman

What was the problem with SBM? It seems to me very likely that it can be resolved.

Yes, XOLS needs to be installed on the hard disk. I always give it its own tiny (about 2 meg) partition, although it can be installed to the existing Windows partition. It used the SBM logic to boot the CD (and it's own code to do the rest of it's magic), so if SBM acn't be made to work then likely XOSL will not either, but I have yet to run across a system where either of them will not work.

Can't answer your other questions.

It is a kind of strange result from the SBM. I use the SBM floppy to start the machine. The SBM is up and running giving me a Boot Menu, inside the menu, I have the choice of Quit to BIOS, Reboot, Floppy, Harddisk and Primary 1.

No sign of the cd-rom entry there. Then I try every single one entry, the harddisk will boot the windows 95, the Primary 1 will boot windows 95 in safe mode. Reboot and Floppy will cause the machine to somehow like reboot but then bring me back to the SBM screen. Quit to BIOS will boot the windows 95.
02-24-2006, 08:36 AM
chip.ling

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruymbeke

It Looks like to me that an other solution to your problem could be to make/modify and use a GRUB boot floppy disk.
There are two options to make this grub floppy disk:
a) use your DOS 95 boot floppy and copy grub.exe on it and update your config.sys to remove all devices
(grub.exe do not work with emm386.exe loaded)
b) install grub in the floppy (boot sectors of the floppy), cf grub man pages
(or from xp use http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grube.zip makeflo directory)
From there using the proper grub menu.lst config file, grub should be able to read
the linux kernel and boot ramdisk (linux & minirt_usb4.gz) from your disk drive
and from there boot knoppix from the cd drive or from the cd file image (iso file) stored on your hdd.
Link to grubh.zip (grub.exe and minirt_usb4.gz): http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...?p=98940#98940
Hope this helps,
Gilles

Looks like a possible solution here, I will try it.
02-24-2006, 09:38 AM
Harry Kuhman

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip.ling

It is a kind of strange result from the SBM. I use the SBM floppy to start the machine. The SBM is up and running giving me a Boot Menu, inside the menu, I have the choice of Quit to BIOS, Reboot, Floppy, Harddisk and Primary 1.

No sign of the cd-rom entry there.

Primary 1 should do a normal Win start; I think it's just a matter of not having done a full shutdown last time. The reboot sounds right, and the floppy sounds like it booted the floppy, where you still had SBM. As to not finding the cd, that's strange. Is it a CD on a nice normal IDE interface? If it's an interface that needs non-standard drivers then SBM isn't going to find it, but it's always found normal IDE CDs for me.
02-24-2006, 01:34 PM
|enouf|

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip.ling

But my machine don't have F10 to enter the BIOS setup when I boot up.

Wha????? :shock:

Is this a Laptop?? -- you do not have an F10 key ? ....or it just does not work ?
02-24-2006, 05:08 PM
chip.ling

Quote:

Originally Posted by |enouf|

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip.ling

But my machine don't have F10 to enter the BIOS setup when I boot up.

Wha????? :shock:

Is this a Laptop?? -- you do not have an F10 key ? ....or it just does not work ?

Sorry for my English. What I mean was during the boot up process, the Compaq screen comes up, but there is no sign of "Hit F10 to setup" prompt. I also tries all function keys including F10 but none of them bring me to the bios setting. Yes, my desktop do have 12 function keys.
02-24-2006, 05:17 PM
chip.ling

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman

Primary 1 should do a normal Win start; I think it's just a matter of not having done a full shutdown last time. The reboot sounds right, and the floppy sounds like it booted the floppy, where you still had SBM. As to not finding the cd, that's strange. Is it a CD on a nice normal IDE interface? If it's an interface that needs non-standard drivers then SBM isn't going to find it, but it's always found normal IDE CDs for me.

Yes, it is a normal IDE interface connect to a DVD drive.

I use the SBM floppy and tried on the other desktop. It did show me the cd-rom entry inside the menu. Looks like the SBM depends on the BIOS setting content to work. Just wonder if I can enter an entry in the SBM application.
02-24-2006, 07:02 PM
|enouf|

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip.ling

Quote:

Originally Posted by |enouf|

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip.ling

But my machine don't have F10 to enter the BIOS setup when I boot up.

