Backwards Compatibility BUG

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04-18-2012, 06:07 PM
luther

Backwards Compatibility BUG

Forum Members,
WiFi works out-of-the-box w/6.4.3 liveCD:

Code:

knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ sudo modprobe -a ssb knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ sudo modprobe -a b43 knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ sudo lsmod Module Size Used by b43 134859 0 rng_core 2338 1 b43 mac80211 144095 1 b43 cfg80211 95850 2 b43,mac80211 ssb 32414 1 b43 ipv6 196975 10 parport_pc 24132 0 ppdev 4117 0 lp 6119 0 parport 20814 3 parport_pc,ppdev,lp snd_usb_audio 57808 0 snd_hwdep 3950 1 snd_usb_audio tpm_tis 5261 0 snd_usbmidi_lib 12490 1 snd_usb_audio snd_seq_midi 3200 0 tpm 7773 1 tpm_tis snd_rawmidi 12467 2 snd_usbmidi_lib,snd_seq_midi tpm_bios 3347 1 tpm hp_wmi 4393 0 ac 2215 0 battery 7656 0 option 12650 0 usb_wwan 6011 1 option usbserial 21327 2 option,usb_wwan 8139too 14396 0 snd_atiixp_modem 6535 0 sdhci_pci 4801 0 8250_pci 19272 0 8139cp 12900 0 tifm_7xx1 3030 0 sdhci 11970 1 sdhci_pci pcmcia 24250 2 b43,ssb tifm_core 3258 1 tifm_7xx1 mmc_core 43452 3 b43,ssb,sdhci mii 2694 2 8139too,8139cp 8250 14974 1 8250_pci snd_atiixp 8993 1 ohci1394 20984 0 yenta_socket 15616 0 ieee1394 51946 1 ohci1394 serial_core 12542 1 8250 i2c_piix4 6580 0 snd_ac97_codec 77637 2 snd_atiixp_modem,snd_atiixp k8temp 2407 0 joydev 6866 0 ac97_bus 714 1 snd_ac97_codec knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ sudo lsmod Module Size Used by ipv6 196975 10 parport_pc 24132 0 ppdev 4117 0 lp 6119 0 parport 20814 3 parport_pc,ppdev,lp snd_usb_audio 57808 0 snd_hwdep 3950 1 snd_usb_audio tpm_tis 5261 0 snd_usbmidi_lib 12490 1 snd_usb_audio snd_seq_midi 3200 0 tpm 7773 1 tpm_tis snd_rawmidi 12467 2 snd_usbmidi_lib,snd_seq_midi tpm_bios 3347 1 tpm hp_wmi 4393 0 ac 2215 0 battery 7656 0 option 12650 0 usb_wwan 6011 1 option usbserial 21327 2 option,usb_wwan 8139too 14396 0 snd_atiixp_modem 6535 0 sdhci_pci 4801 0 8250_pci 19272 0 8139cp 12900 0 tifm_7xx1 3030 0 sdhci 11970 1 sdhci_pci pcmcia 24250 0 tifm_core 3258 1 tifm_7xx1 mmc_core 43452 1 sdhci mii 2694 2 8139too,8139cp 8250 14974 1 8250_pci snd_atiixp 8993 1 ohci1394 20984 0 yenta_socket 15616 0 ieee1394 51946 1 ohci1394 serial_core 12542 1 8250 i2c_piix4 6580 0 snd_ac97_codec 77637 2 snd_atiixp_modem,snd_atiixp k8temp 2407 0 joydev 6866 0 ac97_bus 714 1 snd_ac97_codec knoppix@Microknoppix:~$

Code:

knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ sudo iwconfig lo no wireless extensions. eth0 no wireless extensions. wlan0 IEEE 802.11bg ESSID:off/any Mode:Managed Access Point: Not-Associated Tx-Power=off Retry long limit:7 RTS thr:off Fragment thr:off Encryption key:off Power Management:off knoppix@Microknoppix:~$

Wifi is Dead-on-arrival w/6.7.1 liveCD:

Code:

knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ sudo modprobe -a ssb knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ sudo modprobe -a b43 WARNING: Module b43 not found. knoppix@Microknoppix:~$

Can someone show in the Debian-Knoppix 6.7.1 open source code
where things related to this bug changed from 6.4.3?

Reply requested, please . . .
04-18-2012, 07:13 PM
klaus2008

What are the kernel versions of Knoppix 6.4.3 and 6.7.1? The command

Code:

uname -a

will show you the details.
04-18-2012, 07:31 PM
utu

@ luther

You've done your job well.
Now we need to find out where the wifi hardware discovery code is
and find someone who can read it.

