knx-hdinstall removed! knoppix-installer busted!

Printable View

05-19-2004, 06:58 AM
lavaman094

knx-hdinstall removed! knoppix-installer busted!

Being a long-time user of knoppix, I downloaded the recent version of it a week or two ago.

I found that knx-hdinstall was gone! This surprised me greatly, as knx-hdinstall is better (to me) than knoppix-installer. I'm not afraid of terms like "root password", so I dislike seeing "administrator password". knx-hdinstall also offers more flexibility and configuration, to my liking than the other installer.

But, I tried knoppix-installer, and it failed to give me a bootable system. I've told it to install lilo to the MBR, but it doesn't work. It shouldn't be a problem, but it seems it might be that it is--my booting linux partition is 140 GB into the drive.

Upon reboot, the sytem said (with a bootdisk):
"Boot error. loading linux ebda is big, kernel setup stack overlaps lilo second stage."

If I don't use a bootdisk, I get all 99 99 99 99 99 etc...

I am installing to the third partition on my hard drive, that's the way it is, that can't be changed, and I'm surprised knx-hdinstall was removed, when it's obviously better if it can make a boot disk that works, as opposed to knoppix-installer, which never has made a working bootdisk for me.

So, why was knx-hdinstall removed? Certainly not for space reasons! Also, knx-hdinstall, seems to no longer be compatible with the new knoppix disks. I ran it using a new new ISO, and it wouldn't run!

So...when will knx-hdinstall return, why was it removed, and when will knoppix-installer be able to make working bootdisks for me?
05-19-2004, 04:21 PM
jammin

Bring back knx-hdinstall!!!!

/bump/

Yes include knx-hdinstall next time PLEASE, as lavaman mentions it cant excatly take up much space and I find it much more versitile.

A choice between the 2 would be great.
05-19-2004, 08:10 PM
mzilikazi

Well you could simply download the installer and run it although I completely disagree about the old installer having more functionality. Perhaps you just haven't explored its full potential yet?
http://debian.tu-bs.de/knoppix/installer/
05-19-2004, 08:44 PM
lavaman094

Quote:

Originally Posted by mzilikazi

Well you could simply download the installer and run it although I completely disagree about the old installer having more functionality. Perhaps you just haven't explored its full potential yet?
http://debian.tu-bs.de/knoppix/installer/

I addressed this:
>Also, knx-hdinstall, seems to no longer be compatible with the new knoppix disks. I ran it using a new new ISO, and it wouldn't run!

Thanks for the link, have you been able to use knx-hdinstall in one of the new disks that has it removed? Any special tricks? I executed it from a home directory, with the templates.tgz in the same directory as the shell script.
05-19-2004, 10:01 PM
mzilikazi

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavaman094

I addressed this:
>Also, knx-hdinstall, seems to no longer be compatible with the new knoppix disks. I ran it using a new new ISO, and it wouldn't run!

Sorry musta missed that. :roll:

Quote:

Thanks for the link, have you been able to use knx-hdinstall in one of the new disks that has it removed? Any special tricks? I executed it from a home directory, with the templates.tgz in the same directory as the shell script.

Nah, truth be told I haven't even booted Knoppix for 3 or 4 months :)
05-22-2004, 12:11 AM
Jesse

The Knoppix 3.4 (5/10/04) installer file no longer is named (knx-hdinstall).
The new file, which Is located in usr/sbin directory is named knx2hd. From your root directory, cd to usr/sbin and then type knx2hd. 3.4 will be installed. It's very easy to do.
Having tried over ten times to install Debian 3.0r2 on my hd, without success, I decided to try Knoppix 3.3 and now 3.4. They installed without a hiccup.

Jesse

P4 water-cooled to 3.6ghz.
05-22-2004, 12:15 AM
lavaman094

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse

The Knoppix 3.4 (5/10/04) installer file no longer is named (knx-hdinstall).
The new file, which Is located in usr/sbin directory is named knx2hd. From your root directory, cd to usr/sbin and then type knx2hd. 3.4 will be installed. It's very easy to do.
Having tried over ten times to install Debian 3.0r2 on my hd, without success, I decided to try Knoppix 3.3 and now 3.4. They installed without a hiccup.