Wha????? :shock:

Is this a Laptop?? -- you do not have an F10 key ? ....or it just does not work ?

Sorry for my English. What I mean was during the boot up process, the Compaq screen comes up, but there is no sign of "Hit F10 to setup" prompt. I also tries all function keys including F10 but none of them bring me to the bios setting. Yes, my desktop do have 12 function keys.

English ? No problem ....:)

you need to do this;
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...luujouyoyu.png

Full Maintenance Manual (PDF)
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bc/docs/su...333806-001.pdf

Source Page;
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport...&lang=en&cc=us

Your Desktop Pro 1000 Softpaq (last updated 11/1998 ?)
http://h18007.www1.hp.com/support/fi...te/3_1333.html
and any other tasks/Info can be found from clicking on links on the left at this URL
also maybe update the flash BIOS with a ROMpaq

1.6GB HDD eh? -- hey; I got win98 on a P-Pro 166 with a 1.2GB HDD :lol:
02-24-2006, 10:51 PM
chip.ling

Quote:

Originally Posted by |enouf|

you need to do this;
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...luujouyoyu.png

Full Maintenance Manual (PDF)
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bc/docs/su...333806-001.pdf

Source Page;
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport...&lang=en&cc=us

Your Desktop Pro 1000 Softpaq (last updated 11/1998 ?)
http://h18007.www1.hp.com/support/fi...te/3_1333.html
and any other tasks/Info can be found from clicking on links on the left at this URL
also maybe update the flash BIOS with a ROMpaq

1.6GB HDD eh? -- hey; I got win98 on a P-Pro 166 with a 1.2GB HDD :lol:

Thanks for the URL link. I eventually found my machine's Technical Reference Manual with other manuals from the site. My machine is Compad DeskPro 2000 Pentium 166MMX. One of the manual mentioned that I suppose to be able to go into the BIOS setting by hitting F10 during the POST stage. F10 is for the setup and F12 is the boot from the NIC.

But I do not see such F10/F12 notice when I boot my machine. Strange!
02-24-2006, 11:06 PM
Harry Kuhman

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip.ling

Looks like the SBM depends on the BIOS setting content to work.

I don't see how that could be, the most common use of SBM is to boot a CD when the BIOS doesn't know about CD booting. Of course the BIOS may have seen the CD device on the IDE interface, but why would it not do that for you if the drive has a normal IDE interface?
02-25-2006, 12:20 AM
chip.ling

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip.ling

Thanks for the URL link. I eventually found my machine's Technical Reference Manual with other manuals from the site. My machine is Compad DeskPro 2000 Pentium 166MMX. One of the manual mentioned that I suppose to be able to go into the BIOS setting by hitting F10 during the POST stage. F10 is for the setup and F12 is the boot from the NIC.

But I do not see such F10/F12 notice when I boot my machine. Strange!

I finally find out why the F10 is not showing up on my computer.

I read through the Compaq Technical Reference Guide for DeskPro 2000. A lot of information there but does not answer my question. (it is a very very good manual, even with asm call to the bios)

Then I switch to another one called Compaq Maintenance & Service Guide, and I find my answer there:
1. (The good news) Press F10 when on the boot up POST stage will bring up the config utility program.
2. (The bad news) The config utility program is not on the ROM, it is on a small separate harddisk partition called diagnostics partition.

So in my case, my old harddisk crashed and I replace it with a new one. That diagnostics partition and the utility program is not on the new harddisk and that's why the F10 prompt never show up.

I will go to the Compaq support site and see if I can download the diagnostics utility program and run it to set the BIOS. Wish me good luck man!
02-25-2006, 12:31 AM
chip.ling

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman

I don't see how that could be, the most common use of SBM is to boot a CD when the BIOS doesn't know about CD booting. Of course the BIOS may have seen the CD device on the IDE interface, but why would it not do that for you if the drive has a normal IDE interface?

