logout & logout knoppix

[eco2geek]

Appears that there is only ONE installer -=- knoppix-installer -=- which, by reason of deduction, all things I have heard of "beginner", "debian-like", lnoppix-like", etc... all must be options that are asked during this installer. In other words, you fire off this single installer for Knoppix to do a hard drive install, and are prompted during this install, for the different options that I mentioned, and others have mentioned, in this "current" thread. ( am I correct on this, my, assumption? )

Exactly right. The one install script ("knx2hd" is a symlink to "knoppix-installer") gives you the option of either 1) Knoppix-style; 2) Debian-style; or 3) Beginner-style installations. All of which are covered in detail on that page Markus mentioned.

To reiterate what champagnemojo said: Run the installer and configure the installation, then quit the installer. You can either choose to save the configuration file (".knofig") using the filename and directory of your choice, or you can let the install script default to saving it as /root/.knofig. Then open ".knofig" with your favorite text editor and check out the options (it's well-commented).

After you've changed what you want to change -- e.g. you can tell it to use a particular hard disk partition for /home -- save it, rerun the installer, and reload your ".knofig" configuration file.

(Sounds harder than it is. You'll see.)

[Cuddles]

AaaaaaHaaaaaaa

I get it now

Eco2Geek, I did check out the link to the "Docs" that Markus provided, and walked through the processing tree, very helpful...

From what I gather, now, the installer actually "wants" you to, or gives you the ability to, break up your root and home areas - through the installer - I don't think that was an option in my previous installer -=- knx-hdinstall -=- good addition, IMHO.

Clarification though: If I run the installer, tell it to save the .kno file, then ? exit ? the installer, make changes to this .kno file, does the installer just "re-generate" this .kno file from scratch the next time I run this installer? ( or does it re-read from the existing .kno file if it exists? )

I am quite sure that everyone is just saying "run the installer, and you'll see", but, one) I am a little leary about the "gut 'n install" at the moment, two) I am working on setting up just exactly what partition sizes I want/need for this new version, and finally, three) I am still coming up with stuff that I forgot I will need to re-install after I scrub my drive and install v3.4

I am usually very maticulous about my system, and its workings, when I plan to install another version "on top of" what I am currently running, and using, I tend to plan everything, all the way down to the smallest detail. I have had "far too many" - re-installs - with my current version to "finally" get it right, and hope not to make this same mistake on this version. ( it took me three "gut and re-installs" - from scratch, to get what I have now, with v3.3 )

I am trying to get as much information as I can before I actually comit to the install, with the idea that forwarned is better than after-thought.

Thanks for the help, my next plan is to examine partition sizing, and the /home migration that I already have "backed-up" on another partition/device. Hopefully, all I need to do is tell the installer to "point" my home into the partition I set up, and then copy/overwrite the installed /home with the "saved" one I have now, then go through all the apt-get install stuff to get me back to where I am currently, with the new install. ( I hope )

Ms. Cuddles

[champagnemojo]

Cuddles, the .knofig doesn't get re-generated each time. It's only altered if you choose to save your configuration. But like eco2geek says, you either need to save it to a location you'll remember or just let it put it in the default place. Just to beat a dead horse, one example would be to choose to save configuration and then enter /home/cuddles/.knofig into the blank. Then go into your /home/cuddles directory and edit that file with kwrite or whatever you want to use (making sure to do so as root). Then re-run the installer and choose load configuration and enter /home/cuddles/.knofig again. When you click on start installation you will see the options chosen...so you can make sure that everything is as you want it. I know it sounds confusing, but it really is rather intuitive once you go through the configuring stuff a bit. The good part is you can get the configuration all worked out before you actually install. So if you're worried about it, it might be good to go through the configuration parts of the gui a few times and get used to it before you actually intend to install.

[Cuddles]

Cool ChampagneMojo,

Sounds like they really thought out the installer on this new version, and very welcomed addition, I might add - with the new installer in place, maybe, just maybe, Knoppix can start contending with M$ as far as install issues.

