My computer runs without M$

**Cuddles** · 12-25-2003, 03:48 PM

Considering this whole thread on using M$ and Debian/Knoppix/Linux - and the pro's and con's of having a complete one or the other system...

I just realized something

Ever since I've gotten my WinModem to work within HD installed Knoppix/Debian - I HAVEN'T HAD TO REBOOT, or SHUTDOWN, or EVEN LEAVE KNOPPIX

I did apt-get updates, and updated everything - taking as much a 2 hours of d/l's to get Debian up to current security, d/l a firewall, d/l and installed kernel drivers for my modem, forced them into the kernel, and NOT ONCE, needed to reboot - THAT IS AMAZING (in the world of Windoze it is!)

Everytime you do anything in Windoze, it usually is best, even if it doesn't require it, to reboot - mostly I think its to ensure you can still BOOT.

And this is the real kicker, something that I just realized, I AM STILL IN KNOPPIX

I have not needed to leave it, for Windoze, for lack of resources, for lock-ups, for instability, for nothing. I used to have to reboot Windoze if I did ANYTHING. If I even thought of running a program in Windoze, I had to reboot.

Knoppix/Debian KICKS B*TT -=- People in the Windoze World are missing a lot here -=- And the whole apt-get thing - WOW

This is not only better than SLICED BREAD - BUT - has all the TOPPINGS to boot. This is like ordering a scoop of ice cream, and getting a twelve inch high banana split, with everything on it, for the same price - I can't imagine why I didn't do this sooner than I did

Cuddles

**spydie** · 12-25-2003, 05:16 PM

I can't imagine why I didn't do this sooner than I did

Knoppix/Debian is great

I know why I did not do it sooner.
I had looked at a number of differant OS thinking that I could find something better then windows.
I was always afraid to try them because I know things can go wrong when installing a new OS (window).

Even when it was just going from one M$ OS to another M$ OS it would not always go as smooth as I thought it should have.

When I found Knoppix and read you could run it live from the CD that did it for me.

Never thought you could run a OS live like that.

It gave me a chance to try it out befor doing a HD install. It gave me a change to ask question on the forum and learn a few things befor doing a HD install.

I just did the HD install yesterday and it is even better then running it from the live CD.
Even faster from the HD and now I can store files to my HD too

I do still have winXP running on one of my computer, but that is preaty much for the other family members.
That may change someday too

**Hunkah** · 12-26-2003, 02:51 AM

I am still afraid. I can do everything in windows that I ever need to do. I run all freeware and opensource programs that are available on free DL sites. I have not had a crash in over a year and all is well in my world when it comes to windows. (IT CAN BE DONE!) But that is just it. It has taken me three years of practice and one year of computer college to get to where I am. I know that names of the programs I trust, I know how to manipulate the OS so that if there ever is a problem, I can overcome it without a problem.

In Linux, I am a moron. I know nothing, I don't know the great programs to use, heck I don't even know how to install them. I have been reading and probing Linux sites for 4 - 5 months now and it was only Knoppix that allowed me to finally use a linux box for the first time. But I still feel paralyzed with linux. I can't use my superman abilities, and I don't know the language.

That is why I am afraid. I want so much to cross the bridge, but I can't. I do a lot with my computer. Having to relearn EVERYTHING all over is very time consuming and hard to do. I can do anything I need to in seconds with Windows. But with Linux, I would be lucky to do it in under an hour.

If there was only a way to just learn the basics with a simple instruction and two or three examples or illustrations. It is hard to find a website with "This is how it is in Windows - This is how it is in Linux"

Merry Christmas Everyone.

**tearinghairout** · 12-26-2003, 04:24 AM

OK Hunkah
Here are your tasks.

1. You have folder with about 2000 files, all called something like img9999.jpeg where 9999 is some four digit number. Rename all of them to be img9999.jpg (note e taken out) where 9999 is the same as it was before.

2. You have a file with about 10,000 lines containing events that have happened on your system in chronological order. Let's call it your event log. Because one of your services has gone haywire - say your DNS is badly configured - and is spewing errors every second, 99% of your file contains lines that say "DNS error of some sort". You don't particularly care about the DNS errors, but you want to know about any other errors that occured. Produce a list of the non-DNS errors, still in chronological order.

