not connected to internet

hiya

linux-newbie here, so please be gentle. :lol:

i have a dvd with knoppix 4.0.1 which im trying to use with my pII 350 mhz win98 computer. i can boot it, which is really cool, but it will not connect to the internet. when i try to configure adsl it says the access concentrator of your provider did not respond :?: and on firefox it says webpage could not be found. i have a 2MB adsl connection, and the network card is recognized as 3c59x (i have 3c 900B-Combo).

sorry if this is not enough info, i will gladly provide more if i know what to look for. please please help, i want to use linux! thanks.

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Originally Posted by billabill

--- and on firefox it says webpage could not be found. i have a 2MB adsl connection, and the network card is recognized as 3c59x (i have 3c 900B-Combo).

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Sounds like you may be helped by my generic answer #4.

Thanks Harry, I will get myself a router. Forgot to say that I use a zyxel prestige 600 series modem also, but maybe that makes no difference? :oops:

BAB

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Originally Posted by billabill

Forgot to say that I use a zyxel prestige 600 series modem also, but maybe that makes no difference?

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It does make a difference in that many newer DSL modems include built in routers. Some times they are there but not enabled. I don't know about your particular modem; I'll leave you to research that.

Without a router you need to run PPPoE software (or other protocol software in parts of Europe). While Knoppix has PPPoE support I've never used it and as I said I really can't understand trying to run without a router any more.

Thanks again Harry. It seems my modem (660h) does not have a router built in, while some other zyxel modems have (660hw,662hw). So I will buy a router. Anything I should know when buying a router or can I just buy a router? :lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by billabill

Anything I should know when buying a router or can I just buy a router? :lol:

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Many routers have somewhat different features, so there are reasons to pick one over another. But if you are new to this and don't have particular needs then I would shop price. There are often rebate deals that make some routers so cheap that you can afford to get one as a starter router and learn more, then later get a more expensixe router with special features (such as vpn support). Many low cost routers now have wireless support, even higher speed 802.11g support, and my personal choice would be to buy one with wireless support even if I didn't have a current use for it if it costs no more than a wired router. If not getting a rebate special then I would also suggest that most router manuals can be found on-line and reading over the manuals for your canidates may give you an idea of the differences between units (but you'll better appreciate these differences after you start using a router). I'll personally say that I have not liked the Belkin routers that I've used, but other models may not have the problems I've seen in the ones I have used. I do like trhe featutres of most DLink routers, but avoid the now discontinued DL514. And you can always post back here asking about certain models that you are considering. You'll also find that there are a lot of very active discussion groups broken out by vendor at broadbandreports.com where the group members are quite active in giving out there experience with various router models.

I've tended to see the best deals lately at CompUSA or Staples. Both start their new sale cycle on Sunday.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman

I really can't understand trying to run without a router any more.

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It's easy to understand :-) in my country, my town, I can buy router:

D-Link DSL-502T Ethernet/USB ADSL Router for 58.00 euros or Ethernet modem
D-Link DSL-300T Ethernet, modem only, for 18.80 euros.

I run PPPoE softver from Linux and have no problem with ADSL conection. I am aware that it's a kind of "emergency solution", but for me, for the moment it is the only solution.

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Originally Posted by tdjokic

D-Link DSL-502T Ethernet/USB ADSL Router for 58.00 euros or Ethernet modem
D-Link DSL-300T Ethernet, modem only, for 18.80 euros.

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The combo DSL modems and routers are actually much more expensive than that here, you're getting great bargans on DSL modems. Stand alone routers have become extremely inexpensive here. I bought my first simple 4 port wired router about 6 years ago for over $100 US. Now we can frequently buy wired/wireless routers for under $5 after rebate. Since none of these devices are made in this country I can't understand why they would not be available at similar prices in Europe, but I do know from other conversations that such is not always the case. Still, even at my over $100 price the router that I bought was a bargan when one considers both the utility it provides and the added security of a NAT firewall. I certainly would never run any Windows system on a high speed connection without a router, and it's not a bad idea to protect your Linux systems too.

Thanks for the info Harry :D

I have this local computer store and they usually have "just what i need" so i, hoping ill be lucky this time too. Or i will try and find something on the net. I'm really looking forward to using knoppix with internet, and with my new router. I will check out some routers on your recommendation and post back if (when?) i have some problems. Thank you very much for your help.

edit: sorry i didn't see the last two posts, but i guess my answer still applies.

Is this your 660h?

http://www.i-tech.com.au/products/84..._2___MODEM.asp

ZyXEL P-660H series is an all-in-one affordable router, compatible with high-speed ADSL, ADSL2 and ADSL2+ interfaces over existing copper lines. ....