Yes, you are right at the part that when the BIOS does not have a choice for boot from the cd-rom. The SBM does the job and tell the machine to boot from the cd-rom.

But what my observation is, the BIOS needs to identify the existence of the cd-rom first, then it tells SBM "I can see a cd-rom here but I cannot make it as a boot disk". And finally SBM takes control and boot from the cd-rom. But the key point here is the BIOS needs to feed the cd-rom information to SBM before SBM can take over.

Just remember that the machine (and the BIOS) is very old. I replace a DVD-ROM to the machine so the BIOS may not be able to recognize the DVD-ROM as a standard IDE device.
02-28-2006, 05:42 PM
chip.ling

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip.ling

I will go to the Compaq support site and see if I can download the diagnostics utility program and run it to set the BIOS. Wish me good luck man!

The attempt to run the Compaq diagnostics download program fails. I download the diagnostics utiltiy program from Compaq site and run it. It creates a bootable floppy disk.

When I run the floppy disk, my machine boots up no problem to MS-DOS and then it automatically kicks off the Compaq program.

Inside the application, I have three choices: 1. setup 2. view setup 3. configure partition.

I tried the first one, but got an error message saying it is not able to run the setup program and ask me for the setup disk. I already lost my setup disk so could not go further.

I tried the second one too but it hang my machine.

I did not try the third one cause I don't want to fool around my harddisk partition.

Looks like I need to go back to plan B and investigate the possibility to boot the Knoppix from DOS.
03-01-2006, 06:13 PM
chip.ling

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruymbeke

It Looks like to me that an other solution to your problem could be to make/modify and use a GRUB boot floppy disk.
There are two options to make this grub floppy disk:
a) use your DOS 95 boot floppy and copy grub.exe on it and update your config.sys to remove all devices
(grub.exe do not work with emm386.exe loaded)
b) install grub in the floppy (boot sectors of the floppy), cf grub man pages
(or from xp use http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/grube.zip makeflo directory)
From there using the proper grub menu.lst config file, grub should be able to read
the linux kernel and boot ramdisk (linux & minirt_usb4.gz) from your disk drive
and from there boot knoppix from the cd drive or from the cd file image (iso file) stored on your hdd.
Link to grubh.zip (grub.exe and minirt_usb4.gz): http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...?p=98940#98940
Hope this helps,
Gilles

I finally got a DOS 98 boot disk, delete all stuffs in the config.sys file except the cd-rom driver line, same to the autoexec.bat file. Then I boot from the floppy, I have the DOS up and running with cd-rom.

Then I copied the grub.exe and the menu.lst to the floppy.

I edited the menu.lst file as follow:
color black/cyan yellow/cyan
timeout=5
default=0

title Knoppix 4.0.2 from DOS hdc IOS scan ramdisk=32MB
kernel (hdc)/boot/isolinux/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=791 nomce quiet bootfrom=/cdrom/boot/isolinux/linux config=scan home=scan ramdisk=32768
initrd (hdc)/boot/isolinux/minirt.gz
boot

I save the menu.lst file and then run the grub.exe with the following line:

a:\grub.exe --config-file=(fd0)/menu.lst

Then I got an error message:

Error 24: Error while parsing number

Any idea what I did wrong?

Rgds,
Chip
03-01-2006, 08:32 PM
ruymbeke

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip.ling

I finally got a DOS 98 boot disk, delete all stuffs in the config.sys file except the cd-rom driver line, same to the autoexec.bat file.

Remove the cdrom dos drivers from both the config.sys and autoexec.bat.
Grub will use the bios system calls and do not need dos.
In fact, the dos cdrom driver hook may prevent grub to work properly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip.ling

Then I copied the grub.exe and the menu.lst to the floppy. I edited the menu.lst file as follow: ...
title Knoppix 4.0.2 from DOS hdc IOS scan ramdisk=32MB
kernel (hdc)/boot/isolinux/linux ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=791 nomce quiet bootfrom=/cdrom/boot/isolinux/linux config=scan home=scan ramdisk=32768
initrd (hdc)/boot/isolinux/minirt.gz
boot
...