Also, we need to identify this thread to pertain specifically to Broadcom 4318.
04-18-2012, 08:57 PM
luther

Kernel Version of Knoppix 6.4.3

Quote:

Originally Posted by klaus2008

What are the kernel versions of Knoppix 6.4.3 and 6.7.1? The command

Code:

uname -a

will show you the details.

Code:

knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ sudo uname -a Linux Microknoppix 2.6.36.1 #10 SMP PREEMPT Fri Nov 26 10:33:59 CET 2010 i686 GNU/Linux knoppix@Microknoppix:~$

* sent w/Knoppix 6.4.3 & Iceweasel
04-18-2012, 09:15 PM
luther

Kernel Version of Knoppix 6.7.1

Quote:

Originally Posted by klaus2008

What are the kernel versions of Knoppix 6.4.3 and 6.7.1? The command

Code:

uname -a

will show you the details.

Code:

knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ sudo uname -a Linux Microknoppix 3.0.4 #12 SMP PREEMPT Thu Sep 8 05:27:05 CEST 2011 i686 GNU/Linux knoppix@Microknoppix:~$

** sent w/Knoppix 6.7.1 LiveCD

Yours,
luther
04-18-2012, 10:06 PM
luther

1 Attachment(s)

Chipsets Involved

Quote:

Originally Posted by utu

we need to identify this thread to pertain specifically to Broadcom 4318.

The maintainer says this driver supports these chipsets:
BCM4306/3
BCM4311
BCM4312
BCM4318
* SEE ATTACHMENT
Attachment 97
04-18-2012, 10:19 PM
klaus2008

If you read the kernel configuration file /boot/config-3.0.4 of Knoppix 6.7.1 you will find the line

Quote:

# CONFIG_B43 is not set

That means the needed kernel module was not built. I think that you must build your own Linux kernel with enabled support for your chipset if you want to use your BCM4318 with Knoppix 6.7.1.
04-18-2012, 11:23 PM
utu

Greetings, klaus2008

Are you able to determine why the b43 driver was not
provided as well as the wl driver?

For example, has a simple blacklist caused this not to happen?
Note, BOTH b43 and wl were included in the earlier Knoppix.

As an alternative line of inquiry, where might we find the code that
sets up wl and provides it, and is this code readable bash or
binary?

Thanks.
04-19-2012, 12:25 AM
luther

B43 kernel module was not even built

Quote:

Originally Posted by klaus2008

If you read the kernel configuration file /boot/config-3.0.4 of Knoppix 6.7.1 you will find the line That means the needed kernel module was not built. I think that you must build your own Linux kernel with enabled support for your chipset if you want to use your BCM4318 with Knoppix 6.7.1.

Dear klaus2008: I'm reading between the lines and suspect it was done on purpose. Could it possibly have opened the door to Pandora's Box? This being the case, suspect knoppix 7.0 is in the same boat. I would like a confirmation, please? THX luther

:?:
04-19-2012, 12:47 AM
utu

@ luther & others

Klaus K confirms our suspicions, and luther's homework and is aware of our concerns.
We can probably expect some of his comments and/or remedy sometime in the future.
One might assume Knoppix 7 and his day job probably are keeping him pretty busy
for the moment.

Still, I am tantalized that we see ssb but not b43 in 6.7.1.
It feels like some simple, misplaced blacklist might yet explain it all.

Cheers.
04-19-2012, 12:56 AM
luther

Activate Wifi, Broadcom B43 way

Knoppix forum,

I can only find these OLD Hotlinks to activate Wifi:

http://smtp.knoppix.net/wiki/Network...ppix_5.1.1_FAQ

http://smtp.knoppix.net/wiki/Network...ppix_5.3.1_FAQ

Is there anything NEW, or are the OLD DOCS still valid?

Reply requested, please . . .
04-19-2012, 01:14 AM
utu

@ luther

I think you can stop digging now. See my Post #10.
And, well done.
04-19-2012, 02:22 AM
luther

Hope at last

Quote:

Originally Posted by utu

I think you can stop digging now.

Hey utu!

What's interesting to me, I didn't know Knoppix existed the beginning of 2012.
Then I stumbled across 6.4.3, nicely barried out in cyberspace, somewhere.

Adriane, on this version runs beautiful on a 200MHz, 80MB RAM antique micro.
04-19-2012, 02:51 PM
utu

@ luther

I expect Klaus2008 may be able to show you how, but
building and installing b43 from scratch is probably a more difficult exercise than you want to undertake.

