Know Knoppix?

[harrygno]

New topic:
This is my first post here, so here goes.
I have a fairly short-term memory and I can't remember the name of the writer Was it Matrox1968? (something similar) He was suggesting there should be a download site where one could download the files you need.
However, it wasn't more than the second sentence when I realised I didn't understand what the files were that he referred to. So whilst it "sounds " a good idea I haven't a clue - which brings me to the MAIN POINT:-
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About a year ago I got a Knoppix v3.2 CD and didn't use it - now I think I might - so I removed the HDD and fired up the PC. It spins the CD and that's it - "no operating system".
SO I read the Readme and it turns out the CD isn't exactly a CD - something needs to be burnt to make a CD - Well OK I can do that, so replace HDD and start up NERO. It can see the Knoppix file and so I copy it over (drag'n'drop) and start the burn process with a blank CD. First time it chose 2x (so I wait for 40 minutes!) - then next day I try again at 16x - in both instances the CD is ruined - it won't run Linux that's sure. Indeed I suspect it is (almost) an exact copy og the Knoppix CD I got from a Magazine. ((So what's the point of buring a fresh one?))
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Now I know I can "buy a CD" from several vendors (although not conveniently located) or I can down-load from "mirror" sites - so I chose on in the UK.......hardly difficult except the site is about as friendly as a soldier with a pointy-stick. So I try "platform" Linux and get another load of messages, or are they files - but where is the "download"?
At this point I'm thinking Matrox1968 has a valid point - just why can't we download a few files to get Linux working, maybe try out the UK-english spellchecker in their version of "Office" and so on....
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Getting into this Linux is like ordering a flashy motorcycle, which I can't ride, only to discover it arrives in bags of iron oxide with a manual written in broken English explaining the Blast-furnace process and useful tips on annealing.
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Come-on guys there is no need to develop more Programs - let's have a simple download that allows us to try the O/S without having too much agro.
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I can just about load Windows98SE from a CD - although I think it needs MSCDEX on a 3.5" floppy to kick-start the CD-rom and maybe provide some basic DOS commands - I don't see this "boot-floppy" process being mentioned with Knoppix - just put the cd in and fire up (without the HDD I hope, as I don't want Windows overwritten) - so I must conclude that is how I should do it......yet not once has it worked, the BIOS is booting from the CD before the HDD and I've tried without the HDD as well.
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With most of the "commercial" versions of Linux there seems to be a desire to have dual-booting from a partitioned CD - this neatly side-steps the 3.5" floppy booting issue and means that if you have a large HDD the two O/S can co-exist happly - so are the basic i/o ROM-drivers (and soundcard, modem etc).... loaded from the Windows partition - or not?.
Since HDD are relativly cheap I might just favour having a dedicated Pull-out drawer for Linux - so why are dual-boot systems the only opion that I read about?
\\
As is usually the case someone ( here) will know the answers and let us share that wisdom. It beats me, that's for sure.
Regards

[Harry Kuhman]

About a year ago I got a Knoppix v3.2 CD and didn't use it - now I think I might - so I removed the HDD and fired up the PC. It spins the CD and that's it - "no operating system".
SO I read the Readme and it turns out the CD isn't exactly a CD - something needs to be burnt to make a CD

What you got and how / where you got it might help here. Generally you download an ISO and burn it as an image to a CD. If you bought a CD from anyone it should have already been burnt as an image. If they didn't do that then never deal with them again.

so I copy it over (drag'n'drop) and start the burn process with a blank CD.

Common mistake number one. This will just get you another copy of the ISO, not a bootable CD. Follow the documentation link at the top of this page and read the downloading faq (it includes information on burning as well as downloading).

