ABOUT TO GIVE UP!!!!!

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05-26-2005, 07:15 PM
knoppixtryer

ABOUT TO GIVE UP!!!!!

okay for 2 weeks i have been desperately trying to use knoppix. i love the look and feel and all the custumizations etc. i can fianally see why microsoft has the monopoly. this just does not work! i try to watch a dvd and it tells me i can't even though i installed a dvd player. i try to burn a cd it says i can't i don't have permission! permission from who???? this is my f**king computer you stupid f**king b*stards. so i calm down and go to the forums for help and get nice directions like: type blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda. where the f**k am i supposed to do this!!!???? man i'll tell you as much as i hate windows and that stupid b*stard bill gates i can see why he has the market share and why everybody uses windows.
1) if you download a program you simply install it and it does what it says, you don't have to do 4 hours of research to try to figure out how to install it by typing some b*llshit to god knows where. just click and install.
2)then once installed you just click on it an viola you can actually run that program!! amazing!
3)you don't have to go to college to learn how to do anything as it is all pretty self explanitory.

the funniest thing about all this is: i am a computer tech by profession, i make a living building, selling, and repairing computers. there is very little i cannot do in windows, all from hands on experience. i rarely have to look up how to do something in windows, but if i want to anything in linux i have to spend hours looking for the answer. and all i ever find is some dude (or dudette) saying it is simple really just type _____ ___ _ ___ and that will do it. okay dude (or dudettet) wherre the f**ck do i type that. just anywhere and linux will magically know what i mean???!!!! wtf. i appreciate all the people who try to help, but come one man try to remember if we knew where to type this crap we wouldn't be asking! you guys who use linux all the time have to remember we don't but we want to the linux movement cannot continue without new users and frankly if we can't figure it out we will go back to what is easy to use and works: windows.
i am so sorry but i am so pissed off that i cannot burn a cd or watch a movie, unless i go into windows where i have no problem
my favorite thing though is when MY computer tells me i don't have permission or the rights do something. let me tell you something you stupid sh*t this is my computer i'll do whatever i want. if it means i have to use windows so be it.
if i am having this much trouble imagine the poor sods who are fooled into thinking they can buy a better os than windows spend all their money to order a nice cd set with a HUGE book only to find they still can't do anything with their computer.
i am so frustrated yet i still want to use linux on my computer!
wanting to vent
thanks
pat
05-26-2005, 08:30 PM
cintra

Frustrated only by idiot posts like this one..
05-26-2005, 10:41 PM
UnderScore

Quote:

okay for 2 weeks i have been desperately trying to use knoppix.

Your joined date indicates that you joined today with a total post count of 1. Did you ask for Knoppix help in these Knoppix forums? If so what name did you use and please show me where you asked for help.

Quote:

i love the look and feel and all the custumizations etc. i can fianally see why microsoft has the monopoly. this just does not work! i try to watch a dvd and it tells me i can't even though i installed a dvd player.

Playing DVDs in Linux is tricky because of the media & movie industry and the US Government. According to the DMCA act viewing a DVD on an unauthorized system, your PC with Linux, is in violation of the media companies rights because in order to view it, it must first be decrypted & this decryption is illegal (according to the US Govt). Thus every person who want to view a DVD legally must use a licensed & approved DVD player software. Such software is only commerical and proprietary and is not open source or free (as in freedom or as in $$$) for redistribution. Of the free & open source programs that can play DVDs on Linux, practically ALL of them are illegal. If a reseller or company were to bundle these free & open source DVD players with their version of Linux without first getting a license or permission, they would be liable for violating the DMCA and/or copyright laws. So, in order to skirt the yes-it-is-legal-outside-USA no-its-not-legal-in-USA issues, most Linux distributors do not include DVD playback in their systems. I should ALL this headaches & problems on the media/movie industry and the Congressmen whom have their pockets lined with ill gotten gains. Think about it logically. You mention that you should be able to do ANYTHING you want with YOUR PC. But the US Govt & the movies industry says you can't. Also note that MS or Apple specific things like Windows Media or iTunes or quicktime are completely controlled my those companies. Those companies & the US Govt don't want us to view a DVD or to watch a quicktime trailer on whatevery system we want. They want and are controlling how we access products like DVDs that we have already paid for. How then is this the fault of a Linux program or a Linux CD like Knoppix?

Quote:

i try to burn a cd it says i can't i don't have permission! permission from who???? this is my f**king computer you stupid f**king b*stards. so i calm down and go to the forums for help and get nice directions like: type blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda. where the f**k am i supposed to do this!!!????

Permissions may be holding you back and yes it sucks. But please indicate where you asked for help. Again, you have a total post count of 1 here at Knoppix.net.

Permissions are at the heart of both Windows & Linux. In windows, typically the default installed user is also the administrator. In effect they are GOD of their own PC. This at first glance appears to be a sound & rational policy. It is however a dangerous policy. All it takes is some clueless user to click on a Nak3d Chx0rs spam email or M0rtgage Rate$ ad and now they become infected with viruses, adware, spyware etc. Perhaps if they were not running as administrator then the malware would not be able to exploit the user as a source of infection.

In Linux, the default user is NOT administrator (called root). The non-root user has many read-only permissions to devices, paths in the filesystem while the root user is again GOD of the box. So in order to provide good security while at the same time allowing users to access certain hardware devices or run possibly dangerous programs, the concept of groups come into play. If a user is a member of the cdrw group then they can burn CDs. If the user is a member of the game group, then they can play games. It should be fairly obvious that this type or priviledge separation is usefull but can be real annoying. The question remains: Should the user of a Linux box be root or GOD all the time so that he can access all devices & files without running into permissions problems? Many people believe that the user should not run as root by default and that you should only use administrative powers when it is necessary in order to uphold the security & stability of the box.

Quote:

man i'll tell you as much as i hate windows and that stupid b*stard bill gates i can see why he has the market share and why everybody uses windows.

Everyone uses windows because Micrsoft used anticompetitive tactics for over 15 years in order to get to be #1 & to stay #1. In a free market system anticompetitive tactics are simply wrong and in most cases illegal. That didn't stop them. Nor did them being tried & found guilty of being a an illegal monopoly.

Quote:

1) if you download a program you simply install it and it does what it says, you don't have to do 4 hours of research to try to figure out how to install it by typing some b*llshit to god knows where. just click and install.
2)then once installed you just click on it an viola you can actually run that program!! amazing!
3)you don't have to go to college to learn how to do anything as it is all pretty self explanitory.

When running windows you will most likely have the programs: AIM, WinAmp, Acrobat, WinZip, MS Office, Nero, iTunes, etc. All these programs come from different vendors. First time install of those programs is quite easy: Visit each site OR insert CD. Then click, install, click, install. Now how would you go about updating those programs? First check what version of AIM or WinAMP you have. Then visit each site. Then download, Then click, install, click, install. This process seems pretty simple and quite intuitive but fails if you have many differnet programs installed.

Every Linux system uses a concept of a software package management system. This manager keeps a log of all the programs installed on your system, keeps a listing of all programs NOT installed on your system, and easily identifies upgradable programs. This sounds similar to windowsupdate.microsoft.com but it way wider in scope (not just MS programs). A linux user MUST be familiar with the package manager in order to install software. There are usually two methods of manipulating the package system: either by command line or by a GUI utility. Unless you need to install, remove, & update loads of programs at once, the command line utility is usually quicker but obviously not as friendly. So in knoppix you want to install a DOS emulator so you can play an old DOS game. A Google search for: DOS program run on linux. One of the links is to DOSBox - A DOS Emulator http://users.netwit.net.au/~pursang/dosbox.html. So then I go to http://packages.debian.org and search for DOSbox under ANY and I discover that it is in the Debian package management system. So to install DOSBox on Knoppix 3.8.x (assuming the network is properly configured & the machine can access the internet) is as simple running two commands:

Code:

sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install dosbox

The first commands refreshes the lastest package info from the package servers. Then second command tells the system to install dosbox. It will download, decompress, and setup it up for you. The total download size start to finish is about 10MB.

If this is too much command line mumbo-jumbo, then I agree. That is why GUI tools were made to allow easy access to the package management system. Run the program synaptic or kpackage. Do a FIND or CTRL-F. Type dosbox. It will find the package. Click apply and it will download, decompress, and set it up for you. Once you understand that software installation in Linux is different, then you will realize that it is frequently just as simple as windows.

Quote:

the funniest thing about all this is: i am a computer tech by profession, i make a living building, selling, and repairing computers. there is very little i cannot do in windows, all from hands on experience. i rarely have to look up how to do something in windows, but if i want to anything in linux i have to spend hours looking for the answer.

Tell me how many years you have been working with PCs. How many installs of windows have you done? How many cool registry hacks so you know? People have spent YEARS in windows & slowly learning learning the in's & outs so that living with a MS OS comes naturally. However no one realizes that over the years that THEY HAVE SPENT TIME TO LEARN WINDOWS.

I myself have spent years learning windows & I started with Red Hat 4.x in 1996. I read the install guide & I ended up blowing away my fat16 partition & nuked win95. Did I blame Linux? No because I knew that I had not backed up my data or took the time to learn what I was doing. Duh! I should have invested the time to goof proof the install and backup my programming homework. I was a noobie then and you are a noobie now. I just wish that somehow we could have Linux Gurus to "Adopt a Noobie" whereby they get access to someone to coach/teach them through the rough spots.

Quote:

and all i ever find is some dude (or dudette) saying it is simple really just type _____ ___ _ ___ and that will do it. okay dude (or dudettet) wherre the f**ck do i type that. just anywhere and linux will magically know what i mean???!!!! wtf. i appreciate all the people who try to help, but come one man try to remember if we knew where to type this crap we wouldn't be asking! you guys who use linux all the time have to remember we don't but we want to the linux movement cannot continue without new users and frankly if we can't figure it out we will go back to what is easy to use and works: windows.

You yourself must remember that as a computer professional, tech support comes in all levels of quality and guidance. They failed to meet you at your level & that sucks. However thier failure is only their own. Many of us here at the Knoppix.net forums pride ourselves in putting out best foot forward.