Maybe you have router already?

hi tdjokic,

wow maybe i already have a router! yes that is my modem, but i did not think it had/was a router. on my modem it reads "ADSL 2+ 4-port Gateway" and it never occured to me that "Gateway" could mean router. (does it?) so how can i find out if i already have a router? i feel im getting closer and closer to the knoppix exerience here.....


update: i reread my manual for the modem and it says that of the four LAN ports only one is for computers (which i now use), two others for future services and one for digital TV. to say that im comfused will be an understatement. so now i think that i do *not* have router and that i will need to buy one. sorry for being such a n00b, im really trying to learn and i appreciate your help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by billabill

wow maybe i already have a router! yes that is my modem, but i did not think it had/was a router. on my modem it reads "ADSL 2+ 4-port Gateway" and it never occured to me that "Gateway" could mean router. (does it?) so how can i find out if i already have a router? i feel im getting closer and closer to the knoppix exerience here.....


update: i reread my manual for the modem and it says that of the four LAN ports only one is for computers (which i now use), two others for future services and one for digital TV. to say that im comfused will be an understatement. so now i think that i do *not* have router and that i will need to buy one. sorry for being such a n00b, im really trying to learn and i appreciate your help.

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Don't appologize about being a noob, I consider myself pretty experienced with home routers but I'm unclear on what you have. The discription of ports for TV and "future services" is pretty strange. In general a router should not care what is connected to any port, it should just be an ethernet connection to it. This might change slightly if they have built in certain port forwarding rules, but one would hope that this is user configurable.

Here are a few things that you can do:

Under Windows, look to see what IP address window thinks you have. Do not use websites like checkip.dyndns.org or www.grc.com to determine the IP address; look at ipconfig under Windows (reached by the command line). If it is a 192.168.xxx.xxx address or a 10.xxx.xxx.xxx address then you have a NAT router. If it is the same address that the above URLs give you then you do not have a NAT router, or at least the NAT feature is not enabled.

See if you can bring up a web pages of router configuration information at 192.168.0.1 or 192.168.1.1 or 192.168.2.1 or 10.0.0.1 by putting those addresses into your browser (the third digit will match what ipconfig reports). If so you can use that setup information to configure and learn about your router.

Try plugging the computer's ethernet cable into a different port and reboot the computer. See if other ports let you get a Internet connection (they will on a normal NAT router, any local port can be used by any computer, generally the only special port is the one that goes to the modem and in your case the modem is in the same box so there is no port that goes to the modem).

hi harry

i tried rebooting from two of the other ports (2:digital tv,3:future service), none worked. could not connect to the internet. from ipconfig i got a different address from the ones you posted, and it was the same as from the two websites. so i got the same ip from all three.

i didn't understand what you meant about the router configuration information, i tried putting those numbers in my browser but nothing happened. no webpages found. im sure i did something wrong here...

so maybe its like you say that i really have a router but that it is configured by my ISP to use only one port? weird....

knoppix:2
billabill:0

next time knoppix...... whoahahahahha :twisted:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by billabill

hi harry

i tried rebooting from two of the other ports (2:digital tv,3:future service), none worked. could not connect to the internet. from ipconfig i got a different address from the ones you posted, and it was the same as from the two websites. so i got the same ip from all three.

i didn't understand what you meant about the router configuration information, i tried putting those numbers in my browser but nothing happened. no webpages found. im sure i did something wrong here...

so maybe its like you say that i really have a router but that it is configured by my ISP to use only one port? weird....

knoppix:2
billabill:0

next time knoppix...... whoahahahahha :twisted:

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Yes, this seems to be a very strange device. If you get the same IP address with ipconfig under windows as checkip.dundns.org shows you then you are not behind a NAT router. This being the case I would still suggest getting an inexpensive NAT router. It's not at all clear to me what you device is really doing beyond the normal modem function.

Harry,

yes i got the same ip from all three, no kidding. it's strange, im sure the modem has been brainwashed by my ISP to only work with their setup on windows (i got the modem from my isp).
in the manual for the modem it says that i can *only* use port one for computers, not the other three, and that if i want to use more than one computer i will need a router. so i guess it's the case i do not have a router after all. i will buy a router and see if i can get it to work. maybe ill be back on this thread to tell y'all how it went. :lol:

thanks for your help and patience.

d-link di-604

http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=62

will this router do the trick you think?

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Originally Posted by billabill

d-link di-604
will this router do the trick you think?

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It will do the job. I know someone that has one. It's an oK router, not the best but better than many. It's wired only, not wireless, so I hope that you are getting it at a very good price. But if you are happy with the price then yes it certainly will do the things we have discussed a router doing.

