new dependency based boot problems

**nobodie** · 03-14-2010, 10:49 AM

Just tried to upgrade through apt-get and failed with problems with the new dependency based bootup stuff. This is a 6.2 DVD on a 8GB USB stick with no changes that I recall. It seems to be failing on a number of apps that don't have LSB in the config for that app. But then again maybe i just don't really understand the error messages in the setup console. Has anyone else run into this and is there a solution that would save me from fussiing too much?
thanks

**Capricorny** · 03-14-2010, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by nobodie

Just tried to upgrade through apt-get and failed with problems with the new dependency based bootup stuff. This is a 6.2 DVD on a 8GB USB stick with no changes that I recall. It seems to be failing on a number of apps that don't have LSB in the config for that app. But then again maybe i just don't really understand the error messages in the setup console. Has anyone else run into this and is there a solution that would save me from fussiing too much?
thanks

I would simply never try that with Knoppix.
Even with ordinary installs (Debian, Fedora, Mandriva...), attempts at upgrades have given me far more troubles than benefits.
I believe the simplest way to upgrade, is to save the packages selection, eventual init stuff and your personal data. Then install a new version, save the new packeges selection and take the diff with the old package selection. You might make an attempt at just installing this packages lists altogether, but there may be problems. And some may be obsoleted, restrctured etc.

**nobodie** · 03-14-2010, 02:44 PM

well, silly or not i did do it. Actually i have run the $sudo apt-get upgrade a few times since i put this on the stick and it worked fine. It just doesn't like the dependency based boot system that snuck in with sid (i am guessing about that, i have had terrible luck with sidux in the past and generally steer clear of it, but i noticed a few sid repos enabled in this stick.)

Anyway, i can do nothing without finishing dpkg --configure -a to finish the upgrade and the debian page for this problem (<http://wiki.debian.org/LSBInitScripts/DependencyBasedBoot> ) is looking like too much time to work through when I don't really care to have the Depbasedboot. So, should I just reload the knoppix DVD? Suppose I shall, and check the repos before i do that again.

Thanks corny one, if you have more to add i'll check back in a few minutes but i'll reload the DVD now anyway

**Capricorny** · 03-15-2010, 01:22 AM

Actually i have run the $sudo apt-get upgrade a few times since i put this on the stick and it worked fine.

Sure, up to some point in time it will usually work perfectly. Then... something gets broken. I have tried it a few times some months after the release, crashes every time for me.
You may also manage to get a bit further by cherry-picking repositories, but I just wonder, is it really worth it?

I think the best thing is to start afresh. I would just have turned to 6.3 now (provided no fat new bugs are found - those known in 6.2.1 seem to have fairly simple workarounds), keeping lists of updated packages.
My own update policy is to do it on an individual package basis, and only as needed - with lots of updates pending, rather switch to a new release, where all versions are supposedly in sync at packaging time. In practice, I don't think it is that much worse than what I have with Mandriva's almost continous updates - but it can surely be considered a weakness.

**Capricorny** · 03-15-2010, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Capricorny

Actually i have run the $sudo apt-get upgrade a few times since i put this on the stick and it worked fine.

Sure, up to some point in time it will usually work perfectly. Then... something gets broken. I have tried it a few times some months after the release, crashes every time for me.
You may also manage to get a bit further by cherry-picking repositories, but I just wonder, is it really worth it?

There is also the problem of the persistent image getting filled up with those updates - that may often be a reason for crash, at least with DVD versions, where the update volume easily exceeds 4 GB.

I think the best thing is to start afresh. I would just have turned to 6.3 now (provided no fat new bugs are found - those known in 6.2.1 seem to have fairly simple workarounds), keeping lists of updated packages.
My own update policy is to do it on an individual package basis, and only as needed - with lots of updates pending, rather switch to a new release, where all versions are supposedly in sync at packaging time. In practice, I don't think it is that much worse than what I have with Mandriva's almost continous updates - but it can surely be considered a weakness.

**nobodie** · 03-15-2010, 09:56 AM

I do know what you mean with upgrading, i run debian for myself,ubuntu for my wife, kubuntu for my daughter and fedora here at work and seldom do major version upgrades work at all, especially since i hand build my boxes for home (but not for work). It really isn't a big problem since this is a USB stick and i don't expect to be storing much on it. It exists simply to solve the problem of multitasking on the school's windows computers in the classroom. I am very pleased with how it has worked to date and plan on using it on the stick for quite a while.
Thanks for your helpful comments

**Capricorny** · 03-15-2010, 09:04 PM

In your situation, I think the simplest is to just reload the stick with the newest version without show-stopping bugs. I had to keep a few sticks running for a while, as there were things that worked in 6.0.1 that didn't in 6.2 and vice versa, making it necessary for me to switch between them. But that was fairly easy, no comparison to the problems when similar things happened in Mandriva.

And 6.2.1 seems to be mostly fine, I don't need to run anything else. But I have, for example, to disable Compiz in some cases. I think it may be a bit risky to try to keep the persistent image intact between releases. But I have added two extra images myself, which then are in no way directly integrated with the Knoppix stuff proper, and those images can be kept, and also used for storage of configuration and user data when the version is changed. Typically, on one of the images I have version and deb package independent things like Java, Groovy, Grails, Tomcat and Eclipse. And I store copies of /etc/rc.local, /etc/init.d/* and files or links added to /usr/local. I haven't figured a good way to store package selection data yet, but I hope to make the installation of additional programs with each new release more automatic.

As you see, updating/upgrading has a very small place in this scheme, and I intend to keep it that way. For me, this is the closest I have got to a hassle-free, stable and up-to-date Linux system running with minimum maintenance overhead.