Problems downloading 4.0 with BitTorrent

Hi!

I am using the Windows version of the official BitTorrent client (version 4.0.4) to attempt to download the Knoppix 4.0 DVD, and I have failed three times in a row. The first time the download looked like it succeeded, and it has exactly the right file size (3,324,309,504 bytes), but the md5 checksum is different - my file has a checksum of 93bdf7486bcd8c0d4621814b6ea5cea8, whereas, according to KNOPPIX_V4.0DVD-2005-08-16-EN.iso.md5 it should be e6f1f7ca323fec7d9c9ad164e212a4ca.

I got the .torrent file for this first download from the BitTorrent search, and I don't remember exactly which site it pointed me at, but that .torrent file seems to be identical to the one I subsequently downloaded through knoppix.com.

The last two times, the download stopped at around 2.9 GB and 2.3 GB respectively, each time claiming some problem on the harddrive, and suggesting that I might be running the torrent twice (which I wasn't).

I would love to get this DVD burned, and I would love to continue seeding with BitTorrent, but I don't dare to share a file that, for all I know, is bad. Any help/suggestions would be very much appreciated!

Thanks!

You did not mention what version of windows you were running and what file system your drive is formatted with, but looking at your errors, it may not be the issue. I would check through the downloading faqs at: http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Downloading_FAQ and pay particular attention to the information pertaining to Torrents. You appear using the current version of BitTorrent as version 4.04. I have used this version to successfully download several isos with great success. I would also suggest saving the files to a directory that you create somewhere on your drive and NOT on the desktop. For some reason, I had a failure once when I did that and it was the only reason I could come up with. I would also make sure that the remnants of other Torrent programs have been removed and that you are sure to use the Torrent file located here: http://torrent.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/tor...-16-EN.torrent. I have not ever had a corrupted file when it had been downloaded "successfully" by the "Official" BitTorrent Program from www.bittorrent.com. You might want to be sure that there is indeed enough room on your drive for the files and that here are no problems with the drive either, using whatever tools you have to do so. That might mean using the disk check routine in Windows. It's lame, but it might find gross errors if they exist. If you had used a torrent file from a bogus source or installed the torrent programs from who knows where, you may have installed malicious programs onto your machine. I would be sure to check your system for that and run a virus scan also, just in case. If there are other Torrent programs installed, they might not play well together for some reason. I had some errors a year or so ago on a system that had 2 or 3 Torrent programs installed. Uninstalling all of them and then installing the latest official release fixed it. I had stack errors and some files that failed to download completely. If all else fails, you could always try FTP, but BitTorrent is more reliable more often than not. There are currently enough seeders to ensure decent download speeds. You also need to pay attention to what they tell you about the set up of the program, especially about routers and firewalls, etc. Look at the faqs on the official bittorrent site at http://www.bittorrent.com/FAQ.html. If you do revert to FTP, be sure to do so from the mirrors at: http://www.knopper.net/knoppix-mirrors/index-en.html. Most of this information is contained in the downloading faqs pages mentioned near the top of my post.

There has been mention of a few bugs in the 4.01 DVD and a 4.02 version has been promised for release sometime in the near future, possibly before the V 4 CD. I have not encountered any major issues with the current DVD, but I am also not that involved in my use of Knoppix. I am mostly a casual user due to curiosity. The issues mentioned did not appear to hamper the use of the DVD for most of what I plan to do with it. You can find more on the subject here: http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Bugs/4.0.1DVD. You might want to wait until that release to download it if you want, but it would be great to get your torrent download working before then.

Some basic information about BitTorrent pertaining to the downloads and verification. The program apparently checks the progress and verifies the files as they are downloaded and have not yet had any issues with files that were downloaded by that process. I rarely feel the need to double check a file that has been downloaded by a valid torrent program. I would be sure to use the verification files that are downloaded or provided by the torrent if you do, and be sure to do the verification process correctly. I have used MD5Summer with great success, but it is sometimes confusing about which check files you might be using. Be sure that the correct files are selected during the process. You can look over the information in the downloading faqs link above. It is well written, clear, and detailed, but slightly dated since some of the versions and programs might have changed a little since it was written. One thing that might make a difference is that you should use the MD5 files that apply to the file that you downloaded and obtained along with the file from that source. I might assume it would be the same for ftp and torrent, but it may not be the case. It might turn out that the first file you downloaded is indeed a valid file.

There is a wealth of information addressing torrent downloads in this forum and doing a few searches might find more for you. Look in any post that pertains to the DVD, especially under News and Knoppix DVD. There are a few that pertain to the issues you are having.