Quote:

i am so sorry but i am so pissed off that i cannot burn a cd or watch a movie, unless i go into windows where i have no problem
my favorite thing though is when MY computer tells me i don't have permission or the rights do something. let me tell you something you stupid sh*t this is my computer i'll do whatever i want. if it means i have to use windows so be it.

Realize that running MS Windows may enable you to get certain tasks done but you do those tasks with the unwritten permission of MS. If a company doesn't want you to do something, then they will prevent it. One such occurance is the ipod & itunes. Once you put an mp3 into the ipod via itunes, you can't get it out and back on to another PC. **EDIT** A plugin for winamp that can bypass itunes was just announcedhttp://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0...tml?tw=rss.TOP. It is a form of control, a small one, but still Apple is dictating how you can use an ipod.

Free Software & Open Source software are all about the freedoms to use, view, edit, create without a form of control or needing permission. Most of us don't like being controlled so we value our freedoms and we look for an alternative to MS and right now that alternative is Linux.

Quote:

if i am having this much trouble imagine the poor sods who are fooled into thinking they can buy a better os than windows spend all their money to order a nice cd set with a HUGE book only to find they still can't do anything with their computer.

Many of the boxed/retail Linux sets come with nice user friendly graphical apps & experiences. They also come with some form of support. Knoppix is a Linux CD that is free as in freedom to use/redistribute and free as in $$$. It comes with no support. If you want an easier Linux experience then you must either be willing to learn and be satisfied with free online support via forums or be willing to put up some cash and get professional support. Linux distributions such as Linspire & Xandros are for cash & designed for non-technical users who want the support and backing of a company. RedHat & Novell/Suse are big professional for cash Linux distributions that tend to NOT cater toward the non-technical user but they do have support if you want it. Then there are volunteer community based Linux distributions like Debian, Gentoo, Slackware, Fedora that are all free $$$ but do not have any for cash support.

Quote:

i am so frustrated yet i still want to use linux on my computer!

Be prepared to read & learn or be prepared to put up some bucks. I, like everyone else, am not gifted with instant Linux or Windows knowledge. It came with a price, and that price is years of learning & experimenting.
05-27-2005, 01:19 AM
eco2geek

Nice reply, UnderScore.

Two points to address knoppixtryer's gripes:
1. Go read the "Installing Multimedia Apps with DVD support" section of this Debian installation guide and it'll tell you how to install and configure multimedia support, including support for watching DVDs, with very little effort.
2. If you start K3b (KDE's CD/DVD-burning utility), and click on Settings > K3b Setup, and read the explanation in the left-hand pane, you'll see how to let K3b set permissions correctly for you.

If you're going to use Linux, you'd better get used to reading all the documentation you can find, going to applications' web sites, asking questions on forums, and using Google to find answers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderScore

Everyone uses windows because Micrsoft used anticompetitive tactics for over 15 years in order to get to be #1 & to stay #1. In a free market system anticompetitive tactics are simply wrong and in most cases illegal. That didn't stop them. Nor did them being tried & found guilty of being a an illegal monopoly.

It's not just that Microsoft's a monopoly. It's not just that that they use bullying marketing tactics to gain and keep market share, like spreading FUD, and blowing smoke up peoples' asses about "innovation" when said "innovation" really is meant to lock people into using Windows. Or... (add your criticism here...)

It's that our entire economy, supported by the government and our laws, is set up to follow and encourage a "create a product; patent/trademark it so no one else can legally copy it without paying you; sell it to the world; and profit" paradigm.

(No, I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with that; it's worked quite well, albeit with many excesses. No, I'm not a proponent of communism. But there is no such thing as a "free market system", here or anywhere else in the world. [Not that a pure "free market system" would be better than what we have now, but that's another story.])

And so you see US government agents going to other countries and, as a matter of national policy, encouraging them to use Microsoft software over open-source software, even though it might be to other countries' economic benefit to use open-source software.

Point is, Microsoft's success is not just due to the fact that Microsoft is a monopoly, it's that the entire system is set up to push and reward the Microsofts.

What's different here is that computer software isn't like durable goods, such as cars, although Microsoft and its backers keep trying to sell it like it is. Unfortunately for Microsoft, the combination of brilliant programmers willing to band together to create open-source software, license it under the GNU GPL, and give it away for free, is an example of a disruptive technology which scares the hell out of Microsoft.

For a much better-articulated take on this, see Neal Stephenson's somewhat dated, but still excellent 1999 essay, In the Beginning was the Command Line.

My personal frustration with Linux is that, as it is largely a non-profit, volunteer effort, its documentation is often somewhat lacking, especially in comparison to Windows. (There's the flip side of the coin.) There is less incentive for people to write documentation when there's no money in it, especially when what they'd rather be writing code. And the documentation that does exist is often outdated, since Linux is a fast-moving target.

Fortunately, as Linux becomes more popular, there's a bigger body of books written about it. Red Hat/Fedora Core, especially. So, if you want to learn how to use Linux, perhaps the best way to start would be by buying a Fedora Core book/CD combo, or a book on SuSE, or Mandriva, using it for a while, and then switching to something more complicated/less well-documented like a Debian-based distro.
05-27-2005, 02:14 AM
bigkahuna

Hey Knoppixtryer,

I'm also a computer consultant, a software and (hopefully soon to be former) Windows developer and have been for 20+ years. The two above posts are more thorough and helpful than anything I ever got from M$oft's technical support (even when M$oft was my client!) in all those years. Pretty darn good for free IMHO.

Knoppix is a great distro, Linux is a great OS and Open Source software is the biggest breath of fresh air this industry has seen in decades. Learning Linux isn't a walk in the park, but it isn't that hard either. As a noobie, google and these forums are your best source of information. If you're smart enough to edit a config file (and I'm sure you are) you can lick this thing, it just takes time.

I was just as frustrated as you, but with the help of many of the folks here I'm running Kanotix almost 100% of the time and all my hardware is working.

It just takes time and a bit more effort. I hope you stick with it, I think you'll be glad you did!
05-27-2005, 07:16 PM
Seyyapc

ABOUT TO GIVE UP!!!!!... Spend more time!

I vote Yes because as you, I found Linux sometimes Frustating, but the more I learn, I realize the little control i have over my old OS (win). Win was always my deafult plataform, I tested OS/2 sometimes when de version 3.0 make a great impact and at one moment several distros of linux (one which are nine CD and already are using as decoration on my library) even knoppix 3.2 or 3.3, but never change my main OS (excep of course new upgrades of Win :roll: ).

Quote:

1) if you download a program you simply install it and it does what it says, you don't have to do 4 hours of research to try to figure out how to install it by typing some b*llshit to god knows where. just click and install.
2)then once installed you just click on it an viola you can actually run that program!! amazing!
3)you don't have to go to college to learn how to do anything as it is all pretty self explanitory.

1- with the sistem APT-GET/DPKG & Klik it's really easy get software comparing with other distros. (Heck even Win didn't have a hell of database for software you'll need)
2- it's the same (unless for me)
3- Something I really apreciated (and sometimes despise for the large of the files) is the READMEs and DOCs you find on the programs, one can download for linux.

Like the people on the post says learn the 'tricks', 'quirks' of a OS take time, Windows to me is very simple but for my father or girlfriend that are currently taking classes to learn about Windows itself, WWW and Word processing, one discovers that is not that easy...so why is so easy? Because i always used it ... school, home. work...

At the end of the last year very tired with the patchs from Windows for security I tested again Knoppix 3.7. Frustated? Yes. Confused? Of course. Lost? Like my father looking for the mouse cursor. I have already decided give it a valid try which of course let me with a system on my computer with I've to admited didn't know really how it works (hey i do things easily now but every day reading info on Linux, is new info that :oops: I didn't know). If you give it a serious try, I tell you for experience that you'll find a great and customize OS.

If you make questions (that already not mentioned on older posts and you cand find yourself) like UnderScore there is a bunch of people on this forum that will make you ask yourself...Is this a forum or a support system. I read this forum for new info and once or twice i go to old posts and discovers great tricks or speedups for my system.

The time you think is lost because of the reading is time you'll recover quicky, why? It's simple, for me learning a tiny bit here a tiny bit there helped me to understand other things that at first when i read them make me yell and like i posted one time kill the people telling me is easy :wink: . I'm still new on Linux end every mean of the word but with patience, time to read and help for this forum I've got the system i like.
http://img41.exs.cx/img41/772/screen...03286ur.th.jpg

Don't give up!
05-27-2005, 08:17 PM
bigkahuna

Quote:

1- with the sistem APT-GET/DPKG & Klik it's really easy get software comparing with other distros. (Heck even Win didn't have a hell of database for software you'll need)

Don't forget "Synaptic Package Manager". As a (soon to be former) Windoze user, I found Synaptic to be -absolutely cool-. I can search for an app, click on it and it's installed, configured (and even an icon in the menu). Synaptic is my "freebie" shopping cart ;)

Keep in mind, Klik (as I understand it) is intended for use with the "liveCD", and Synaptic / apt-get are for a HD install (which is what I've got).

One more bit: if you find that Knoppix just doesn't work for you, try something else. Burn (or buy for a buck a pop) a dozen different liveCD's and see which one works best for you. That's what I did, and that's how I found Knoppix and Kanotix. I got a chance to look at Ubuntu, Fedora, Mandrake, Damn Small Linux, Vector, Suse, etc. etc. and to be honest, they all have good features. Knoppix / Kanotix just happened to work best for me, but we're all different and (here's the beauty of open source OS's) you have almost -unlimited- options.

By the way, I just saved myself about $100 because I let my Nortons and other virus/spyware/etc. licenses expire... I no longer need them... that's pretty cool IMHO.
05-28-2005, 02:27 PM
Cuddles

Ok, how many people didnt think I wasnt going to reply to all of this? ( show of hands? )

I have to agree, that all of the posts / responses are excellent - and had to point out, that I too had a tough time, on the initial...

