DHCP ok but...

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06-10-2003, 02:12 AM
garyng

Why blame XP ? It could be as simple as that XP is better polished than linux(may be some experts can make linux work better but not necessary linux at its 'default' form).

I dual boot frequently between XP and linux(debian woody) and found that browsing the net under XP is in general faster and less problematic than under linux. I use Mozilla under both system(same version). I also experienced these timeout, or blank pages from time to time. Not a show stopper, usually just refreshing a few times would be fine. The configuration I used is orinoco silver on the notebook, through orinoco router/gateway through cable modem.
06-10-2003, 05:27 AM
aay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman

No, since he can get to some addresses I don't think he is either. But he is saying that the problem can't be XP since he can connect through an XP connection sharing system with another XP system. That's just not a valid test.

I agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman

He needs to bypass the XP connection sharing system if he wants to get any valid information.

Agreed, or at least rule out the other issues I mentioned above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman

There are switches and hubs sold that will not connect to a DSL provider directly, so it's important to spell out what he should get rather than just saying a switch.

Actually from what he mentioned above it sounds like he is trying to set this up at work where he is already behine a router. Assuming that this is the case and the router has NAT and can assign addresses via DHCP, a switch would work fine and would be a lot less expensive. Again he would need to verify this is indeed how his network is setup. Otherwise, you are correct.
06-10-2003, 05:37 AM
Harry Kuhman

Quote:

Originally Posted by aay

Actually from what he mentioned above it sounds like he is trying to set this up at work where he is already behine a router. Assuming that this is the case and the router has NAT and can assign addresses via DHCP, a switch would work fine and would be a lot less expensive. Again he would need to verify this is indeed how his network is setup. Otherwise, you are correct.

I didn't understand that from what was said, but you certainly could be right. Absoultely, if he's already behind a NAT device use a switch and not a DSL router. But, seeing how low the prices of DSL routers has fallen, it might actually be cheaper to buy one that can be put in router only mode and use that instead of buying a simple switch! But if he is behind a NAT device then the most simple test is just to unplug the connection sharing XP system and plug into the Knoppix system directly and boot; he will know if the issue is XP or not in less time than it has taken either of us to write this.
06-10-2003, 05:42 AM
aay

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyng

Why blame XP ?

If you read Harry's detailed posts about how windows updates have adversely changed his nic card's eeprom settings you'll see why blaming MS is far from unreasonable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyng

I dual boot frequently between XP and linux(debian woody) and found that browsing the net under XP is in general faster and less problematic than under linux. I use Mozilla under both system(same version). I also experienced these timeout, or blank pages from time to time. Not a show stopper, usually just refreshing a few times would be fine. The configuration I used is orinoco silver on the notebook, through orinoco router/gateway through cable modem.

Hmm. I've installed linux lots of times and can't say I've ever found this to be true. Actually I'm posting this from a laptop that's using an Orinoco card and it's always worked flawlessly. On my machine at work the wireless D-link card gave me hell under windows, but worked fine in linux. Sure there may be cases where linux isn't performing optimally , but on the whole I've had much less problems than with Windows.
06-10-2003, 10:37 AM
tyiooo

Quote:

If you are still going through an XP machine with the connection sharing then XP can still have something to do with it. (Stephen)

Yes you're right and I read the thread about Harry's problem, I didn't know M$ would go that far (changing devices' eeprom!!!). But I had no problems connecting this way with Mandrake 9.0 through M$ ICS so I wonder if in my case, XP is to blame [XP is to blame anyway for being XP :D ]

Quote:

Also, try pinging both ip addresses and domain names. If you can hit the ip addresses without any problem but are having problems with the domain names then this should tell you for sure that you a DNS problem. (aay)

I tried to ping both ip addresses and domain names, everything is fine.

Quote:

M$ is doing all they can to hurt Linux, and making sure that another XP box will do connection sharing while other systems (Linux) don't is not a trick I would put past them. He needs to bypass the XP connection sharing system if he wants to get any valid information.
(Harry)

I tried to configure the XP box manually but the attempt failed. And by the way, where do I set the broadcast address in XP?

Quote:

tyiooo, I would make sure that you are using the same subnet mask as in knoppix as in windows (aay)

Yes it's the same subnet mask in both OS.

