Lost XP Parition on Resize in Knoppix 4.0.2: What happened?

This problem has nothing to do with NTFS. Ajwreinhardt incorrectly deleted the partition with qtparted instead of resizing and failed to recreat it at the same sector. The latter is required if one wants his data to appear intact again. However I don't know how qtparted works but if it also formated the partition then ajwreinhardt destoryed not only his partition table but also his NTFS filesystem as well due to his own faults by not following the FAQ instructions.

If Qtparted didn't format the partiton then the TestDisk utility should find the still healthy NTFS and hopefully recovery the partition table so it will be visible again. I've resized well over a hundred NTFS partitions in the last three years and never lost any data.

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Originally Posted by Irgu

I've resized well over a hundred NTFS partitions in the last three years and never lost any data.

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Good for you. There are many beginners or inexperienced users that have not been able to do so and have lost data. It is usually self inflicted and caused by using a tool that they do not know how to use. If you read the thread and get the gist of my message, that is what has been said. NTFS partitions are something I simply do not recommend an inexperienced user to use Linux ANYTHING on. That is, unless it is mounted read-only. Writing to an NTFS partition is risky, and using unfamiliar tools with little documentation supplied, can cause trouble for someone with limited experience. They are encouraged by some people that recommend them to do it using Linux tools and provide a little direction. Just enough direction for them to really do some damage. Doing so does a disservice to the person you might be advising. It would be much better to recommend a less risky way to go about it, even if it means purchasing a commercial program to do the procedure. If you were talking about working on a Linux based partition, it might be a different story. With Windows, there are other options besides Linux. The back up is the most important part of the operation and often never discussed. I have a few more than your three years experience formatting and modifying drives, partitions, etc. I have seen failures that should have been a success, had the right tools been used in the first place, rather than something that "Should" work. That includes the use of Linux based tools to modify partitions that are not of Linux origins.

Use Linux to read the data for salvage or backup as best you can. Beyond that "Here be there monsters!"

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Originally Posted by ckamin

There are many beginners or inexperienced users that have not been able to do so and have lost data.

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It's impossible to lose data today during repartitioning unless the user directly instructs the program to destroy his own data. One uses either a filesystem resizer+fdisk OR a GUI partitioner to resize the partition (gparted, qtparted, etc). Here are the mistakes ajwreinhardt did:

1) He used the combination of the two methods which itself wouldn't be a problem but he also did it incorrectly.
2) He used ntfsresize without fdisk. This never results data corruption. His data was still fine, accessible, the filesystem having the new size but not the partition.
3) He DELETED then CREATED a new partition instead of RESIZING the existing one with qtparted. This step is completely filesystem independent, he would have destroyed ext3, reiserfs, fat32, anything. This is not how one should non-destructively repartition with qtparted.

In short, your NTFS rant is totally irrelevant here and that's not how one should educate people because you're actually misleading them badly.

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Originally Posted by ckamin

Writing to an NTFS partition is risky,

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This is again incorrect and proves you're quite out of picture on NTFS support on Linux. There are many NTFS drivers for Linux with different functionality and reliability. Some safe, some crap. I also encourage you to RTFM, as others already did. You need it.

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Originally Posted by ckamin

and using unfamiliar tools with little documentation supplied, can cause trouble for someone with limited experience.

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http://man.linux-ntfs.org/ntfsresize.8.html
http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html

90 kB documentation with step by step instructions, moreover both suggest using one of the Partition Magic Linux clones if the user is uncertain how to do the low level resizing.

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Originally Posted by ckamin

They are encouraged by some people that recommend them to do it using Linux tools and provide a little direction.

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I fail to see how GParted would be more difficult to use than Partition Magic. But surely, user should RESIZE the partition, not FORMAT, like in this case, if he wants to resize it. Qtparted just did what it was told, it destroyed the partition.

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Originally Posted by ckamin

I have a few more than your three years experience formatting and modifying drives, partitions, etc.

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I nowhere wrote I have three years of partitioning experience. I have over twenty. What I wrote was that that I'm using ntfsresize (based Linux partitioners) for over three years without trouble.

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Originally Posted by ckamin

I have seen failures that should have been a success, had the right tools been used in the first place, rather than something that "Should" work. That includes the use of Linux based tools to modify partitions that are not of Linux origins.

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All problems I've seen here over the last three years were due to partition table corruptions, independently of the filesystems, which were cause by broken Parted, or user error. Like this one, where user reformatted instead of resized his partition. But clueless people indeed sometimes blamed Microsoft instead of explaining newbies how to do repartitioning correctly.