First, I assume that your cdrom drive is connected as the primary device on your second IDE controller (hdc).
Then you should remove the "bootfrom" cheatcode from the kernel command line
since you are looking for a regular Knoppix boot from the CD.
(The Kernel and boot ramdisk are loaded by grub, then the kernel mount the cd and loads the rest of Knoppix)
If the kernel and boot ramdisk cannot be loaded by grub from the cdrom,
you can try to copy them somewhere on your hdd and modify the menu.lst accordingly.
If you copy these files on a ntfs partition you will need to use the minirt_usb4.gz which includes the ntfs kernel driver.
Hope this helps,
Gilles
03-07-2006, 12:41 AM
jjmac

Howdy,

Just on the SBM issue. I had a similar experiance on an older box that couldn't boot isolinux cdroms.

Sometimes SBM would list the drive in its' menu, other times it wouldn't.

Someone mentioned that at boot, sometimes, when the cdrom drive fires up initially, it dosen't stay alive long enough for a SBM floppy boot to see it.

So, while booting just key the drives button to open the tray door, then close it again.

The extra time spent active should allow SBM to reference it correctly, and then add it to your menu.

jm
03-14-2006, 09:24 AM
sungsam

loadlin
why nobody try this tool? boot Linux from a DOS prompt,

but myself still not success with Knoppix 4.0, other Linux like Redhat I've successed.
when I already copy the \boot\isolinux boot images files, linux and minirt.gz, to the DOS partition of D:\ and make a bat file per the loadlin manul, it can not boot, said "hlt, wrong compress format"

i don't know where went wrong, but I'm quite sure this is the right way for this question, hope can get more feedback from other user.

rgds
George
03-14-2006, 10:28 AM
jjmac

sungsam,

I think the point just relates to older bioses not having isolinux support. Makeing it hart to boot cdroms that use isolinux.

No idea why loadline isn't used . I don't know much about it my self.

If it has support to boot isolinux cdroms ... well, why not. I never thought it did though.

jm
03-14-2006, 10:55 AM
sungsam

jm

I though the topic is related, as the CD / DVD of Knoppix is easy to copy to hd under windows, if we can figure out how to use the loadlin well, then we will be easy to boot knoppix from DOS / floppy.

tks
03-15-2006, 12:31 AM
jjmac

Howdy sungsam,

Yes, i agree ... but as i have never used loadlin ???

You could try a few experiments but i suspect there may be some fundamental problems.

cdroms boot differently to hdds. And older bioses just lack support for the later isolinux styled cdrom boot process. My own bios is recent so it doesn't have any problems.

SBM is designed to provide that support for older systems. But as mentioned, i also found the cdrom item missing from the SBM menu at times in my old box.

It was traced to the drive firing up and then turning off to quickly at boot. The SBM program just wasn't quick enough to detect it.

Keying the drive to get the tray to open though fixed that :).

I think it would be a good idea to have a Windows/dos facility available. I suppose we could lobby MS to see if they wouldn't mind providing a means to boot Linux cdroms through their system. But i think i can guess on the answer to that :)

jm
03-16-2006, 03:32 AM
sungsam

summery of the topic after 1 weeks try and success at last

when Knoppix DVD was copy to HD, boot & run on HD, benifit and advantages:
1. faster,
2. easy to setup and modify, it would have a dual boot select menu like most boot loader do
3. safe, no need to touch the MBR of HD
4. convenient - now able to enjoy KNO anywhere with the laptop, not need to bring the extra disc - CD or floppy!!! this is the reason why I've spent lots of time in the search and try.

the tools and key points needed:
1. loadlin.exe, 1.6c verson. eventhough the v1.6 can boot redhat well, it could not work with Kno 4.02, it would said "incorrect compress format - err2" but with v1.6c it works well.

2. vfloppy, to boot to DOS prompt under win2K / XP without the need of actual floppy disc.

3. WinImage, to edit the disc image used in vfloppy.

4. in a normal win98 boot floppy image, lots of funs can find in editting the config.sys and autoexec.bat, to tailor the menu items you favourite the most.