I think it stems from a "common" thread, if you have worked in Windows for more than a few years, you seem to have problems in Linux. Why? Well, I cant speak for everyone else, only myself, and see if it is a common thought among everyone else, so, here goes. I think it all stems from the fact that I "earned" my knowledge from many years of "pounding" on my keyboard, and monitor, for days, hours, weeks, and even months, trying to figure out why something wasnt working in Windows. Finally getting my answer, and my resolve. All of this with a "license" and with a "support contract" with Windows Support.

If the original poster of this thread would view some of my first, say, hundered posts into these forums, they would find a lot of them as "dumb" questions, lots of them as "how do I do this?" stuff. For someone who has "earned" there degree in Windows, and even worked for them, as a CSR, its heartening, humbling, and down-right a sign of a "non-intelligent" person, to have to come "here" and ask for assistance. Why? I know Windows, I can do almost any kind of Windows Registry Hack, and in Windows, you needed to, lots of times, I can MANUALLY run a setup.inf through a DOS window, I can decypher registry additions from a setup file, and manually do them, I can install a program one command at a time. Over twenty five years of doing this stuff, and I feel like a newborn when I work on Linux, its not a pleasant feeling. Heck, I could have a MSIE or MSCE, and it does NOTHING for me in Linux. All those years of "Windows Experience", is pretty much, USELESS, in here... Twenty Five plus years, just simply flushed down the toilet. I chock it up as, I just spent my time "learning" something that isnt what I really should have been learning, thats all. Humbling isnt it?

Microsoft, and for that matter, Bill Gates, is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, not someone, or something, you want to call your friend. They have proven, over and over, and time and time again, as being a "fair weather" friend. There support is "if-y" at best, and thats when you PAY FOR IT, and you have to still deal with it as it is on "there time" and when they want to help you. Call between 9 and 5 Eastern, dot dot dot. Some of the "techs" I had worked with, were more clueless than I was on the subject I was calling about, and they had all the manuals, all the resources, of Microsoft behind them... And you PAY for this?

This is all volunteer, people want to help, people want to work with you, people want to give of there talents, and I think, people want to GIVE. Its not the same with M$, they are in the TAKE.

Well, enough of the M$ bashing, everyone does it, and its not that hard to find "something" they do, or say, or produce, to bash them with...

As for Linux, I went full-hog - after booting my first Knoppix Live CD, v3.2, I couldnt remove Windows, and install Linux fast enough. I dont have anything Windows OS on any of my systems. Have I regreted it, no. Have I wanted to go back, honestly, yes, a few times, during the initial learning. I had a few hard times, and the Windows 98 Install CD was on my desk, just "pleading" me to return, "come back!! come back to Windows! I understand you, you know what your doing in me! You dont have to deal with all of these headaches in Linux, with me..."

But, I stuck it out, and many of the people in these forums, helped. Kept me from going back to the "dark side", like Obi Won ( pardon if that isnt spelled correctly ) and Luke - dont give in to the "Dark Side", for once you start down the path, forever will it be your destiny... ( that was actually from Yoda )

I think my whole life was running Windows, and, I think it was all the "dark side", but, people change, people can find the right path...

Maybe the original poster of this thread is "meant" to be a Windows "user", maybe, a "linux" user, or, as it was in my case, indifferent. But, I was able to throw away years of "Windows" knowledge, and start fresh, start to learn something completely foriegn, and, maybe, get as good as I was in Windows, in Linux. Dont really know, I'm still learning. I still use the forums, and the IRC channels to ask questions, get resolves, and, hopefully, pass that information on to others, when they need it. I hopefully translate information from a "techie" "nerdie" lingo, into something someone can understand, at any level of experience, I hope.

I always went off the old Army Axiom: Any thing that can be missunderstood, has been missunderstood - so, in many ways, I can be "verbose" ( dont everyone deny this at once - ok? ) -=- I admit it, but, when giving information, you cant be sure how it can be taken, no visual cues in text ( like a puzzled look ) here. So, I tend to explain things down to what they would "see", and what someone would "click" or "type", kind of thing... I think this stems from when I did M$ Tech Support over the phone, you have to do what they are doing, you have to see what they are seeing, and you have to follow them, through everything, and at every detail. For this, I think I have the "longest" posts than anyone else, I think I hold the record for it, not sure though... But, do I think this is a bad thing, no. I think I explain things, maybe more than I should, but, then again, for some people, it could even be, not enough....

As for the initial poster, I hope, if they ever got a response from me, that I gave "concise" information... But, it gets difficult to do, as the new releases come out, and things change between versions... Back in Knoppix v3.2, the Konsole icon on the tray was a clam shell with a monitor, as we moved to newer versions, the Konsole icon changed, last I know, its a monitor with a prompt on it -=- it can be a "root prompt", or a "user prompt", depending on what Konsole you open, etc... The "support" is getting harder and harder, especially as users are getting more advanced, and at different levels of expertise. The forums have tons of people "willing" to help, and capable, but, as the expertise gets higher, it gets harder for people to "speak down" to lower levels... If you could talk to Einstein, I dont think anyone of us could understand him... Everyone is trying to help, but, sometimes, a subject is not known. I dont have WiFi, or Wireless networking, so, I cant really help people on those subjects, not unless, it might be something I have heard, or seen, kind of thing...

I can also add, and this hurt me the most, in my earlier days, was, the time wait... I'd have an "immediate" need for help, and post, and then wait, and wait, and wait, etc... until, hopefully, someone, would assist. Kind of like M$ phone support; dial, stuck on hold for a few days, and hope when the tech on the other end that answers, knows how to solve my problem... or worse, the "guy" gives me a "jerk off" answer that just "gets me off the phone".

I cant say, "you get what you pay for", because this is far better than what I have ever "paid for"... Its just different, thats all, in ALL aspects.

Lastly, to the original poster, keep with it, really, the hard times are learning, and, as you will find out, they dont decrease over time - only the subject changes. After you learn to do CD burning, after you learn to play DVD's, after dot dot dot, you will want to learn, or need to learn, something else... Keep in touch with your resources, your "knowledge" base - like these forums, or the IRC channel, listen, ask, and learn... Its actually a really neat thing. Something I forgot all about in Windows. I knew, well, not everything, but, almost everything in Windows, and in here, I'm a new-born. Its refreshing, challenging, to take on Linux, on a day-to-day basis, I think my brain has been asleep for the past twenty some years, because now, its waking up, and its kind of fun to work on the computer again :)

Ms. Cuddles
06-10-2005, 05:18 PM
Keithj

I was in that same place - trying to understand why I'm an idiot for not knowing that I need to type "grep splat doodah grunt/groan/ooh /this/that/theother" or where to type it. I abandoned Mandrake 10 because it wouldn't work properly despite weeks of RTFM and typing gibberish at various screens. Ditto Suse. I actually got into that ./configure and make_install and stuff, typed into a terminal screen like I used to use in the early 1980s. They call THIS progress? What a PITA. Back to Windows XP I went - it just works, out of the box. For me, anyway. I'm lucky, I suppose.

Then a friend pointed me at Knoppix 3.8.2 and the "Kpackage" feature. That lists every sotware item you could dream of, if it exists for Linux. You just click on "Install", accept the defaults, and off it goes. It either installs and all is done with that couple of clicks, or it tells you there's a problem, in which case ignore that software item.
I love it!

Once I'd got the basics sorted, and the machine networked (that WAS a pain) all has been a dream - like Windows only better.
06-10-2005, 06:01 PM
sakiZ

Ditto That :-)

This is a really good thread. I can see others besides myself have had hair raising experiences in the process of learning Linux. I certainly have had my share. :-)

I started off on Xandros in the fall of '04. I don't know if it was a bad download, a buggy product, operator error, or all three, but I went thru hell with Xandros. I know I made some horrific mistakes. But Xandros wasn't any help. Even when it was working right it was sloooowwww. I finally gave up on it. I could write pages and pages about those experiences but I will spare the group.

I had also been tinkering with a little download called Knoppix. It would always find my hardware, offered my few problems. It was kinda nifty I thought even though it wasn't trying to be the next big thing like Xandros. Then I discovered that it could be installed on a hard drive. Whoa!

At the time, Knoppix was a bunt, after my bad Xandros experiences. All I wanted at this point was a little alternative OS to do net surfing and email as a dual boot setup. My expectations were very diminished.

Yes, I did make more big blunders. Like having to reinstall Knoppix more than a couple of times. I remember try to apt-get something and dumbly ignoring a message asking me if I really also wanted to remove what must have been several hundred files. Now that was REALLY stupid. :-)

At those times I would be ready to give up. But I really wanted to be free of Windows. I would ask myself the origin of these errors. They would always point to ME! So, I would bite the bullet again.

Why all these mistakes? It was new and unfamiliar. I'm not exactly new to computing (since 1984) and my work puts me in charge of 5 ecommerce sites that I manage. But Linux was very different from Windows. With each mistake I would learn something. The forum has been immensely helpful. Now I feel like I know my way around Linux though there is still a bunch to learn.

And Knoppix instead of being just a way to avoid Windoze online vulnerabilites, has become my primary OS!! It's got a lot of nice refinements that XP does not have. It multitasks better! It's safe!

I am now studying how to remaster my own version of this OS.

At this point instead of a bunt I would call it a home run!! So, hang in there all of you who are frustrated. Knoppix is cool!

sakiZ
06-16-2005, 04:33 AM
moustache

knoppixtryer wrote:

and all i ever find is some dude (or dudette) saying it is simple really just type _____ ___ _ ___ and that will do it. okay dude (or dudettet) wherre the f**ck do i type that. just anywhere and linux will magically know what i mean???!!!! wtf. i appreciate all the people who try to help, but come one man try to remember if we knew where to type this crap we wouldn't be asking! you guys who use linux all the time have to remember we don't but we want to the linux movement cannot continue without new users and frankly if we can't figure it out we will go back to what is easy to use and works: windows.