Let us know if you are successful or not and if the issue remains unresolved. Try to be reasonably specific with error message and system details.

Thanks for the response.
I have actually spent several days searching these forums, and the wild-n-woolly web in general, as well as reading the download faq several times, prior to posting.

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Originally Posted by ckamin

You did not mention what version of windows you were running and what file system your drive is formatted with, but looking at your errors, it may not be the issue.

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Windows 2k, C: drive is NTFS, drive I'm downloading to is FAT32, with 15 GB available. I have not yet run the suggested disk-check procedures, but will do so.

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Originally Posted by ckamin

I would also suggest saving the files to a directory that you create somewhere on your drive and NOT on the desktop.

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Do you mean the .torrent file (which I currently have on my desktop), or the directory for the ISO (which I have been putting on another drive altogether)?

I have never had another Torrent program installed, so there's no remnants there. I didn't run anything from my first download, so no viruses from there.
I started with FTP, and that failed several times (due to my computer randomly rebooting in the middle of a 3 day download...), which is why I switched to Torrent in the first place.

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Originally Posted by ckamin

One thing that might make a difference is that you should use the MD5 files that apply to the file that you downloaded and obtained along with the file from that source. I might assume it would be the same for ftp and torrent, but it may not be the case.

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Both md5 sums are the same (from Torrent and from ftp) - that was the first thing I checked upon my initial failure, and I am quite certain I checked the right file's md5 sum - about 7 or 8 times, with 4 different md5 tools, each of which gave me exactly the same non-matching answer. Out of curiosity, what is the checksum of your copy of the 4.0 ISO?

Cheers.

I agree with ckamin, a failure of this nature with Bittorrent is, well, calling it uncommon wold not be strong enough.

I downloaded mine with 4.0.3 and had no problems. Others are reporting good results with 4.0.4. Previous versions are known to have some issues with files over 2 gig.

My first thought was to run scan disk or some other disk tester program. I still think it's worth doing, but I'm not really expecting that it will find a problem.

Let me ask a question, what md5 software are you using to test the iso? I'm using md5summer and I get the expected results. I'm wondering if the file that you have is fine, but some other md5 program could be having problems with files over 2 gigs in size? Even Microsoft's own networking software has problems with files over 2 gig, at least in Win98 (even though the FAT32 in Win98 supports 4 gig files). I have also just checked my ISO with the program md5.exe from toast442.org and it passes the test too. So if you are using either of these then I doubt that is your problem. But let us know what you used, and if it was not one of these two then check again with one of them.

Do you use Quickpar and par2 files? I can send you a PAR2 file that I created for the 4.0.1DVD-EN ISO. That would tell us a lot about the nature of your failure, since it tests the file "block by block" (for this simple par2 file I used 10 meg blocks). And if you only have one or two blocks bad I could also get you a repair par file that will fix your download!

I used a command line md5 program in DOS, the one that comes with CygWin (both of which are from the GNU fileutils package), md5.exe from Toast442.org, and md5summer v1.2.0.5 (the most recent one yesterday). I had worried about the 2 gig limit, too, but if you think tht md5summer doesn't have that limit, then I'm not worried anymore.

I don't know what Quickpar is. And where did you get the 4.0.1DVD-EN ISO from? I have only seen the 4.0, plus a patch for 4.0.1.

I am currently suspecting a disk problem, as an attempt to start a brand new torrent kept on failing right at the beginning, with an error about the changelog file not existing. Telling it to save to another partition has allowed it to start up, so we'll see how it runs... And we'll see what Norton Disk Doctor and Windows CheckDisk have to say about the other partition...

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Originally Posted by mysh

I don't know what Quickpar is. And where did you get the 4.0.1DVD-EN ISO from? I have only seen the 4.0, plus a patch for 4.0.1.

I am currently suspecting a disk problem, as an attempt to start a brand new torrent kept on failing right at the beginning, with an error about the changelog file not existing. Telling it to save to another partition has allowed it to start up, so we'll see how it runs... And we'll see what Norton Disk Doctor and Windows CheckDisk have to say about the other partition...

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Bad choice of terms on may part (and some confusion created by Klaus) The only official English DVD release so far is called KNOPPIX_V4.0DVD-2005-08-16-EN.iso, but it's the 4.0.1 release when you look at what Klaus calls it (such as in the wiki bug section, where he has been active recently). So I don't think we are talking about different files. And my md5 checksum is what you posted that it should be (meaning the files are the same), assuming that you didn't apply any "patch" after you downloaded it. I have used no patch.