I'm not at work behind a router. A router is pretty expensive and my problem is that the DSL modem is USB, I don't know any solution to use a router with a usb modem since the box which it is connected to needs to be turned on anyway..(Am I right?)
I'm connected at home to the XP box through a simple ethernet cable between two NIC cards.

Do you have any recommendation to configure manually the network between XP and knoppix?
Since I can't afford a new DSL modem and a router, this is my last chance to get knoppix connected.

Thanks a lot for your help! I look forward to read you

Tyiooo
06-10-2003, 04:51 PM
garyng

Quote:

Originally Posted by aay

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyng

Why blame XP ?

If you read Harry's detailed posts about how windows updates have adversely changed his nic card's eeprom settings you'll see why blaming MS is far from unreasonable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyng

I dual boot frequently between XP and linux(debian woody) and found that browsing the net under XP is in general faster and less problematic than under linux. I use Mozilla under both system(same version). I also experienced these timeout, or blank pages from time to time. Not a show stopper, usually just refreshing a few times would be fine. The configuration I used is orinoco silver on the notebook, through orinoco router/gateway through cable modem.

Hmm. I've installed linux lots of times and can't say I've ever found this to be true. Actually I'm posting this from a laptop that's using an Orinoco card and it's always worked flawlessly. On my machine at work the wireless D-link card gave me hell under windows, but worked fine in linux. Sure there may be cases where linux isn't performing optimally , but on the whole I've had much less problems than with Windows.

Window you mean 98/ME or XP ? They are different beasts. 98/ME is very crappy. I have 3 OS(well actually 10 is more like it if each variation of linux is counted as one), ME/XP/Linux. The ME is there only when I wanted to build CD(still haven't worked out the cdrecord stuff for my old HP burner) and it is so buggy, not usable and I have 320M ram on my system. XP is completely different. It is a very robust OS(well my experience anyway). I seldom need to reboot, just hibernate to disk and resume, for weeks. That is before I installed linux :wink:

After two months of tweaking, I can more or less put my woody and XP on equal footing though overall, I still think XP is better for people who don't want to tweak stuff, in terms of usability and stability.
06-10-2003, 07:21 PM
Harry Kuhman

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyng

Window you mean 98/ME or XP ? They are different beasts. 98/ME is very crappy. ...

The problem I saw was with XP. Knoppix booted from the CD ran fine and accessed the Internet without problems on a new HP notebook I bought. I would not have had XP, but there was no way to buy the notebook without paying the Microsoft tax. After a few weeks of running XP and Knoppix I finally let XP install the "security updates" it wanted to install. Immidately after doing so I found that I could no longer connect to the network with Knoppix, even though I was booting from the same CD image that previously worked on the hardware. I don't have what I consider absolute proof that it was XP that did this, but I have so far learned that my internal NIC configuration eeprom is now configured in a way that simply makes no sense. Knoppix trusts the configuration information and so the NIC comes up not working. For some reason Windows knows not to trust the eeprom configuration and still works. What earthly reason could there be to not trust the eeprom default configuration unless you knew it was being changed to be non-functional? Strong statements by Microsoft about the need to beat Linux and a history of things in their software from Java and browsers all the way back to deliberate DR-DOS incompatabilities, make it reasonable to conclude that this is not a haphazard accident. Once I posted here about it, several others are confirming that they have seen the same thing; in at least one case it seems to have been from a Win98 security update.

If the evil empire will actually destroy a user's hardware so that it will no longer run Linux, would you put it past them to also have code in connection sharing to be sure they only shared the connection with systems they liked?

Too bad about the USB modem, but that is exactly why I and several of my friends fought with our ISP to be sure we got external DSL modems when we signed up and avoided both the USB modem and the internal DSL modem. Tip for any future subscribers: Tell your ISP you are still using WIN95 (no USB support) and that while you have a built in ethernet connection, you have no available interupts for another card. This seems to be the winning combination to get an external modem, and is a much better argument to make than telling them you simply don't want an internal DSL modem or a USB DSL modem because you know how bad they work, or because you have every intention of adding a DSL sharing device like the Linksys, which needs an Ethernet based connection to the DSL modem. One thing you might want to try is asking amoung your friends to see if anyone has switched from DSL to cable. I know several people who have, so I could easily put my hands on a couple of unused external ethernet based DSL modems if I had a need for them. You may find that you could too if you ask around.