Ok knoppixtryer, boot up your knoppix live-cd, look at the icons in the toolbar at the bottom of the screen. Do you se the little black computer monitor icon? That is a Konsole (command line interface) icon. Click it! It opens a black window just like a "MS DOS prompt". Now you can type commands, JUST LIKE IN DOS....like "dir", "cd" (change directory), "cp" (copy). These are linux commands that work the same as they do at a dos prompt. You just have to learn a few more commands that "unique" to linux such as...su (means super user...also means root priviledges), sudo (do a command as a super user, ie root). Lets set the root password so we can do things only allowed by root (administrator):
Type this in the Konsole window you clicked on:
sudo passwd <now push enter key>
type what ever you want for the root password ( I use the word "root" as my root password....hmmm)
type the same word twice....now the root password is set!
Now if you want to double click on the File Manager program, you cant type in the root password and it will let you in!

Are you still we us knoppixtryer??? Post a reply.

Moustache
06-23-2005, 02:03 AM
Rich_Es

Edit:
07-10-2005, 01:24 AM
rpesq

Hi,

I am also a Linux newbie (although a genuine Windows expert with computing experience dating back to the TI99/4A and C64 days), and I am also finding Linux a challenge. Somewhat like the original poster of this thread, I find a lot of the Linux user help to be less than helpful (certainly NO complaints about this forum. This thread is has some of the most intelligent, well-thought-out, replies that I have seen on any topic).

For example, I found this thread while trying to install Linux on a 2 year old Dell Inspiron 600m notebook PC. The main problem has been getting the PRO 2100 Wireless card working. Last fall I played around with a Knoppix CD, and I liked the "look" and found it promising, but it did not recognize the Pro 2100, so internet use was a no-go. For me, not very useful, so I waited....

So, another approx 9 months later I try again..., decided to go with a full HD install, I researched the topic and found that even though there are probably 100,000+ Intel Centrino notebooks sold worldwide for at least 2 years (this is NOT cutting-edge hardware by any means...), I cannot seem to find a distro that will install a driver "out-of-the-box" for this Pro 2100 wireless NIC. Probably one of THE MOST COMMON wireless NIC's.

2-year-old-common-hardware and not be able to install automatically? Frustrating and disappointing, especially since I find information about the Pro2100 using a NDIS wrapper type of driver having been available for more than a year. Why is it not incorporated into someone's distro package by now?

And, if I understood HOW to install that driver, I would. But, like the 1st guy said, it is very much greek. Compile it? Yes, in the late 80's I programmed Fortran and Turbo Pascal, so I know what 'compile' is, but honestly this is not what most people would expect to have to do just to get a COMMON driver installed. I realize that Linux is different and I am accustomed to doing it the windows-way, but honestly, why is there no double-click to run a driver installation package?

If I could at least get ALL of the hardware working properly on this laptop (which is not my main computer), I could begin to actually USE Linux, thereby experimenting and learning, and once I learn enough, I can permanently switch in the next year or so.

Last evening I tried the lastest Mandrake/Mandriva distro. Looked very nice, but again no-dice on the Pro2100. (And the audio card was apparently incorrectly recognized, because I had no audio either although the OS thought I did). Tried Ubuntu, and again no dice (even though it properly named the Pro2100, it was not able to do anything constructive with it).

So, I am trying SUSE 9.3 tonight because I found a post somewhere saying that the NIC installed properly with SUSE 9.3 (although the post was vague and may have been referring to the wired NIC), and if no go, then Debian 3.1 tomorrow.

Maybe if one of you kind souls has some helpful advice, I can break through this bottleneck. I sort of wish that I could have gotten the nic installed under Mandriva because I liked the look, but at this point anything will be a plus.
07-16-2005, 06:43 AM
rwcitek

PRO 2100 NIC not working.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpesq

Maybe if one of you kind souls has some helpful advice, I can break through this bottleneck. I sort of wish that I could have gotten the nic installed under Mandriva because I liked the look, but at this point anything will be a plus.

Do you know that the card works? That is, how have you ruled out that there is nothing physically wrong with the card?

BTW, maybe we should move this particular thread to the Hardware & Booting forum.

Regards,
- Robert
http://www.cwelug.org/
07-19-2005, 09:22 AM
Quinny

Getting to understand the original poster on this thread. After 8 yes 8 rewrites of a CD eventually got one to boot. OK you genii I hadn't checked the MD5, (but I was confident in my download (never had a problem with cuteFTP in years!) When I then checked it, it was OK anyway! Wrote several CD's with Nero, (another piece of software which has been problem free under Windows). For no apparent reason got one that works. BTW tried 4x didn't work, 8x did.

I finally get system to boot with Knoppix, and it hangs at the X11 prompt! This is getting silly, I originally thought wouldn't it be good if I could learn a bit about Linux, so maybe set up a test Apache / MySQL server. I realised there would be a bit of a learning curve, but cannot see an end in sight. I used to be a proficient techie, but am now researching for small web business. Installed several ports of Unix in past though now forgot most of it, never had the same problems as with this. I read most of the posts on this thread and they are from people a long way in front of me, I shudder to think how a typical user would manage with this implemetation of Linux.
07-19-2005, 09:48 AM
Harry Kuhman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinny

..... I hadn't checked the MD5, (but I was confident in my download (never had a problem with cuteFTP in years!) When I then checked it, it was OK anyway!

I'm glad your md5 sum checked (assuming you checked it properly). But there is good resaon that we stress to new users to check it. I've never had a known bad download of any other file by FTP or HTTP either, but about 50% of the ISO files for Knoppix that I have downloaded from the mirrors have had bad md5 checksums. I've put some time into determining why this is, and I've determined, by binary editing of a good ISO and a corrupt ISO side by side, that sometimes the FTP transfer happend as a text transfer instead of a binary transfer. This "feature" of FTP replaces the bytes that look like Linux new line characters with the byte pairs that look like Microsoft cariage return / line feed characters. Good for text file transfers, will ruin your binary download.

I don't know why it's happening for me. I have my FTP client set up to force a binary transfer, not to "automatic". But still I would download for hours and frequently get a bad download. I can only guess that some setting is wrong on the mirrors that lets this happen. Obviously it only happens when you download to a Windows system, not when you download to another Linux system. I now use BitTorrent, which is faster, has built in error checking, and does not suffer this problem.

So rather than get into discussions with several users a day about FTP transfers that translate between different ascii formats, we tell users that it is important to check the md5 sum, which will catch this problem and any others. What I dont understand is why people like you ask for help but then will not make the check.

I'm glad that you have a good ISO. I don't know why you are having boot problems. Have you followed all of the instructions in the downloading faq? Have you tried the testcd feature at boot time? Have you tried using any cheat codes? My experience is very different than yours, the Knoppix CDs that I have burnt boot on every single computer I've even tried them on. Sometimes old memory starved 486s boot too slow to really be useful. Sometimes there are things like an old sound card that don't get recognized. Sometimes I've needed cheat codes (nodma on one system with versions 3.4 to 3.7; noscsi and acpi=off on another system for the same version range). But my CDs always boot on about 6 systems I have used them on here and on at least eight or nine systems of friends that I have given CDs to.
07-19-2005, 10:07 AM
Quinny

I am grateful for the help supplied here, and was not reluctant to follow the check. I read the site and saw the instructions on how to check in linux/unix, but did not see the next bit which was the downloads of windows checkers. BTW when I did eventually download a windows checker it was by no means straight forward. I sussed it, but most of my colleagues wouldn't have.

There's a whole new vocabulary in this environment that will be impossible for a typical windows user to even comprehend.
07-19-2005, 01:19 PM
rwcitek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinny

There's a whole new vocabulary in this environment that will be impossible for a typical windows user to even comprehend.

Agreed. In those cases, I recommend that people find a local linux users group (LUG), join their mailing list, and attend one of their meetings. In many cities, there is often more than one LUG. For exmaple, here in Saint Louis, Missouri, we have several that meet at different times during the month. At each one, people will be glad to burn CDs, give demos, and answer your questions. Some groups even have regularly scheduled "installfests" where you can bring your machine and someone will help you with linux on your machine.

Regards,
- Robert
http://www.cwelug.org/
07-26-2005, 09:12 AM
ckamin

Frustrated? Not me!

Hi Guys,

I apologize for barging in on this thread, ranting and reminiscing, and I'm not too sure that it is the appropriate topic to post here, but I found the thread rather interesting and discovered some unique perspectives in this group. You can skip by my history lesson and other BS (boring stuff) and go directly to the 6th through the last paragraph to get through this quickly, if you feel the need or lack the time to read.

I am rather new to Linux even though I have used it infrequently over a number of years. I remember purchasing a set of the original Corel Linux disks packaged with the manuals. I installed it on a rather new pentium 2 at the time and was amazed how trouble free the install was. I did select linux "compatible" components, but Linux did the rest. There were no conflicts and everything worked without any further configuration or driver installation. It was so unexpected that I almost soiled my undershorts when it all worked the first time around, since I did expect it to act much worse than the latest version of Broken Windows installed over DOS. It was also based on Debian if I remember correctly. It was a great little distro with almost everything you needed to do most everyday tasks. Unfortunately it went the way of the Edsel (Old Ford Junker). I have used a few older Red Hat, Slackware, and other distros and probably still have the retail boxed disks (Some on Floppys) around somewhere. Yes, I purchased the disks since I would still be in the process of downloading them today with the "Cutting Edge" 1200 Baud modem I had back when I started out. Blank CDs back when I started burning them, were well over $30 each and the writeable CD drives were over $5000. You had to configure and master a disk before you could burn it and it required some serious time expended to get it right the first time, since the media was not cheap and systems were slow. It was burned at 1X or less and the entire process could take the better part of a day if you were successful. We used cutting edge systems (I386), loaded with Tons of memory (4 Meg or more), with incredibly huge hard drives (several hundred Meg apiece), capable of holding an entire CD image between an array of several drives. I now mostly use Nero or VSO and rarely give any of it a second thought. It is so easy to burn a disk today, but it was quite an achievement back in it's beginning. It took a lot of expertise and time to do it correctly. It's the same type of learning curve with Linux/Knoppix today. If you have someone that is proficient with it locally and willing to help guide your learning process, you can benefit from their experience. Out here where I live, we just got electricity, paved roads, indoor plumbing, and telephones last year, and it is hard to find someone with enough expertise AND willingness to help me along. For that reason, I rely heavily on these forums for information and insight. I could always travel a few hours to a more Metro-Area and explore the possibility of a Linux Users Group and I might have to consider doing so, but with the price of gas and tolls these days, it would still be only an occasional trip.