The link that you give leads to a copy of the product manual. I suggest that you read it before buying to get a better idea of what features this router has and what it does not have. Also note that there are multiple versions of the 604 with different procesors and firmware. I'm assuming that you are talking about the newest Rev E hardware and firmware, but that's only a guess.

It is only fair to mention that just Friday there was an article in Slashdot about a problem with many D-link routers. Seems they poorly designed the way they pick time servers and use some servers that they should not, with the list of servers used hard coded in the router firmware. And they seem unwilling to correct this even though it likely will cause at least one server to be shut down. This router is one of the known problem routers in this area. I'm not saying that this is a good enough reason not to get the router, just that anyone considering buying a Dlink should know about it.

thx harry,

maybe the D-Link DI-704P is a better deal? it's about the same price, and it wasn't mentioned specifically in the article from slashdot. about the specifications, all i really need is to connect to internet with linux, no wireless needed, and only one desktop computer.

what do you think, should i go for it? 8)

http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=1&pid=63

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Originally Posted by billabill

maybe the D-Link DI-704P is a better deal?...
what do you think, should i go for it?

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just a few quick observations: Although the 704 might not be listed in the open letter, my guess is that it would be affected too, it seems closely related to the other router. I couldn't find a manual for the 704 at that link (which seems strange), so its hard to do a side by side comparison. The 704 seems about the same except that it includes a networked print server, but that's very likely something I would never use (that print server is not Linux supported and, if I'm running Windows, a windows box will share it's printer with other Windows systems just fine, And it only supports parallel printers, while the last few I bought were usb only. I see no reason to add extra complexity with the print server). If you can find the 704 manual I would list features side by side and see if you give up anything to get the print server. I guess at the exact same price I would take the one with the print server over one without it even though I don't expect I would use it, but if I had to pay any more or give up any other feature to get the print server I would stick with the 604,

i couldn't wait anymore so i ordered the 604 just now. hopefully i will be able to use knoppix in one or two days. exciting! thanks again for your help. :D i'll be back when (if!) i have some more problems.

knoppix:2
billabill:1

getting closer.....

the router is working, but only with win98, not with knoppix.

help

i'm not giving up quite yet lol, so if anyone has any ideas for a software solution that would be cool. Another thing: i tried the Kubuntu 5.10 Live distro, and had the same problem. the distro was working except for the browser. if any1 has any suggestions on how i can get this to work i would appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by billabill

the router is working, but only with win98, not with knoppix.

help

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We have no information in what you posted about what is actually happening. You are much more likely to get help if you give us details about the nature of "not working", including output from all the usual suspects like ifconfig and netcardconfig, than if you just say "it's not working, help".

Ok sorry about that. what i meant was that i have the same problem with the router installed as i had without the router. i boot with knoppix (or Kubuntu 5.10 Live) and everything seems to work except the connection to internet. when start the firefox it says website cannot be found. how do i get the output from iconfig and netcardconfig etc?

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Originally Posted by billabill

how do i get the output from iconfig and netcardconfig etc?

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The simple answer is that you run those commands and make notes about what it said ("I got some kind or error message" is not a good or useful note). If you have experience with Linux you can send the output to a file and then copy the file to your post, but that is more than I expect from many of the users here. ifconfig is run from a shell (command prompt window). netcardconfig can be run from the menu or from a shell prompt. The less information that you give us the less likely we will be able to help, the more information that you post about the problem and your hardware, the better your chances of getting helpful feedback.

thanks Harry,

ok i got it to work finally. all i did was run netcardconfig and answered yes to the question: use dhcp broadcast. then got the message: dhcp broadcast from device eth0 OK. auto lo eth0. and now it is working! unbelievable!

could it be that this command *netcardconfig" was all i needed? i will try a few more times to see if maybe i was just lucky....

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Originally Posted by billabill

could it be that this command *netcardconfig" was all i needed?

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Knoppix normally does an automatic netcardconfig during the boot process, which is why for most users Knoppix doesn't even need the netcardconfig to be done manually at all. It would be interesting to watch the boot process closely (I think there is even a log that you could check) and see if you can see what is going wrong during the boot that causes you to need this at all. But yes, it seems like all you needed was netcardconfig.

during the boot process i noticed it said *netw dev eth0 detected ....(backgrounding) *. when the boot is finished and i try to start fx it cant connect. and when i run netcardconfig i get the question about dhcp and answer yes it says failed. so when i try again and this time answer no i get ip and mask and more filled in and i can just click to confirm these values. after this when i try fx it does still not connect, but when i run netcardconfig again and this time answer yes i get: *dhcp broadcast from device eth0 OK.*

so it seems i must run netcardconfig two times and first answer NO to the question about DHCP and then run it a second time answering YES to the same question after i have confirmed ip and mask etc to get connected to the internet.