Buying preinstalled bootable USB drive vs. making own?

[Krellan2]

I've seen many places sell preinstalled USB thumb drives, containing a known-good copy of Knoppix, at a price that's a few dollars over the retail price of the equivalent blank.

The preinstalled USB drives, of course, would be installed correctly the first time, pre-tested to make sure they boot, checked all sectors to make sure they are free of errors, and so on.

My question is, if you've bought or made yourself a bootable USB thumb drive, how much (if anything) you would be willing to pay for this convenience?

I'm kind of kicking myself for not going into business a few years ago, when I first wrote the "Bootable USB Key" page, and had to field so many questions from people who really wanted a bootable Knoppix USB drive but couldn't quite figure out how to make it on their own. I should have started a little side business, selling preinstalled USB drives with Knoppix ready to go.

I attached a survey to this posting. Please fill it in. If you've ever considered paying for a known-good bootable USB key, vs. making it yourself, please fill in the amount of money you were willing to pay. This is a bottom-line comparison of final retail prices (so, tax and shipping should already be included in the price comparisons). Also, assume the shipping is fairly fast, equivalent at least to US first-class mail (around two-three days for a small item like a USB thumb drive).

Thanks!

Josh

[Harry Kuhman]

I generally buy my flash devices on sale and at a much better price than "retail", so even if I were inclined to buy rather than build my own my answer would be "less than retail". But it is important to be able to build your own, otherwise you'll be buying a new flash drive every time a new version of Knoppix comes out.

I don't know how involved Knoppix is in this area, but Puppy linux has a great script on the CD that builds a bootable flash drive from one command (and works with much smaller flash drives than Knoppix). If building a Knoppix flash drive is not that simple, it should be, and someone should be able to provide us with such a script. This seems to me the best route; get whatever size and speed flash drive that you like as long as it is large enough, and you get to pick other features like extra small size or improved ruggedness, and build your own. Rebuild it when a new version of Knoppix is out.

[Krellan2]

I generally buy my flash devices on sale and at a much better price than "retail", so even if I were inclined to buy rather than build my own my answer would be "less than retail". But it is important to be able to build your own, otherwise you'll be buying a new flash drive every time a new version of Knoppix comes out.

Very good point. When I said "retail" in the poll above, that's what I meant: the price one would actually pay when buying the flash drives, assuming one was a good shopper and got things on sale. I didn't mean "retail" as in "full retail price".

I don't know how involved Knoppix is in this area, but Puppy linux has a great script on the CD that builds a bootable flash drive from one command (and works with much smaller flash drives than Knoppix). If building a Knoppix flash drive is not that simple, it should be, and someone should be able to provide us with such a script. This seems to me the best route; get whatever size and speed flash drive that you like as long as it is large enough, and you get to pick other features like extra small size or improved ruggedness, and build your own. Rebuild it when a new version of Knoppix is out.

You're right about that. The situation was different about 3 years ago, when I first wrote the page. Puppy Linux had just barely came out. These days, even Knoppix now has a script to make a flash drive bootable. I thought about writing such a script for Knoppix, but as of Knoppix 6, they beat me to it

[netzen]

My question is, if you've bought or made yourself a bootable USB thumb drive, how much (if anything) you would be willing to pay for this convenience?
Josh

Interesting question.

Josh, I believe that some "price" should exist for the service.
How much it can be I cannot grasp, besides having some ideas about the subject.

Last year I had an idea based on my interest in "LiveCDs" and "LiveUSBs", here is the idea in full:
(I named it, the L2-BIOS [level 2 BIOS])
http://sites.google.com/site/l2bios/

Here a illustration:


I think there is market for it, if you can make a service package, other than just trying to sell the pre-installed USB.

Anyway, it is interesting to know the development of this topic.
Thanks for bringing it here.

Regards,
Valter

[netzen]

I'm kind of kicking myself for not going into business a few years ago, when I first wrote the "Bootable USB Key" page, and had to field so many questions from people who really wanted a bootable Knoppix USB drive but couldn't quite figure out how to make it on their own. I should have started a little side business, selling preinstalled USB drives with Knoppix ready to go.

Josh

Think again and keep the thinking. It still a good time for this idea, at least in my oppinion.
Take a look of the graph evolution for the term "live usb" on Google Insights For Search:
http://www.google.com/insights/searc...e%20usb&cmpt=q

It's still growing and gaining momentum.