My motivation for using and exploring Linux certainly is NOT saving the cost of some other OS. If you look at what is involved in getting proficient with any Linux Distro, most people would rather pay money for something simpler. I just like a challenge and have found another one with Linux. Besides. it beats the heck put of sitting outside and watching the cars rust, the grass grow or fixing broken Windows systems. It keeps your mind sharp and your learning processes working. I'm one of those older, but pretty Tech saavy people, with a lot of experience in many areas. (I'm rather severely over 20 and won't see the half century mark ever again) I also never fail to impress someone when their "Broken" system boots up from my Knoppix disk and runs like it did when new. Their system usually suffers from those self inflicted issues like Kazaa, Search Toolbars, downloaded games, and other invitations for Malware (usually blamed on "the Kids"). I usually almost have to beat them up to get my disk back with me and usually end up making a gift of it, IF I think they won't hurt themselves with it, and some others if I think they will.

I have played with Knoppix for, I would guess, about 3 or 4 years now. I have tried a few of the "Modified" Knoppix distributions. I am certainly impressed with how far it has come in such a short time. Unfortunately, I have not spent the time I should have to become more familiar with it. I refuse to get frustrated with MY inexperience and I find it extremely helpful to go through the posts in this forum. Most of my questions were already answered or addressed somewhere within. I will probably never get to the upper levels of proficiency with Knoppix, but I am satisfied with each small accomplishment and discovery I make. There is a lot to learn and so little time, but I would not think of blaming the OS for my inability to be patient and take the time to learn it. I use whatever tools I have learned to use and do so on some spare systems I have laying around, if I have any reservations. It does a dynamite job of testing and verifying my hardware outside of windows, or before an OS install. It is convenient and does not require extensive set ups or installs to get it running.

I have found that quite a few people have some sort of instant gratification expectation. In other words, it should automatically install in less than 1/2 hour on any configuration and they should be an instant expert with it! It just does not happen like that in the real world. There is a rather steep learning curve with Linux, but it appears to be worth it. I have downloaded the 4.0 LinuxTag DVD and am thoroughly hooked and impressed. Even though there are some bugs mentioned, it works well enough to do what I need it to do, most of the time. There is so much included on the DVD and most of which I know little or nothing about. It is an adventure discovering what is there and what it does. You get out of it what you are willing to invest in it regarding the time and effort expended. There really are no short cuts, except to rely on the more experienced users and the limited written documentation to help you through the rough spots. Not to complain about a lack of up-to-date written documentation, but it is difficult to produce a "Current" users guide since Linux is a moving target.

Now for my main reason for posting here. I might have a little little insight for some of the previous posters regarding disks that will not boot, prompting MD5 checks, etc. One thing I have experienced that can cause a disk to fail is BAD MEDIA. You know the stuff that was on sale for under $10.00 a hundred at the local Geek shop. I used to buy loads of it and I still have most of it hanging around collecting dust, since it is usually pretty worthless for use with applications like a Knoppix CD. On these El Cheapo CDs, you can hold them up at an angle to a light source and actually see the defects. There are usually some defects in the middle of the disks and some near the outer edges. DVDs are harder to see the defects on and they are most often near the outside of the disk, so a 4 Gig burn such as Knoppix 4.0 may not be affected, but you would notice issues with a full length video near the very end. I use a disk inspector program to check the occasional disk, but I stay away from the no-name cheap stuff. I also do not really bother to do an MD5 test unless I have a failure of some sort or am investigating some issue. I know I really should, but I have run into very few problems with the later downloads. Bittorrent seems to do an incredible job of downloading a correct image file. I have also had a few suspect downloads early on, but not lately. I can only offer my experience with poor media as another possibility to think about. I now use only the Premium disks, or more precisely, a brand/type that is known and proven to work well in my drives, to burn Knoppix onto, because it's worth it. I save the cheap stuff for audio CDs that I might leave in extreme heat or sunlight inside a car or something like that. You know, the disposables that double for frisbees at the beach or found hanging from the rear view mirror, or used to graphically test a microwave oven for proper function!

Another issue that I have seen is the failure of some CD and DVD drives to read some brands of media well AND that some Writeable drives have difficulty writing to some media. Not that the media is actually defective, it's just that the media does not work well with that particular drive, for whatever reason. Sometimes a firmware upgrade takes care of the issue. I'm not sure if all of this applies to your situations, but it has driven me nuts in the past and I do check my Media and drive compatibility before I pull out what's left of my hair. I recently had a DVD drive that did not read DVD-R well and seemed to prefer DVD+R media when I first tried the 4.0 LinuxTag DVD. The system hung at inconsistent points, sometimes failed to boot completely, failed to shut down properly, locked up a few times, and just did not work well with the DVD-R. A switch to DVD+R solved the issue and now the system works as it should.

I also boot a newly burned "Official" Knoppix disk with the "Knoppix testcd" cheatcode for the first time and am satisfied that if it passes all checks, with no failures, the disk is reasonably accurate. That tells me that the download was probably good and the burn to disk and media is most probably good. At least it proved out for what was tested. Some re-mastered disks will not always pass the "testcd" cheat on start up. I believe I know what the issues are and it does not appear to mean that the disk is not good, only that it is NOT the "original" disk as configured before the modifications. The "testcd" cheatcode also appears to work for the DVD version, it just takes a while to run the test.

I have also encountered faulty memory or bios memory settings in some systems causing hangs and other failures. It may be worth the effort to test the system memory with one of the "Memtest" programs. It makes sense simply because Knoppix runs on a "Ramdisk" and bad ram could spell trouble that might not always show up consistently in Windows or other hard drive based OS. It is sometimes bad enough that it could prevent Windows or other OS from installing properly. I would also guess that Knoppix may not boot successfully either. On occasion, simply changing some memory settings to more conservative values in the bios will take care of the issues.

Thank you all again for participating in these forums and helping us learn and use Knoppix. Without dedicated individuals who sacrifice their time to help others, something as great as Knoppix or other similar projects would struggle even harder to exist. I would hope that I sometime reach a level of proficiency that would enable me to be on the "Helping" side rather than the "Need Help" side of it in order to repay those who had helped me get there. In the meantime, I will endeavor to ask good questions so that others may benefit from my lack of knowledge and experience with Knoppix/Linux. :)
08-11-2005, 01:01 AM
Greatwolf

I could sure use some help with my post over here

If there's any missing info that you guys need to know just post and let me know. I'll see what I can find out.

And yes, I am feeling the frustration in getting this thing to work.

Thanks
08-11-2005, 03:49 PM
arkaine23

Yah, linux is frustrating to learn at first. There's so much you can do with it and its infinitely customizable. Knoppix is a great distribution to get started with. No commitment, excellent foundation (Debian, apt-get), friendly community. Sure you've got to install libdvdcss and break US copyright laws yourself if you choose to, and setup a few things initially so you have permission to do what you want. It's worth it in the long run.
08-22-2005, 06:23 AM
Sw@ppa

and i just love you guys, thanx :shock:
10-09-2005, 08:11 PM
sx75

Why most people use Microsoft Windows one reason is that Bill is great businesman, most of people arent able to sell their products so well. People buy it despite they can get Op Sys freely.
Second reason is that in Windows is beginner friendly. I have try get my laptop wifi card work about 3 weeks using Knoppix, i have try 3.7; 3.9; 4.0 versions and i ahve try do same thing with Mandriva 10.1, Slackware 9.0 Suse 9.2 even DSL 1.4. and no success. I am total newbie i have read many forums many FAQ and Manuals.
But i am samekind newbie in windows i afraid that using Windows XP its more difficult to start wifi connection but i was wrong it start work after 10 min. So why Linux is waste of time if i try to do something 3 weeks !!!!!!!!!! and no luck and with Windows same thing take about 10 min. Im sorry but to me MS Windows leads 1:0.
And my wifi card is Asus WL-107g it has Linux drivers even on manufacturer cd.
10-26-2005, 10:24 AM
mdsmedia

Hi,

I'm very new to Linux and to Knoppix. I've installed Linux before, and quite frankly loved it. I've got questions, but I'll ask them either in a different thread or after this post.

I'm not going to get into MS bashing here, although I have pretty strong feelings about MS.

When I installed Linux previously, it wasn't that Linux couldn't do what I wanted. I think it's quite obvious you can do anything you want with Linux. It was that I didn't spend the time to learn the OS. Yes, it's new. Yes I have certain packages that I HAVE to use which only support Windows. But that's not a problem if you use a windows emulator within Linux. I haven't learned how to install or use one yet but that is just a matter of time.

To answer the previous post, regarding wifi, I loaded a live DVD of Ubuntu 7 a few days ago (I think it's 7) and I'm running wifi as we speak. I didn't even wonder whether it was going to work. It just did. Having said that, I have a live CD of Knoppix 3.3 which I also ran the other day and it didn't even look like I had any connectivity. That's not the fault of the OS. Do some reading. Work out what does work. Ask some questions. OR, go back to the lazy ways of Windows...and be controlled by the OS rather than controlling it.
10-26-2005, 03:24 PM
Cuddles

What seems to get to me, the most, is, that everyone seems to compare Windows and Linux, as if they are the same; like an apple to an apple, or an orange to a orange, kind of thing... Linux is to Windows, or Windows is to Linux, as, an apple is to an orange, or, a grapefruit is to a watermellon.