5. the Knoppix.net gives lots of help in the debugging.
03-23-2006, 10:10 PM
chip.ling

Quote:

Originally Posted by sungsam

loadlin
why nobody try this tool? boot Linux from a DOS prompt,

but myself still not success with Knoppix 4.0, other Linux like Redhat I've successed.
when I already copy the \boot\isolinux boot images files, linux and minirt.gz, to the DOS partition of D:\ and make a bat file per the loadlin manul, it can not boot, said "hlt, wrong compress format"

I did tried loadlin too since I already have the windows 98 boot floppy disk to play around with.

Here's what I did:

1. Boot the windows 98 with cd-rom support from the floppy
2. DOS up and running with d: as the cd-rom
3. type in the command: a:\loadlin.exe d:\boot\ioslinux\linux root=/dev/hdc ro

The pc freeze when trying to decompress the linux kernel file. Looks like loadlin is looking for a specific compress format which is difference from the knoppix 4.0.2 one.

Anyway, I tried SBM, grub and loadlin and still cannot make anyone of them work.

The limitation on my case is that I don't want to touch the harddisk. I cannot make the BIOS boot from CD-ROM. So looks like boot from the floppy is my only choice now. But just cannot manage to have a successful one on knoppix 4.0.2.

I temporary switch to DSL live-cd which I can manage to boot from a floppy and then it uses the DSL cd after the boot. But I still want the knoppix instead since there is too many limitation on the DSL version.

Rgds,
Chip
03-27-2006, 07:59 AM
jjmac

Howdy chip.ling

>>
Anyway, I tried SBM, grub and loadlin and still cannot make anyone of them work.
>>

In what way did SBM fail you. No menu entry ???

As mentioned that can be caused due to the cdrom drive not being active long enough for SMB to properly detect it. I used to get that on my old box. The work around was to actually key the button that opens the tray door at boot. Just so it would fire up for a longer period. Allowing SBM to detect it and add a menu entry for it.

jm
03-27-2006, 11:33 PM
chip.ling

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjmac

In what way did SBM fail you. No menu entry ???

As mentioned that can be caused due to the cdrom drive not being active long enough for SMB to properly detect it. I used to get that on my old box. The work around was to actually key the button that opens the tray door at boot. Just so it would fire up for a longer period. Allowing SBM to detect it and add a menu entry for it.

Jim, No, there's menu coming up but within the menu, I cannot find the cd-rom. It has the floppy and the multiply entries for the harddisk. I tried every single one of them. It points to the harddisk only. Not the cd-rom.

I also did what you have suggested by keep on pressing the open door key on the cd-rom when booting the SBM. It ends up with the same old entries as before. No cd-rom. Frustrating.

Rgds,
chip
03-28-2006, 01:37 AM
Harry Kuhman

Chip, reread jjmac's post. He was suggesting that you were missing the CD menu entry, not the entire SBM menu, and offering you a fix that worked for him.
03-29-2006, 05:43 AM
chip.ling

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman

Chip, reread jjmac's post. He was suggesting that you were missing the CD menu entry, not the entire SBM menu, and offering you a fix that worked for him.

Oop, you got me this time. But I did what jjim suggested to press the cd-rom key to open it up at boot time. But the cd-rom entry still not able to appear in SBM.

I just think of an idea, since I cannot go into the BIOS setup screen, but the BIOS setup still suppose to keep my old setting. That is with the original cd-rom. (I change it to a DVD-ROM for reading DVD disk) I still have the original CD-ROM on my next desktop. If I replace the dvd-rom with it's original cd-rom drive, then the SBM might be able to detect it back. I'll do it tonight and let you guys know the result.

Rgds,
Chip
03-30-2006, 03:18 AM
chip.ling

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip.ling

I just think of an idea, since I cannot go into the BIOS setup screen, but the BIOS setup still suppose to keep my old setting. That is with the original cd-rom. (I change it to a DVD-ROM for reading DVD disk) I still have the original CD-ROM on my next desktop. If I replace the dvd-rom with it's original cd-rom drive, then the SBM might be able to detect it back. I'll do it tonight and let you guys know the result.

