Which sources to use to remaster Knoppix 4.0.2?

[pau1knopp]

Have not done a remaster since KNX 3.7, but I am running into a problem when I remaster 4.0.2 that I don't recall having with previous version. When I go to remaster my source copy of Knoppix (using kgpg with this example), it seems as if it wants to remove, upgrade, and install dependencies for an abnormally large number of packages. And the list of dependencies is HUGE.

In my example listed below, an apt-get install kgpp says that it wants to remove k3b. Check out the list of extra packages to be installed, suggested packages, and packages to be removed and updated. I serious doubts that my remaster will run with all the recommended changes that apt-get makes.

My only guess is that there are some Knoppix specific packages that I need to use, and sources.list needs to be restricted to just that set of packages. I am using the sources.list that comes with KNX 4.0.2.

Here is the output I see after doing an "apt-get install kgpg". Any help greatly appreciated.

~pau1

Reading Package Lists...
Building Dependency Tree...
The following extra packages will be installed:
akode akregator ark cupsys cupsys-bsd cupsys-client dbus-qt-1c2 gcc-4.0-base
gs-common gs-esp kaddressbook kalarm kamera kandy kappfinder karm kasteroids
kate kate-plugins katomic kbattleship kcalc kcharselect kcontrol kcron kdat
kdeaddons-kfile-plugins kdeadmin-kfile-plugins kdebase-bin kdebase-data
kdebase-kio-plugins kdebluetooth kdegraphics-kfile-plugins kdelibs-bin
kdelibs-data kdelibs4c2 kdemultimedia-kfile-plugins kdenetwork-kfile-plugins
kdepasswd kdepim-kfile-plugins kdepim-kio-plugins kdeprint kdesktop kdessh
kdf kdiff3 kdm kfax kfind kfloppy kget kghostview khelpcenter khexedit kicker
kiconedit klaptopdaemon klipper kmahjongg kmail kmailcvt kmenuedit kmix knode
knotes kolourpaint konq-plugins konqueror konqueror-nsplugins konsole
konsolekalendar kontact kooka korganizer kpackage kpager kpersonalizer kpf
kphone kpilot kppp krdc kreversi krfb ksmserver ksnapshot ksokoban ksplash
kstars kstars-data ksync ksysguard ksysguardd ksysv kteatime ktimer ktip
ktnef ktuberling kuickshow kuser kvdr kview kviewshell kwifimanager kwin
libarts1c2 libartsc0 libbluetooth1 libcupsimage2 libcupsys2 libdb4.1 libedit2
libflac++5 libflac7 libgcc1 libgnokii2 libgphoto2-2 libgphoto2-port0
libgstreamer0.8-0 libjack0.100.0-0 libkcal2b libkdeedu1 libkdegames1
libkdepim1a libkleopatra0a libkmime2 libkonq4 libkpimexchange1
libkpimidentities1 libkscan1 libksieve0 libktnef1 libmimelib1c2 liboggflac3
libopenexr2c2 libparted1.6-13 libqt3-compat-headers libqt3-headers libqt3-mt
libqt3-mt-dev libroken16-kerberos4kth libsamplerate0 libselinux1 libsensors3
libssl0.9.8 libstdc++6 libtag1c2 libxau6 libxcomposite1 libxdamage1 libxdmcp6
libxfixes3 libxinerama-dev libxkbfile1 libxml2 libxslt1.1 libxxf86dga1
libxxf86misc1 libxxf86vm1 lisa lsb-base openssh-client openssh-server
qt3-dev-tools qtparted samba samba-common scribus secpolicy smbclient smbfs
ssh vimpart xlibs-static-dev xlibs-static-pic
Suggested packages:
rar cupsys-driver-gutenprint cupsys-driver-gimpprint foomatic-filters-ppds
xpdf-korean xpdf-japanese xpdf-chinese-traditional xpdf-chinese-simplified
cups-pdf hplip gtklp cupsys-pt xpp kdepim-kresources kttsd aspell ispell
konq-speaker kdeaddons-doc-html kicker-applets gnupg-agent pinentry-qt
pinentry-x11 kleopatra spamassassin bogofilter annoyance-filter clamav
f-prot-installer knewsticker kweather kdeedu-doc-html kdetoys-doc-html
gstreamer0.8-tools gstreamer0.8-plugins libparted1.6-dev libparted1.6-i18n
libqt3-mt-psql libqt3-mt-mysql libqt3-mt-odbc libqt3-i18n qt3-doc lm-sensors
linux-image-2.6 kernel-image-2.6 lm-sensors-mod-2.9.2 lm-sensors-mod-2.9.1
lm-sensors-mod-2.9 ssh-askpass rssh samba-doc scribus-template scribus-doc
xspecs
Recommended packages:
ncompress zoo kregexpeditor udev hal pmount kdemultimedia-kio-plugins
kitchensync ocrad kdeedu-data
The following packages will be REMOVED:
dbus-qt-1 isdn-config jackd juk k3b k3blibs kaffeine kdelibs4 kgpgcertmanager
kxconfig libarts1 libcupsys2-gnutls10 libkcal2a libkdenetwork2 libkdepim1
libmimelib1a libopenexr2 libqt3c102-mt libtag1
The following NEW packages will be installed:
akode dbus-qt-1c2 kdelibs4c2 kgpg libarts1c2 libcupsys2 libdb4.1 libedit2
libflac++5 libflac7 libgnokii2 libgstreamer0.8-0 libjack0.100.0-0 libkcal2b
libkdepim1a libkmime2 libmimelib1c2 liboggflac3 libopenexr2c2 libparted1.6-13
libqt3-mt libroken16-kerberos4kth libsamplerate0 libssl0.9.8 libtag1c2
libxau6 libxcomposite1 libxdamage1 libxdmcp6 libxfixes3 libxinerama-dev
libxkbfile1 libxxf86dga1 libxxf86misc1 libxxf86vm1 openssh-client
openssh-server
The following packages will be upgraded:
akregator ark cupsys cupsys-bsd cupsys-client gcc-4.0-base gs-common gs-esp
kaddressbook kalarm kamera kandy kappfinder karm kasteroids kate kate-plugins
katomic kbattleship kcalc kcharselect kcontrol kcron kdat
kdeaddons-kfile-plugins kdeadmin-kfile-plugins kdebase-bin kdebase-data
kdebase-kio-plugins kdebluetooth kdegraphics-kfile-plugins kdelibs-bin
kdelibs-data kdemultimedia-kfile-plugins kdenetwork-kfile-plugins kdepasswd
kdepim-kfile-plugins kdepim-kio-plugins kdeprint kdesktop kdessh kdf kdiff3
kdm kfax kfind kfloppy kget kghostview khelpcenter khexedit kicker kiconedit
klaptopdaemon klipper kmahjongg kmail kmailcvt kmenuedit kmix knode knotes
kolourpaint konq-plugins konqueror konqueror-nsplugins konsole
konsolekalendar kontact kooka korganizer kpackage kpager kpersonalizer kpf
kphone kpilot kppp krdc kreversi krfb ksmserver ksnapshot ksokoban ksplash
kstars kstars-data ksync ksysguard ksysguardd ksysv kteatime ktimer ktip
ktnef ktuberling kuickshow kuser kvdr kview kviewshell kwifimanager kwin
libartsc0 libbluetooth1 libcupsimage2 libgcc1 libgphoto2-2 libgphoto2-port0
libkdeedu1 libkdegames1 libkleopatra0a libkonq4 libkpimexchange1
libkpimidentities1 libkscan1 libksieve0 libktnef1 libqt3-compat-headers
libqt3-headers libqt3-mt-dev libselinux1 libsensors3 libstdc++6 libxml2
libxslt1.1 lisa lsb-base qt3-dev-tools qtparted samba samba-common scribus
secpolicy smbclient smbfs ssh vimpart xlibs-static-dev xlibs-static-pic
140 upgraded, 37 newly installed, 19 to remove and 509 not upgraded.
Need to get 132MB of archives.
After unpacking 23.1MB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Abort.