Jesse

P4 water-cooled to 3.6ghz.

Now THAT is the answer I was looking for...Thanks Jesse.
05-22-2004, 10:28 PM
sligh

Gentleman …
With the greatest respect I would like to inquire of the following noticeable changes in Knoppix 3.4 hard drive installation
Knx-hdinstall to knoppix-installer
cdisk to Qparted
If it saved room to install these two changes then it’s an improvement ?
. I cant see any advantage for QParted other than to confuse a new Linux user . I believe this is who the CD or DVD is being produced for . Should a windows user come over to Linux with a little experience in installation he/she will have at least seen fdisk which is similar to cdisk where as Qparted is quite a bit different.. Or is it just me being old school ? Wanting to see at least the utilities remain somewhat the same . I believe I should be able to explain to a new knoppix user the install procedure with out a hiccup changing the install procedure is just adding to the possibility of errors frustration and aggravation on the part of the new user . As I read this thread I see more even experienced users notice the change
05-22-2004, 10:45 PM
lavaman094

Quote:

Originally Posted by sligh

Gentleman …
With the greatest respect I would like to inquire of the following noticeable changes in Knoppix 3.4 hard drive installation
Knx-hdinstall to knoppix-installer
cdisk to Qparted
If it saved room to install these two changes then it’s an improvement ?
. I cant see any advantage for QParted other than to confuse a new Linux user . I believe this is who the CD or DVD is being produced for . Should a windows user come over to Linux with a little experience in installation he/she will have at least seen fdisk which is similar to cdisk where as Qparted is quite a bit different.. Or is it just me being old school ? Wanting to see at least the utilities remain somewhat the same . I believe I should be able to explain to a new knoppix user the install procedure with out a hiccup changing the install procedure is just adding to the possibility of errors frustration and aggravation on the part of the new user . As I read this thread I see more even experienced users notice the change

the command "knx-hdinstall" is linked all over the web as the "knoppix installation" command also... A simlink from knx-hdinstall to knx2hd would be useful to those confused...
05-23-2004, 05:02 PM
sligh

Unfortunately if someone were to do a (May 23 2004) Google search “install knoppix “ the majority of tutorials are supporting “ knx-install “. I know it will change as time goes by .. It could have been changed to the words “spaceship” and I would learn from this forum because I try to keep up to date . Aaaah but the poor new comer who is doing the right thing searching Google is in for knock on the knoggin !
05-23-2004, 05:05 PM
lavaman094

Quote:

Originally Posted by sligh

Unfortunately if someone were to do a (May 23 2004) Google search “install knoppix “ the majority of tutorials are supporting “ knx-install “. I know it will change as time goes by .. It could have been changed to the words “spaceship” and I would learn from this forum because I try to keep up to date . Aaaah but the poor new comer who is doing the right thing searching Google is in for knock on the knoggin !

Thanks for rehashing my post :-)
05-23-2004, 05:48 PM
sligh

Good ideas are always copied :twisted:
I'm just plain guilty
06-07-2004, 01:46 AM
lavaman094

knx2hd???

is knx2hd what used to be "knx-hdinstall", or is it the abhorrent knoppix-installer under a different name?
06-07-2004, 08:34 AM
eco2geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavaman094

is knx2hd what used to be "knx-hdinstall", or is it the abhorrent knoppix-installer under a different name?

"knx2hd" is just a symbolic link to the "knoppix-installer" script.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sligh

I cant see any advantage for QParted other than to confuse a new Linux user .

Since QTParted is a GUI-based clone of Partition Magic, it ought to be a heck of a lot easier for anyone to understand than cfdisk. (DOS fdisk sucks compared to Partition Magic, too.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sligh

I believe I should be able to explain to a new knoppix user the install procedure with out a hiccup changing the install procedure is just adding to the possibility of errors frustration and aggravation on the part of the new user .

Knoppix, the live CD, is a great way to indroduce a newbie to Linux. Recommending that a newbie install Knoppix to hard disk is not a great way to introduce them to Linux (unless you're planning on doing it for them!). The Knoppix installer is an add-on. Extremely well done, yeah, definitely. But it's an add-on.