If or when Klaus K tackles this problem, I would expect to see the result around mid-year in an update on Knoppix 7.0.
I would not necessarily expect to see an amended 6.7.1.

An external wifi, compatible with your computer would be a possible interim solution.
I use that approach to get some of the other distributions going.
04-19-2012, 08:42 PM
utu

@ luther

At your convenience...

for your 6.4.3 LiveCD, I'd like to see:
ls /lib/modules/*/kernel/drivers/net/wireless

and for b43 or any b43... directory, for example
ls /lib/modules/*/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/b43legacy

also less /boot/config*|grep -i b43

and less /boot/config*|grep -i wl

I would like to know if 6.4.3 somehow had both b43 AND wl
built into its kernel. I'm pretty sure this NOT the case
for 6.7.1 and 6.4.4. It will make it a lot easier if we
can build BOTH into the kernel and just activate only the
right one. I'm not sure that's possible, but perhaps 6.4.3
will tell us it is.
04-20-2012, 02:33 AM
luther

6.4.3 LiveUSB

Quote:

Originally Posted by utu

for your 6.4.3 LiveCD, I'd like to see:
ls /lib/modules/*/kernel/drivers/net/wireless

Code:

root@Microknoppix:/home/knoppix# sudo ls /lib/modules/*/kernel/drivers/net/wireless adm8211.ko atmel_cs.ko iwlwifi orinoco rtl818x airo.ko atmel_pci.ko iwmc3200wifi p54 wl12xx airo_cs.ko b43 libertas prism54 wl3501_cs.ko at76c50x-usb.ko b43legacy libertas_tf ray_cs.ko zd1201.ko ath hostap mac80211_hwsim.ko rndis_wlan.ko zd1211rw atmel.ko ipw2x00 mwl8k.ko rt2x00 root@Microknoppix:/home/knoppix#

Dear utu:
Is this OK, so I can step-and-repeat the others?
luther
04-20-2012, 03:40 AM
luther

'cont.

Code:

root@Microknoppix:/home/knoppix# sudo ls /lib/modules/*/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/b43legacy b43legacy.ko root@Microknoppix:/home/knoppix#

Code:

root@Microknoppix:/home/knoppix# sudo less /boot/config* |grep -i b43 CONFIG_B43=m CONFIG_B43_PCI_AUTOSELECT=y CONFIG_B43_PCICORE_AUTOSELECT=y CONFIG_B43_PCMCIA=y CONFIG_B43_SDIO=y CONFIG_B43_PIO=y CONFIG_B43_PHY_LP=y CONFIG_B43_LEDS=y CONFIG_B43_HWRNG=y # CONFIG_B43_DEBUG is not set CONFIG_B43LEGACY=m CONFIG_B43LEGACY_PCI_AUTOSELECT=y CONFIG_B43LEGACY_PCICORE_AUTOSELECT=y CONFIG_B43LEGACY_LEDS=y CONFIG_B43LEGACY_HWRNG=y CONFIG_B43LEGACY_DEBUG=y CONFIG_B43LEGACY_DMA=y CONFIG_B43LEGACY_PIO=y CONFIG_B43LEGACY_DMA_AND_PIO_MODE=y # CONFIG_B43LEGACY_DMA_MODE is not set # CONFIG_B43LEGACY_PIO_MODE is not set CONFIG_SSB_B43_PCI_BRIDGE=y root@Microknoppix:/home/knoppix#

Code:

root@Microknoppix:/home/knoppix# sudo less /boot/config* |grep -i wl CONFIG_IP_VS_WLC=m CONFIG_MTD_UBI_WL_THRESHOLD=4096 CONFIG_SCSI_LOWLEVEL=y CONFIG_SCSI_LOWLEVEL_PCMCIA=y CONFIG_WLAN=y CONFIG_PCMCIA_WL3501=m CONFIG_USB_NET_RNDIS_WLAN=m CONFIG_MWL8K=m CONFIG_IWLWIFI=m # CONFIG_IWLWIFI_DEBUG is not set CONFIG_IWLAGN=m CONFIG_IWL4965=y CONFIG_IWL5000=y CONFIG_IWL3945=m CONFIG_WL12XX=m CONFIG_WL1251=m CONFIG_WL1251_SDIO=m CONFIG_WL1271=m CONFIG_WL1271_SDIO=m CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_KEYSPAN_USA49WLC=y CONFIG_UWB_WLP=m CONFIG_UWB_I1480U_WLP=m CONFIG_WLAGS49_H2=m CONFIG_WLAGS49_H25=m root@Microknoppix:/home/knoppix#
04-20-2012, 04:21 AM
luther

External WiFi compatible w/6.7.1

Quote:

Originally Posted by utu

An external wifi, compatible with your computer would be a possible interim solution.
I use that approach to get some of the other distributions going.