Bottom line: You need to burn the ISO as an image, the exact commands to do this depend on your particular burning software. Do burn it slow, 2x is great, I usually use 4x. Burning too fast can result in a CD that boots on some systems but not others. If you downloaded the file yourself or have any reason to doubt the quality of the ISO (and if you got an ISO on CD that was not burnt as an image then you do have reason to doubt the quality of the ISO) check the MD5 sum before you burn it. If you don't have the md5 checksum for that ISO don't even bother to burn it, get a new fresh ISO. And use Bittorrent to download it or check the ISO with an MD5 checksum program after downloading from a mirror. There are two versions of the ISO, a German and and English version, you likely want the one with the name that ends in EN, not the one who's file name ends in DE. Knoppix is up to version 3.9 now and there have been some nice improvements since 3.2. 3.2 is still what it is and quite servicable (I didn't throw away my 3.2 CD, but seldom have reason to revert to it), but if you have a high speed connection you would be well server to follow the Get Knoppix link at the top of this page and get a new copy of 3.9 EN via Bittorrent.

[UnderScore]

Downloading & running Knoppix seems to be not a simple task because of the many ways to download and burn something to CD. Here is a test: In 2 lines, can you tell me how to download my video card drivers & burn them to CD? I will even tell you I am running Windows XP.

You won't be able to answer the question because you don't know the model of the card, there are many places to get the drivers, then there are many CD burning programs & different ways to burn something to CD. This complexity in getting a video cards drivers is about the same complexity in downloading & burning knoppix.

So anyway, you have identified a download mirror. That is good. Next you need to download the english EN version of the Knoppix ISO image file. You also need to download the appropriate MD5 file which is a very small text file. Ever wonder if the thing you downloaded is really an exact copy of the one up for grabs? It possible to have a corruption in the middle of the download and not even realize it. This is why we use a MD5 checksum to verify the download. You can use a windows program called md5summer to check a file. It process the ISO file & will spit out a string of alpha-numeric characters. This string appears to be random but it actually a mathematical finger print that uniquely identifies the file. Now inside the .MD5 file is another string of characters. If those strings match, then the file you downloaded is indeed an identical copy. If the strings are different, then the file you downloaded is corrupt.

If you have a perfect ISO image, then it is time to burn it. Follow Harry's advice and/or search the forums for nero.

[harrygno]

Thanks Harry Kuman and Underscore -
It seems I have been barking up the wrong tree - Although if it's such a common mistake, why isn't it made more obvious. If I'm told to cop, that's what I do and YES, I do have several "copies" of the original Knoppix all of which are equally useless.

I Got the cd from a magazine (a freebie) and until today it ran OK, (now I'm getting messages about "clean the cd" yet it looks sparkling and I've given it a gentle dust.

The CD has three files on it:
1) looks like a readme and offers no useful advice.
2) is knoppic.iso (with lots of other numbers between)
3) is the same file reference as 2, but it's a short file (opens in Notepad, nothing useful) with md5 extension, so from what you say this is a check-sum file maye I need to make a copy of that also.
The odd thing is that the Knoppix was issued in 2003 when Nero.5 was current and yet.........
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So I'm going to put the Knoppix disc in again. drag-drop the knoppix.ISO and the .md5 checksum file and try to burn image (under File).....the NERO burning software is ludicrously complicated - really guys if you write software don't do it the NERO way.Their v6 is even worse!

Just how many tasks can one need - then put them in a logical order and even the thickest punter will be able to swap discs until the compilation looks right - I still don't "understand" why I got a Knoppix ISO CD when a bootable CD would have been so much more use - why make life so complicated?
Grr......but thanks guys, I shall try it later, so chip-in before -if you like. I'm all ears.
Regards H.