We've already exchanged private messages, I'll see what comes of that. It certainly may be a disk problem, although I wish you had a completely different CPU to try it on. You have the md5 of my torrent file now, so you should have confirmed that we are looking at the same file there. And I did use 4.0.3 of BT while you used 4.0.4 but I really don't think that is it. I tend to agree that the disk drive sounds like a likely culprit. But did you try restarting BitTorent and let it check the current file? BT will check the file for you (based on what's in the torrent, and should get the bad sements for you from other peers). I don't know how BT could not at least try to repair the file for you. If there are disk problems that prevent a restart but let you save to a different partition then if all of the downloaded files had been moved or better yet coppied to that partition then the repair would have likely happened.

Please keep me informed, And don't delete the bad iso if you get a good one; it would be helpful if you could compare the two and see what the differences are. It might even turn out that you are starting to see a memory failure (which can contribute to a corrupted disk structure even if the disk hardware is good). I'll keep you posted on that new par2 file also.

MYSH,

You are in good hands with Harry Kuhman. He has tons more experience with Knoppix than I do. There are a few other things that might be pertinent, so I will add my three cents worth to the mix and get out of the way.

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Do you mean the .torrent file (which I currently have on my desktop), or the directory for the ISO (which I have been putting on another drive altogether)?

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The torrent file can go almost anywhere you want. The large iso file and the others that come along with it are what I was referring to. I would also suggest that if you have an external drive available, you could use that to save the files onto. Also, there may be some issues with FAT32 partitions larger than 32 Gig with Win 2K and XP. I have experienced issues mainly with XP, but remember having some restrictions in Win2K also. You mentioned having 15 Gig left, but it may be important to look at the total size of the Non NTFS partition. If it is an external drive, a faulty controller can be an issue causing a corrupted disc. It happened to me a couple of months back on a cheap firewire enclosure. It eventually rendered the disk unreadable. It only acted up with large files transferred from another machine. Bad external cables can be an issue also.

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Out of curiosity, what is the checksum of your copy of the 4.0 ISO?

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I am currently on the Gulf Coast and do not have the files with me on this machine. I was somewhat limited on what I could carry with me and am doing this almost by candlelight. I did not even bother to check the iso since the Torrent downloaded correctly. I would gladly run a check and send you the results if the files were here. The main issue with your checksums could be running a command line program in the first place. I am not familiar with the program you have used, but some "DOS" type programs seem to be limited to 2 Gig files. I see that you have tried MD5Summer and I seem to have had good results with it, so I would trust it to some extent.

I have also heard of people having issues with their ISP when downloading large files. For some reason they are not successful in downloading.

I will agree with Harry that it sounds like a hardware issue...memory, disc, cable, or controller related. I would verify that and go from there. It sounded somewhat like that from the beginning, but more so now since you are having problems in BOTH Torrent AND FTP . You mentioned spontaneous or random reboots and that also points to hardware. Power supplies are good suspects in that regard. I would add that to the list to check.

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Originally Posted by ckamin

He has tons more experience with Knoppix than I do.

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Actually, I don't. I still just poke around the CDs or DVDs a little, and have installed Debian to one system (its no longer as hard of an install as people think and is much more stable and clean than trying to "install" Knoppix to a hard disk). But this isn't a Knoppix or Linux problem, it's a file corruption problem before Knoppix can ever be run.

I've been in contact with mysh by private message. I don't like to do that, I would rather post as much as I can here so that it might help others too, but I needed to use the private message feature to send him a URL to a set of pars that I had made for him (the system used wouldn't work if everyone or even many people here tried to download those pars). He has reported back sucess and it has been determined that the problem is not a BitTorrent problem at all, rather is is some sort of hardware issue with his system (I've made some suggestions on tests he can run to try to determine the actual nature of the problem, but this is what was causing some intermitent failures in disk reading). I've asked him to post back here to tell us as much as he can about the actual cause of the problem and clear the good name of BitTorrent. I'm only posting because he hasn't acted on the message yet and I wnated to save others unneeded effort in trying to resolve something that is now working.

I get the same exact problem as Mysh. I have Win98SE and Fat32 Filing system. I doubt it's a file size limit, I think Fat32 can support up to 4GB files. I have plenty of free hard disk, so I know that's not the problem. I have Bit Torrent 4.0.4. I'll try to finish the download after the error (re click the torrent) but after a while it just gives me the same problem again. I may retry it with Azureus.

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Originally Posted by Corvette

I get the same exact problem as Mysh....

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mysh said that his entire system system kept crashing durning the download, he now has a disk partition that is giving him problems and he couldn't even restart BitTorrent on that partition, but he was able to download the iso to another partition. He also said that the file he downloaded was the exact right size but the med5 checksum didn't match.