I think this new install is going to be "a piece of cake" compared to my previous issues with Knoppix and its hard drive installations, very nice, and appreciated. ALSO, thank you for puting up with someone who tends to be "one card short of a full deck" when it comes to "gutting" her own system. ( read as cautious )

Ms. Cuddles

[Markus]

maybe, just maybe, Knoppix can start contending with M$ as far as install issues.

I seriously doubt this
After all, with the MS installer all you have to do is keep hitting <enter>, reboot five times, and answer yes to all accounts on "I have read the licence agreement and will happily let windows bork up my whole hard drive"

You might want to be a bit careful when restoring your home. I foresee some trouble with getting into X and KDE. I tried this when switching from knoppix 3.3 to kanotix bh5, and finally solved it by renaming my old user, created a new one with the old name, copied over the lot excluding .X-files and .kde (some desktop shortcuts in .kde I did copy over as they present no problem).

[markb]

I was referred to this thread and have learn't a bit about the installer here, thanks guys. However I must say that the knoppix-installer is still quite confusing. What really is the difference between "beginner" and "debian" installs? I tried debian and it failed to detect my mouse wheel etc (beginner detected it ok). So it seems I gain an easier setup by choosing beginner - but what do I lose? (boot time is still very quick with beginner). BTW, beginner seems a poor name for the option as it implies a simpler install than knoppix which seems to not be the case? The name also connotes naivete so people will avoid choosing it - I did!

Also, the manner in which .knofig is handled leaves much to be desired. The installer does not tell you the name of this file anywhere, nor that is is loading a previous config from it. I only discovered that such a file exists after searching on the web. When you do a "save config" there is no hint of how this relates to the .knofig file. Where in the sequence of install steps is the .knofig file read and what does it control? I tried to use the partitioning option and it just ignored my changes. I just thought I'd make these comments so that the next guy stumbling along the same cave as me may read my scribblings on this wall. No, it's not just you.

[Cuddles]

MarkB,

First thing, not to say that the reason for the beginner option is named so that no one would dare pick it, but, from what I read, the beginner option was decided on for the level of expertise in Debian/Linux, since, again, from what I know the setting does...

Once a person decides on making Knoppix a full-blown Operating System by installing it on their hard drive, at least this was the case in v3.3, the Operating System no longer does a hardware detectiion on boot. This, then, causes any new additional hardware being installed on the system after the install, a venture in adding the hardware manually. From the knowledge that I have gained in the reasoning behind the beginner option, is, that, the hardware detection is still performed, after the install onto the hard drive. True, the naming of this option does have some conotations, some of them are like walking around with a book called: Linux for Dumbies, but, the naming makes since, from the logical stand-point. The user does not need to delve into the "fine art of installing new hardware, and getting it configured", if the option is used, hence, beginner makes sense.

As for the notion that you were "pointed" to this topic, and your statement that, I just thought I'd make these comments so that the next guy stumbling along the same cave as me may read my scribblings on this wall. No, it's not just you. - I never really thought about the fact that someone else might follow my scribblings on the wall, and then, add there scribblings to the wall too, interesting analogy. Maybe, when everything has been said, and the wall is complete, we may all just sit back and admire the art, and nothing will be left to say.... ( we can only hope on this one )

I consider all threads, or topics, on this forum, to be, one of enlightenment, of learning, and hopefully, when I ask a question, others gain from its answer, just the same as, I hope, the ones asking questions, that I answer, gain from it as well. As an old school teacher once said: There is no stupid question, only the ones not asked. - coming from a background in support, Win98 Customer Phone Support, I have always held true to my teachings... Never diss anyone, treat all with respect and dignity, provide fast and efficient service, and never, I repeat, never, screw someones computer system. ( The last one was my own personal addition to my training. ) -=- Even though I diss M$ a lot, they did show me that they cared more for there customers than they did for there employees, and they instilled in my the creed of my support, "the right answer, right now." -=- Not sure if that has changed with the newer versions of M$ OS's since Win98, but, I am still a follower of what they said, back then.

Hopefully MarkB, our paths of enlightenment may cross again, some time in the future, and at that time, we both may be more knowledgable to answer the questions that we pose...till then, all I can say is, that this forum has been a constant source of knowledge for me. I run it, I support it, and as the USA likes to say, long may it be.