Valter

[Clinton]

Interesting. I, of course, recommend people visit our own page to learn how to get Knoppix for free and then, if they prefer to buy, we recommend they use our preferred supplier. I earn a small commission when people make a purchase using that link.

I've just done a quick check of prices. New blanks seem to range in price from $10 to $17 for a quality 2 GB (excluding special offers, closing down sales and other exceptional opportunities). Our supplier is charging $15.95 for a USB with Knoppix. That's about $2.45 more than the average price I found for blanks.

However, it's important to take shipping cost into account and that's where the bought option looks more attractive - with our supplier the shipping is free to anywhere in the world. That may put it on price par with blanks bought elsewhere, maybe even cheaper in some cases (particularly if you're paying for shipping to somewhere outside of the US).

Summary: Base it on how long you estimate it will take you to create the USB yourself (add time for ordering if you don't already have a free flash drive). Bear in mind that not everybody seems to grasp md5 checks etc. I recently helped someone unfamiliar with all this. He spent more than a couple of hours reading our downloading FAQs, getting familiar what the whole bit torrent concept, setting up a torrent, learning about md5 checks, finding and installing an md5 check program ... and he still ended up with a non-working copy of Knoppix. It was a frustrating and stressful experience for him.

Some would benefit from going through the whole process and acquiring some new skills. That's particularly true of the regular poster here - the type of people who are likely to respond to this poll. S/he is tech savvy, has used some flavour of Linux before, likes to learn new things, has the patience to try various commands out to see what works.... Others may just want to get on with it - their goal may be just to recover data from their crashed PC and not to learn new stuff. If you're the latter you may not ever see this thread but you may be willing to pay $50 for a Knoppix boot CD at your local shop on a Sunday evening if it helps you recover that thesis you need to submit tomorrow.

[Krellan2]

Last year I had an idea based on my interest in "LiveCDs" and "LiveUSBs", here is the idea in full:
(I named it, the L2-BIOS [level 2 BIOS])
http://sites.google.com/site/l2bios/

Interesting idea about L2-BIOS.

I had a similar idea around 2005 or so, but never wrote it up online.

My idea was called "PreOS". It would be a tiny, self-contained operating system, whose sole purpose would be to boot another OS, from any and all possible sources. It would do these functions:

* Walk all of the various busses (PCI, USB, FireWire, etc.) and discover all attached devices
* Have drivers for several common SATA and SCSI controllers
* Discover all partitions on all attached drives
* Let user choose which partition to boot from, out of all of these
* Option to boot from Ethernet, via PXE, on any Ethernet interface
* Option to boot from USB CD (many BIOS's, to this day, still have trouble with external drives)
* Easy enough to add floppies or ZIP drives, if anyone still cares about them
* Small self-contained Linux installation, boot to a BusyBox shell prompt if nothing else works, for troubleshooting
* Save user's boot choices, and use them automatically next time

In other words, PreOS would be doing what the BIOS was supposed to do, except this time, get it right!

Interestingly, my motherboard has a small little bit of flash memory on it, that runs before the BIOS. It's called "Splashtop", and it's a form of Linux! Unfortunately, stupidly, it's completely locked down, making it useless. I'd love to install Knoppix, or something like that, to this special area of memory.

[Krellan2]

Interesting. I, of course, recommend people visit our own page to learn how to get Knoppix for free and then, if they prefer to buy, we recommend they use our preferred supplier. I earn a small commission when people make a purchase using that link.

I've just done a quick check of prices. New blanks seem to range in price from $10 to $17 for a quality 2 GB (excluding special offers, closing down sales and other exceptional opportunities). Our supplier is charging $15.95 for a USB with Knoppix. That's about $2.45 more than the average price I found for blanks.

Thanks, I saw your addition of the sponsored link to the page a while ago. I wouldn't want to intrude on your business, and realize it's what pays the bills and keeps this site online.

Those margins are rather tight, so there's not a lot of money to be made by selling USB keys preinstalled with Knoppix (or something else) on them.

