File system (images) on Knoppix flash media, traditional vs. experimental installer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ttopp
...
My PC can boot from a 256MB Lexar with an install of Spin-write.
...
We saw Ubutu's (Orange Interface) and the 8GB SanDisk w/ Overlay.
So Your PC can boot from USB flash storage media.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ttopp
Question: Does the 8GB allow for saving of settings?
Yes. The "traditonal" Knoppix flash installer can create an overlay file system directly on bootable flash media (not just in RAM, as most LiveCD systems do). It then continously saves all file system changes in this overlay file system.
All those changes can therefore survive reboots, that's why such an overlay file system is called persistent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ttopp
Also, we saw the 16GB SanDisk w an 11GB Reiser Partition. (We re-formatted and are using this stick to experiment with - In WinXP Pro version 2002 with SP3 on an AMD Athlon
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:confused: ... but (as i understand it) this PC is not the PC You are still having boot Problems with - Is that correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ttopp
*We're using 'xbootvs1.0beta14.exe' (a program that will build a multi-boot stick). I'm trying multi installs on one stick. To date, the completed stick tests OK with 'qemu-0.8.1-windows' - But when it is re-booted, the USB gives 'Boot Error'. The stick also gives a Boot Error on oter PCs. This is All OK. I can slow down, read the docs and do it step by step.
:confused: That all sounds interesting (and might make for interesting threads in this forum), but the topic
of this thread is the experimental flash installer. Please try to stick to that (Small diversions are not bad as such, but they seem to be accumlate in this thread, thus reducing its value for other readers.).
I am guessing here: You could boot Knoppix inside a virtual guest PC provided by a Qemu hosted by Windows on your PC? Please note: Virtual Machines/Emulators/Hypervisors provide their own firmware/"ROM" BIOS for guests operating systems; If You can boot Knoppix as a guest in a VM, that does not tell us much about your "real" (VM host) PC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ttopp
...(lots of comments about experimentation not directly related to experimental flash installer removed)...
However, I still cannot boot these USB sticks on my PC ( All 3 sticks work 'Great' on other PCs ).
:confused: Can You boot on Your PC from a flash medium written by the "traditional" Knoppix flash installer?
But not from a flash medium written by the experimental installer, which is bootable on other PCs?
If that is the case, then Your PC firmware/BIOS might dislike flash media with multiple partitions.
(Relating to my comment that the experimental Knoppix installer only has real benefit if used with storage media with capacity above 8 GB...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ttopp
What does this mean? I'm thinking the overlay and/or Reiser partition is an area to compress-decompress the USB/DVD programs as well as save settings and any file downloads?
The "traditional" flash installer creates the persistent overlay partition as a partition image file hosted inside the single FAT32 partition encompassing the whole flash storage medium. FAT32 file systems allow a maximum file size of 4 GiB. To have more space (to allow for more persistent changes), a larger overlay file system is needed.
The experimental flash installer does overcome this limit of FAT32 by creating a second partition on the flash media to hold the persistent overlay file system, placed right after the FAT32 partition and seperate from it. This type of persistent overlay partition happens to contain a reiserfs file system.
It can be encrypted but does not offer transparent data compression (Because that only works really good for read only file systems, such as the ISO file system containing the original [and optionally remastered] Knoppix files. This read-only ISO exists as a partition image file hosted inside the bootable FAT32 partition for flash media written by both the traditional and the experimental flash installer programs. It has to be in a image file [not a real partition] because it is a compressed ISO which can only be uncompressed when mounted through the cloop driver. This also holds true for Knoppix CDs/DVDs, where this compressed ISO image file exists as file KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX hosted inside the ISO file system encompassing the optical medium.)
On a 8 GB flash medium/storage device there only is room for boot files, a compressed ISO image file from a Knoppix DVD (3.81 GiB) and a overlay file system smaller than 4 GiB. You could write a flash medium containing only the CD version of Knoppix onto a 8 GB flash device, making the experimental installer neccessary to maximise size of the persistent overlay file - But who would want only the CD version on a flash device of that size? That was my reason for saying that the experimental flash installer only has benefits for media larger than 8 GB.
Otherwise usable Knoppix install on USB flash not booting on PC of ttopp
Hello ttopp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ttopp
Yes I cannot yet boot any of the 3 sticks on My PC.
(I've since corrected the ide and ata cards to boot correctly so no hardware conflict or tricking in bios anymore.)
This was interesting in that half way through traditional install my PC recycled and went completely to the initial screen as if rebooting - I swear - It came back up and finished the install to the 8GB SanDisk and it booted on the other PC. I've since redid it- for confidence - but pretty interesting.
*This was using the traditional installer. And it does not boot My PC.
It looks like we begin to corner this problem. It is specific to Your PC. Your PC can not boot Knoppix from flash storage devices, yet it can boot FreeDOS (the SpinRite medium You mentioned). We can not be sure yet, but it looks like this happens to Your PC for media created with the traditional as well as the experimental Knoppix flash installers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ttopp
Shucks, I thought that it might be solved by eliminating the extra usb ide card. I have 2 usb on the back of case from motherboard and two usb on front of new case. And four on an add on ide that was purchased before the new case.
In short I thought I may have a usb conflict. So I took the ide card out and still no boot from back or front.
The next steps You could try to corner this problem further:
- Could You make sure that Your PC is not one of these newfangled things which can only boot via UEFI method? (EFI boot could work with a "newer" Knoppix 7.1, but is not yet there).
- If You haven't already done that, could You try booting Your Knoppix flash device using diffrent USB ports (or with a "MultiCard" USB adapter on different USB ports, in case You are using a SDHC memory card or other flash device).
- Try booting from a Knoppix CD/DVD with cheat codes: Attach Your flash media, boot from optical media and use the command to determine the device name given to Your not-yet-bootable Knoppix flash medium. Then reboot from DVD again, and at the prompt use the cheat code
Code:
knoppix bootfrom=/dev/sdb1/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX
. (Assuming fdisk -l told You before that Your Knoppix flash storage device has been assigned name /dev/sdb.). - Create a Knoppix boot floppy (which then can continue "chain-"booting from flash medium) and use that instead of a DVD. That was a common approach when USB boot was not yet supported by many PC BIOS, IIRC.
Good luck with that.
Did the boot from DVD continue to load from flash storage?
Hello ttopp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ttopp
I then booted with the dvd and at the knoppix penguin I typed knoppix bootfrom=/dev/sdd1/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX and here is where it says, searching ISO for KNOPPIX ?
What did happen after the searching? Did it just hang there? Nothing?
For both USB flash devices, I would expect the boot loader from the DVD to mount the partition image file from the flash storage and to continue booting to the Knoppix desktop, but without mounting the persistent overlayfile system on /dev/sdd2. Did that work?