Just my thoughts,
Ms. Cuddles

[markb]

Cuddles, thanks for your help. There really is a wealth of information in these forums as long as one is willing to trawl through it. The main problem is that everything changes so often that the "static" documentation just doesn't remain current so the forums end up being the only information source that can keep up with the change. This certainly seems the case with the latest Knoppix.

Anyway, are you basically saying that the "beginner" installation type does not lose anything wrt to the "debian" install? (In fact, it gains the automatic hardware detection so it actually superior?).

[Cuddles]

MarkB,

I have heard "conflicting" information on the "beginner" install option...

I have heard that it does do a complete hard drive install, just like the other options, it does enable hardware autodectection ( during boot ), but, have heard that it doesn't allow configurations to be changed or updated. ( kind of like a "old" hard drive install and the Live CD mixed together. )

I can not be sure of this information, I do not have v3.4 installed yet, I am just going off of information I have read in the forums here. I have heard people ( from there posts ) that have used the "beginner" option, that reported not being able to "set and keep" configuration settings between boots ( this kind of action is closely related to the Live CD and the fact that it doesn't do the same, without usage of the "save configuration" in the menu. )

I have heard reports ( from the posts ) that people still are getting the hardware auto-dectection ( which in the older version of Knoppix, was only available without doing a hard drive install, and running off the Live CD. ) And lastly, they did run a hard drive install, using the beginner option, within the new version of Knoppix ( v3.4 ).

I know I read a idea thread that was posted in that forum, basically around the lines of "I would like to see the hardware detection still run on a hard drive install", and I think that "suggestion" is why the "beginner" option is in the new version. But, the person who suggested this "option" wanted to hard drive install the CD, and have the hard drive boot just like the CD, but without it. This has led me to believe that the "beginner" option is just a hard drive install that works just like the CD does. ( i.e. a locked down system, with passwords and configurations not able to be changed, with auto-detection of hardware, but physically being able to boot without the need of the CD or its locked usage of the CD-ROM drive. ) I think the person who suggested this "feature" wanted to use the CD in a school environment, where students could "beat" the systems, and not change anything. ( my guess )

Again, I can not be sure if this is exactly what the option does, I am only going off of what I have read, and what "problems" I have read people having. I am working off information provided by other people, and the problems they are experiencing. If, what I said above, is correct, that the "beginner" option is just another variation of the "Poor Man's" install, or a larger version of this, then it makes sense, when you try and figure out why someone would want it. In the right situation, it would come in handy, like my example, a school environment. The installer has come a long way since I hard drive installed my version of Knoppix, and has increased a lot of "options" to this point.

Used to be that you either had the CD boot, or you did a hard drive install ( which either looked like the "Knoppix" environment, or it looked like the "Debian" ). Now, though, you have a flood of install options, from Beginner, to Debian-Like, to Knoppix-Like, etc... ( this doesn't even add in the "past" option, like Poor Man's, which is still available. ) These options may, or may not, be the same as in the previous installer, I do not know. I have no clue what they set, don't set, what they install, or don't, and in many cases, I don't even know what the differences are between the options themselves. Yes, I am clueless with an installer, I admit it, and very shortly, I am going to be using it. ( July 4th weekend is the big day, v3.4 is going to go on-line on my system. ) I am sure of one thing though -=- I am going to be using the Debian-Like option. ( I don't "play around" with my bread 'n butter system, I am not going to "try" the other options out on this system, maybe a second system, but not this one. )

I hope this helps, a little, and that I am not just "rambling" here,
Ms. Cuddles

[champagnemojo]

I had to mess around a little with the beginner's install just for the heck of it. It's not locked down like the knoppix install. You can still change passwords and such...but there are some big issues with it. You can't make changes to your fstab file from what I can tell, because it will just regenerate it at bootup. I didn't play with it long, but I assume you probably can't permanently stop the automounter and such as well. It's still not a bad option, especially for people wanting a system closer to what they got with the live-cd...but there are cons with everything. I'll be sticking with the debian-like too.