3. You have some text files on your hard disk that have a certain word in them, in fact there are lots and lots of them, possibly thousands. Get an exact count.

4. You suspect there might be some virus or nefarious user on your system starting up processes they shouldn't. For each process running on your system, find out which other process started it off. Oh, and print the list out to your printer.

Please explain how you would do the above "in seconds" on a windows machine.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound too harsh, but if you took the time to learn, you would realise how pitiful your windows superman powers were compared to a proficient UNIX/Linux user.

Merry Christmas.

**A. Jorge Garcia** · 12-26-2003, 02:35 PM

THO,

Don't you think it would be more convincing if you explained just how you do all the above?

Regards,

**Cuddles** · 12-26-2003, 02:57 PM

Hunkah,

I understand where you are coming from, I have been their. Superman is great, he can do fantastic things, but, he is also vulnerable, one thing makes him worse than even a human being, cryptonite.

What I am trying to say is, Superman to Cryptonite, is the same as Win[fill in your version] is to you and your computer. I used DOS from 1.12 to current, and Win3.1 up to Win98. I am very proficient in it, even to the point I can "manually" install software that fails to install by means of its own Setup.Inf file. I know where things go, and I know what things go bad. Problem: this is all well and good, but it becomes a crutch. Did you know that M$ Win[any version] saves data on your system that keeps track of what sites you visit? Of what search engines you use, and even, what searches you have done? Worse yet, even deleted emails, with any attachments, are still being stored on your system? What does all this mean? Someone who knows where these files are, can, read them, behind your back, and possibly, without your knowledge. When you do an Internter Explorer delete all previous online, and offline, content, it DOES NOT clear out these files.

You have been lulled into a false sense of security, by Windows, and M$. You do not have a clue who, or what, those programs (really) do, and worse yet, they have access to EVERYTHING on your system. Heck, forget about, for the moment, Viruses, I am just talking about the OS and any installed programs that, as you say, you trust.

Linux/Knoppix/Red Hat/Debian/etc... are Unix (big system) OS's that have been tailored down to work on a PC. But, they still have the "juice" from Unix. Knoppix/Debian is a multiuser, multitasking, multiEverything - server, that still can be used as a "big server" but can also be used by a single user. Every program that installs into Linux has an author, a contact, a person, and you can view that information from the point of pre-install to years after you are running it, from within Linux. That is power, but more importantly, its accountability. Some programs in Windows, I have a few, you have to view a readme file, and hope you aren't stranded for answers, or a point to contact when the programs goes haywire.

I could go on, but, I would suggest, I have this book, it gets your feet wet, and brings a newbie in the world of Linux, up to a nice Novice, is "Welcome to Linux - Kiss the blue screen of death goodbye" - or something like that. It starts out simple, for those who never worked in a GUI like Windows. But, it covers installing the Linux "flavor" of your choice, passwords, accounts, users, permissions, a good portion of the Linux Commands, and some of the "common" GUI programs that are in Linux, Debian, Red Hat, Mandrake, etc...

You may find, Linux is not as hard as you think, and your Superman status, you may find, is not only still intact, but, that you have lost the vulnerability to cryptonite as well.

One final note, when have you tried to find a program in Windows, only to find out that you have to pay for it? Linux is the same way, but in most cases, its free. Even better, you can get the Source Code, and change it to your liking. Even Knoppix is this way. Look around some of the Forum's on this site, many have "tailored" Knoppix to special needs, and then released those changes for the masses to use. This is RADICALLY different than in the Windows World. Free. Free to use, Free to examine, Free to change, Free to add, Free to redistribute. Gee, do you have a clue what everything in Windows does? In Knoppix/Linux/etc... you can, just look. Openness. Nothing to hide. No secrets. No hidden code. I like it, its nice to have it, and all with accountability.

Try it my friend, I think you'll like it :P
Cuddles

**tearinghairout** · 12-26-2003, 03:54 PM

A. Jorge Garcia

I thought that people may enjoy the challenge of trying to figure these out for themselves first.

Answers are here for those who are interested.

No doubt someone will point a better way of doing these things, but I guess that's one of the great things about UNIX/Linux/Knoppix.

Enjoy

**Hunkah** · 12-28-2003, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by tearinghairout

OK Hunkah
Here are your tasks.