Other than the most obvious, both ARE Operating Systems, yes, but, that is about the only likeness. One is more popular, one has tons of available software, make for it, either by "paying" them to create it for it, or, hardware, that is designed specifically for it, because of either it being a "large" pool of people using it, or, money is "piped" into the hardware manufacturers to ensure that it is made for that OS. Whereas, the other OS, has to deal with volunteers to develop for it, or work out ways to re-design something that works for another OS, so that it works in its OS. About the funniest thing I can think of is, what if the tables were reversed? Would Microsoft be where Linux is today? Would Linux be where Microsoft is today? As in the case of "natural wild life survival", not just the strongest survive, but, rather, the one than can trick, steal, have a lot of "vulturistic" tendancies. In the world of "big business", and corporate hierarchies, it isnt always the person on the top, but, the person who can watch there back, and at the same time, watch where they are going, who get ahead. Which is not always the better, or the best, of the market, just the one who can "sell" better, or "steal" better, or, make there product more "visible" to the public. If the amount of money, that has been poured into M$ products, hardware and software, was placed into Linux, I am quite sure the market would look a lot different, than it does right now.

As for the "problems" that seem to plague Linux, no support for this, or, I cant run that, stuff, my best thinking is... Wait... or design yourself... Linux is gaining strides in popularity, and, sooner or later, if it keeps growing as it is, a lot more things will work with Linux, but, until then, I guess, the easiest way to say this is... Live with it, or go back to Windows. I have been running Linux since my membership was started here... At that time, I removed all M$ products, hardware and software, OS, etc... and have only run Linux on my systems. True, I cant walk down the software aisle at the computer store, and buy the newest games for Linux, sure, but, I live with that. I dont have "much" new hardware, or software, that I havent been able to use in Linux, but, then again, I am not running a "cutting edge" hardware computer - unless you want to bring up the subject that I am running a AMD 64 bit, power shifting gigahertz processor, and Linux was the first to be able to handle it. I can also mention that I havent had to run viri sig updates, I havent been infected since I installed Linux by any trojan or viri, and I havent had to download tons of "microsoft security updates" to patch the previous security holes, only to find, they have either added more, or not covered the holes enough...

Linux is new, Linux is different, yes... But, I guess, if I was going to make a sentence that should pop up when you decide to install any Linux OS, it would have to be this: Thank you for installing Linux, oh, by the way, you will now become very intimate with your hardware, to include knowing the chipsets of your devices. You will have to research a lot, you will have to fix your own problems, you will have to find your own answers, now. The training wheels have now been taken off of your computer! -=- So, if you decide to install Linux, you are either going to be having some major accidents, or you're going to be riding off into the sunset, without any problems, your choice... Not everyone makes this change as easy, some take some nasty falls first, some just "take to it like a fish to water" kind of thing, but, I dont think anyone can say, that, they got over the hurdles unscathed, just some more than others. I've had my share of blown installs, re-installs, hosed installs, bad installs, messed up apt-get's, etc... It comes with the teritory, I guess... I can still say, myself, that Linux is better than Microsoft, because Linux works for me, and I have put the time in, to learn what I need, what I dont know, and what I should know... I still have a lot to learn, but, I get by... I would never go back to Windows, and that is saying a lot, considering the money being dumped into research and development for M$, for the sheer amount of "stuff" being introduced for M$ OS's, either in the games, productivity, hardware, software, etc...

I like having control over my system, and, after getting used to not having the training wheels, I like not having them...

Just my thoughts,
Ms. Cuddles
PS - mdsmedia, I would suggest NOT hijacking this thread for your questions, but, rather, make a seperate post... Chances are, if you want an answer, adding to the bottom of this "very" long thread, is not going to get as big a response, as a seperate posting. Be sure to give a good subject for your post, something that explains the body of your post, give as much details in your post. If the problem is dealing with hardware, give as much information about the hardware, as you can. Include error messages, if possible. If its configuration issues, ALWAYS, be sure you include what version of what Linux you are running, it helps! e.g. I am running "Knoppix v3.4" "hard drive installed" or "running off the Live CD" - stuff...

If your problem is with a ASUS WiFi model xxyy card, you could use most of that in the subject of your post, and include more details in your post, like what you have tried, any errors, the version of Knoppix you are running, and if it installed or running just from the Live CD... kind of stuff :D

Hope this helps, not everyone is "born" with knowing what to do in Linux, we all have to start somewhere :)
( Ms. Cuddles )
10-26-2005, 04:51 PM
mdsmedia

Thanks Ms Cuddles,

I wasn't going to "hijack" this thread.......I just wanted to add my 2c worth. I enjoyed most of the posts in this thread. I think enough said.

I'm a Linux Very Newbie. So much so that the subject of this thread has given me heaps of info.

I'm GOING to make the move from Windows to Linux because I know I can. It won't be easy and I know that. But I now have the confidence I can do it.
10-27-2005, 04:05 PM
Cuddles

mdsmedia,

I didnt accuse you of doing it, or that you would do it, just a better thing, to say something, you'll get better answers, I promise you... ( just wanted to point that out )

If you put your mind to it, you can do it. Linux isnt that bad, getting around, and doing things, is different, but, a lot of resources are available to help, anyone, transition over to Linux...

As for Knoppix,
*** You have these forums
*** You have the FAQs
*** You have the WiKi
*** You have the chat channel - irc.freenode.net;6667 - #knoppix

If you opt for Kanotix,
*** Everything above, on its own site, and the same chat, but in room #kanotix

If you go with Debian,
*** They also have a room on the same chat, #debian

And, lastly, you have SourceForge site, and Google for stuff also...

Good luck, mdsmedia, on your transition, and learning :D
Ms. Cuddles
10-31-2005, 02:33 AM
Kowood

Your 4 hours of bullshit should be 6 seconds of apt-get install libdvdcss ogle mplayer. No fair. Cuddles has lots of time to make posts into essays while I have to do homework and identify the layer of the OSI model at which a bridge operates. Hehe.
10-31-2005, 03:09 PM
Cuddles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kowood

Your 4 hours of bullshit should be 6 seconds of apt-get installs ... No fair. Cuddles has lots of time to make posts into essays while I have to do homework and identify the layer of the OSI model at which a bridge operates. Hehe.

Kowood, now, that, wasnt fair :(

I have the weekend to keep up on posts, and about two or three hours every morning, mostly. Besides, maybe, I was a former English Teacher in a previous life, and this is how I get back at having to correct all those essasys??? Or, maybe all that crab and lobster has gone to your head, whereas, all the cheese has gone to mine :D

Ms. Cuddles
11-17-2005, 08:50 PM
MindJester

Viva LA free!!!

Ok... so you want to learn Linux, or KNOPPIX (in general), but you're stuck with Microsoft's brainwashing and "plug-and-play", "Click-And-Install" BS.

First of all
Don't post SH: that's just gonna' take up virtual space...

2nd of all;
"Anything Free is worth Working for." Take some time, sit your a$$ down for an hour or two, however long it takes your unoperative brain to proccess RTFM. If you don't know what RTFM is, look it up on Google. I don't know why anyone would spend money on "A 9 disc set, and all the books", when #1, you can get, (My personal fav.), OS or Distro for free at Http://www.Knoppix.com

I don't have a College Degree, or even a Damn HS Degree for that fact, and I can build computers, fix them, repair them, troubleshoot them or whatever, and know HTML and can write webpages. The only way you learn is if you put your mind up to it, and if it's able to understand what you are working with. Example; would you try a free product if you knew it had side effects? What if you didn't know what he side effects were? What if it's incompatible with other products you are currently using? Always know what you are doing, or what you want to be doing, before you try anything new.

So 3rdly, and Lastly;
I am not going to tell you exactly "How to do" Everything, because I could make a guide for people like that and they would pay for it, and i am not going to lose money when it's needed, otherwise I'd pay Microsoft. heh. So learn what you can, forget what you can't, and either move on, or move out. 8)
11-18-2005, 07:56 AM
LoneTrantorian

<scratching head> You apparently have an issue with people
who wish to learn things that are new to them. Such condition
is, by nature, self correcting. So why the issue, and why the
insult? Kiddo, some of us old folks have been doing this (waz
BBS then) since one had to figure out the parity & stop bits to
set on one's modem. Sheesh. I thank you for not responding to
my post when I needed basic assistance.

-Mouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by cintra

Frustrated only by idiot posts like this one..
11-18-2005, 06:14 PM
Cuddles

MindJester,

I can see where you are coming from, I have worked in the "support" field, see any of my "heart-felt" previous posts. Most of my "lengthly" posts, usually, come from the heart, and, on a subject that I feel "strongly" about. So, be fore-warned :) -=- This might be one of those...

I have had many "support" calls, having done support for family, friends, and having the "job", of support for Microsoft, previously, I had a sense of "people", down to a sceince...

After taking more than 1,000 support calls for Microsoft, first in Win95 roll-out, and then, for MSN Online support, you learn to "feel out" people, in what, and how they say things, and, in most cases, this needed to be done, within the first two minutes of talking to them. This is "my take" on the "education" of support. ( NO ONE, I repeat, no one, take offense to this... It is only intended to educate, and possibly, enlighten. )

I have found that there is two kinds of people in the world, when it comes to "computer support":

The first, I call, stupid people - these kinds of people, are, usually, paranoid that they may have done something wrong, pressed the wrong button, ran the wrong program, etc... The usual "intro" you get from these people, within the first sentence of talking with them, is, "I'm completely computer illiterate". All these kinds of people need, is, education. They need assistance on "finding" there answers, and then, they learn from that education. These are the easiest of the two kind of people, to be dealing with. They learn, they want to learn, they want resolution, and, they are willing, to work "with you" to get it done.

The second, and the worst of these two kinds of people, is, idiots - these kinds of people, are, usually, about the same as stupid poeple, when it comes down to helping, except, no matter how hard you try, or work with them, they are completely incapable of learning ANYTHING. They may try and sabotage any attempts of you helping them, they may stall, they may not follow what you need them to do, and, in most cases, they dont care about the problem, or issue, or, its resolve. What they care about, is, having someone do it for them, any, and all, times. This is not the same as "hand holding". Hand Holding is a human characteristic, from people who dont want to mess things up any more than what they already "feel" they have been messed up, which, may only be in there own head. The problem could just be blown out of proportion, due to the persons lack of knowledge, and knowing just how little damage they had done. Hand Holding and "idiots", are, lets see, a fine line? After a person who needs "hand holding" learns, or is educated, they tend not to need to be hand held any more, whereas, an idiot, would continue, as long as you were willing to continue to hold there hand.