[pau1knopp]

Oddly enough, if I edit my /etc/apt/sources.list config file to include only the following, it is all good. Basically, I remmed out (#) everything else, and unremmed the Ubuntu stuff.

Now it installs kgpg (only) and VLC (with a reasonable amount of dependencies and no upgrades) and it appears to work satisfactorily.

# Packages from ubuntu. CAUTION, they don't mix well with Debian
deb http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary main universe multiverse
deb-src http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary main universe multiverse

Can anyone think of a good explanation for this? It would be nice to have a recommendation from Klaus and company to get the recommendation on what to use.

It almost seems like the development team are using Ubuntu packages now (unless I am missing something).

[tr]

It almost seems like the development team are using Ubuntu packages now (unless I am missing something).

I don't use myself. Those packages might install well but do they also work well?

I think that it is safe to use only Debian apt repositories.

In Knoppix 4.0.2 is also Kanotix source enabled but e.g. XChat is modified to be used with Kanotix only. I think that the situation is the same wiht Ubuntu.

The thing to do is look what Debian sources you have. If you have testing and unstable 'dist-upgrade' upgrades your system to X.org and knoppix-autoconfig and xsession don't support that.

Sometimes it's a little bit tricky too. I could install new KDE 3.4.3 only by enabling experimental source and by changing default release temporary to experimental in apt.conf file. If you want new OpenOffice.org you get old 1.1.4 from stable if you have not unstable source in use. New package has same name but only sources are different.

I have also added to /etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg a new line force-overwrite and never had dependency problem any more.

Yes, there is one thing more that could cause gray hairs and that is dpkg-divert. I think it means in Knoppix case that mr. Knopper has made a package with the same name that is already in use. That can be possible with dpkg-divert but solving problems when original package is to be upgraded is not so easy.



-tapsa-

[pau1knopp]

Thanks for the response. Here are my observations / thoughts...

The Ubuntu stuff I needed and installed worked great (kgpg and streamtuner). I have already built them into my remaster and am using them extensively on a daily basisi. VLC does not, but it may be a codec thing... haven't had a chance to work with it. I agree that this is not a good solution however.