Dear utu:

I need more details of your external wifi setup? I'm picturing something like the
digital camera connected via USB cable to the micro's I/O. Knoppix 6.7.1 DVD
would be the only reason to approach your suggestion. Therefore, finding an
external wifi that matches 6.7.1 package would be my concern. Any suggestions?
I/O on the hp dv8000 notebook is USB 2.0
luther
04-20-2012, 04:25 AM
utu

@ luther

Almost.
I specifically want to see sudo ls /lib/modules/*/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/b43.
I'm pretty sure b43 is a directory with something in it.

And thanks.
04-20-2012, 06:59 AM
luther

#5

Quote:

Originally Posted by utu

@ luther

Almost.
I specifically want to see sudo ls /lib/modules/*/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/b43.
I'm pretty sure b43 is a directory with something in it.

And thanks.

Code:

root@Microknoppix:/home/knoppix# sudo ls /lib/modules/*/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/b43 b43.ko root@Microknoppix:/home/knoppix#
04-20-2012, 03:04 PM
luther

WiFi Work-Around for those w/B43 Requirement

Quote:

Originally Posted by utu

@ luther

I expect Klaus2008 may be able to show you how, but
building and installing b43 from scratch is probably a more difficult exercise than you want to undertake.

If or when Klaus K tackles this problem, I would expect to see the result around mid-year in an update on Knoppix 7.0.
I would not necessarily expect to see an amended 6.7.1.

An external wifi, compatible with your computer would be a possible interim solution.
I use that approach to get some of the other distributions going.

Knoppx Forum Members,

I agree with utu, that an interim solution be possible. This is NOT something I have
tried, but would this be a valid candidate:

http://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-Wireles...3593945&sr=8-4

Reply requested, please . . .
:confused:
04-20-2012, 03:48 PM
utu

Quote:

Originally Posted by luther

I need more details of your external wifi setup

I use a Netgear wg111v2 to work with Ubuntu & clones. See, for example:
http://support.netgear.com/app/products/model/a_id/2557

I bought mine from Surplus a few years back for $10 or $15.
This gets around my Broadcom nightmare with Ubuntu clones.
It might help for Knoppix. I can't say, since I never needed it for that.
04-20-2012, 04:03 PM
utu

@ luther, in re your Post #21 about an 'N' dongle:

This is a neat-looking little gadget at the right price, but it may not serve for two reasons:
1. Many routers work with a & g but not N; N is fairly new.
edit: I see it is n/g/b, so that's probably not a problem; g is ok.
2. There's always a chance it needs a driver no linuxer has come up with.
Does this sound familiar?

Your best interim solution so far is Knoppix 6.4.3, and that's not bad.
04-20-2012, 04:42 PM
utu

Addendum to my post #23, in re Sanoxy 'N' dongle.

One of the Amazon comments states that the unit works fine on linux
by installing a driver via ndiswrapper.
I think this may mean this device is a b43 candidate for fwcutter these days.
If so, that's the problem we're already wrestling with, not a solution.
04-20-2012, 05:43 PM
utu

Status summary on Broadcom wl vs b43 snag

.
Here's an interesting comparison, looking at Knopppix 6.4.4 relative to
luther's Posts #16 and #20 for Knoppix 6.4.3:

Code:

knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ ls /lib/modules/*/kernel/drivers/net/wireless adm8211.ko atmel_cs.ko iwmc3200wifi p54 wl.ko airo.ko atmel_pci.ko libertas prism54 wl1251 airo_cs.ko b43legacy libertas_tf ray_cs.ko wl12xx at76c50x-usb.ko hostap mac80211_hwsim.ko rndis_wlan.ko wl3501_cs.ko ath ipw2x00 mwl8k.ko rt2x00 zd1201.ko atmel.ko iwlwifi orinoco rtl818x zd1211rw

I think this means 6.4.4 has a kernel with wl built-in, lacking b43;
whereas 6.4.3 has a kernel with b43 built-in, lacking wl.