An idiot, gernerally speaking, would rather YOU drive from New York to Los Angeles, and "personally" fix the problem "for them", rather than, have you "assist" them through a forum. An idiot, would, rather re-post the same problem, over and over, again, to get, yet another response, that, states the exact same as previous posts, than to "know" they can "search" or "bookmark" a previous post, to get there repeated answer, for a problem. ( this is not the same, if you dont "know" you can search, an idiot "would know" that they could search, and would rather re-post another thread, whereas, the "stupid person", would, after learning about searching, would, learn to search, and not make a second "repeat" posting. )

To add more into these "two kinds of people", you also have "degrees", or, "hues", of these two. Like: total idiot, complete idiot, clueless idiot, mild idiot, and, the same goes for "stupid". Now, these are all "my" definitions, so, dont take any of this personal, most people are just "stupid". They need to be educated, and, once they get that "education", they are no longer, stupid. Idiots, on the other hand, are ALWAYS idiots, they never "get" educated, they never learn, they dont "grow", and they stay, constantly, as an idiot. "education", as by my definition, does not lend itself to a "College Degree", or "High School Degree", or even classes, it can come in ANY form. This can be from talking to a friend, or a "tech support" person, or, even, paying someone, to fix a problem. The "education" comes from any source of learning, its what is "done" with that education.

To give an example:

( #1 ) (person requiring help, and asking) I am having a problem finding out what process, or, is it a program (?), which is running on my system? I am sorry, Ms. Cuddles, but, I am "a complete computer illiterate person" when it comes to dealing with these things.

( #2 ) (me) Well, "person #1", its called a process, but, it can also be called a program, no big deal. As for the "illiterate" thing, I wasnt "born" with this information either, so, you are in good company, and, if you stick with it, I am quite sure, that, you will learn it, and be able to handle doing a lot of things on your own. Now, on to your issue... Open up a root Konsole, and type ps auxw at the prompt. That is a complete list of "everything" that is running on your system, you can scroll up and down the list to view everything that was displayed. ALSO... If you want to learn more about what you just typed, you can view the "man pages" on that command, by, typing the following, in that same window, man ps - the "ps" command has a lot of other "switches" or command line arguments that can change the output, or give less, or more, specific, information, for you. You can use that "man" command, for almost all the commands in Linux.

Ok, first of all, lots more "information" was given, than, in most cases, or from some people, but, the "jest" is along the right lines. My first question: Was the person asking for assistance "stupid", or an "idiot" ?

ANSWER: Kind of missleading, actually... the person has the "signs" of be "stupid", they did say the "tell tale" sentence, but, an idiot "could" say the same thing. Whats the answer, you dont know at this point. What you have to do is, speed up time, to say, the next time they have this same problem, or issue, and see what happens. When that time comes, if the person looks for there previous post, or does a search for it, or, do they post the exact same thing, again, and, probably, get the exact same response? Will they use the "knowledge" of looking in the man pages? Will they, if the problem is finding out more about ANY command, will they use the information given on using the man pages, or, will they post a completely new thread on "whats the command option to get everything that is running on my system?" -=- NOW! we have our answer!

Before I get flamed, and my asbestos suit is in for cleaning, on, "but, some people dont learn so quickly" - I will elaborate on the whole "stupid / idiot" analogy. You can have a "dense" stupid person, some people dont "retain", and some people, dont "catch on" very quickly, thats not to say they are an "idiot" - it would come down to what they do, after the initial communication. Lets say, person #1 above, may not be the quickest, or the 500W light bulb in the pack... You might have a second post, from this person, saying something, like, "I forgot how I search again", "I know you gave me the information, but, I cant find it", "what was the thread again?", or even, "How do I get in to the "root" Konsole?" - thats just "learning". Whereas, a idiot, would re-post the exact same post, again, and EVEN, with the "original" post still showing on the page. An idiot would be "completely oblivious" to the fact that they EVER posted a thread previously on the same subject, and make no referance to the fact that one ever existed.

I have to admit, I have been an idiot in some ways, in some subjects, for the life of me, I can not learn the "break-down" of the English Language... I can make sentences, and "what sounds right" stuff, but, ask me to pick out the predicate, or adjective, I might be able to find the NOUN, but... So, I admit it, I am a complete, and utter, IDIOT, when it comes to English. I have taken courses, classes, you name it, and I just cant learn it. I am "stupid" in a few subjects, as well... I was stupid when it came to Windows, but, I learned... I was stupid, when it comes to Knoppix / Kanotix / Linux, but, I AM learning. One of the "biggest" tricks I learned, back in my "pre-1000 post" days, was, using my own posts, from clicking on my nick, and using "show me all the posts for this nick" function - came in real handy on some of the "repeat" problems I kept having. Like ALSA, or getting i2c, or lm-sensors, running on the three systems I have running Linux, now. I was learning, but, I dont think I ever re-posted a repeat thread, I did searching, I did research, I re-read my previous posts - to see if maybe I could "gleam" any new information from my past posts, and, I learned by helping other people with there problems, as well.

I dont mind "hand holding" someone, while they are learning, but, I liken the thought to what a lot of my "College" instructors would always say, within the first two days of the class starting:

"There is no stupid question", to continue, "...except the one that is not asked."

When it comes to "technical support", I like to add my own addendum to that though:

"...but, it IS a stupid question, IF, you have to ask it a SECOND TIME." -=- especially, when you have a hard copy, or search capability, to find your already asked, and answered, previous, question. I dont like redundancy when it comes to a forum, and having the ability to search for previous topics, threads, answers, questions, etc... that just makes a person an idiot, in my own words.

To finish up, I would like to use an example, of my definitions, I stated in this response...

A stupid person would, have a support tech, show up at there house, pay them $500 per hour, and have them show them how to use the "ps" command I gave in my response here. A stupid person, would, probably, write down what the command was, ask tons of additional questions about other command line switches on that command, find out how to get additional information on the command, on there own, and never want to call that technician back, for the rest of there lives.

Whereas, the idiot, would not only, not care about how much they are paying the technician in the first place, not care to ask additional questions, not want to learn anything for this "costly" venture, but, and here is the kicker, WOULD call them back, when they needed to know that EXACT SAME command, again. An idiot, would not settle for calling them back once, but, as many times as they needed to run that command, five, six, seven, initinate, times.

In my case, I wouldnt really care, who I got, if I was that technician. Heck, who DOESNT need that kind of money? I am quite sure, all the techs from the shop, would be killing to get that kind of job. I "would" get a little apathetic to the idiot, after a while, "you know, you can learn this stuff, and save a ton of money, you know?" - kind of thing. As for the stupid person, I'd be just as happy to have a person ask tons of questions, from me, considering the cost, and the issue at hand, I mean, "I dont have that kind of money", and if I had to shell that much out, I'd want to get my "moneys worth" for sure, from it. I had to deal with both of these kinds of people, when I worked for Microsoft, I didnt mind, much, but, people realized that the "free" support fell off after a few months, and then it started to cost them. I just hoped that the "idiots" that were using the "free" support, became "stupid" after it started to "cost them".

I, guess, just by my own wording, I am a stupid person by nature, and not an idiot. I want to learn. In some cases, I need a little "hand holding", and in others, I just need the information, it depends on the situation. I like to learn, and grow, and strive, for knowing what, when, and how, to do things, especially when it comes to computers.

Oh well, I guess this is another "famous" Ms. Cuddles, "heart-felt", and lengthly, posting... Sorry :(
Ms. Cuddles
11-28-2005, 09:56 AM
PlatinumPlus

Re: ABOUT TO GIVE UP!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by knoppixtryer

okay for 2 weeks i have been desperately trying to use knoppix. i love the look and feel and all the custumizations etc. i can fianally see why microsoft has the monopoly. this just does not work! i try to watch a dvd and it tells me i can't even though i installed a dvd player. i try to burn a cd it says i can't i don't have permission! permission from who???? this is my****** computer

......

i am so frustrated yet i still want to use linux on my computer!
wanting to vent
thanks
pat

this is the funniest posts I have seen in years, but what made me laugh the most was how knoppixtryer echoed some of the feelings I've had for some time but have now grown to understand. When I first used Linux it was RedHat and it was because I got a job and was the only IT guy there. I had to support email i.e add, remove users and see why people were not able to send and receive emails. I knew about 5 commands and they got me going (Year 2003). When I left the job that same year sadly I left Linux and that was to be until about 5 months ago. A friend re-introduced me to it telling me about the new desktops and all. I bought an old IBM PII and decided to try it out. He 'installed' Kubuntu by copying files straight from his HDD. I couldn't understand this. It booted all fine but I started getting errors and I wanted to give up. He then copied Knoppix 3.6 and whenever I typed an incorrect command, it gave the error message in German and everything was read-only. These 2 flavors lasted a few days until I got RH9. thats when things became clearer because I soon discovered Linux could be installed 'properly'. I started getting the hang of partioning into swap and the HDA1's and 2s. I started downloading and playing around with different distros. Then I it started to get clearer why we have names like Debian, Slackware etc and why we can talk of Knoppix, Kanotix, DSL etc etc. Then came the issue of network and sound drivers and this lost me for some time until I came to this forum (though the network issue has not been resolved). I was about to give up on Linux again after installing Knoppix 4.0.2 but finally I got the sound going on my PII and PIII and the network working on the PIII but not the PII even though MS can pick my old 10MB card!!! But i won't give up. I am working on luring a few MS fans to Linux and Knoppix in particular with the concept Anything that MS can do Knoppix can do better( except for spreading viruses and the blue screen of death)
11-28-2005, 06:38 PM
Cuddles

Re: ABOUT TO GIVE UP!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlatinumPlus

1 ) I was about to give up on Linux again after installing Knoppix 4.0.2...