Do you really have the exact same problem as mysh? Did your system crash during the download? Did you get an ISO file of the exact right size but the md5 checksum is wrong? If so, I have some par2 files that will likely fix it and save you from downloading the iso again. But it's not clear to me that you have the exact same problem.

"The last two times, the download stopped at around 2.9 GB and 2.3 GB respectively, each time claiming some problem on the harddrive, and suggesting that I might be running the torrent twice (which I wasn't). "

Just that part (none of the other parts). I tried Azureus (the first time) and it reached 99% completion (an improvement) and crashed (illegal operation). So I reloaded Azureus and it no longer shows as downloading (hopefully it finished). I think the problem is the BiT Torrent Client (not exactly sure) but hopefully it'll work. I'll check the MD5 checksum on it and see if it gives any errors. Thanks.

It keeps giving me the same problem (using Azureus). It would check the file and after checking it, determine it's incorrect or something, and keep trying to fix it (I think). It's just stuck at about 99.9 percent done and never finishes. The MD5 checksum doesn't match.

I'll send you by private message a URL to a par2 set. Use quickpar (Google search if you don't already know what it is) and run it against the bas ISO. If there are enough recovery blocks to fix your ISO then quickpar can repair it, otherwise you'll at least know how bad the damage is.

What version(s) of BitTorrent were you using? I downloaded the torrent with 4.0.3 of BitTorrent on an old Win98 system with FAT partitions and had no problems, obviously many other BitTorrent users are having good results too. It would be interesting to know what is going wrong in your case.

Harry Kuhman wrote:

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Actually, I don't. I still just poke around the CDs or DVDs a little, and have installed Debian to one system

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I have done some considerable poking and prodding of these discs myself, but I have seen many of your posts in this forum, and along with several others, you all seem to have a pretty good handle on what's going on. Besides freely giving your time to help others, it's a great way to learn beyond the basics. Not to blow any smoke up where the sun doesn't shine, but I have learned quite a bit from lurking in this forum and have yet to fail to gain at least something everytime I visit. I myself have some experience outside of Linux, but seem to be learning enough to get it up and running to do some routine tasks. It's an adventure and keeps me from getting bored and going out of my skull, while going through the daily routines, although I have recently been deluged (volunteered) with enough work to keep me busy 24/7 for the next Millenium or so. I apologize for not posting again sooner, but it is the first chance I've had in a few days for "personal" stuff, like sleeping, eating, etc.

Now to get back on track. One other issue that I failed to mention before, regarding the spontaneous or random booting that MYSH had encountered. Excessive heat can also be a cause and that can be caused by poor airflow/cooling in the case, fans mounted to push air in the wrong direction, case fans that have failed, CPU heatsink/fans that have failed or become misaligned/dislodged, or a unit that is housed in an enclosure that is improperly vented. Dust or "Pet" hairs can collect on filters, fans, and heatsinks and seriously affect their efficiency as well. A good cleaning may be just the ticket. A Vacuum, a brush, and some compressed air have "fixed" quite a few systems with mysterious symptoms for me in the past. Especially those that appear to contain more hair than the pet currently does.

If memory fails while testing with something like Memtest86, a quick check of the BIOS settings and possibly less agressive memory settings can resolve it. Also mis-matched or dissimilar memory and socket metal types can be a cause. IE: gold plated memory module contacts and tin plated contacts on the MB. Not usually a problem these days, but it occasionally was years ago. Sometimes just removing and reseating the memory can resolve it, but it may return in time if it was the cause.

I suspect that the concerns that were encountered here by MYSH are probably a hardware/configuration issue but will provide the following anyway: Failed attempts at FTP downloads can sometimes be caused by using poor tools to download with. I use WS_FTP_Pro in Windows and have had excellent results, although I do usually check the MD5s of the larger or more important files. I have had very few errors if it is done right. Unfortunately it is not usually a free program. I am certain that there are many other good FTP programs that are either free or relatively inexpensive. Internet Explorer just doesn't seem to cut it for me and neither does FireFox, for files as large as these CD/DVD isos. I more recently just seem to prefer BitTorrent for these files, especially when the "seeders" outnumber the "leechers" like they do on the Knoppix torrents lately. The software has evolved to the point where it is quite reliable and stable. I have had great results myself with the BitTorrent version 4.0.4 and have been made aware of several successful downloads of the V 4.0.1 DVD with it. I did have numerous "stack" errors with the beta version 4.1.4, but did not encounter any after uninstalling it and going to 4.0.4 a few days later when it was first released. When a popular file is in high demand, the demand can bring the FTP mirrors down to a crawl, but more people participating in a Torrent seems to be a good thing. It is usually well worth the trouble to get it working.