And does anyone know if the USB DSL modem is supported in Linux? I would think that there would be support by now, but simply have not had to find out and so don't know. At least we finally know what the configuration is; it's a shame that this information wasn't provided up front - it would have saved a lot of time.
06-10-2003, 08:56 PM
aay

[quote Tyiooo]I tried to ping both ip addresses and domain names, everything is fine.[/quote]

I'm not sure what you mean here. Were you able to ping both ipaddresses and domain names? If so I can't see what's wrong.
06-10-2003, 09:51 PM
Harry Kuhman

Quote:

Originally Posted by aay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyiooo

I tried to ping both ip addresses and domain names, everything is fine.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Were you able to ping both ipaddresses and domain names? If so I can't see what's wrong.

Go back to what was first reported:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyiooo

My problem is weird : I got DHCP running ok, I can get connected to certain websites only, most of the web adress typed in the browser do not display anything (time out) although others load fast... I'm sure it's a knoppix problem.

So some connections work, others don't. tyioo is going through an XP conection sharing system and sees this, while others who use Knoppix but don't go through the XP connection sharing don't see the problem. We finally were told about the UBS DSL modem, but I don't know if Linux or Knoppix can use a USB modem or not. We are told that most sites time out while some he can connect to ok, but we have no other information. I'm rather confident in saying it's the XP connection sharing, after all his ethernet connection seems to be working just fine. It would be nice to see more data, what sites fail and what sites work; ping timing and traceroute timing to the failing and working sites and the like, but mostly I believe it's a matter of getting an ethernet based DSL modem or taking the computer to someone's location where they do have an ethernet based DSL or cable connection and see if the computer still shows the same problem or if I'm sure it's a knoppix problem can be ruled out with a simple test.
06-11-2003, 09:28 AM
tyiooo

Quote:

And does anyone know if the USB DSL modem is supported in Linux? I would think that there would be support by now, but simply have not had to find out and so don't know. At least we finally know what the configuration is; it's a shame that this information wasn't provided up front - it would have saved a lot of time. (Harry Kuhman)

Sorry to have provided this information later (usb modem) but I first tought that it had nothing to do with the type of modem I would like to share since all I want is to share a connection without buying any new stuff (switches, routers, servers, mainframes :)))
Yes this modem works well with linux (I tried with mandrake with a beta driver) but the problem is that the modem has to stay on the XP box (and the XP box user wouldn't let me touch it).

Quote:

I'm rather confident in saying it's the XP connection sharing, after all his ethernet connection seems to be working just fine. It would be nice to see more data, what sites fail and what sites work; ping timing and traceroute timing to the failing and working sites and the like, but mostly I believe it's a matter of getting an ethernet based DSL modem or taking the computer to someone's location where they do have an ethernet based DSL or cable connection and see if the computer still shows the same problem or if I'm sure it's a knoppix problem can be ruled out with a simple test.(Harry Kuhman)

Yes I've already changed my mind and said "Yes you're right" in a previous post, XP ICS is probably the one to blame, when I said "I'm sure it's a knoppix problem" I didn't mean to hurt you, the meaning was "maybe I didn't configure my knoppix netcardconfig well" but english is not my language so I have some difficulties to express myself in this forum, sorry about that.
So here's some more data :
www.cnn.com
www.lesoir.be
www.wanadoo.be ARE OK (these are the few exceptions)
I can't get access to :
www.wired.com
www.slashdot.org
www.knoppix.net ;)
www.distrowatch.com

Quote:

Quote:

I tried to ping both ip addresses and domain names, everything is fine.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Were you able to ping both ipaddresses and domain names? If so I can't see what's wrong.

Sorry again I'm a real newbie. What I've tried in the console is :
ping [my DNS]
ping [my IP]
and it succeeded to send or receive packets. I don't know how to ping timing and traceroute timing the failing and working sites.

I can change the XP box network configuration freely so what I'm trying now is to skip the automatic internet connection sharing and try to set each network setting manually from XP.

Thank you once more for helping a newbie. Even if I get into troubles sometimes I read somewhere here that computers are FUN and thanks to you guys I already learned a lot in a few days.

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