loadlin-like loading of knoppix from a win2k/NT/XP session

[garyng]

I did a partial test of the NTFS capable grub(well I just installed it on a floppy) and it seems to be working as I can boot load a kernel/initrd pair stored on NTFS partition which then do the usual search(KNOPPIX way) of the real root system just fine.

The win32 installation part seems to have some problems but I cannot test as I don't have a C:\ with NTFS. NT's boot loader does not honour the chain boot to a boot sector on file trick if I stored the 512 byte file on D:\. NT thought I want it to load NT/XP and bark about missing hal.dll

If you want to try, I can find a way to send you the 3 files(one win32, and two grub image stage1 and stage2). All that is needed is a c:\ with NTFS. The process itself is non-intrusive as the win32 program just modify the regular file stage1/stage2 under NT/XP and won't touch the boot record etc.

[mack]

If you want to try, I can find a way to send you the 3 files(one win32, and two grub image stage1 and stage2). All that is needed is a c:\ with NTFS. The process itself is non-intrusive as the win32 program just modify the regular file stage1/stage2 under NT/XP and won't touch the boot record etc.

I'll install the above in vmware. Just send me the files and tell me how to install them from win2k. I'll post the results here.

I see we can't PM here for some reason so I'll have to publish an email address here. Excuse my ugly way of doing so. Your shell will handle it

Mail `host -t TXT knoppix.unpatched.org|sed -n 's/.*"\(.*\)"/\1/gp'`

Hopefully, spambots don't execute shell commands yet. (As a matter of fact, I can't wait for them to start doing that.

[garyng]

I spent the weekend to fix this XP patch and now can install GRUB on either FAT or NTFS under XP. Should also work under W2K/NT but definitely not 95/98/ME(they are cripped win32 that the program will not run) where I believe loadlin is a better solution.

GRUB now gives me more flexibility to test out linux on my 'Microsoft' controlled HD, comparing with LILO which requires me to rerun under linux whenever I want to add a new kernel/initrd combination.

I would mail you the files after I clean them up a bit. Too bad I can't find a place where I can setup a website so people can download from there as I believe it would be quite useful for situation where booting from floppy/cd-rom is disable. A KNOPPIX like system can slip into an XP machine by :

xcopy stage1 c:\boot\stage1
xcopy stage2 c:\boot\stage2
xcopy xpgrub.exe c:\boot\grub\
xcopy menu.lst c:\boot\grub\
c:\boot\grub\xpgrub
echo 'c:\boot\stage1="linux"' >> c:\boot.ini

and on the next boot up, KNOPPIX can take over.

Of course, the menu.lst must be prepared.

In fact, I learnt a neat trick on GRUB mailing list that I can boot a CD-ROM from GRUB through Smart Boot Manager for those non-IDE CD-ROMs like PCMCIA connected one(that is the feature of SBM), or as mentioned a machine with CD-ROM booting disabled. So it is possible to just have grub(and friends installed) and boot KNOPPIX CD from there. Of course, for odd CD-ROMs, the initrd in the KNOPPIX CD needs to be changed to load the proper drivers before it start the search of itself

[mack]

I spent the weekend to fix this XP patch and now can install GRUB on either FAT or NTFS under XP. Should also work under W2K/NT but definitely not 95/98/ME(they are cripped win32 that the program will not run) where I believe loadlin is a better solution.

Great. I also had a knoppix weekend - was debugging what seems to be an evil race bug in the xsession-knoppix package. Will post on that in a new thread.

Do you need a test environment for testing it with win2k (C:\ = NTFS) ?

When xpgrub fails (on 95/98/ME), does it do any damage or does it just exit with some error code ? If it fails gracefully, the script can detect it and assume 95/98/ME (or maybe there's a better way to detect windows version. I'm not familiar with windows but I'm sure it has something equiv to uname(1)). Once the script figures a dos-based version of windows is in place, it will add a boot option with loadlin.

I would mail you the files after I clean them up a bit. Too bad I can't find a place where I can setup a website so people can download from there as I believe it would be quite useful for situation where booting from floppy/cd-rom is disable. A KNOPPIX like system can slip into an XP machine by :

Cool! I think knoppix (and other systems) will benefit from that.
Re website for it, I'll create a dir for it on a server here. Mail me the content you want there.

In fact, I learnt a neat trick on GRUB mailing list that I can boot a CD-ROM from GRUB through Smart Boot Manager for those non-IDE CD-ROMs like PCMCIA connected one(that is the feature of SBM), or as mentioned a machine with CD-ROM booting disabled. So it is possible to just have grub(and friends installed) and boot KNOPPIX CD from there. Of course, for odd CD-ROMs, the initrd in the KNOPPIX CD needs to be changed to load the proper drivers before it start the search of itself

yes, Smart Boot Manager looks cool. However, as far as I can tell it has no USB support yet. I already modified the initrd to support the USB cdrom, but since Smart Boot Manager won't be able to handle it by itself, I'll just use the above script to load vmlinuz+initrd from C:\boot\ and have them handle the USB stuff.

