putting knoppix on a diet!
Hello and I would like to thank Mr. Knopper for showing the linux community what is possible. I very much enjoy booting my box with Knoppix and getting away from my "other" operating system.
I know that knoppix is a demonstration of how much software can be crammed on a cdr that will boot on about any pc without a hitch. I know people are working on smaller versions that will fit on a 3.5 inch cdr. I am a linux rookie and as I look through all the programs installed it looks like most of it can be omitted.
Knoppix-lite or whatever it should be called needs to have one program for each popular activity. It should be modeled as far as programs that are installed goes like Mac OSX. I am stating that Apple spent alot of effort to include enough software to actually do something right out of the box. Trim out all the fat and leave software that the average Joe will use.
I know I am on a soapbox but I think the linux universe needs to start contracting back together. There are too many distros. There are too many people re-inventing the wheel. My dream is of a linux that can boot and install like knoppix, the great looks and simplicity of Lycoris/Xandros/Lindow and free like debian.
in response to doing it myself
First of all, I made no mention of wanting anyone to do anything. I have been following the topic of creating a small iso of knoppix. I did thank Mr. Knopper for such a fine job. I did pose a question why a 240 meg distro is still so obese. Why all the junk? A visit to Mr. Tech2k's ironically spurred me to write my first post. I cannot believe all the stuff he is cramming in there.
Maudite
Huge distro's and building a better mousetrap
Hmm, this seems to look like it's going the way i am going now...
on my site i've started work on a KnopBase distro, 72 megs and everything is ripped from it (well, everything should be when i'm finished with it). The whole point is that distro's should get LESS bloated instead of more, and this fits quite nicely: have a very (VERY) small base distribution (just like debian-base), and just be able to install to hdd and autodetect the configuration.
Now, KnopBase only has the knoppix console and a minimum of tools. What would an average user want with it? not much. But together with an enhanced tasksel (or multisession cd's?) you should be able to build your own distro/iso without too much cruft. Want a Server distro? get base and add a server-track. want a hardware-recovery distro? get base and add a recovery-track. Want a very light desktop distro? well, you get my point (tasksel was made for this purpose, but somehow it never got used much... :)
Now this might not look like anything earth-shocking, but i'm looking into a way for people to easily create their own tracks (without remastering their cd, just burning multiple tracks). The added flexibility should prove very valuable, the 600+megs of spare room to do what you want will be a relief, the speed of creating a distro will be greater and the system requirements for remastering will be a whole lot less (i understand tech's point, but i also want to be able to build a custom iso on my laptop, and not only on my blazing fast workstation at home ;)
Oh well, messing about like always, after KnopBase (gotta think up some new, creative names :) has been decimated i'll work out that multisession idea. anyone willing to give me a hand is more than welcome (idea's, playing around with it yourself, sarcasm, the regular...)
Cheers!
alex
Alextreme.............sounds like a plan to me
The multitrack idea is facinating. I saw on /. some time ago about a sound studio distro. I could imagine making a sound studio track would be within reason for your knopbase. I myself am facinated with the idea of a lightweight gui track. The window manager must be fast and efficient and themeable (wow, cool word). I need to look on the web for some data. Surely somebody has done some kind of study on what the average person uses his computer for. From this I would like to include the best apps for the job. Web browser, email, ftp, chat, mp3/ogg player, cd ripper, cd burner, video player are all gimmes. I suppose openoffice and the gimp would need to included also. A solitaire and minesweeper game (chuckle) would round it out. I am sure I have left some things out. Once I get some time I am going to dive into the idea. I just got through cleaning and scanning 1745 35mm color slides and I need a break from XP for a while.
Does anybody have any suggestions for a windows manager, I plan on tinkering with all the wm that Knoppix sports and start from there.
A good name for a modular (add the functionality track of your choice) Knoppix could be morphix I suppose.
Maudite
Re: KnopBase(morphix?) idea
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvessey
Have to say I like that name :D
so Alex is making this base distro, I have no idea how to go about making a second track with apps.... but anyway. Why not make it an option to have the second track on another CD? like, KnopBase boots and loads itself onto the ramdisk, spits out CD drive and asks politely for a module disc? I say only as an option because some people may want to run this thing as a server on something without enough ram.
I'm still not sure I quite understand how this second track/cd thing would work. It would be another compressed ISO image, right? how would it be made though? knopbase boots, detects everything, then mounts the second compressed image, chroots to it, and voila?
