For the love of god can someone do this

hi,

I was wondering if anyone out there in knoppix land could add this to a customized cd and make it available for download

http://www.xpde.com/

for those of you too lazy to click on the link, its a windows XP gui for linux... makeing it look and feel like XP. I know very little about linux or programing. I could soooooooooooooo use this, and im certain there are about 50 million people other people on this planet could too.

I love knoppix, and this would really raise the bar if you could put this into someones pc and boot up right into something that looks like xp but is linux... just think of the mass exodus...

-Leg0z


p.s.

please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please........

I attempted to install this and was a FANTASTIC failure!

I think this is a great idea as well!!!!

Can someone with a bit more skillz give this a whirl?

if some one did that, I would burn 50 copies of that and hand them out at the schools around here....

Great idea...

Ill match your 50 CDROM's in Atlanta!!

"Innovate, don't immitate" ;)

I guess it would be a nice move from my xp-theme. never did like those really bad colors. Then again, it would be a very, very sick joke :P

i just feel that more people would make the change if linux lookked framiliar, and the usage was similar.... just one more way to stick it to bill gates....

something like this should actualy be put in the standerd release of knoppix. maybe still have it boot to KDE, because KDE is far superior, but the sure would impress a windows user if you could boot into a windows like enviroment from the get go with a few simple start commands. So how bout it moders? anyone got the skillz to pull this off? me love you long time....

-leg0z

the problem with that is what you need to cut out to get it to fit. I think that they should add XPde to a "conversion" version.... XPde, OO.o, other similar stuff, but cut the "high end" programs.... the stuff a new person to linux wont be needing right away...

a knoppix complete for linux newbies, fantastic idea. Cut out some higher end programs that only an advanced linux users would use to make room for XPde. But, leave enough linux on it so you could get a good experience that way without too much confussion from the get go. Something like this really could cause a big stir in the microsoft world :twisted:

-Leg0z

that would be fantastic...

Hey there Leg0z... you're new to Linux right? What you're saying is exactly what I thought at first too...(if only they did this, EVERYONE would jump on Linux..).

I wish it were true, but it probably isn't, unfortunately. Looking at xpde though.. might be better for the family computer here :)


Whether or not to put it in knoppix.. well, it's obviously up to Klaus, but I don't think it would be good. We already have KDE, and I think you can give people enough credit that they'll be able to figure it out... besides, I can't re-distribute it, since I'm on dial up :(

Sorry I don't get it - what would be so great about that ?? Making Linux look like WinXP (there are themes by the way that do that)

XPde from what I understand is more then just a theme. It trys to emulate the "feeling" of windows XP...

what would be so great about it is that you could really ease the transition between windows and linux for someone who knows how to use windows xp. combined it with knoppix, and to a windows user thats pretty impressive.

I'm working on this. The distro is called "eXPo" (remember the name ;)). I did already a test release with XPde 0.1, and now I'm working on a new version with XPde 0.2 (released last saturday).

The problem is to remove all the packages the "normal newbie user" doesn't need and get the ISO image as small as possible. btw: If anyone can give me some space on his ftp-server for the ISO file, it would be nice!

Another problem is that people expect to much. Keep in mind that XPde 0.2 is far away from beeing a final 1.0 release. It doesn't even have a file manager. But anyway, development is going fast because of our two great core developers, cheers to Zeljan and José, you rock! ;)

stay tuned...

look at http://www.xpde.com - I'll make a post when I have eXPo 0.2 complete, expect it in a week or two...

Well, if it isn't too big i might risk placing it on my ftp (i don't think my isp would really mind, but it depends on the size).

Also, the problem with getting a base distro was tackled some time ago (first knopBase, later improved in Model-K and my own morphix base(sortof ;)). It's worth investing some time to not have to do the same work twice (something i too don't do often enough, i must admit).

However, i find that this project is a bit useless, i'd rather see this effort into making Gnome-applications (or KDE's for that matter) _better_. icewm is a great win32-like clone (not to-the-pixel point, but the general idea is the same, and a good theme really makes a difference). Also, if i put my non-geek mom behind a wellconfigured Gnome2.2 or KDE 3 desktop, she'll find out how it works just by trying, and within a few minutes she'll be surfing the web and chatting like usual.
It's not the desktop-interface that is the problem, it's having the applications that are usable and common enough. Imitating is good, but imitate the right idea's, not the wrong ones.

Sorry, just had to rant, don't mind this dirty hairy troll :D

Taken from the XPde FAQ:

· It's a waste of time, linux users should use KDE or Gnome!!

