How can I install Knoppix without installing Lilo or Grub?

**Mustang64** · 05-16-2005, 01:36 AM

I guess the title about says it all.

I want to install Knoppix 3.8.1 without installing Lilo or Grub. I have a good grub install, and I want to keep it. I will add the required commands to launch the new install after the install is done. Anyway I can do this, or am I asking too much?

GMD

**ruymbeke** · 05-16-2005, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by Mustang64

I guess the title about says it all.

I want to install Knoppix 3.8.1 without installing Lilo or Grub. I have a good grub install, and I want to keep it. I will add the required commands to launch the new install after the install is done. Anyway I can do this, or am I asking too much?

GMD

You should try the Windows Partition PMI: http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Win_Partition
skip the first steps, and basically just load the kernel and initrd_ntfs (even if you do not load the iso file from the ntfs partition) from what ever partition you like, using your existing grub installation but after editing the menu.lst. Hope this help...
Cheers, Gilles

**tdjokic** · 05-16-2005, 08:43 AM

May be this is easier: during installation, install Knoppix boot loader in his root partition.
After that you will have 2 posibillities:

a) to do as you allready says

b) to put in your Grub this:
"title Knoppix 3.8.1
rootnoverify (hd0,x)
makeactive
chainloader +1"

x = Knoppix partition

**Mustang64** · 05-16-2005, 02:29 PM

Trying to install "over windoze", or using any "microshaft" software, is not the issue. I have several "other" linux distro's installed. I just want to install Knoppix without the automatic install of Lilo or Grub.

Anybody know of how to do that? Any way I can do the "beginners" install, so I will have the HW detection, from Mepis?

BTW - I do not want to have anything to do with Redmendoze

if I can help it.

GMD

**tdjokic** · 05-16-2005, 04:09 PM

I just want to install Knoppix without the automatic install of Lilo or Grub.

This is exactly what I said - instalation of Grub in Knoppixs root partition will make no changes at all in your existing Grub, in MBR. Later you will add necessary commands in your existing Grub, to boot Knoppix.

**jjmac** · 05-17-2005, 10:30 AM

If the installer gives you a choice, chose not to by just selecting that option. If not ...

From the cdrom ...

]# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/fd0 bs=1024 count=1440

]# dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/fd0 bs=446 count=1

Also create a bootdisk for the new install. Use that to boot into the new install. Then do ...

]# dd if=/dev/fd0 of=/dev/hda bs=446 count=1

Whatever was acting as a bootstrap in you disks bootsector will be restored. Any changes that were made to your table will be retained.

If Grub or Lilo was bootstrapping, which ever one will be back.

Now you just have to edit the appropriate config and in Lilos case, re-run it.

Please be careful when using 'dd'. And having a couple of floppy backs, bootfloppys can never hurt.

>>
instalation of Grub in Knoppixs root partition will make no changes at all in your existing Grub, in MBR. Later you will add necessary commands in your existing Grub, to boot Knoppix.
>>

Very true, but my problem there is that it's a bit messy. Why have a nulled loader installed, if it's just going to sit there doing nothing. And, if the installer isn't providing a bypass option, or an option to make a bootfloppy instead ... then the installer is faulty.

jm

Code:

 -:-  If the system is the answer, then the question
                    must have been really stupid       -:-

**ottosykora** · 05-17-2005, 11:05 PM

>quote="Mustang64"]Trying to install "over windoze", or using any "microshaft" software, is not the issue. I have several "other" linux distro's installed. I just want to install Knoppix without the automatic install of Lilo or Grub.<

so completely without lilo or grub , well I think this might not work. At least in the knoppix own boot pratition (or root perhaps) you will have to install the lilo.
After that you have to add the partition to the menu of your grub and all should go.

**ruymbeke** · 05-18-2005, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by ottosykora

>quote="Mustang64"]Trying to install "over windoze", or using any "microshaft" software, is not the issue. I have several "other" linux distro's installed. I just want to install Knoppix without the automatic install of Lilo or Grub.<

so completely without lilo or grub , well I think this might not work. At least in the knoppix own boot pratition (or root perhaps) you will have to install the lilo.
After that you have to add the partition to the menu of your grub and all should go.

Grub can load both the kernel and the initrd (initial ramdisk) with all the kernel options from the menu.lst OR from the command line prompt (entered by typing the "C" key form the grub menu). Grub can read the kernel and initrd files from various file systems and storage media: fat, ext, cdrom, ntfs, floppy, hd, usb dongle, ... As an other option grub can load and transfert the control to the bootlader of a partition of a mass memory device. And in that case you want to have lilo or an other bootloader to be stored in the boot sectors of that partition. This is really up to you. Hope this helps. Gilles

**jjmac** · 05-18-2005, 11:41 AM

The point is, the OPer says that Grub is already installed. Though it isn't stated where ... probably the mbr.

There is no need to overwrite it during a subsequent Linux install. Windows , of course will ... but thats windows this is Linux and it shouldn't be tolerated.

So many people just go along with that scenario, and then end up with a mash of multi, non linked Grub/Lilo installs with none of them working properly

If the installer wont allow for bypassing that stage then it is a faulty installer. Regardless of the Linux flavour it belongs to.

Even the primitive woody 3.0 r0 installer has a bypass option as does BSD's.

Grub and Lilo just need a kernel to reference, or via the "other" configuration, an Os's loader, if it isn't a Linux, located on the OS's root partitions first sector. As is the case with things like windows and BSD.

Grub and Lilo don't need to be further installed to those locations !

Thats just a waste of boot time aka double-handling.

jm

Code:

 -|-  If the systems the answer, then the question
                    must have been really stupid      -|-

**tdjokic** · 05-18-2005, 12:32 PM

This is from Kanotix installer, which is now Knoppix installer too:

http://forum.kanotix.net/viewtopic.php?t=180

13. Next you will be asked "Choose where the boot loader (grub) shall be installed. Select "mbr: master boot record", and select "Next". If you use a different bootloader and wish to continue to use a different bootloader then of course installing grub to mbr is a bad idea, the best option here is to install it to partition IF this is the case.

I don't say this is best solution, but this is easiest for beginners...