I guess that puts me in this for the entire nickel now and not just my three cents worth as before. I would like to know what eventually resolves the issue. It sounds like it will be one for the textbooks. Please keep me posted on the results, good OR bad.

Thanks again!

Thanks so much for the file. I'll try it now and see if it works. Thanks again.

I'm downloading the 50 megabyte file now. The other link you gave me says, "File Transfer: Unavailable". Thanks for your help. Hopefully this can fix the file. Maybe I need to defrag my computer or something.

Ok, there are a bunch of Par files inside this ZIP. How do I use them to repair my ISO file?

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Originally Posted by Corvette

Ok, there are a bunch of Par files inside this ZIP. How do I use them to repair my ISO file?

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It's been mentioned several times. Quickpar is the program, put the par2s in the same directory as the iso, it will determine how many blocks are needed for repair and give you the option to repair if it has enough repair blocks.

Thanks. It says it needs 112 more blocks, but I'm not able to click on repair. I wonder why (it's not clickable).

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Originally Posted by Corvette

Thanks. It says it needs 112 more blocks, but I'm not able to click on repair. I wonder why (it's not clickable).

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It's because you would need a lot more par2 repair blocks than I computer and uploaded. You don't have enough data to create the final file based on how much of your file is goos and the number of repair blocks you have, so the button can't function. I made each block 1,152,000 bytes and uploaded about 60 blocks (if I recall right). This was plenty for the purpose that I made the par2 set (Mysh's problem) and it did allow him to repair his download. But the corruption that you have is obviously much different. If I had computed enough blocks I would have to upload another 112 blocks to you for Quickpar to have enough information to make the repairs to your system. Since I didn't computer enough, I don't think that I can make more now that would work with the old ones, I think that I would have to make a new par set with 112 block plus the number of blocks you already have (I think that number is 60,) or about 200 total megs of data. It would also take me several hours just to computer that large a par set for a 3.09 gig ISO. Since I'm about to go to bed I couldn't even begin the upload until some time late Thursday night (can't do it Thursday evening because I have some other commitmints for my bandwidth Thursday). Looking at the current BitTorrent download speeds, you would certainly get a BitTorrent download before that.

Sorry, we tried, but at least now you know the extent of the damage to your file. Sorry the par set wasn't enough in your case. I would suggest that you try another BitTorrent download.

Thanks so much for your help. I'll try to download it from another torrent (if I can find one, I only found the one on the knoppix website, but I didn't really look that hard for one). Thanks again.

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Originally Posted by Corvette

Thanks so much for your help. I'll try to download it from another torrent (if I can find one, I only found the one on the knoppix website, but I didn't really look that hard for one). Thanks again.

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I don't think you want another torrent; there's only one official one for the Knoppix DVD's (one each for English and German), and those are the ones that are well seeded and will download fast. Plus they are well know to deliver good files, who knows what you get from some lamer who has set up "his own torrent"? It's unfortunate that you had a bad result with the torrent, but not a shock if windows crashed or some similar problem struck during the download. Your best bet would be to use the same torrent (or if you want get it again from the "get Knoppix" link near the top of this page) and download the files again to a different directory. As long as you are using 4.0.3 or 4.0.4 of the BitTorrent client it should work (there are indeed known problems with prior versions, and I can't speak for the quality of the 4.1.x betas or other BitTorrent clients).

I deleted the ISO and went to re - download it with Azureus It reached about 99% and gave me the same problem (over and over again). So I decided to mess with the options and came across an option (under Transfer) labeled Priortize first and last piece of file(s). It was checked (by default). I decided to uncheck it and let Azureus try to fix the Iso. IT WORKED!!! I checked the ISO with an MD5 checksum and it matched. Thanks everyone for your help.

Well, everything works great except for Knoppix 4.0 doesn't detect my network card (and hence my internet connection). None of the Knoppix versions detected it (at least none of the ones I've tried) and many linux boot CD distributions don't as well. Some of the boot cd distributions that do are Kanotix, morphix, and Trinity Rescue Kit. Red Hat Linux 9 also detected it (though that's not a Linux Boot CD). Some of the ones that don't are Adios, Slax, and Echelon (and many others). I've tried configuring it through xterm (well not with 4.0 but with previous versions) and through different tools that comes with the CD's. My network card is built into my motherboard and according to Winipcfg it's a VIA Rhine III Management Adapter. I was wondering if Knoppix can add this device to their next edition of Knoppix DVD. Thanks.