Hint:
wl.ko shows up in 6.4.4 which I use, and b43.ko shows up in luther's 6.4.3

So, I think this means we have to consider not only offering (at least)
two drivers, but two kernels-to-match as well, for Broadcom users.
Interestingly so, this actually occurred with Knoppix 6.4.3 and 6.4.4
taken together as one distribution. One size does not fit all here.
04-21-2012, 07:50 PM
luther

Beta test complete

Summary:

Further Broadcom support requested to Developer.

:D
04-21-2012, 08:03 PM
utu

We will be lucky if Klaus K doesn't ban Broadcom wifis altogther from future consideration,
as being a lot more trouble than its worth.

I know of no current linux distro that supports both b43 and wl; it's either one or the other.
The tangled list of which PCI-ID goes with which driver would make a nice hardware museum.
04-21-2012, 10:14 PM
luther

Keep Linux open

Quote:

Originally Posted by utu

We will be lucky if Klaus K doesn't ban Broadcom wifis altogther from future consideration,
as being a lot more trouble than its worth.

I know of no current linux distro that supports both b43 and wl; it's either one or the other.
The tangled list of which PCI-ID goes with which driver would make a nice hardware museum.

Dear utu:
What excites me about the IBM PC/Clones is the ability to OPEN the hood! Software has always lagged behind and needs to catch-up! Software "101" in the distro world should be wireless networking. I've got NO use for the burnt ISO's that fail this basic hurdle.

I found another keeper here:
http://lubuntu.net/blog/lubuntu-1104-released

Thanks for your prompt replies.
luther
04-22-2012, 03:10 PM
utu

Quote:

Originally Posted by utu

.
Here's an interesting comparison, looking at Knopppix 6.4.4 relative to
luther's Posts #16 and #20 for Knoppix 6.4.3:

Code:

knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ ls /lib/modules/*/kernel/drivers/net/wireless adm8211.ko atmel_cs.ko iwmc3200wifi p54 wl.ko airo.ko atmel_pci.ko libertas prism54 wl1251 airo_cs.ko b43legacy libertas_tf ray_cs.ko wl12xx at76c50x-usb.ko hostap mac80211_hwsim.ko rndis_wlan.ko wl3501_cs.ko ath ipw2x00 mwl8k.ko rt2x00 zd1201.ko atmel.ko iwlwifi orinoco rtl818x zd1211rw

I think this means 6.4.4 has a kernel with wl built-in, lacking b43;
whereas 6.4.3 has a kernel with b43 built-in, lacking wl.

Hint:
wl.ko shows up in 6.4.4 which I use, and b43.ko shows up in luther's 6.4.3

So, I think this means we have to consider not only offering (at least)
two drivers, but two kernels-to-match as well, for Broadcom users.
Interestingly so, this actually occurred with Knoppix 6.4.3 and 6.4.4
taken together as one distribution. One size does not fit all here.

In trying this on Klaus K, I think there's a better, more plausible explanation:
The kernel in 6.7.1 may not have been built to accept b43 modules,
whereas, it appears 6.4.3/6.4.4 if they contain the same kernel DO accept both wl & b43 modules.

If that's the case, 6.7.1 surely favors only wl at the expense of ALL potential b43 users.
This turns out to be easily remedied by making sure future kernels don't preclude using
all likely useful modules. It does NOT imply a proliferation of kernels.
04-22-2012, 03:21 PM
utu

Quote:

Originally Posted by utu

The kernel in 6.7.1 may not have been built to accept b43 modules

Klaus2008's post #7 is crucial here.
04-30-2012, 01:24 PM
luther

2 Attachment(s)

Broadcom Modules

Greetings!

If 7.0 + builds accept b43 modules, no Broadcom components should be
enabled, compared to 6.7.1 (30apc671). '30apcb43' is from Hotlink posted
earlier in thread.

*for reference only
04-30-2012, 03:21 PM
utu

@ luther
In your 7/0+ context, I needed to remove
/etc/modprobe.d/broadcom-sta-common.conf to allow b43 to be installed.

Adding modprob -a b43 to /etc/rc.local is an alternative.
06-06-2012, 11:18 PM
luther

* resolved finally *

Hi ALL!

7.02 LiveDVD installs b43 WIFI driver w/o ethernet hook-up, as did 6.71!

This was an essential 'fix' for the notebook crowd, thanks!

luther
* posted w/7.02 LiveUSB
06-07-2012, 12:40 AM
utu

Quote:

Originally Posted by luther

as did 6.71

6.4.3 worked for you, 6.7.1 didn't.
The challenge was to make it work for both the b43 & the wl crowds.