Important questions on Linux

[art]

Cuddles:

Knoppix v3.4 tobe released in May will have auto install feature; and a 3 CD set is that correct? Are all programs on asingle Knoppix ver3.3 CD compressed as opposed to Debian or any other Distro? Knoppix works for me right nowon CD I was wondering which to install on HD.

Art

[Cuddles]

I do know that Knoppix does compress onto the CD, not sure, but I think it may be around 2 gig, squashed down to 700meg. (that would be around 3 non-compressed CD's)

Hmmm, I like Knoppix. (it IS Debian in fact)

About a month ago, I was considering what Linux to install, I had looked at Mandrake, Red Hat, Debian, and had been running Knoppix from just the CD.

I even posted, either in this forum, or it might have been in The Lounge, you can search for it if you want, but, I got a reply, why not use Knoppix - heck, you already have it in hand, you don't have to do anything else, buy, or download.

I went with that advice, and I can easily say, I don't regret it. It wasn't that difficult to install, and I have had a lot of "features" that the "others" have, and been able to install everything I find as packages/software. As far as I am concerned, I have, and am running, Debian - just a couple of revisions ahead of what "Debian" releases, and have not been worse for it.

Knoppix has a good selling feature, you try it, get used to it, and if you want to go "all the way" with it, you already have it in-hand. Kind of like those "crippled" shareware programs, you buy the key, and the "crippled" part is removed, nothing more to download, nothing to change, or get, in addition to what you already have. After having the "key", the full-blown program is miraculously made available. The Live CD of Knoppix is good, don't get me wrong, but after you install it to the hard drive, it opens up so many more, and such much more, avenues of itself.

Heck, I installed Knoppix, on my old system, on a seperate hard drive, a small 8 gig, alongside my 30gig that had Win98 on it. I did this unless I hosed Knoppix, or didn't like it, I could have easily blown the drive away, and gone back to using it for Windows. But, I liked it so much, I bought a new computer, with a 41gig hard drive and installed Knoppix only on it. I made sure that the new system had an external modem, and a seperate AGP video card slot, in case the motherboard video didn't work, or I didn't like it. Haven't (not too much) regretted the fact that Windows hasn't seen the light of day on this new system, and I can't tell you how long I have kept the new system running without rebooting it, or having any problems with resources, or lock-ups, or etc... Whereas, the old system, for the kids, has been daily requireing reboots just to reclaim lost resources, it went back to Win98, cause the kids are more familiar with it, and their games.

I have had as many as 15 programs running on my Knoppix installation - Xine (dvd player), three arcade games, email, web browser, etc... all without a problem, and when I closed down those programs, my resources were released, can't say the same for Windows, thats for sure.

Cuddles

[windos_no_thanks]

Because the Open Source nv drivers are fine for 2D and the Closed Source ones are great for 3D.

While I'd prefer it if nvidia Open Sourced their drivers, the latest install routines make it pretty easy to remove, update and install them. For 3D in Linux, they're probably your best bet.

Well, the 3D acceleration works nicely with on my Radeon Mobility 9000 based laptop with only open-source drivers, tuxracer works great I'm sure you might be able to get along with using closed stuff too but when the vendor stops issuing new drivers you are stuck with the latest stuff that can use them. Unfortunately most of the new Radeons are not supported so ATI is not exactly a good alternative either...

[Cuddles]

So, Windos_No_Thanks,

Considering a new video card, in my situation, I have an available AGP slot, the best options for someone wanting a good "accelerated" Linux video card, would be along the lines of a nvidia [sp], correct? From what I hear, they are supported pretty well, and give the best bang for the buck.

When we talk about anything in Linux, are we talking about the "chipset" on the device, or the manufacturer of the device? If we are talking about the chipset, how does one "know" that information, if one can not "inspect" the card/device out-of-the-box?

For those wanting to make "good" purchases for a Linux system, shouldn't we translate "chipset" devices into respective manufacturers, so that someone can "safely" buy something, and not get home to find what they just bought is useless????

I may even consider "yanking" out my ATI video from the old machine, let the kids deal with the Win98 system running games on the motherboard video, and putting the ATI into my new system - but then again, the ATI is a PCI, and I could do better if I use the AGP instead.

I'd like to get back to being able to play some of the "accelerated" video games in Linux again, but don't want to get "stung" with a bad purchase.

Oh well, I got to drop my systems, unpile the tower of cabinets, unhook the two systems, and open up my new system, TODAY I install the old 2.0gig Hard Drive that has Win98 already installed, maybe I can get that durn DOS program to run now - Sheesh, what a pain in the b*tt.

Back later,
Cuddles

[windos_no_thanks]

So, Windos_No_Thanks,

Considering a new video card, in my situation, I have an available AGP slot, the best options for someone wanting a good "accelerated" Linux video card, would be along the lines of a nvidia [sp], correct? From what I hear, they are supported pretty well, and give the best bang for the buck.

Currently there are two kinds of video chipset manufacturers: bad and worse
IMO nvidia is in the "worse" category, they don't seem to co-operate with open-source developers trying to develop accelerated drivers at all but provide some pre-compiled stuff instead. That means you probably won't be able to get any updates once they stop selling the particular model you've bought so you'll probably have to use old vestions of Xfree etc also.
(so new versions of your favourite OS distro might not work as expected)
If you are ok with that I guess you might consider nvidia, otherwise I'd suggest checking
http://dri.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/ to get some rough idea of if your card is supported or not. In the case of ati it seems like most models up to 9200 are supported at the moment.

When we talk about anything in Linux, are we talking about the "chipset" on the device, or the manufacturer of the device? If we are talking about the chipset, how does one "know" that information, if one can not "inspect" the card/device out-of-the-box?

For those wanting to make "good" purchases for a Linux system, shouldn't we translate "chipset" devices into respective manufacturers, so that someone can "safely" buy something, and not get home to find what they just bought is useless????

Yes, that can be tricky sometimes. If you can't find out the exact chipset of the card then just don't buy it (and tell the vendor that is the reason you won't buy it). If you are physically visiting a shop bring your knoppix cd and ask if you can try it out, it is always a big plus if they allow you to do that.

[Stephen]

Currently there are two kinds of video chipset manufacturers: bad and worse
IMO nvidia is in the "worse" category, they don't seem to co-operate with open-source developers trying to develop accelerated drivers at all but provide some pre-compiled stuff instead. That means you probably won't be able to get any updates once they stop selling the particular model you've bought so you'll probably have to use old vestions of Xfree etc also.
(so new versions of your favourite OS distro might not work as expected)
If you are ok with that I guess you might consider nvidia, otherwise I'd suggest checking
http://dri.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/ to get some rough idea of if your card is supported or not. In the case of ati it seems like most models up to 9200 are supported at the moment.

Nvidia uses a unified driver which means they have all the supported cards serviced by the one driver and unless they start ripping out the support already built into the driver for cards they no longer sell then they will still be supported.