As Mr. Knopper himself says in the FAQ, in regards to hard disk installation:

"[T]here is currently no installation GUI for this, so installation to a hard drive should probably only be attempted by more knowledgeable Linux users."

If you want to spare new users who want to install Linux in a dual-boot configuration a bunch of "frustration and aggravation," recommend something like Mandrake or SuSE, not Knoppix. (Not sure I can recommend Fedora Core any more, especially with its GRUB problems.) They both have proper, easy-to-use, Windows-like installation routines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavaman094

I've told it to install lilo to the MBR, but it doesn't work. It shouldn't be a problem, but it seems it might be that it is--my booting linux partition is 140 GB into the drive.

Personally, I've had two boot loader disasters, once with LILO, once with GRUB. Even though the problems were specific to the computer I had at the time, I'll never install LILO or GRUB to a MBR again, unless a) Linux is the only thing on the computer; or b) both Windows and Linux are brand new installations, so that nothing is lost if it doesn't work.

In any case, it's really easy to use Windows' NTLDR with a special Windows version of GRUB to dual-boot.
06-07-2004, 11:02 AM
baldyeti

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavaman094

is knx2hd what used to be "knx-hdinstall", or is it the abhorrent knoppix-installer under a different name?

abhorrent ? I have not tried a recent version of the script, but I don't remember it being that bad. Plus this being OSS and all, you're welcome to contribute patches rather than snide remarks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eco2geek

Recommending that a newbie install Knoppix to hard disk is not a great way to introduce them to Linux (unless you're planning on doing it for them!). The Knoppix installer is an add-on.

Don't throw away the debian baby with the knoppix bath, though! Mepis or Kanotix are more suited to HD-install, because they strive to mix less different package pools than knoppix does for our fun and profit.

Realistically speaking though, partitioning and safe dual-booting probably are a tad beyond true newbies, i'm afraid. I have no recent experience with say Mandrake or SuSE (which I used to highly praise), and these distributions probably offer more foolproof and less intimidating tools and procedures regarding those initial hurdles, as you suggest.
06-07-2004, 11:33 PM
tonylmiller

Quote:

Originally Posted by baldyeti

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavaman094

is knx2hd what used to be "knx-hdinstall", or is it the abhorrent knoppix-installer under a different name?

abhorrent ? I have not tried a recent version of the script, but I don't remember it being that bad. Plus this being OSS and all, you're welcome to contribute patches rather than snide remarks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eco2geek

Recommending that a newbie install Knoppix to hard disk is not a great way to introduce them to Linux (unless you're planning on doing it for them!). The Knoppix installer is an add-on.

Don't throw away the debian baby with the knoppix bath, though! Mepis or Kanotix are more suited to HD-install, because they strive to mix less different package pools than knoppix does for our fun and profit.

Realistically speaking though, partitioning and safe dual-booting probably are a tad beyond true newbies, i'm afraid. I have no recent experience with say Mandrake or SuSE (which I used to highly praise), and these distributions probably offer more foolproof and less intimidating tools and procedures regarding those initial hurdles, as you suggest.

I have recently done a dual boot with Win 98 SE using knx2hd and it worked flawlessly for me on the first try. By the way, I'm a linux noob, but I do understand hardware. All it takes is a little reading (mostly on this forum). :D
06-10-2004, 10:18 PM
lavaman094

Quote:

Originally Posted by baldyeti

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavaman094

is knx2hd what used to be "knx-hdinstall", or is it the abhorrent knoppix-installer under a different name?

abhorrent ? I have not tried a recent version of the script, but I don't remember it being that bad. Plus this being OSS and all, you're welcome to contribute patches rather than snide remarks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eco2geek

Recommending that a newbie install Knoppix to hard disk is not a great way to introduce them to Linux (unless you're planning on doing it for them!). The Knoppix installer is an add-on.

Don't throw away the debian baby with the knoppix bath, though! Mepis or Kanotix are more suited to HD-install, because they strive to mix less different package pools than knoppix does for our fun and profit.