Yes, you are right. We use KDE, and we even think it is better than the Windows XP interface, but this project is not to replace KDE or Gnome. If you can switch a Windows XP user to Linux with the lowest learning curve as possible, then the goal of using KDE or Gnome is near. XPde is just an option for *existing* Windows XP users.


· I have installed Linux for my sister, my mother, my grandma, my little she-dog and my she-turtle with no computer knowledge and they are able to use it with no problems!!!!

You are right, you don't need this project.

· Do you think an *existing* user of Windows XP would want to migrate?, they are ok with what they have!!!

No, an *existing* user of Windows XP doesn't even know there such a thing called Linux, which can be more stable, more secure, with a lower TCO. If they know about it, they have to break too many walls to get into it. They won't want to migrate.

YOU as developer, YOU as sysadmin would like your customers use Linux. It would save you countless hours on the phone, countless hours repairing stupid Windows machines, countless hours cleaning viruses and it would give you a lot of flexibility on the computer management of your customers. XPde is just another tool in your toolset to help you migrate YOUR customers.



Martin I cant wait to see this done man... thank you for takeing up the project :)

-Leg0z

exactly the response i was expecting after my filthy rant ( i read that faq a few days ago ;))

Oh well, even though i don't agree with you two: good luck with your project and i hope it works out :)

just put the error fatal screen saver (waiting first time 10 min and after all 2 min !!) and then could be realistic; I forget ; would you send this fatal error to Linux$debbuger .??? all times you want to close an application !!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I prefere KDE 3.1 but could be funny for some Joke (to friends who do not know Linux...)

I never can understand this - why?

KDE is not so much different from xp or macosX for that matter. What "learning curve"? The curve has nothing to do with gui. The curve has to do with installing software, filesystem layout, configs, security, etc.

Anyone that comes and uses my KDE machine has zero problem loading up a web browser or doing basic file manipulations...

Besides, KDE already has options to make mouse clicks and window behaviour act like xp. What more do you want? Why not just use XP if you want XP? (I recently setup a KDE/linux/knoppix box for a great-grandma who is 86 - she's been using win98 for years. After spending a few minutes in the K settings panel, I was able to emulate everything from a single desktop, to double clicking to open something, as in her previous setup - she has no problems getting online, checking email, playing card games and writing and printing letters). Hell, there is even a "Redmond" settings option - as if that isn't a HINT-HINT.

Further, don't judge linux by it's ability to emulate windows. I prefer the KDE gui, multiple desktops and the like _over_ the xp interface.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leg0z

a knoppix complete for linux newbies, fantastic idea. Cut out some higher end programs that only an advanced linux users would use to make room for XPde. But, leave enough linux on it so you could get a good experience that way without too much confussion from the get go. Something like this really could cause a big stir in the microsoft world :twisted:

-Leg0z

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I second that; there's a few progs on Knoppix that I still have very little idea of how to use. So to make a more newbie-friendly Knoppix, cut those in favor of apps that are easy to use and not just the same as the others already on the cd. As much software as there is out there for Debian, it shouldn't be difficult to find some.

BUT - pardon me, I think the XP colors are butt-ugly. I've heard XP-users say they don't like that "patronizing Tonka toy interface" either. So maybe you should consider just dropping that in favor of a nice-looking GUI.

Btw, have you checked out the new Slackware live cd? The GUI looks very advanced, comparable to XP, and yet, not ugly. :) Just google Slackware live cd and you'll find it, and probably screenshots too.

Is it possible to include non-deb packages in a knoppix remaster?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leg0z

a knoppix complete for linux newbies, fantastic idea. Cut out some higher end programs that only an advanced linux users would use to make room for XPde. But, leave enough linux on it so you could get a good experience that way without too much confussion from the get go. Something like this really could cause a big stir in the microsoft world :twisted:

-Leg0z

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Care to provide a comprehensive list so we can start on the project? :)

Please just don't say 'u know the usual stuff e.g. python, latex, etc.' but provide a list of debian packages that you think that should be removed. Our vision of what user needs and what doesn't probably differs a lot and anyway .. from the 30 page list it's quite hard to select them .. if one could do that job I'm sure there would soon be many remasters that would have other more end-user stuff included because of much more free stuff since authors of remasters wouldn't have to deal with picking out the 'non-important' stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by davros4269

I never can understand this - why?

KDE is not so much different from xp or macosX for that matter. What "learning curve"? The curve has nothing to do with gui. The curve has to do with installing software, filesystem layout, configs, security, etc.

Anyone that comes and uses my KDE machine has zero problem loading up a web browser or doing basic file manipulations...

Besides, KDE already has options to make mouse clicks and window behaviour act like xp. What more do you want? Why not just use XP if you want XP? (I recently setup a KDE/linux/knoppix box for a great-grandma who is 86 - she's been using win98 for years. After spending a few minutes in the K settings panel, I was able to emulate everything from a single desktop, to double clicking to open something, as in her previous setup - she has no problems getting online, checking email, playing card games and writing and printing letters). Hell, there is even a "Redmond" settings option - as if that isn't a HINT-HINT.

Further, don't judge linux by it's ability to emulate windows. I prefer the KDE gui, multiple desktops and the like _over_ the xp interface.

---

Exactly! I like filet mignon, and I like cake, but this idea is like spreading cake icing on a filet mignon to make it look less "threatening" to cake eaters.

Linux can be incredibly difficult and intimidating for Windows users, but it's not because of d*mb*ss things like there being a K instead of the word Start - it's because setup, configuration, and anything other than user-level operation requires using BASH. If Linux ever gets to the point that a newbie can run the same applications that he could in Windows with a simple click of the mouse, and there is never any need to use the shell (or at least no more need to use the shell than the Windows Registry), the Windows folks will come. It will happen, but it won't happen soon.

Let's face it, if someone's computer skills are so lame that a different GUI is going to make them throw up their hands in frustration, then Linux definitely is not for them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martin

I'm working on this. The distro is called "eXPo" (remember the name ;)). I did already a test release with XPde 0.1, and now I'm working on a new version with XPde 0.2 (released last saturday).

The problem is to remove all the packages the "normal newbie user" doesn't need and get the ISO image as small as possible. btw: If anyone can give me some space on his ftp-server for the ISO file, it would be nice!

Another problem is that people expect to much. Keep in mind that XPde 0.2 is far away from beeing a final 1.0 release. It doesn't even have a file manager. But anyway, development is going fast because of our two great core developers, cheers to Zeljan and José, you rock! ;)

stay tuned...

look at http://www.xpde.com - I'll make a post when I have eXPo 0.2 complete, expect it in a week or two...

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I will host your iso file for you.

I could give your remaster a section on my (my own remaster) overclockix support forum too, for your users to seek assitance.

All I would ask is permission to remaster it slightly to add optional Distributed Computing clients- Folding@home and Seti@home and a few scripts- less than 1.5mb of files. I know a lot of Overclockix users would like to try it out, but they'd want the DC clients available as they are in Overclockix.

If there is room, I'd like to add drivers that knoppix does not have to it also so that it supports more hardware.

You can talk to me on http://overclockix-forum.theaog.com

Sorry I reposted a new topic that continues this one.

It was my first post and didn't know that this was even thought of.

Listen, all you linux gurus don't be such jerks! I want to switch to Linux. But all the friggin differences are too much to take! The looks, settings, files, extentions, file system, partitions, FRIG!!! The whole thing!

I want XPde because it will allow me to be productive and get used to the idea that I am using Linux, then it will allow me to set things up to the way that I am used to. THEN I can start to learn the new programs and ways of doing things little by little. I am a network admin for a public library. I have to convince the library computer lab moderators that Linux is a better OS. But they will NOT use it if they need to re-learn. They are trying to help 40 people use the internet and email apps. (People that are confused about the difference between a right click and a left!!!)
Even with my years of tech support and certs, I am afraid of Linux. I lose control. I can't do anything that I can do with my win2k machine. Even though I use Windows I haven't had a blue screen in over 3 years and I can do anything I need to do. But the fact still remains that this is a licenced machine that costs too much to upgrade and the crap that goes with it.
So all of you that know Linux, what are you losing by having the option for XPde? You aren't being forced to use it!!! It is allowing others to come to the knowledge that Linux is better! Are you the only one allowed to know this? Is it taking away from the fact that "Linux is a geek OS" and only the "L33t" are able to use it? Man give me a break!!! The whole philosophy that goes with Linux is Freedom! It is a giving philosophy, but you are doing it backwards. So what if it makes Linux easier to use, is that going to hurt your bragging rights that you aren't going to be the only "Linux L33t"?

I don't think you'd be doing anyone any favors with this project. Sure you might initially mislead them into thinking that Linux is as easy as Windows to use, but sooner or later they will find out that it's not, and then your credibility will be shot, as will Linux's or any other OS alternative that comes down the pipe. I'm not a Linux geek, but I am trying to learn it, and it's darn frustrating. I would have given up if already if I weren't so stubborn, and it sounds like your co-workers don't have even a fraction of my tenacity. Believe me, the frustrations have diddly crud to do with with the minor differences in the UI. You might as well p*ss down their backs and tell them it's raining for all the help this will make.