I am slightly worried about the downloading (from a mirror site for example) partly as I have a workable disc - if I like Linux then I'll try maybe the latest from Red-hat , or Novell etc. The instructions seem to suggest I use some download technology that lets others use my PC after I've finished - apart from the risk of viruses I don't know how to do this and it seems a bit risky at best. However, I'm not sure I want to partake some technology scheme that entertains this idea. Yes I know it's all about share and share alike, but that is fine when you know your limits - I feel I don't know a lot less.
//
As HDD's are relatively cheap - I'd like to have a HDD dedicated to Linux - yet I get the impression I have to have a working Windows (I have Win98SE only) on a small partition and then boot to Linux - I'm trying to get away from Windows - why can'y I start with Linux pure and simple? I realise I need to boot the PC with a disc to create the basic Input-output operation and MSCDEX to drive the CDROM but that can be done on a floppy (or I make a CD for the purpose) - I have changed the BIOS so the CD fires up first, normally it it empty so the PC loads as usual, from the HDD.
. Can I ask a final Q.? .......for Knoppix, do I need to have the HDD connected? when I do I get Windows - but I suspect that is because the Knoppix copy isn't working (as you both identified, it's the wrong sort of Knoppix) - oh dear more questions than answers....again.
Thanks.

[Harry Kuhman]

... YES, I do have several "copies" of the original Knoppix all of which are equally useless.

I Got the cd from a magazine (a freebie) and until today it ran OK, (now I'm getting messages about "clean the cd" yet it looks sparkling and I've given it a gentle dust.

The CD has three files on it:
1) looks like a readme and offers no useful advice.
2) is knoppic.iso (with lots of other numbers between)
3) is the same file reference as 2, but it's a short file (opens in Notepad, nothing useful) with md5 extension, ....

You're very very confused about something. A CD with an ISO file on it will never boot into Knoppix. There is simply no way that such a CD "until today ... ran OK"

There is lots of information on this site for making a bootable CD, none of it will tell you that you can just boot a CD with the ISO on it. You might, after you figure out why you say that cd used to work, read the downloading faq found by clicking on the documntation link at the top of this page. And / or you can search the forums for the many many other times users have been talked through burning the disk properly. One good search term might be ISO, although burn and burning are also good choices.

You certainly can get error messages that a disk needs cleaned even if the disk shows no scatch. One source might be a dust build up on the CD drive's lense. But that doesn't explain a disc with an ISO file on it ever having booted and then stopping to boot.

[Harry Kuhman]

Why do you have this posted in the ideas forum???

[Carrot]

OK, Download or copy from your coverdisk the *.ISO

I personally don't worry about the MD5 but it can be a good idea to chek, I don't know how though

open nero, select burn image, select the set of file extensions including *.iso and browse for the file you d/l'ed or copied. (You don't need to copy if you have 2 optical drives)

That method will "extract" the data from the *.ISO and make it into a bootable CD. My dad made the same mistakes with the 3.2 coverdisk from PCFormat (I think) Was only when I re-read the article in the magazine to him did he understand.

You have to remember that most mags etc.. ASSUME that you have a basic knowledge of what they are talkin about. Whilst you may be S***-hot in some areas,by the law of averages there is going to be stuff you don't know about.

Things are only easy when you know the answer. But I wouldn't say it is overly complicated either. Compiling X.Org on Debian Sarge from scratch, with nothing else installed bar the base files - that is complicated

[UnderScore]

Carrot those are all great tips. Those tips & more (even an explanation about md5 sums) are all in the Downloading FAQ located in the http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/

[markpreston]

harrygno,
I'm sure someone in London could help you get over these initial teething problems quite easily.
There is the GLLUG (Greater London Linux Users Group) which has a very good mailing list
see
http://lists.gllug.org.uk/pipermail/gllug/
for the archives.

Use [email protected] to email a question or beg for help. - is it O.K. to write this email address?
They also have fairly regular meetings where I'm sure you could find someone to help.

There is also a "free" book that Knowing Knoppix that you might find useful.
http://unit.aist.go.jp/itri/knoppix/...-knoppix/main/
http://www.pjls16812.pwp.blueyonder....pix/index.html

If you fancy a trip to Southend, SoSlug meets every Thursday night.
See http://www.soslug.org/

I'm sure somebody there would be able to show you how to get going with Knoppix.
Regards,
Mark