Summary: Base it on how long you estimate it will take you to create the USB yourself (add time for ordering if you don't already have a free flash drive). Bear in mind that not everybody seems to grasp md5 checks etc. I recently helped someone unfamiliar with all this. He spent more than a couple of hours reading our downloading FAQs, getting familiar what the whole bit torrent concept, setting up a torrent, learning about md5 checks, finding and installing an md5 check program ... and he still ended up with a non-working copy of Knoppix. It was a frustrating and stressful experience for him.

That's true, it can be an intimidating and time-consuming process to learn. I'm sure there are people who would want to just quickly buy their way out of the problem. I go to a mechanic to have my car repaired, for the same reason: I could, given time, do it myself, but there would be way too many false starts and mistakes made.

Some would benefit from going through the whole process and acquiring some new skills. That's particularly true of the regular poster here - the type of people who are likely to respond to this poll. S/he is tech savvy, has used some flavour of Linux before, likes to learn new things, has the patience to try various commands out to see what works.... Others may just want to get on with it - their goal may be just to recover data from their crashed PC and not to learn new stuff. If you're the latter you may not ever see this thread but you may be willing to pay $50 for a Knoppix boot CD at your local shop on a Sunday evening if it helps you recover that thesis you need to submit tomorrow.

Very true, by the very fact that the reader has found this forum, they're interested in learning more. So, the poll here is probably not accurate, given the biased audience.

I'm thinking of starting a little side business that wouldn't require the sale of USB keys at all. Rather, it would be an *exchange* of USB keys.

The customer would mail me a USB key, along with a SASE (self-addressed stamped envelope) and a small amount of money. I install Knoppix, and perhaps also PortableApps, make sure it boots, and that everything is correct, and mail them back the USB key. Quick turnaround, and they wouldn't have to pay the cost of a new USB key.

Would there be any interest in this?

Josh

[netzen]

I'm thinking of starting a little side business that wouldn't require the sale of USB keys at all. Rather, it would be an *exchange* of USB keys.

The customer would mail me a USB key, along with a SASE (self-addressed stamped envelope) and a small amount of money. I install Knoppix, and perhaps also PortableApps, make sure it boots, and that everything is correct, and mail them back the USB key. Quick turnaround, and they wouldn't have to pay the cost of a new USB key.

Would there be any interest in this?
Josh

Josh, the "fill and refill" service seems more "attractive" than the selling of USBKeys, at least you don't compete in price with other shops, avoiding great part of the barriers... and creating something that don't exist yet...

Perhaps this is the direction to go...

Valter

[netzen]

I had a similar idea around 2005 or so, but never wrote it up online.

My idea was called "PreOS". It would be a tiny, self-contained operating system, whose sole purpose would be to boot another OS, from any and all possible sources. It would do these functions:

In other words, PreOS would be doing what the BIOS was supposed to do, except this time, get it right!

Interestingly, my motherboard has a small little bit of flash memory on it, that runs before the BIOS. It's called "Splashtop", and it's a form of Linux! Unfortunately, stupidly, it's completely locked down, making it useless. I'd love to install Knoppix, or something like that, to this special area of memory.

Josh, the “PreOS” seems interesting (at least for somebody like me).

In fact, believe me or not, I have one “splash O.S.” prototype done!
It’s working.
Core only 6MB, boots up in 3 seconds (Celeron 3.3GHz).

My name: SubiTux = Subito Tux or Subito O.S.

The word "subito" means: suddenly; without or with few intermediaries.
It's goal is to be very, very simple and easy, and, of course, small.

Anybody (well, almost) can compile it from source (53 minutes to core).
This is the GUI One-Click-Compiler:


You can read about here:
http://sites.google.com/site/subitux/

And this was the old, initial docs:
[Going Beyond The LiveUSB]
http://sites.google.com/site/networkbricks/

[The Original “first prototype”]
http://sites.google.com/site/netbrixlinux/

All source and scripts is open.

I have more few docs and 3 small videos to upload to YouTube, please just wait a few days (or hours) and I will be compiling all the info (more) into a cohesive and more easy to read documentation. These first pages just “happen” last 12 months and I was unable to make them “palatable” and easy.

The prototype was entirely based on the document “Slitaz From Scratch Book” with my ideas blended (the One-Click-Compiler, the network bricks, the Subito idea and others).

I hope to compile a decent set of pages with all infos easily readable in the next few days, and to make a more “de facto prototype” for the public soon. For now, all the stuff is there for download.

Valter

*Former name was Net-Brix, from network bricks, changed to avoid conflict.