If you're really insistent on this, buy one license of Lindows and see if anyone nibbles. If you tell them you're demo'ing for a public library, they might even give you one for free to check out. But even Lindows doesn't claim that it will work the same. Because it doesn't.

I agree, Linux is hard to use! But that will not always be the case. There is a GUI now, it is getting better. There is almost a flawless install now, and getting better. There are apps now, and getting better.

What I am doing, (I have a dream...) is to learn it now while it is hard, then as it becomes easier... It will be easy to use. There are improvements on Linux every day that brings it ever closer to the "ease-of-use" that windows has. But even Windows took a while to learn. If I had started off with Linux, Windows would have been the hard one to understand.

So now that I got that out of the way... I know Windows. Windows is what I know. If I can administer a Linux Box like I do windows (even though it might be inferior) I will know what I am doing. I agree that KDE is cool, but it is easy to lose where you are because of all the new titles and ways of doing things. I would like nothing more than to know Linux like I know Windows. But I don't!!! So I am forced to learn Linux the hard way, but XPde will make any transition an easy one.

That is why I would like to have Knoppix give me the option to have XPde as a windows environment. I could boot to it, play around learn it and then go back to it when I need to.

The whole library thing is a future project. But XPde will do for them what it could do for me. Remove the shock.

It is like having a hot shower then jumping into a freezing pool. One extreme to the other, it is quite a shock to the system. But, if you add hot or cold to one or the other, it isn't such a big shock. Then you will be able swim around and get used to the water!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hunkah

It is like having a hot shower then jumping into a freezing pool.

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I can't agree. More like having a hot shower, then jumping into the middle of the ocean - the temperature may be somewhat uncomfortable, but, believe me, the temperature would be the least of your worries. Sometimes it hurts less to rip the Band-Aid off in one pull.

Still, if you like it, more power to ya'. :wink:

I agree with the band-aid thing!!!

But this is different. It isn't a question of which is better, it is a question of which am I able to use and be productive in. I agree that KDE is probably better, a lot better. But I can't use it as successfully as I can a WinBox.

I want to learn linux, but I need something to go on, a starting point.

I don't have any friends around here that know Linux or even Windows for that matter! I am on a small island (almost, 95% surrounded by water in town of 4000) Most are farmers and hicks of all sorts. So I need to learn on my own. If I started a LUG, I would be it! Me and some guy that thought it was a AAA meeting!

HEY, I have a great idea!

Could someone PLEASE just Download XPde (development release) and just modify only the files needed to make Knoppix boot into XPde. I can replace the files myself and rewrap the iso. All you need to do is make a do this do that list that I can follow.

To whomever takes this on.... Thank-you.

Crap, forget it. I just looked at the contents of the CD. I am dead in the water on that one. There is only a couple folders and one big extensionless KNOPPIX file! So I guess if someone was to take this on... It is going to be the whole thing. Sorry.

another new team of developers trying to show of their programming skills to the world.

if somebody wants to make it easier for newbies to use linux, why dont they rework the help section?

for example: when xp first opens there is a help screen automatically available, there is actually a helpful help and support section :shock:

i am not into M$/Linux bitching sessions. both opperating systems have their pros and cons.

all knoppix needs is a usable help section not a new desktop.

reece

Quote:

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Originally Posted by reecegeorge

... i am not into M$/Linux bitching sessions...

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It is funny that you say that, between two sentences that contradict it.

if you think that i was commenting on your posts, there is no need to take offence, i was making a general comment about the thread.

if it is the word 'bitching' that offended you then please replace it with the word 'emotional' and that should do the trick.

i hate it when i use the wrong word :!:

Hey, I was just joking! er something... I was pointing out that... ummm nevermind, it was just supposed to be funny. But now it isn't. Crap! I hate when that happens! :?

:o that is funny after all

I'll spend a little time trying to work XPDE into my upcoming 3.3 version of Overclockix. What I understand is that the script /etc/init.d/knoppix-autoconfig needs reworking for XPDE, and then the cheatcodes need to be altered to allow it to be selected and to be made as the default desktop (think that's in boot.img). And of course XPDE needs to be installed and maybe some settings should be pre-tweaked in /etc/skel/.xpde

Still too busy between being an admin AND a help desk tech to get on this just now. Hopefully by the end of November/beginning of December.

Thanks, you're the best!

Dear arkaine23,
I thing that this offer (your offer to mane an iso with xpde) is very great for us.

I am looking forward to try it.

Thank you very much.

Best Regards
Mike Kranidis

Has anyone ever tried to join the XPde forum? I tried and I couldn't get a password sent to me. It said it did but I never got it.

(Sorry for posting this in here, but I can't figure out how to get past this problem on the other site)

Click here to go to the forum