Good news, after I swap back the original cd-rom drive back to the Compad machine. It can directly boot from the cd.

Rgds,
Chip
04-10-2006, 12:24 PM
jjmac

Howdy chip.ling,

So ... you got it working (grin)

hmmmmm, i'm wondering on what just actually happened there. If i'm reading it all correctly it sounds like you had updated your cdrom drive to a dvd reader/writer. And i would guess it is a later model. And by then back-grading to the original cdrom drive you had success with SBM ...

You also mention that you couldn't access the bios on that laptop !

I can't help but wonder whether the bios had some sought of reference to the original cdrom drive that was persistent when you installed the dvd drive. Effectively hidding it from SBM, or just that the identification strings on the dvd drive just weren't recognised by SBM due to it being a mew drive.

It becomes one of the great paradoxes with things like this ... it seems the really interesting questions just can't really be answered with any real reliability.

Glad to here it's fixed though :)

jm
Humpty Dumpty Was Pushed !
06-20-2006, 08:40 AM
RedNeckWilly

Re: How to boot Knoppix 4.0.2 from a floppy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip.ling

I read the FAQ, it says I can create 2 boot floppy disks by running....

You read the wrong FAQ, That is old, out of date information. See answer #1, read the booting from floppy information there and you'll have much better results. Can you give me a link to the information that told you to make 2 floppies? Maybe I can fix it or at least include the information to the one floppy method that never needs new floppies and virtually always works.

On or about June 12, 2006 I successfully downloaded the Knoppix v5.0.1 CD image via BitTorrent from Knopper.net's recommended site http://torrent.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/. The download included the following five files:

KNOPPIX_V5.0.1CD-2006-06-01-EN.iso
KNOPPIX_V5.0.1CD-2006-06-01-EN.iso.md5
KNOPPIX_V5.0.1CD-2006-06-01-EN.iso.md5.asc
KNOPPIX-CHANGELOG.txt
knoppix-cheatcodes.txt

The last file (knoppix-cheatcodes.txt) contains the (outdated?) information regarding "two floppies." The fourth paragraph from the bottom states:

"If your BIOS does not support "no emulation boot" from CD, you can create
two bootable floppy disks by issuing (from Knoppix running on a different
machine) the command "mkbootfloppy", which will create a bootable
Kernel-disk plus a disk containing the initial ramdisk, which will be
prompted for at boottime."

I've read and re-read "Answer #1" and have been digging through these forums and Google regarding the no-boot from CD issue. The above source is one of at least three places I've seen the "two-floppy" answer. I have mixed feelings about the knoppix-cheatcodes.txt file (for version 4.0) being included in the recommended BitTorrent download of v5.0.1. Perhaps including a more pointed "No-boot from CD" text file would be helpful. I know this process takes time and a lot of effort. (I haven't checked to see if the knoppix-cheatcodes.txt file has been replaced by a newer one within the past week.)

I'm only posting this info here to (help?) answer your question about the (outdated?) info regarding the two floppies; it's apparently a common point of frustration.

Thanks for the good work :-)
06-20-2006, 08:54 AM
RedNeckWilly

Re: How to boot Knoppix 4.0.2 from a floppy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip.ling

I read the FAQ, it says I can create 2 boot floppy disks by running....

You read the wrong FAQ, That is old, out of date information. See answer #1, read the booting from floppy information there and you'll have much better results. Can you give me a link to the information that told you to make 2 floppies? Maybe I can fix it or at least include the information to the one floppy method that never needs new floppies and virtually always works.

Sorry for the double post . . . but it's related . . .

About halfway down the page at http://www.knopper.net/knoppix-info/index-en.html it states:

"How is KNOPPIX started?

To start the CD, set up the BIOS of your computer to boot off the CD, put the CD in the drive, and power up the computer. If your computer doesn't support this option, you have to use a boot disk. You can create this disk from the image in KNOPPIX/boot.img on the CD."

Does this still hold true for version 5.0.1? After re-reading "Answer #1" and Googling, I still can't figure out how to make this work.

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