The rest of your post is a bit to technical for my back ground (network layer) and sounds like a quite a bit of effort and parts of it sound like there would still be some uncertainty about the results.

Wouldn't the best thing be to point to the packages that Klaus uses to build the distro? I am guessing (perhaps incorrectly) that the standard testing / unstable packages are not the ones he uses, as when I try to install a fairly trivial program (kgpg for instance is only a kde applet) it wants to install an unreasonable amount of upgrades and package removes (k3b) to bring it into compliance with whats in testing / unstable.

Due to this, I still don't have the answer to my original question. I don't (think) that standard debian testing / unstable are the correct sources to use.

However, I did miss these items in sources.list during my first post:

# deb http://developer.linuxtag.net/knoppix ./
# deb-src http://developer.linuxtag.net/knoppix ./

# deb http://snapshot.debian.net/archive pool gcc
# deb-src http://snapshot.debian.net/archive pool gcc

I will try using these to install kgpg and streamtuner (seems like a reasonable all around sample of applications) and post the results here.

~pau1

[tr]

Wouldn't the best thing be to point to the packages that Klaus uses to build the distro? I am guessing (perhaps incorrectly) that the standard testing / unstable packages are not the ones he uses, as when I try to install a fairly trivial program (kgpg for instance is only a kde applet) it wants to install an unreasonable amount of upgrades and package removes (k3b) to bring it into compliance with whats in testing / unstable.

Mr Knopper uses standard Apt repositories. Anyhow, he uses some of his own packages as demanded to get live-CD to boot right and to help in configurating some services.

# deb http://developer.linuxtag.net/knoppix ./
# deb-src http://developer.linuxtag.net/knoppix ./

# deb http://snapshot.debian.net/archive pool gcc
# deb-src http://snapshot.debian.net/archive pool gcc

Linuxtag had previously all Knoppix specific stuff but it is not updated anymore. I think that mr. Knopper has had some difficulties to find a new repository. You can remark Linuxtag out if it is not done by default. If you are very careful you can use Kanotix source to update Knoppix stuff. But be careful because Kanotix has some Kanotix specific packages. And Kanotix uses nowadays X.org instead of XFree86 and udev instead of hotplug - Knoppix not.

Snapshot has really new packages 'snapshots' of the coming stuff and should not be used in normal remastering or in hd-installed Debian use.

-tapsa-

[pau1knopp]

Thanks again.

One last question on the subject tr, and i'll be quiet.

If knoppix is built from standard apt repositories (i agree this MUST be the case) why do you suppose that I am not able to add packages from unstable or testing to the 4.0.2 without adding (IMO) an abnormally large amount of upgrades, dependencies, and breaking existing apps?

i am definately open to a PEBCAK problem on this one. (problem exists between chair and keyboard)

regards,

~pau1

[tr]

ne last question on the subject tr, and i'll be quiet.
If knoppix is built from standard apt repositories (i agree this MUST be the case) why do you suppose that I am not able to add packages from unstable or testing to the 4.0.2 without adding (IMO) an abnormally large amount of upgrades, dependencies, and breaking existing apps?

Well, if you install kgpg and have experimental source in use (I think it is not commented out by default), your whole KDE is upgraded to 3.4.3. That's why you get such a bunch of new packages

If you just want to install kgpg intended to work with your existing KDE 3.4.2, comment experimental out from sources.list and run 'apt-get update'.

-tapsa-

[pau1knopp]

tapsa,

very close. thanks for putting me on the right track.

I edited my /etc/apt/sources.list so that all it had was:

# Stable
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/pub/debian stable main contrib non-free
# Testing
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/pub/debian testing main contrib non-free
# Unstable
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free

and I had the same results. I remmed out each one until all i had left was

# Stable
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/pub/debian stable main contrib non-free

it installs only kgpg and streatuner (hurray!)

it is till very flaky, and each time i reinstall or reboot, I have to go through the same steps (rem out each line, update, and finally only use only stable). i think there is something wrong with this function in 4.0.2

thanks for the help,

~pau1

[tr]

I edited my /etc/apt/sources.list so that all it had was:

# Stable
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/pub/debian stable main contrib non-free
# Testing
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/pub/debian testing main contrib non-free
# Unstable
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free

and I had the same results.

Okay, your KDE must be so old that even testing updates it. Sometimes it is very irritating because there might be only a minor update you don't want to download. You can check updates any time from http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages

KDE 3.4.3 seems to be still in experimental but testing and unstable has a little newer packages of KDE 3.4.2 than stable. So using only stable is a good thing if you don't want to get train loads of new packages

-tapsa-

[pau1knopp]

My KDE is whatever version came with version 4.0.2, but your explanation seems reasonable.

However, I'm still not sure why I have to go through all the steps to get apt-get to work even as stable. Unless I go through the steps of remming out testing and unstable, (while running apt-get update between each edit), it will not eventually work on stable for me. It's just nuts.

Other versions of Knoppix (3.4 and 3.7) have just worked out of the box for me.