I have to say I love the idea and I'll help out testing it and what not if possible(I'm on dial up as well :(, although my brother has high speed at university).
Hmm, Morphix sounds nice! I'm still sliming down the base distro (53mb's (this time for real, i hope ;)) after which i'll try to make a session for KnopNL Desktop (the one with icewm and all those nice apps).
The spitting-out thing sounds like it could be usable, but then you could just as well throw everything on one cd (i dont think the savings would be that great, and it would be a waste for using 2 cd's, imho). I'm looking into multisession cd's at the moment, i'm just hoping that it's flexible enough to work. I'm afraid that i'll have to cut everything from usr and use that as a mountpoint for the compressed module, that would mean no manuals, and throwing kudzu, awk and the rest in /bin or another root directory. Configurationfiles would also be a pain...
as for maudite, KnopNL now uses icewm, imho the lightest and most usable (for people wanting a startbutton and a taskbar, to be honest i dont prefer it). We could have a Light GUI track (that DOESNT have openoffice, dammit ;), one with a light track more aimed at professional users (blackbox/wmaker/waimea, emacs/vim) and a heavy track, carrying KDE3/Gnome2 and Openoffice *shudder*, thats what i didn't like about knoppix :)
i've already mentioned the possibilities for non-GUI distro's, like a hardware-testing track, server-track, firewall-track and game-tracks (like the UT2003 demo knoppix cd, just more easier to make). The possibility of more than two tracks could also be thought about, but there would have to be a different mountpoint for every track :(
Glad to see some of you this enthusiastic, this might actually work ;)
Re: KnopBase(morphix?) idea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alextreme
Hmm, Morphix sounds nice! I'm still sliming down the base distro (53mb's (this time for real, i hope ;)) after which i'll try to make a session for KnopNL Desktop (the one with icewm and all those nice apps).
The spitting-out thing sounds like it could be usable, but then you could just as well throw everything on one cd (i dont think the savings would be that great, and it would be a waste for using 2 cd's, imho). I'm looking into multisession cd's at the moment, i'm just hoping that it's flexible enough to work. I'm afraid that i'll have to cut everything from usr and use that as a mountpoint for the compressed module, that would mean no manuals, and throwing kudzu, awk and the rest in /bin or another root directory. Configurationfiles would also be a pain...
as for maudite, KnopNL now uses icewm, imho the lightest and most usable (for people wanting a startbutton and a taskbar, to be honest i dont prefer it). We could have a Light GUI track (that DOESNT have openoffice, dammit ;), one with a light track more aimed at professional users (blackbox/wmaker/waimea, emacs/vim) and a heavy track, carrying KDE3/Gnome2 and Openoffice *shudder*, thats what i didn't like about knoppix :)
i've already mentioned the possibilities for non-GUI distro's, like a hardware-testing track, server-track, firewall-track and game-tracks (like the UT2003 demo knoppix cd, just more easier to make). The possibility of more than two tracks could also be thought about, but there would have to be a different mountpoint for every track :(
Glad to see some of you this enthusiastic, this might actually work ;)
that's what I figured about the the configuration files etc...
There's got to be some better way to do it besides the two ways already mentioned(/usr as mountpoint and chroot'ing). How much of a problem would chrooting actually make?
heh.. if a DVD version of this was made it could fit all the different modules onto one DVD :D
Re: KnopBase(morphix?) idea
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvessey
that's what I figured about the the configuration files etc...
There's got to be some better way to do it besides the two ways already mentioned(/usr as mountpoint and chroot'ing). How much of a problem would chrooting actually make?
heh.. if a DVD version of this was made it could fit all the different modules onto one DVD :D
To be totally honest, i don't know!
chrooting seemed to me to be overly complex, but after another thought it may be a whole lot better than removing /usr.
I guess the only way would be to try it (didn't have much time today), but i still like the idea of having multiple modules at once (maybe one major module, that is chrooted into, and multiple minor modules loaded into /usr/local or a different mountpoint alltogether? you might even have base check for them and let them change conf's or launch additional apps. On the other hand, i had liked seperating X from windowmanager and apps...)
Those different modules on one cd could also be a possibility, you might even have a lilo-GUI to select which module to load at startup (or a framebuffer-one, it would be more flexible than poor old lilo, and would seem faster).
Well, enough to do, i'll sleep a night over it ;)
alex