Anyway, please feel free to demonstrate how you can destory NTFS on Linux with the safe Linux NTFS tools. You don't even need Windows to do so, you can use mkntfs or ntfsclone to create/transfer an NTFS image to your Linux then loopback mount it or try to trash with ntfsresize. You will fail to do so, I'm sure. Non-sense talk is cheap, that's what you showed so far.

Irgu:

And precisely, What is your point?

You failed to recognize the issues for what they are. I have many years in the industry as well as many years in education, technical training, technical manual development, and curriculum development. There are many basic rules that are ignored by your statements. I have referenced tools and procedures for a beginning/inexperienced Linux user. Number one, you are asking someone to use an unfamiliar environment (Linux) to perform potentially damaging tasks. Then to compound the folly, you are directing that same person to use an unfamiliar tool, within that environment. Further compounding the issue is the fact that documentation may be limited by the lack of it, the user not knowing how/where to access it, or the fact that much of it originated in another language and has been poorly translated or not translated at all. Also many times the effective documentation for some of these tools resides buried in some separate source or forum. Loading the deck in such a negative manner almost guarantees failure of the procedure. If a solution is presented that works within a familiar environment (in this case Windows) and has included documentation in the language of the user. It will have a much better chance of success. In the case of a commercially distributed solution, there is usually some access to technical support at a higher level than the open source solutions you have offered. That fact alone may make the commercial solution the better choice. That was the first issue.

Second issue. Linux simply is not 100% reliable for writing to an NTFS partition. You may present whatever links that claim to the contrary and you may have had success with it personally. I am presented with a failed drive on an almost daily basis. Over twenty percent were corrupted by someone writing to the NTFS partition with Linux. These failures generate incident reports and are comfirmed by IT. They have done the forensics. It is now against policy to use ANY live/alternate OS in our machines for that reason. We have many students that decide to try bypassing management's controls by using Live Linux disks. This has also resulted in waves of drive corruptions being presented for remedy after someone decided to write to the disk with something other than Windows. Less than 2% of our incidents are related to Windows corrupting the drives. Do the math and decide which has a better chance for success in writing to an NTFS partition. Windows or Linux? We did our homework and have developed the metrics in these situations.

We spend countless thousands of dollars producing Technical Manuals and Documentation in standardized formats and will transform documentation into standard formats if supplied by outside vendors. It is done simply to enable a technician to find the information they need in a familiar format. We use standardized diagnostics procedures and have done so for decades. There is a reason for it and it relates directly to the first issue I described. It presents a higher percentage of success.

Now I don't think I claimed it was an error in the tools the original poster used, but rather a self inflicted disaster that came about for the reasons I described in the first issue above. Him being UNFAMILIAR with the OS AND the TOOLS he attempted to use. If you have experience with an environment and the tools you are using, it is a moot point. You have a greater chance of success for those reasons alone, since you don't need the hand-holding that an inexperienced user might require.

Your statements.....

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Originally Posted by Irgu

It's impossible to lose data today during repartitioning unless the user directly instructs the program to destroy his own data. One uses either a filesystem resizer+fdisk OR a GUI partitioner to resize the partition (gparted, qtparted, etc). Here are the mistakes ajwreinhardt did:

1) He used the combination of the two methods which itself wouldn't be a problem but he also did it incorrectly.
2) He used ntfsresize without fdisk. This never results data corruption. His data was still fine, accessible, the filesystem having the new size but not the partition.
3) He DELETED then CREATED a new partition instead of RESIZING the existing one with qtparted. This step is completely filesystem independent, he would have destroyed ext3, reiserfs, fat32, anything. This is not how one should non-destructively repartition with qtparted.

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....have actually made my point. An inexperienced user is prone to making mistakes that will sometmes have disastrous results.

I'm sorry that you are obviously upset that someone disagrees with your point of view. Linux is NOT a cure for the common cold. Nowhere in my posts did I bash Linux or the tools described. My reference is to inexperienced users being directed to use unfamiliar tools within an unfamiliar environment, by people who just don't care to look outside the box. If you are narrow minded and determined enough, you might even get Linux to brew your cup of tea or coffee. I'd rather use something intended to do so in the first place. Continuing to direct and expect inexperienced users to use the same tools with the same proficiency as an experienced user, without some VERY detailed instruction, does them a disservice. Unfortunately, all you need to do to give advice in most forums, is register. They will then allow someone to misdirect people using the medium of a "Post" to do so. If I were to "err" in giving advice, I would certainly prefer to "err" on the side of caution.

My first piece of advice would be to back up important data. The second is to be careful who you listen to and do your research BEFORE doing any procedure. The third is to keep it simple and use what you are most familiar with. If that is Windows, why not use it?

Your rudeness has been noted. Not only have I Read TFM, in some cases I wrote, or helped to write it.