Realistically speaking though, partitioning and safe dual-booting probably are a tad beyond true newbies, i'm afraid. I have no recent experience with say Mandrake or SuSE (which I used to highly praise), and these distributions probably offer more foolproof and less intimidating tools and procedures regarding those initial hurdles, as you suggest.

OSS also offers choice. For me, I believe the better installer is knx-hdinstall. I am not stupid, and like control, therefore I find that the knx-hdinstall program suits me best, and has since I began using it, which was when it was the one and only installer.

knx-hdinstall is great, but where did it go? Someone said something about "knx2hd", but is this the-script-formerly-called-knx-hdinstall, or is it simply a link back to knoppix-installer?

Can someone check?
06-11-2004, 03:54 AM
champagnemojo

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavaman094

OSS also offers choice. For me, I believe the better installer is knx-hdinstall. I am not stupid, and like control, therefore I find that the knx-hdinstall program suits me best, and has since I began using it, which was when it was the one and only installer.

Which options were in knx-hdinstall that can't be chosen in knoppix-installer? I realize that there are a few things that appeared in the gui of knx-hdinstall that aren't in knoppix-installer's gui. But they're there...it's not hard to edit .knofig and change the filesystem or choose which services to install or whatever else. I was hesitant to switch too, but I've found that the debian-type install in knoppix-installer can do all that knx-hdinstall did and more. I'm not challenging that you have a choice...I'm just saying that you might like the new script if you give it a chance.
06-11-2004, 04:48 AM
lavaman094

Quote:

Originally Posted by champagnemojo

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavaman094

OSS also offers choice. For me, I believe the better installer is knx-hdinstall. I am not stupid, and like control, therefore I find that the knx-hdinstall program suits me best, and has since I began using it, which was when it was the one and only installer.

Which options were in knx-hdinstall that can't be chosen in knoppix-installer? I realize that there are a few things that appeared in the gui of knx-hdinstall that aren't in knoppix-installer's gui. But they're there...it's not hard to edit .knofig and change the filesystem or choose which services to install or whatever else. I was hesitant to switch too, but I've found that the debian-type install in knoppix-installer can do all that knx-hdinstall did and more. I'm not challenging that you have a choice...I'm just saying that you might like the new script if you give it a chance.

It's my choice. And it makes sense not to use an installer that's harder to use (editing config files? yeah, we can do that, but that's not for n00bs). There is not sufficient explanation of what these "x-type installs" are in teh installer, so I was turned off by it.
06-11-2004, 07:11 PM
stuart_b

After reading here, I'm about to check out knx2hd. If it is simply a link to knoppix-installer, that is sort of a problem, because the program requires KDE. Knx-hdinstall seemed run command line, with graphical dialogs if running with KDE and ncurses ones if X wasn't running. And I have been trying to set up a remaster without KDE, but still able to install to HD.

I'm a little conflicted on the move from cfdisk to QTparted. QTparted allows nondestructive resizing of partitions--which is a big plus. But running parted at the command line is nowhere near as intuitive as cfdisk.
06-11-2004, 10:28 PM
lavaman094

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuart_b

After reading here, I'm about to check out knx2hd. If it is simply a link to knoppix-installer, that is sort of a problem, because the program requires KDE. Knx-hdinstall seemed run command line, with graphical dialogs if running with KDE and ncurses ones if X wasn't running. And I have been trying to set up a remaster without KDE, but still able to install to HD.

I'm a little conflicted on the move from cfdisk to QTparted. QTparted allows nondestructive resizing of partitions--which is a big plus. But running parted at the command line is nowhere near as intuitive as cfdisk.

It would also be a problem because the removal the the original and only working installer (for me) is a blocker type of problem.
06-17-2004, 04:24 PM
sub_slug

What's really tricky about all this is that the faq's all say to use the old method to install. Nothing about the new way, seems if they're gonna change the way you install then the instructions might need an upgrade as well. Not in this post but in others you're simply told to RTFM, oh how helpful that is. Even directly above this on the "Post a Reply" page it states..."read the documentation first Failing to do so may result in you getting no replies..." some of the replies we could probably do without. :wink: