Is there any other way?

[Azalea]

Recently I received Knoppix (the first Linux I have ever used), and as a LiveCD it works beautifully on my 2006 laptop. It booted well, it worked fast, and it is great to use because I don't have to destroy Windows XP for anyone else in my family who would prefer it. But unfortunately after an overheating the laptop is basically dead, not starting up or anything.

The only other computer in my grasp is a 2003/2004 desktop with XP running on it fine, just a little tad slow. It still meets all the requirements for my type of Knoppix, 5.0.1, but when I boot it up VIA Knoppix on CD or Knoppix on USB pen drive, it simply comes to a black screen with the words "Error loading operating system-". IS there any other way to start Knoppix without installing on the HDD, or anyway to fix this?

Thank you.

[Harry Kuhman]

Pen drives can be quite a problem, many systems don't support booting from USB flash drives, even though the BIOS may have options that imply that they do. Booting from CD is the best bet (wisely staying away from installing Knoppix to hard disk, which is plagued with problems). You might need a special boot parameter or "cheat code" to talk it past some of the hardware detection (see the cheat codes section of the wiki or the cheat codes.txt file that came with the download). However, based on my past experience, I think the most likely cause of the particular error that you give is that the CD was burnt at a high speed. We have seen over and over again that high speed burns are marginal and will boot on some systems but cause slow booting, complete failures like you see, or other problems on different computers. If the CD was indeed burnt at high speed I suggest making another one and burning at 4X speed to see if that doesn't correct the problem.

[Azalea]

I didn't burn the CD myself; it was purchased from Linux Central. If I move the files from the disk, and burn them on a new disk again will it make a difference?

[Harry Kuhman]

I didn't burn the CD myself; it was purchased from Linux Central. If I move the files from the disk, and burn them on a new disk again will it make a difference?

I have a very low opinion of discs bought from CD sellers out to make a buck, they almost certainly burn them at high speed.

You can't just copy the files, that will not produce a bootable disk. You could use a disc copy function in burning software and make a copy with the new disc being burnt at 4x, that should help as long as read errors can be corrected by the redundant data (there is over 14 % of CD space used just to hold this error correcting data), be sure to let your burning software correct errors and not duplicate them! But as long as you have a high speed connection, better by far would be to read the downloading FAQ, download a new ISO file (English version has EN in the name) and burn it with software that knows how to burn an ISO file.

[Azalea]

Although it seems the easiest option, I have dial-up. I'll try the disk copy, but right now I am having problems with my recordable disk drive.

Thank you for helping out so far.

[Harry Kuhman]

Although it seems the easiest option, I have dial-up.....

Another option might be to introduce a friend to Knoppix (a friend with high speed access) and to offer to help him make his own copy, downloading the ISO on his system. If you go this route be sure to read and follow the steps in the downloading faq; it would not be a friendly thing to do to make your friend a bunch of coasters.

[johnrw]

I can make you a bootable USB thumbdrive. So can others. Mine works in an old pc. I bough a couple of 8GB PNY drives and I am really happy with them. If you want to try that... you can pm me so we can figure out if that is easy enough. I'm in the NYC area.

You may be glad to know that a new version of Knoppix is coming(5.3) within a couple weeks. I have the Cebit 5.3 version already... but Klaus has promised a bugfixed kernel for the final 5.3 release.

To see if yours can boot from a USB drive... you may want to try this out on an old thumbdrive or a cheap new one.
http://www.pendrivelinux.com/2007/09...compatibility/

But before you do that... you should make sure there is no U3 software on it. Especially new drives... almost all seem to come with it.

If it has U3... they are happy to remove it. It's also a comfort to know... there is no way for it to be reinstalled. http://www.u3.com/uninstall/

[johnrw]

Well with the problems of cd/dvd burners being so computer specific... where you have the dvd+ dvd- media types, and then the burn speed used to make the disk etc... and usb simply not having that problem at all... I decided to find out where people can buy a already made knoppix. These people do make them and sell them. The website still has Knoppix 4.0 in a flash video I found there. Here is the Knoppix forum for their Knoppix line. I would just contact them and see what they will charge for Knoppix 5.1.1... and tell them Knoppix 5.3 is due soon while I was at it. If they are paying $45.00 US for an 8GB drive... as you would too... then calculate a reasonable fee and see if it is worth it to you.

The Forum.
http://www.flashpcs.com/modules.php?...=viewforum&f=9

The flash videos. Not just Knoppix.
http://www.flashpcs.com/modules.php?...article&sid=13

Edit: jw
Well I called them up... and asked why their prices are so high... and she said they were going to be making up some new prices soon but I could not even get a ball park figure. She did say that they always use the latest version... so it would have Knoppix 5.1.1 on it. They have been in business for 13 years she said.

[Harry Kuhman]

Well with the problems of cd/dvd burners being so computer specific... where you have the cdr+ cdr- media types, and then the burn speed used to make the disk etc...

There is no such thing as cdr+ and cdr- media types.

There is, in recordable media, CDR (write once, although multi-session is supported) and CDRW (Eraseable). Although many CD burners claim to be able to burn CDR media at 52x or sometimes even 56x, this high speed burning should never be used, as it always introduces extra errors into the burn. In many cases of simple data discs these errors are hidden by the extra error recovery data that is also encoded on the disc (over 14% of the disc is used for error recovery data, which means that a 700 meg disc could hold 800 meg if it were not for the error encoding). While you can burn data discs at high speed and seem to get away with it, since the error recovery data is already needed to read the disc, a disc burnt at high speed is more likely to go bad from minor scratches or simply from "bit rot". Knoppix users frequently see problems with discs burnt at high speed. I'm not certain why this affects Knopix more than other disc uses, but I suspect that the booting process might not do as much error correction as a full OS does. Whatever the reason, we have learned that Knoppix discs should be burnt at low speed and any disk burnt at high speed is suspect, even if it did boot on a different computer.

If you ever burn VCD or SVCD format CDs, you will learn quickly the importance of doing low speed burns, as these formats do not include error correction data and instead use the extra space to cram more video on a CD. Discs burnt in these formats at high speed tend to have lots of errors that show up as large pixelated video errors durning playback, while discs burnt at low speed from the same source files can be error free.

CDRW media must be burnt at a slower speed than CDR media. The burner enforces this restriction. Most CDRW media can and should be burnt at 4x, some older media topped out at 2x. And there is some CDRW media made that claims higher speed burn rates. I avoid these, since (in addition to high cost) the dye used in these discs must be burnt at higher speeds (you can not properly burn these CDRWs at 4x in a 4x burner (or in any burner). CDRW is different in another way also, it is lower in reflectivity than CDR media. Drives that can read CDRW media make up for this lower reflectivity by an auto-gain circuit in the read electronics. Old drives without CRW support lack this auto-gain support. I personally like CDRW for Knoppix over CDR for several reasons: No waste if a novice doesn't know how to properly burn an ISO file or if he got a bad download and didn't check the md5 checksum, reusable if a new version of Knoppix comes out (several years ago we had a run of multiple releases a week rather than the current over a year since the last release status), the low speed burn is enforced by the burner, and the increased gain for reading the disc seems to sometimes help drives where the optics have become a little dirty.

And of course there is 650 meg media and 700 meg media, as well as small "business card" media and other novelty sizes. Knoppix CDs should be burnt on 700 meg media.

There is, of course DVD+R and DVD-R media for DVD, as well as DVD+RW and DVD-RW, and some other less popular DVD formats like DVD-RAM. But you were talking about CD media.

I decided to find out where people can buy a already made knoppix. These people do make them and sell them.

The scum of the earth will sell you many things, just look at e-bay. But what is your expectation, that someone out to make a few bucks selling someone else's work in Linux will take the time to do a quality burn at 4x on good quality media, or that he will pump out as many disks as he can an hour? The original problem is just what I see reported by people who do high speed burns or by people who buy burnt discs on-line, and I completely expect that the problem is related to a high speed burn. What you are trying to say with the above quote is not clear.

I don't know why anyone would waste time and money with CD resellers. Certainly not now with the price of good quality name brand CD/DVD burners as low as $24 US. For the cost of a few purchased CDs you can buy your own burner and make the disc correctly, not get marginal problem discs from some profiteer. And then you own the drive and get all the uses it has.

Those who lack high speed access would be advised to buy a small flash drive (1 to 4 gig, more if you want to burn the DVD version of Knoppix) and make friend with someone who does have high speed access. Or they may even be able to download ISO files at their public library or other Internet access point.

[Azalea]

Sorry for not posting in a few days, but I have gotten it to work. The boot is slow, but afterwards it works just fine.

Whenever I decide I need another LiveCD, I'll download and burn it myself.

Thank you for telling me about this problem.