Here are the answers to your questions.

1. Why would I ever need to do this?

2. I don't have DNS problems, maybe because you are using Linux, that is why you are getting these errors?

3. Again, why would I want to do that!? Your questions are doing nothing to help me or encourage me to use Linux!

4. I know I don't have this problem, if you think you can do this to my Windows machine, come on in! You can't!!! I am invisable!

Originally Posted by tearinghairout

Please explain how you would do the above "in seconds" on a windows machine.

I said "Everything I NEED to do I can do in seconds! You are so into bashing windows you have become useless in encouraging me to use Linux!

Originally Posted by Cuddles

Did you know that M$ Win[any version] saves data on your system that keeps track of what sites you visit? Of what search engines you use, and even, what searches you have done? Worse yet, even deleted emails, with any attachments, are still being stored on your system? What does all this mean? Someone who knows where these files are, can, read them, behind your back, and possibly, without your knowledge. When you do an Internter Explorer delete all previous online, and offline, content, it DOES NOT clear out these files.

You have been lulled into a false sense of security, by Windows, and M$. You do not have a clue who, or what, those programs (really) do, and worse yet, they have access to EVERYTHING on your system. Heck, forget about, for the moment, Viruses, I am just talking about the OS and any installed programs that, as you say, you trust.

Yes I know about the data that is saved in my computer and I "can and do" remove it daily, I know too how to bypass this "flaw" and it doesn't affect me.

I have not been lolled into a false sense of security by anyone. I know the problems with windows.
So... I challenge you to hack me! Try it!!! You can't!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Cuddles

One final note, when have you tried to find a program in Windows, only to find out that you have to pay for it? Linux is the same way, but in most cases, its free. Even better, you can get the Source Code, and change it to your liking.

I trust the programs on my computer because I don't use paid for programs, I run a completly "free" computer (with the exception of the OS) I use open source or freeware (not shareware, adware, or spyware) programs. I have no open ports, holes, security issues, viruses, worms or trojans.

I say it again, I don't know Linux, I know windows. Everything you have said does nothing to encourage me or help me want to learn Linux. If I wasn't as secure with my abilities or myself, I would have been upset by your comments and never come back. I agree that windows has too much of a hold in this industry, and Linux is the answer. But right now it isn't an easy answer. It is a difficult to learn hard to grasp answer. Linux is growing stronger and wiser as the years pass. But it still needs to grow up a bit (as well as some of its users) Understand that I am not mad, or taking pot shots at you guys, I am just saying Windows didn't become the best because it sucks, it is easy to use. You telling me that windows sucks does nothing to encourage me to use Linux. Telling me that Linux is better than Windows does nothing to help me learn Linux.

What I wanted to know, was if there is an easy (quick and dirty) "This is the Windows way - This is Linux way" lesson. One that assumes you know about windows, but don't know how to apply or convert that knowledge to the Linux world.

BTW thanks for the help.

**Cuddles** · 12-28-2003, 01:05 PM

Hunkah,

You seem to have just read the posts, from a "Windows Basher" point of you yourself.

I stated, in my post that you so well quoted from, and may I add, seemed to have steped around, in any of these quotes.

I will paraphrase - since I don't have this whole quote thing down... No, wait a minute, I will cut and paste, you can locate the exact orifinal post I made in this thread...

...
I could go on, but, I would suggest, I have this book, it gets your feet wet, and brings a newbie in the world of Linux, up to a nice Novice, is "Welcome to Linux - Kiss the blue screen of death goodbye" - or something like that. It starts out simple, for those who never worked in a GUI like Windows. But, it covers installing the Linux "flavor" of your choice, passwords, accounts, users, permissions, a good portion of the Linux Commands, and some of the "common" GUI programs that are in Linux, Debian, Red Hat, Mandrake, etc...
...

Now, I DID mention a resource for, as I originally stated, "getting your feet wet" - I DID NOT MENTION in the original post, that, it ALSO can be used by people WHO HAVE used a GUI like Windows - but then again - I have been using Windows, and the book has helped me out.

I refuse to play with someone who is just looking for a way to get "someone's goat", and then simply turn the words around and say "you just are bashing windows..."

You keep your windows, I will keep my Linux, enough said,
Cuddles