[garyng]

When xpgrub fails (on 95/98/ME), does it do any damage or does it just exit with some error code ? If it fails gracefully, the script can detect it and assume 95/98/ME (or maybe there's a better way to detect windows version. I'm not familiar with windows but I'm sure it has something equiv to uname(1)). Once the script figures a dos-based version of windows is in place, it will add a boot option with loadlin.

unfortunately, it would popup a window system message saying certain function linked in the EXE is not available. it would not do any harm to the system but it can't be a automated operation. If the code is compiled under Microsoft VC environment, I know how to make it more 'installation' friendly but since it is someone else work using cygnus C which I don't know too well, it would be too much effort to change it, for the moment. Of course, if Installshield is being used, it can by itself detect the kind of running OS.

yes, Smart Boot Manager looks cool. However, as far as I can tell it has no USB support yet. I already modified the initrd to support the USB cdrom, but since Smart Boot Manager won't be able to handle it by itself, I'll just use the above script to load vmlinuz+initrd from C:\boot\ and have them handle the USB stuff.

good point. a rescue diskette/CD with the proper driver is better, for booting linux. Though if one wants to boot something off the CD like a XP installation CD still need SBM but then who need that [/quote]

[mack]

unfortunately, it would popup a window system message saying certain function linked in the EXE is not available. it would not do any harm to the system but it can't be a automated operation. If the code is compiled under Microsoft VC environment, I know how to make it more 'installation' friendly but since it is someone else work using cygnus C which I don't know too well, it would be too much effort to change it, for the moment. Of course, if Installshield is being used, it can by itself detect the kind of running OS.

This shouldn't pose a problem. I'm sure there are ways for a .BAT script to detect OS type. Worst case, it can check for existence of command.com or something.

good point. a rescue diskette/CD with the proper driver is better, for booting linux. Though if one wants to boot something off the CD like a XP installation CD still need SBM but then who need that

I see your point, and I feel lucky to be using a flexible OS.

Anyway, I have set up an NTFS-based VM here, ready for testing. Vanilla Win2k (NTFS), nothing else on disk. Will try to use grub and have it load a kernel+initrd from C:\boot\ and hopefully use it to load knoppix from the attached USB CDROM. Just email me once you have something testable and I'll give it a try. (And its ok if it screws things up at first. Thats what vmware's non-persistent mode is for).

[A. Jorge Garcia]

I'm getting an XP lab at school next year. I'd really like to have a desktop icon in XP that does the loadlin thing! Is this possible? I used to have this setup in WIN95 and it worked great!

TIA,

[garyng]

Without VMWARE, you cannot have loadlin equivalent on XP desktop(someone may have the solution but that means a VMWARE GNU equivalent). However, what I am working on allows you to have Linux as a boot option when the machine initially boot up.

This may not sound interesting(one can always boot KNOPPX from CD and do the GRUB/LILO install there) but it does give you the option of installing KNOPPIX on a machine, all from within WIN32 environment. So for labs that have floppy/cd-rom booting disabled, you can still install KNOPPIX on it.

[gabriel_fin]

Due my Laptop bios Admin password is missing and and the HD is encripted with pointsec I cant repartition so I need to recurr to this trick I have winxp pro but cant make a repartition can you give some hints how i can work around , also the files you mention would be great to have them.

Br
Gabriel Vergara

If you want to try, I can find a way to send you the 3 files(one win32, and two grub image stage1 and stage2). All that is needed is a c:\ with NTFS. The process itself is non-intrusive as the win32 program just modify the regular file stage1/stage2 under NT/XP and won't touch the boot record etc.

I'll install the above in vmware. Just send me the files and tell me how to install them from win2k. I'll post the results here.

I see we can't PM here for some reason so I'll have to publish an email address here. Excuse my ugly way of doing so. Your shell will handle it

Mail `host -t TXT knoppix.unpatched.org|sed -n 's/.*"\(.*\)"/\1/gp'`

Hopefully, spambots don't execute shell commands yet. (As a matter of fact, I can't wait for them to start doing that.

[garyng]

Go to here http://www.skyjammer.com/files/knoppix/ to get the w32grub and follow the instruction and see if you can get GRUB working.

Pointsec you mentioned seems like an encryption mechanism that may not be compatible with GRUB and if that is the case, everything is off. If GRUB work, we can come back and move on to the next stage.

Due my Laptop bios Admin password is missing and and the HD is encripted with pointsec I cant repartition so I need to recurr to this trick I have winxp pro but cant make a repartition can you give some hints how i can work around , also the files you mention would be great to have them.

Br
Gabriel Vergara

If you want to try, I can find a way to send you the 3 files(one win32, and two grub image stage1 and stage2). All that is needed is a c:\ with NTFS. The process itself is non-intrusive as the win32 program just modify the regular file stage1/stage2 under NT/XP and won't touch the boot record etc.

I'll install the above in vmware. Just send me the files and tell me how to install them from win2k. I'll post the results here.

I see we can't PM here for some reason so I'll have to publish an email address here. Excuse my ugly way of doing so. Your shell will handle it

Mail `host -t TXT knoppix.unpatched.org|sed -n 's/.*"\(.*\)"/\1/gp'`

Hopefully, spambots don't execute shell commands yet. (As a matter of fact, I can't wait for them to start doing that.