2 ) I am working on luring a few MS fans to Linux and Knoppix...

3 ) Anything that MS can do Knoppix can do better( except for spreading viruses and the blue screen of death)

Hmmm, PlatinumPlus,

I think this is a "common" feeling, especially, when dealing with a new thing. If we took a census on "Were you about to give up on Linux?" -=- I would think 95% (plus) would answer "yes". I, myself, had, numerous times, thought of ditching my Knoppix, and run back to what I knew, Win98. The thought still haunts me, even today... I've have, continuously, seen the "benefits" though, of running Kanotix, and from coming from Knoppix.

I, also, think, many of us, are doing the same thing... We "toot our horn" in front of those who, when a virus attacks, or they have to download a security patch, or, they have the whole system crash, we all stand behind them, and say things like: "hmmm, Microsoft... I remember those days... shame 'my' OS doesnt have those kinds of problems anymore." stuff. The "fight" is not in advertising, or marketing, but, being fought on the "personal" level, one-on-one; Friends, family, neighbors, etc...

Anything MS can do, Linux can do better? Not really accurate, but close... Linux is devided, each trying to gain its "place in the Sun". All the Linux Distro's are different, in some, little way, whereas, Windows, in a "general way", is consistant. Windows has spent a lot of time, resources, and money on getting hardware and software for its OS's, whereas, Linux, is trying to use what "Windows" has, for its own usage, a slow process. Windows and Linux have, and get, viri, its just that the "general" amount of people using Linux is smaller than Windows, and, if you want to create a virus that attacks, and kills a system, you arent going to pick on a OS that has a small lions share, you will probably pick on the OS that almost everyone in the World, runs. ( you have more chances of doing damage that way. ) Linux OS's have viri, they just arent as "prolific" as Windows. Linux systems are not "effected" by Windows viri attacks, but, they can "still" spread them. A Windows virus can not damage a Linux system, but, it can be a "carrier" of that virus, to a system that "is" running Windows.

Linux is not, I repeat, not, the pot-o-gold at the end of the rainbow, it is just another OS. When its popularity increases, you will probably see more viri "made" for it, but, with all the "newbie" problems Linux is in struggle with, I dont think that time is any time soon. As for the comparison of the "Blue Screen of Death" that Windows has made famous, Linux is not impervious to this same "thing", it has kernel panic's, kernel patching, apt boo-boo's, Debian Release "splits", and, the last big one, the KDE new release fiasco. I have come to believe that Linux and Windows are about the same comparison, as, an Apple is to an Orange, not much in common. An apple and an orange are; somewhat, round, edable, have an outer covering, one can be eaten, the other, not that pleasant, and, they both come from trees. They dont taste the same, look the same, etc... Same goes for Windows and Linux... They may "look" the same, but, thats about it... They both "run" your computer system, but, each does it differently.

I did my best learning, soul-searching, and, as Jesus was "tempted" by the Devil, I feel I was also "tempted" to go back to Windows, many times, while I was "trying" to learn what, when, and how, to do things in Linux. I had said, many times, "I am going to give up!", and had, many times, pulled out the Win98 install CD, but continued to "pound" on Linux, and not give in to temptation. I think many, as a generalized statement, have had this "time" of temptation. Some have "turned tail", and others have pushed harder, or further, to gain with Linux.

I think the most endearing benefits of Linux are that it is "home grown", and provides the way to "grow your own", if you want to. You can make your own Linux, with Linux. You have a lot more "resources" at your disposal, with Linux, case in point, with Kanotix, you can get "direct" feedback from its creator, Kano, both in its forums, and in the irc channel. You have tons of "freeware", not shareware, or buy-ware, but, freeware, at your feet. And, lastly, Linux is becoming more noticable in the main stream computer world; many hardware manufacturers are providing "linux compatable" products, and post such on the packaging. Windows doesnt provide the ability to create your own "personal" Windows, its resources of getting answers are limited, and, most of the "software" you can get for Windows is either "bait-ware", "shareware", or "buy-ware", not much is just "given" away anymore.

Linux, in a very, small way, is like Apple and Microsoft, used to be... Grown from the Garage, that they all started from. A few of the Linux Distro's have moved up, like "A" & "M" have, but, many more have stayed back, in that garage where they were born. They still have that "cutting edge", that, "close to technology", feeling, and finally, that, "personal touch". Windows is mass-produced, for a "majority" of people, everyone either has to live with what "they" think you want, or go somewhere else. Linux, on the other hand, has a multituide of Distro's, which, any one can find is "just what they want". Windows provides a "cookie cutter" OS, made to what "they" think you want, and, Linux, not only has the "cookie cutter", but, also provides you with a large array of different "cutter forms", but; the ability to make your own personal "cutter", so you can make your own forms.

If you want to "go with the penguin", keep your resources at hand, and dont give in to temptation... You may find yourself hanging on a cross, but, even "that" person rose to a higher place :D

Ms. Cuddles
11-28-2005, 06:59 PM
Harry Kuhman

Re: ABOUT TO GIVE UP!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlatinumPlus

1 ) I was about to give up on Linux again after installing Knoppix 4.0.2...

Given that Knoppix is not intended to be installed, and is well known to cause problems that require a good degree of expertise if you do decide to "install" it, this is not surprising. It's certainly one of the reasons that I feel installing Knoppix should be discouraged and not encouraged and installing a distro intended for hard disk such as Debian should be encouraged instead. The Linux community does not need the bad word of mouth created by thousands of noobs who say "oh, I tried instaling Linux and it was a disaster" when the real problem is that they used software known to cause problems if installed on a hard disk.
11-28-2005, 07:50 PM
Cuddles

Excellent point Harry Kuhman,

Even the "creator" of Knoppix, has stated, even in the Wiki, that Knoppix is not intended to be installed... It is a LiveCD Distro -only-

The person has been quoted to saying, that, even the "hdd installer" was only added due to pressure, and that "they" would never had done it alone. (some of this is "jest", not "pure" quote)

I had done the HDD Install with Knoppix v3.4, and all it took was one Dist-Upgrade, or a "blanket" "upgrade", and my system was "pretty much trashed", to the point of re-install.

If you want headaches, and you ARE a newbie, the biggest thing you could do is install Knoppix. A good "installable" --off-shoot-- of Knoppix is Kanotix, or, Debian Sid. A noobie has enough to worry bout, than to worry bout doing an apt-get dist-upgrade or a apt-get upgrade, already. Not unless your big thing is re-installing, or posting for "how do I un-muck up my install?"

Just my thoughts,
Ms. Cuddles
11-29-2005, 10:02 AM
PlatinumPlus

Re: ABOUT TO GIVE UP!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman

The Linux community does not need the bad word of mouth created by thousands of noobs who say "oh, I tried instaling Linux and it was a disaster" when the real problem is that they used software known to cause problems if installed on a hard disk.

I agree. The reason why I installed Knoppix was that I needed to experiment with MySQL under Linux and I had heard that Knoppix had about the best hardware detection (which was good for my fairly old IBM machines). On the contrary, installing it on HD has been a hit because even my 4yr old son can boot, logon, play his favorite games Enigma 'n' Frozen Bubbles and shutdown without any hassles of searching for and booting from the CD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuddles

If you want headaches, and you ARE a newbie, the biggest thing you could do is install Knoppix. A good "installable" --off-shoot-- of Knoppix is Kanotix

I have installed Kanotix. Fortunately or not both machines are not on the internet and I have not had to do any upgrades. Apart from that, they both behave the same except that Kanotix seems to have less stuff and sits well on my 3GB HD :roll:

Save for my PII's network card, I've not faced a major hurdle (maybe because I don't do much except play around with MySql) I have even proposed that the guys at my Church move over to Knoppix (since they will be using OpenOffice, email and internet). I will be installing on newer machines so I do not forsee the network thingy being an issue BUT if things go haywire . . .

. . . only Harry will know :wink:
12-18-2005, 12:47 AM
newboydrake

I am very new to Linux as are many other people. Although I don't agree with all the sh**'s and f**ks that knoppixtryer puts in to his post, I must admit that I too have found installing any software very frustrating. It has taken me all night trying to get clamav and klamav configured and have even had to re-install knoppix. Dont ask me how I managed to muck it up I'm a newbie.
I realise that the tech heads amongst you must get peeved with us 'computer illiterate' people but to be classed as either stupid or idiots is a bit harsh Cuddles. Some people like myself are just asking for some advice and appreciate all your time and efforts to help.
My friend has a first class degree in Bio-chemical engineering which he passed with honours. he hasnt got a clue about how to install software on Linux or probably Windows come to that. But I'd hardly call him stupid he's got more brainpower than anybody that i know!

In closing would one of you lovely people tell me where to get the best info on how to install software and configure it for knoppix? I would be eternally grateful to you
12-18-2005, 01:12 AM
Harry Kuhman

Quote:

Originally Posted by newboydrake

I am very new to Linux ....

In closing would one of you lovely people tell me where to get the best info on how to install software and configure it for knoppix? I would be eternally grateful to you

The short and simple answer is that Knoppix is a Live CD. It comes with the software that it includes pre-installed. That part is beautiful and simple; you don't have to install any software. You don't even have to insatall Knoppix. If you want more software, well, there's the Knoppix Live DVD. Lots more software there. Still no need to install any.

If you want something not on the CD or DVD, and there is plenty more out there for Linux, much of it available cleanly in the Debian package system, then you would be wise not to try installing it with Knoppix. Knoppix is a Live disc, remember? You can't add to that disc, at least not easily. If, as you say, you are very new to Linux then you likely don't want to fight with the problems that come up when you try to "install" Knoppix to a hard disk. Installing Knoppix is not advised for the Linux beginner. But there is no need to. Knoppix is based on Debian and you can download a Debian install CD and install it instead. This install has become clean and simple in recent years. Then installing more software is a simple matter of using the apt system, rather than the complex set of problems of things breaking that is typical in Knoppix "installs".